[quote]Funny how we all cry for change and then bitch when they do something totally different. How can you Think Different with out doing different? If Apple were like all the other companies their slogan would be "Fit in" or "Do the Same" or "follow the masses"
<hr></blockquote>
What we want is for Apple to do different things with technology and software. ADC is doing something different with a power cord.
I think Programmer is dead on, Apple likes LCDs because of their high margin. That makes the most sense of any explanation I've heard. And Apple needs high margins.
Yeah, I 'm sure Sony would be happy to sell to you. Buy why give the money to Sony when it should easily go right to Apple? </strong><hr></blockquote>
that's not the point,
the market for apple portable users that want to buy a 600 or 1000 or 2500 LCD in addition is extremely small. It's not a market apple has to worry about serving or "sacrifice" their design to compensate for.
you are the minority. they are not limiting your choices. the only thing they are limiting is your choices of apple products. crazy huh
the market for apple portable users that want to buy a 600 or 1000 or 2500 LCD in addition is extremely small. It's not a market apple has to worry about serving or "sacrifice" their design to compensate for.
you are the minority. they are not limiting your choices. the only thing they are limiting is your choices of apple products. crazy huh</strong><hr></blockquote>
I would challenge that assumption that the market is small. Bear in mind, that this applies not only to portables, but also the new iMac.
While the iMac is intended as an all in one unit, the current design would lend itself very well to adding another LCD display. I would venture to guess there will be a large number of users who may wish to add to the current 15" display.
No, Apple is certainly not limiting my choices, but you have to question why they would choose to lose an LCD sale over aesthetics.
I would challenge that assumption that the market is small. Bear in mind, that this applies not only to portables, but also the new iMac.
While the iMac is intended as an all in one unit, the current design would lend itself very well to adding another LCD display. I would venture to guess there will be a large number of users who may wish to add to the current 15" display.
No, Apple is certainly not limiting my choices, but you have to question why they would choose to lose an LCD sale over aesthetics.
Surely they can come up with a elegant. solution.</strong><hr></blockquote>
as tonton just pointed out, the only people really affected are powerbook users.
you say there is a market for the iMac. how? how many people want a mirror image on a 17 inch 1000 display of what is on the 15 inch display?
same with the iBook.
face it, the market is TINY, just the limited amount of powerbook users. and if they really want it the adapter is like $150
Yeah your all so right.. What do I know, I can't compete with all you Fortune 500 company owners, your all millioniares. You all know what's best for Apple. Company's are in business to make money, and if they can please their customers as well it's a bonus. However you can't live 100% for your customers or you'll go broke trying to please them.
Truth is Apple could care less about you, they don't owe you any thing. If you choose to buy then great if not oh well. Everybody wants something and the sad reality is that not every one gets what they want. Of course it sometimes seems you guys think Apple owes you free Macs.
Oh and for the guy that said we want Apple to make better technology, not a better power cord. It's the small things that add up, in the end. You have to start small, you don't reinvent the wheel by making another wheel. There has to be differances and the power cord is one of these.
People seem to forget it's not how fast the computer is, it's what you can do with it. You all keep asking for more power but 99% of you don't even need it. Most of the 99%'s are people that want bragging rigths over PC's. Say what you will but that's what it all boils down too. <img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[No]" />
[quote]Granted, mirror imaging is not the best (that's another beef) but let's don't under estimate the size of that Powerbook base. It's pretty large.<hr></blockquote>
the iMac was just your big reason for there being a huge market and now its nothing and you're back to the powerbook.
the market is small
[quote]
The answer is we don't know what the actual demand is. <hr></blockquote>
yea we do. the demand is a select few from a single product line that already has a built-in display and usually only buys an external CRT if they need an external monitor do to cost/size/ and color accuracy
[quote]When you develop a peripheral like a LCD, you want to make it available to the widest audience. <hr></blockquote>
1.) says who?
2.) Apple is making it to a wide audience. All tower buyers. the people who actually buy them
[quote]And to make that an option available in the next round of displays is simple and cheap. <hr></blockquote>
how is it simple and cheap? they have to add analog-> digital boards and also a powersupply. that's neither simple or cheap
And how do you know that? Do you have proof? Or is it that you're always correct.
Perhaps a simple poll of Powerbook owners may be a better indication than your gospel word.
How many Powerbook users would like to have the option of connecting their laptop to an Apple branded LCD.
Let's assume only 25,000 Powerbook owners were were to buy a LCD from Apple (and that's a very low number). If Apple averages a net return of $500 per unit, that would bring in 1.25 million. I'd say that would make it a worthwhile investment.
The point about the iMac is moot. While I still believe there is a market there, any LCD purchase from an iMac owner would be gravy.
[quote]And how do you know that? Do you have proof? Or is it that you're always correct.<hr></blockquote>
little of both
[quote]
Perhaps a simple poll of Powerbook owners may be a better indication than your gospel word. <hr></blockquote>
and that would be accurate how?
[quote]How many Powerbook users would like to have the option of connecting their laptop to an Apple branded LCD.<hr></blockquote>
there is a difference between liking the option and actually buying a display.
ie: yea, fine, give me the option. I'm not going to buy 1000 dollar display just to hook up to my powerbook though
[quote]
Let's assume only 25,000 Powerbook owners were were to buy a LCD from Apple (and that's a very low number). <hr></blockquote>
actually that is a very high number. extremely high in fact
1 in every 8 powerbook buyer is going to pay an additional 600, 1000, or 2500 on an external display?
[quote]If Apple averages a net return of $500 per unit, that would bring in 1.25 million. I'd say that would make it a worthwhile investment.<hr></blockquote>
too bad it would not be that high and is only revenue not profit.
[quote]
The point about the iMac is moot. While I still believe there is a market there, any LCD purchase from an iMac owner would be gravy. <hr></blockquote>
sorry but you would have to be an idiot to think there was a market on the imac. really. I think anyone who would actually pay that much just to get a mirrored image would not have any problem whatsoever paying 150 bucks for an adapter
I do think that there would be a larger market for Apple's LCD's if they had the option to do more than mirror the other display image.
It would be great to have the iMacs 15'' and an Apple 15'' LCD next to each other but with one or someday both at higher resolutions. Same for the iBook and TiBook.
I also wonder why Apple doesnt produce a cheap 12'' LCD display...I might buy one to replace my monster 15'' CRT. I wouldnt care about the size difference and a 12'' display would only cost $399.
1 in every 8 powerbook buyer is going to pay an additional 600, 1000, or 2500 on an external display? too bad it would not be that high and is only revenue not profit.
sorry but you would have to be an idiot to think there was a market on the imac. really. I think anyone who would actually pay that much just to get a mirrored image would not have any problem whatsoever paying 150 bucks for an adapter
Well there was a market. But Apple in it's infininte wisdom chose mirroring.
How many more LCD's they would sell if it's products were not crippled through mirroring?
The iMac and the iBook are mass consumer products...so what do they do? They fix it so users won't want to buy their expensive LCD's. Instead they target the smaller segment of pro users.
1 in every 8 powerbook buyer is going to pay an additional 600, 1000, or 2500 on an external display? too bad it would not be that high and is only revenue not profit.
sorry but you would have to be an idiot to think there was a market on the imac. really. I think anyone who would actually pay that much just to get a mirrored image would not have any problem whatsoever paying 150 bucks for an adapter
Well there was a market. But Apple in it's infininte wisdom chose mirroring.
How many more LCD's they would sell if it's products were not crippled through mirroring?
The iMac and the iBook are mass consumer products...so what do they do? They fix it so users won't want to buy their expensive LCD's. Instead they target the smaller segment of pro users.
If there's a strategy there, I can't see it.</strong><hr></blockquote>
If Apple just lowers prics by $300 per display then there is no big problem and adapters would be bundled...well, then I see no problem. But I dont think Apple will do that.
I think the issue will be resolved at MWNy or sooner because the displays (as good as they are) have not been updated for quite some time, until then forget about it. It isnt your problem and Apple made some $ last quarter of I remember correctly.
<strong> I think the issue will be resolved at MWNy or sooner because the displays (as good as they are) have not been updated for quite some time, until then forget about it. It isnt your problem and Apple made some $ last quarter of I remember correctly.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Perhaps MWNY, perhaps never.
I know Apple enough that they march to their own beat.
<strong>If but I'd love to see a DVI out port on all of Apple's computers. I understand that the displays are powered by the ADC, but why couldn't Apple make an adapter that separated the AC power (which would go to the wall socket), from the DVI, .</strong><hr></blockquote>
EEK. ADC is digital like DVI and therefore better than VGA and it is a one cord solution. A tower plugged into one of these puppies looks very elegant - very Apple. ADC is slick.
remember that the current display promotion runs till the end of march. this makes MWTY a good place to update them. i don't know what they would update; it's not toooooo obvious so i'll just wait and see.
or maybe apples' just ****ing with us and on march 31, they will extend the promotion through MWNY. I wouldn't put it past them
ONLY TIME WILL TELL. don't get so belligerant. CHILL PEOPLE <img src="graemlins/smokin.gif" border="0" alt="[Chilling]" />
[quote]probably more accurate than simply your assumption<hr></blockquote>
really? I don't know. something tells me that if the market was actually huge and would make such a difference that the only logical thing to do would be support powerbooks then Apple would support them.. but they don't. Apple whether you want to believe it or not does not just turn customers away when they want things. obviously the demand is so low that they really don't care.
that's better than any bias poll you're gonna come up with
[quote]15" LCD = $599<hr></blockquote>
and you want to buy a 600 dollar display with near equal screen real estate as the internal one?
[quote]How much does a 22" Cinema Display cost?
Average it out. Again, no proof of demand.<hr></blockquote>
average what out? cinema display costs 2499. you gave a specific number of units sold. not revenue. you don't average out units sold based on price <img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[No]" />
[quote]Well there was a market. But Apple in it's infininte wisdom chose mirroring.
How many more LCD's they would sell if it's products were not crippled through mirroring?<hr></blockquote>
uh... not many?
an iMac has VGA out for the sole reason of the education market. same with iBook. they are there for presentations. For 95 percent of the iBook/iMac buying population the purchase is a big expensive purchase. there are not people out there who are looking to have a dual LCD setup. the LCDs alone would cost more than the computer <img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[No]" />
Comments
<hr></blockquote>
What we want is for Apple to do different things with technology and software. ADC is doing something different with a power cord.
I think Programmer is dead on, Apple likes LCDs because of their high margin. That makes the most sense of any explanation I've heard. And Apple needs high margins.
<strong>
If it bothers you then buy a nice Sony 18.1 they will be happy to sell to you.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
Uh...hello? That's the point.
Yeah, I 'm sure Sony would be happy to sell to you. Buy why give the money to Sony when it should easily go right to Apple?
<strong>
Uh...hello? That's the point.
Yeah, I 'm sure Sony would be happy to sell to you. Buy why give the money to Sony when it should easily go right to Apple?
that's not the point,
the market for apple portable users that want to buy a 600 or 1000 or 2500 LCD in addition is extremely small. It's not a market apple has to worry about serving or "sacrifice" their design to compensate for.
you are the minority. they are not limiting your choices. the only thing they are limiting is your choices of apple products. crazy huh
<a href="http://www.gefen.com/products/extendit/new_kvm_usb_extenders_switches/vga_to_adc/"; target="_blank">http://www.gefen.com/products/extendit/new_kvm_usb_extenders_switches/vga_to_adc/</a>;
<strong>
that's not the point,
the market for apple portable users that want to buy a 600 or 1000 or 2500 LCD in addition is extremely small. It's not a market apple has to worry about serving or "sacrifice" their design to compensate for.
you are the minority. they are not limiting your choices. the only thing they are limiting is your choices of apple products. crazy huh</strong><hr></blockquote>
I would challenge that assumption that the market is small. Bear in mind, that this applies not only to portables, but also the new iMac.
While the iMac is intended as an all in one unit, the current design would lend itself very well to adding another LCD display. I would venture to guess there will be a large number of users who may wish to add to the current 15" display.
No, Apple is certainly not limiting my choices, but you have to question why they would choose to lose an LCD sale over aesthetics.
Surely they can come up with a elegant. solution.
<strong>
I would challenge that assumption that the market is small. Bear in mind, that this applies not only to portables, but also the new iMac.
While the iMac is intended as an all in one unit, the current design would lend itself very well to adding another LCD display. I would venture to guess there will be a large number of users who may wish to add to the current 15" display.
No, Apple is certainly not limiting my choices, but you have to question why they would choose to lose an LCD sale over aesthetics.
Surely they can come up with a elegant. solution.</strong><hr></blockquote>
as tonton just pointed out, the only people really affected are powerbook users.
you say there is a market for the iMac. how? how many people want a mirror image on a 17 inch 1000 display of what is on the 15 inch display?
same with the iBook.
face it, the market is TINY, just the limited amount of powerbook users. and if they really want it the adapter is like $150
Truth is Apple could care less about you, they don't owe you any thing. If you choose to buy then great if not oh well. Everybody wants something and the sad reality is that not every one gets what they want. Of course it sometimes seems you guys think Apple owes you free Macs.
Oh and for the guy that said we want Apple to make better technology, not a better power cord. It's the small things that add up, in the end. You have to start small, you don't reinvent the wheel by making another wheel. There has to be differances and the power cord is one of these.
People seem to forget it's not how fast the computer is, it's what you can do with it. You all keep asking for more power but 99% of you don't even need it. Most of the 99%'s are people that want bragging rigths over PC's. Say what you will but that's what it all boils down too. <img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[No]" />
Otherwise, why would companies invest in marketing stuff like this.....
<a href="http://shop.3dlabs.com/cgi-bin/3Dlabs.filereader?3c71341e0101fa682742d1ed2b82065d +EN/products/01&2D000057&2D001" target="_blank">3Dlabs</a>
[ 02-18-2002: Message edited by: ryukyu ]</p>
<strong>
as tonton just pointed out, the only people really affected are powerbook users.
you say there is a market for the iMac. how? how many people want a mirror image on a 17 inch 1000 display of what is on the 15 inch display?
same with the iBook.
face it, the market is TINY, just the limited amount of powerbook users. and if they really want it the adapter is like $150</strong><hr></blockquote>
Granted, mirror imaging is not the best (that's another beef) but let's don't under estimate the size of that Powerbook base. It's pretty large.
The answer is we don't know what the actual demand is.
When you develop a peripheral like a LCD, you want to make it available to the widest audience.
And to make that an option available in the next round of displays is simple and cheap.
the iMac was just your big reason for there being a huge market and now its nothing and you're back to the powerbook.
the market is small
[quote]
The answer is we don't know what the actual demand is. <hr></blockquote>
yea we do. the demand is a select few from a single product line that already has a built-in display and usually only buys an external CRT if they need an external monitor do to cost/size/ and color accuracy
[quote]When you develop a peripheral like a LCD, you want to make it available to the widest audience. <hr></blockquote>
1.) says who?
2.) Apple is making it to a wide audience. All tower buyers. the people who actually buy them
[quote]And to make that an option available in the next round of displays is simple and cheap. <hr></blockquote>
how is it simple and cheap? they have to add analog-> digital boards and also a powersupply. that's neither simple or cheap
<strong>
yea we do.</strong><hr></blockquote>
And how do you know that? Do you have proof? Or is it that you're always correct.
Perhaps a simple poll of Powerbook owners may be a better indication than your gospel word.
How many Powerbook users would like to have the option of connecting their laptop to an Apple branded LCD.
Let's assume only 25,000 Powerbook owners were were to buy a LCD from Apple (and that's a very low number). If Apple averages a net return of $500 per unit, that would bring in 1.25 million. I'd say that would make it a worthwhile investment.
The point about the iMac is moot. While I still believe there is a market there, any LCD purchase from an iMac owner would be gravy.
little of both
[quote]
Perhaps a simple poll of Powerbook owners may be a better indication than your gospel word. <hr></blockquote>
and that would be accurate how?
[quote]How many Powerbook users would like to have the option of connecting their laptop to an Apple branded LCD.<hr></blockquote>
there is a difference between liking the option and actually buying a display.
ie: yea, fine, give me the option. I'm not going to buy 1000 dollar display just to hook up to my powerbook though
[quote]
Let's assume only 25,000 Powerbook owners were were to buy a LCD from Apple (and that's a very low number). <hr></blockquote>
actually that is a very high number. extremely high in fact
1 in every 8 powerbook buyer is going to pay an additional 600, 1000, or 2500 on an external display?
[quote]If Apple averages a net return of $500 per unit, that would bring in 1.25 million. I'd say that would make it a worthwhile investment.<hr></blockquote>
too bad it would not be that high and is only revenue not profit.
[quote]
The point about the iMac is moot. While I still believe there is a market there, any LCD purchase from an iMac owner would be gravy. <hr></blockquote>
sorry but you would have to be an idiot to think there was a market on the imac. really. I think anyone who would actually pay that much just to get a mirrored image would not have any problem whatsoever paying 150 bucks for an adapter
I do think that there would be a larger market for Apple's LCD's if they had the option to do more than mirror the other display image.
It would be great to have the iMacs 15'' and an Apple 15'' LCD next to each other but with one or someday both at higher resolutions. Same for the iBook and TiBook.
I also wonder why Apple doesnt produce a cheap 12'' LCD display...I might buy one to replace my monster 15'' CRT. I wouldnt care about the size difference and a 12'' display would only cost $399.
---------------------------------------------------------------
little of both
---------------------------------------------------------------
Convenient answer
quote:
---------------------------------------------------------------and that would be accurate how?
---------------------------------------------------------------probably more accurate than simply your assumption
quote:
---------------------------------------------------------------
ie: yea, fine, give me the option. I'm not going to buy 1000 dollar display just to hook up to my powerbook though
---------------------------------------------------------------
15" LCD = $599
quote:
---------------------------------------------------------------
1 in every 8 powerbook buyer is going to pay an additional 600, 1000, or 2500 on an external display? too bad it would not be that high and is only revenue not profit.
---------------------------------------------------------------
How much does a 22" Cinema Display cost?
Average it out. Again, no proof of demand.
quote:
---------------------------------------------------------------
sorry but you would have to be an idiot to think there was a market on the imac. really. I think anyone who would actually pay that much just to get a mirrored image would not have any problem whatsoever paying 150 bucks for an adapter
---------------------------------------------------------------
Well there was a market. But Apple in it's infininte wisdom chose mirroring.
How many more LCD's they would sell if it's products were not crippled through mirroring?
The iMac and the iBook are mass consumer products...so what do they do? They fix it so users won't want to buy their expensive LCD's. Instead they target the smaller segment of pro users.
If there's a strategy there, I can't see it.
<strong>quote:
---------------------------------------------------------------
little of both
---------------------------------------------------------------
Convenient answer
quote:
---------------------------------------------------------------and that would be accurate how?
---------------------------------------------------------------probably more accurate than simply your assumption
quote:
---------------------------------------------------------------
ie: yea, fine, give me the option. I'm not going to buy 1000 dollar display just to hook up to my powerbook though
---------------------------------------------------------------
15" LCD = $599
quote:
---------------------------------------------------------------
1 in every 8 powerbook buyer is going to pay an additional 600, 1000, or 2500 on an external display? too bad it would not be that high and is only revenue not profit.
---------------------------------------------------------------
How much does a 22" Cinema Display cost?
Average it out. Again, no proof of demand.
quote:
---------------------------------------------------------------
sorry but you would have to be an idiot to think there was a market on the imac. really. I think anyone who would actually pay that much just to get a mirrored image would not have any problem whatsoever paying 150 bucks for an adapter
---------------------------------------------------------------
Well there was a market. But Apple in it's infininte wisdom chose mirroring.
How many more LCD's they would sell if it's products were not crippled through mirroring?
The iMac and the iBook are mass consumer products...so what do they do? They fix it so users won't want to buy their expensive LCD's. Instead they target the smaller segment of pro users.
If there's a strategy there, I can't see it.</strong><hr></blockquote>
If Apple just lowers prics by $300 per display then there is no big problem and adapters would be bundled...well, then I see no problem. But I dont think Apple will do that.
I think the issue will be resolved at MWNy or sooner because the displays (as good as they are) have not been updated for quite some time, until then forget about it. It isnt your problem and Apple made some $ last quarter of I remember correctly.
<strong> I think the issue will be resolved at MWNy or sooner because the displays (as good as they are) have not been updated for quite some time, until then forget about it. It isnt your problem and Apple made some $ last quarter of I remember correctly.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Perhaps MWNY, perhaps never.
I know Apple enough that they march to their own beat.
So, I'm not losing sleep over it.
It's always fun to second guess Apple.
<strong>If but I'd love to see a DVI out port on all of Apple's computers. I understand that the displays are powered by the ADC, but why couldn't Apple make an adapter that separated the AC power (which would go to the wall socket), from the DVI, .</strong><hr></blockquote>
EEK. ADC is digital like DVI and therefore better than VGA and it is a one cord solution. A tower plugged into one of these puppies looks very elegant - very Apple. ADC is slick.
or maybe apples' just ****ing with us and on march 31, they will extend the promotion through MWNY. I wouldn't put it past them
ONLY TIME WILL TELL. don't get so belligerant. CHILL PEOPLE <img src="graemlins/smokin.gif" border="0" alt="[Chilling]" />
[quote]Convenient answer<hr></blockquote>
I liked it
[quote]probably more accurate than simply your assumption<hr></blockquote>
really? I don't know. something tells me that if the market was actually huge and would make such a difference that the only logical thing to do would be support powerbooks then Apple would support them.. but they don't. Apple whether you want to believe it or not does not just turn customers away when they want things. obviously the demand is so low that they really don't care.
that's better than any bias poll you're gonna come up with
[quote]15" LCD = $599<hr></blockquote>
and you want to buy a 600 dollar display with near equal screen real estate as the internal one?
[quote]How much does a 22" Cinema Display cost?
Average it out. Again, no proof of demand.<hr></blockquote>
average what out? cinema display costs 2499. you gave a specific number of units sold. not revenue. you don't average out units sold based on price <img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[No]" />
[quote]Well there was a market. But Apple in it's infininte wisdom chose mirroring.
How many more LCD's they would sell if it's products were not crippled through mirroring?<hr></blockquote>
uh... not many?
an iMac has VGA out for the sole reason of the education market. same with iBook. they are there for presentations. For 95 percent of the iBook/iMac buying population the purchase is a big expensive purchase. there are not people out there who are looking to have a dual LCD setup. the LCDs alone would cost more than the computer <img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[No]" />