Chinese counterfeiting extends to full-blown fake Apple retail stores

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Comments

  • Reply 61 of 89
    sdw2001sdw2001 Posts: 18,012member
    "No big deal - its an Apple reseller.

    There are tons of them."





    ----Uh...right.
  • Reply 62 of 89
    djmikeodjmikeo Posts: 180member
    Microsoft should be offended!! The nerve of someone copying Microsoft's copying Apple. Not to mention that these stores actually have customers in them.
  • Reply 63 of 89
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post


    "No big deal - its an Apple reseller.

    There are tons of them."





    ----Uh...right.



    Uh yeah.



    I live in China, do you?



    I also read and write Chinese, and can do the cursory check to see how many stores in Kunming, on ooh, the Apple website.



    http://www.apple.com.cn/reseller/loc...26118;明



    Lets see - 13 resellers in Kunming alone (and we're talking a 3rd tier city at best here).





    Fail.

    The whole article is so full of fail to be honest.

    Its an Apple reseller.



    So they copied the look and feel - big whoop whoop.

    They're still selling Apple product.
  • Reply 64 of 89
    ROFLMAO. Brilliant. This is win, pure win! I am speechless beyond that.
  • Reply 65 of 89
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Messiah View Post


    Unbelievable.



    and apple is worried about google's android.....tsk, tsk.

    [ooops, my bad. they should be worried. maybe they sell these products at this store]



    http://www.gizchina.com/2010/07/30/q...ple-added-tax/





    http://www.qingting.biz/index.php?ac...ntype=1&pdid=3
  • Reply 66 of 89
    ameldrum1ameldrum1 Posts: 255member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by shanghailoz View Post


    Uh yeah.



    I live in China, do you?



    I also read and write Chinese, and can do the cursory check to see how many stores in Kunming, on ooh, the Apple website.



    http://www.apple.com.cn/reseller/loc...26118;明



    Lets see - 13 resellers in Kunming alone (and we're talking a 3rd tier city at best here).





    Fail.

    The whole article is so full of fail to be honest.

    Its an Apple reseller.



    So they copied the look and feel - big whoop whoop.

    They're still selling Apple product.



    So rare to see someone on this who is reasonable and actually knows what they are talking about...



    This looks no different than any number of Apple resellers here in Australia who in recent years have upgraded their retail look and feel to emulate the successful Apple store layout.
  • Reply 67 of 89
    I see nothing wrong with this shop at all. Apple has told its independent resellers and warranty service locations that must make all employees wear T shirts for the store they work for.They must conform to rules of look and feel just like the Apple stores. Unless the Computers they sell are counterfeit this all conforms to Apples guidelines of store front shops.
  • Reply 68 of 89
    addaboxaddabox Posts: 12,665member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by shanghailoz View Post


    Uh yeah.



    I live in China, do you?



    I also read and write Chinese, and can do the cursory check to see how many stores in Kunming, on ooh, the Apple website.



    http://www.apple.com.cn/reseller/loc...26118;明



    Lets see - 13 resellers in Kunming alone (and we're talking a 3rd tier city at best here).





    Fail.

    The whole article is so full of fail to be honest.

    Its an Apple reseller.



    So they copied the look and feel - big whoop whoop.

    They're still selling Apple product.



    Bullshit.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ameldrum1 View Post


    So rare to see someone on this who is reasonable and actually knows what they are talking about...



    This looks no different than any number of Apple resellers here in Australia who in recent years have upgraded their retail look and feel to emulate the successful Apple store layout.



    Bullshit.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by sternapples53 View Post


    I see nothing wrong with this shop at all. Apple has told its independent resellers and warranty service locations that must make all employees wear T shirts for the store they work for.They must conform to rules of look and feel just like the Apple stores. Unless the Computers they sell are counterfeit this all conforms to Apples guidelines of store front shops.



    Bullshit.



    The idea that Apple is cool with, or even encourages or requires its resellers to emulate Apple's own stores to the point that that a customer might imagine that they're in an actual Apple Store is bullshit, and laughable bullshit at that.



    This is Apple we're talking about-- one of the most implacably controlling corporations on earth, willing to go to insane lengths to shape their customer's experience down to the smallest detail. And the idea is that they are fine with someone else doing a knock off of their stores, a knock off that Apple can't actually control, a knock off that might leave a customer with the impression that an Apple Store isn't exactly what Apple intended it to be?



    Bullshit, bullshit, bullshit. The Apple Stores are just as much a part of the product experience as the hardware and software that Apple sells, and Apple would be as accommodating to counterfeit Apple Stores as they are to counterfeit iPads. It's one thing to imagine that Apple might want its resellers to maintain certain standards of fit and finish, entirely another to blithely assert that this particular obvious clone is business as usual.
  • Reply 69 of 89
    esummersesummers Posts: 953member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Morky View Post


    I remember a similar story about a fake Nike factory built simultaneously with a real Nike factory. Same plans, same suppliers. They were producing REAL Nike shoes and selling them in easten Europe. I wonder if the goods in these stores are coming out the back door of Foxcon and other factories?



    NEC was copied down to its corporate head quarters. I think that still beats the Apple store clone. The Chevy Aveo is also copied (minus safety equipment).
  • Reply 70 of 89
    The reseller "conforms to Apples [sic] guidelines of store front shops".



    Never mind the guideline that says Apple stores must actually be owned and operated by Apple Inc. and not brazen impostors. Who cares about that as long as the employees wear authentic-looking simulated T-shirts?



    Concerned that fake computer from fake Stoer has fake OS that telegraphs your personal data to the people's hacker army? Apologize for defaming China.



    Why should NEC care that crooks faked NEC factories, R&D, licensing and products?



    Next Step for Counterfeiters: Faking the Whole Company



    Why should mothers care that vast fake enterprises manufactured fake baby formula, which blew up infants' heads until they died?



    What, me worry?
  • Reply 71 of 89
    @ameldrum1 - thanks!



    @addabox - Trolling are we?

    ---





    @yangshen - Never mind the guideline that says Apple stores must actually be owned and operated by Apple Inc. and not brazen impostors.

    -



    Different countries follow different requirements. In China we have both Apple Stores (relatively new), and Apple Resellers.



    For example another continent I live on sporadically doesn't even have Apple stores. Not 1. South Africa. There are tons of Apple Stores though (all resellers).



    Nor does Hong Kong either - and they sell a huge amount of Apple product.



    Hong Kong Apple stores all look like Apple Stores too. There is a certain amount of similarity to all of them, as they do have some basic guidelines.



    This Kunming store is listed on the Apple website.

    If it was fake, then why is it listed as a reseller?



    There are some photos on there of other resellers too. If you took a look at the photos you'd see that they all look exceedingly like "official stores".



    Thats quite normal here.



    The guidelines for each country are different. Just because you all assume your countries setup is the law globally, doesn't mean it is.



    In China Apple stores will typically look Apple Store like, as thats a good model for them to follow. They all wear Apple T-Shirts too. Given that this is pretty standard its probably a reseller guideline.



    I can go out and take some photos of some non-Apple run Apple Stores here and show you if you disbelieve. OR you can look on the Apple China website at the pretty photos they have of some of their reseller stores.



    Again, this article is basically FUD, as are most of the uninformed commenters.

    Sadly you don't want to take the time to fact check either.



    I too can make claims as to how I think it works, but unless you back them up with actual facts as I have done, its all supposition.



    The reseller page for Apple China is here



    http://www.apple.com.cn/reseller/index.php



    Kunming is 昆明 in Chinese. You can search for that in the Store search on that page.

    Or you can take a look at the reseller store photos.





    A list of Apple Resellers for each region is here - http://www.apple.com.cn/reseller/appleshop/list.php



    If you can't read Chinese, you can use Google Translate.

    The pictures are pretty self explanatory though.



    Lawrence.



    For those interested in what an official China Apple Store looks like, I have photos from the pre-opening in July last year.



    http://www.flickr.com/photos/sheedl/...7624323998275/
  • Reply 72 of 89
    Gary Allen, Editor of ifoAppleStore.com:



    "Apple does have authorized resellers in China, with strictly controls on their appearance and branding. But the photographed store is not listed among Apple's resellers in the country. ...



    "To be clear, none of the three stores pictured in the original blog posting are listed as being authorized Apple resellers on Apple?s Web site. The use of "Apple Store" is completely non-standard among authorized resellers, as is the T-shirts and lanyards, and the many interior design features."
  • Reply 73 of 89
    addaboxaddabox Posts: 12,665member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by shanghailoz View Post


    @ameldrum1 - thanks!



    @addabox - Trolling are we?

    ---





    @yangshen - Never mind the guideline that says Apple stores must actually be owned and operated by Apple Inc. and not brazen impostors.

    -



    Different countries follow different requirements. In China we have both Apple Stores (relatively new), and Apple Resellers.



    For example another continent I live on sporadically doesn't even have Apple stores. Not 1. South Africa. There are tons of Apple Stores though (all resellers).



    Nor does Hong Kong either - and they sell a huge amount of Apple product.



    Hong Kong Apple stores all look like Apple Stores too. There is a certain amount of similarity to all of them, as they do have some basic guidelines.



    This Kunming store is listed on the Apple website.

    If it was fake, then why is it listed as a reseller?



    There are some photos on there of other resellers too. If you took a look at the photos you'd see that they all look exceedingly like "official stores".



    Thats quite normal here.



    The guidelines for each country are different. Just because you all assume your countries setup is the law globally, doesn't mean it is.



    In China Apple stores will typically look Apple Store like, as thats a good model for them to follow. They all wear Apple T-Shirts too. Given that this is pretty standard its probably a reseller guideline.



    I can go out and take some photos of some non-Apple run Apple Stores here and show you if you disbelieve. OR you can look on the Apple China website at the pretty photos they have of some of their reseller stores.



    Again, this article is basically FUD, as are most of the uninformed commenters.

    Sadly you don't want to take the time to fact check either.



    I too can make claims as to how I think it works, but unless you back them up with actual facts as I have done, its all supposition.



    The reseller page for Apple China is here



    http://www.apple.com.cn/reseller/index.php



    Kunming is 昆明 in Chinese. You can search for that in the Store search on that page.

    Or you can take a look at the reseller store photos.





    A list of Apple Resellers for each region is here - http://www.apple.com.cn/reseller/appleshop/list.php



    If you can't read Chinese, you can use Google Translate.

    The pictures are pretty self explanatory though.



    Lawrence.



    For those interested in what an official China Apple Store looks like, I have photos from the pre-opening in July last year.



    http://www.flickr.com/photos/sheedl/...7624323998275/



    So you're continuing to miss the point at length. We're not talking about the legitimacy of resellers. We're not talking about stores that have a vaguely Apple-ish vibe. We're talking about (in the case of this particular thread) a store that appears to ape an Apple store down to the smallest detail. A store that is clearly attempting to leave customers with the impression that they are shopping in an actual Apple Store, run by Apple.



    As I've pointed out, there is zero chance that Apple Inc. is authorizing their resellers to clone their stores, for the same reason they don't authorize third party manufactures to clone their hardware: it would mean allowing someone else to dictate the quality of the Apple experience, outside of Apple's control. Never going to happen.



    A bunch of hand waving about how every region has its own standards and way of doing things doesn't address that. Pictures from a web site of stores that are in some ways similar to but in no way duplicates of an Apple Store doesn't change that. Being determined to confuse "some standards of design" with "deliberately misleading copies" doesn't' change that.



    I have no idea what "facts" you think you are bringing to bear, or why you think the article is "FUD." To what end? To denigrate the very idea of Apple resellers in China? Why?



    What you're arguing is the direct equivalent to claiming that Chinese manufacturers have a perfectly legitimate right to make iPad clones and sell them under the iPad name as long as they meet Apple's levels of quality, and that this is simply how things are done in a region like China as a customary matter of business. More bizarrely, you seem to be under the impression that this is also how Apple does business. You're wrong.
  • Reply 74 of 89
    addaboxaddabox Posts: 12,665member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Yang Shen View Post


    Gary Allen, Editor of ifoAppleStore.com:



    "Apple does have authorized resellers in China, with strictly controls on their appearance and branding. But the photographed store is not listed among Apple's resellers in the country. ...



    "To be clear, none of the three stores pictured in the original blog posting are listed as being authorized Apple resellers on Apple?s Web site. The use of "Apple Store" is completely non-standard among authorized resellers, as is the T-shirts and lanyards, and the many interior design features."



    And there you have it. End of story.
  • Reply 75 of 89
    addaboxaddabox Posts: 12,665member
    And another story making the distinction between Apple authorized "Apple Shops" and the design guidelines for those and the unauthorized clone under discussion.



    Interestingly, an employee of the clone store contacted for the article seemed to have a similar attitude as shanhailoz:



    Quote:

    BirdAbroad said in a post Wednesday that store staff she spoke to appeared to believe they were employees of Apple. The staffer reached by phone was under no such illusion. ?It doesn?t make much of a difference for us whether we?re authorized or not,? he said. ?I just care that what I sell every day are authentic Apple products, and that our customers don?t come back to me to complain about the quality of the products.?



    That basic level of cavalierness regarding intellectual property seems to be endemic to the Chinese market. Cloners and copycats seem to be genuinely puzzled why anyone would object, as long as they're making their best effort to maintain quality.
  • Reply 76 of 89
    dr millmossdr millmoss Posts: 5,403member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by addabox View Post


    That basic level of cavalierness regarding intellectual property seems to be endemic to the Chinese market. Cloners and copycats seem to be genuinely puzzled why anyone would object, as long as they're making their best effort to maintain quality.



    I would call this the take-away point. Copyrights, patents and trademarks have historically counted for little in China. A person who has been raised in the culture would probably not question this attitude, and if you lived there for any period of time, you'd probably grow accustomed to it, as it is all around you every day.



    That said, I think many of us who read this story found it to be more amusing than appalling. If imitation is indeed the sincerest form of flattery, then Apple has been praised beyond reason or imagining.
  • Reply 77 of 89
    addaboxaddabox Posts: 12,665member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss View Post


    I would call this the take-away point. Copyrights, patents and trademarks have historically counted for little in China. A person who has been raised in the culture would probably not question this attitude, and if you lived there for any period of time, you'd probably grow accustomed to it, as it is all around you every day.



    That said, I think many of us who read this story found it to be more amusing than appalling. If imitation is indeed the sincerest form of flattery, then Apple has been praised beyond reason or imagining.



    You're right about being more amusing than not-- I got a little side tracked by the poster claiming normative standards for this kind of thing, which together with the "I speak for the continent" officiousness irked me a bit.
  • Reply 78 of 89
    dr millmossdr millmoss Posts: 5,403member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by addabox View Post


    You're right about being more amusing than not-- I got a little side tracked by the poster claiming normative standards for this kind of thing, which together with the "I speak for the continent" officiousness irked me a bit.



    Sure, I get that. But in a manner of speaking, it is the normative standard -- in China. This attitude frustrates not just Apple, but intellectual property holders world-wide. Western corporations must do business in China, but the basic infrastructure for protecting their property essentially doesn't exist, and the government apparently lacks either the will or the means to create it.



    The bright side, for Apple at least: this kind of aggressive imitation of Apple's entire marketing approach lends credence to the notion that upwardly mobile Chinese aspire to owning Apple products. Even if Apple can never exert the kind of control in China that they have in other markets, the macro story is still very positive for the company. To misquote Oscar Wilde, the only thing worse than being imitated is not being imitated.
  • Reply 79 of 89
    addaboxaddabox Posts: 12,665member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss View Post


    Sure, I get that. But in a manner of speaking, it is the normative standard -- in China. This attitude frustrates not just Apple, but intellectual property holders world-wide. Western corporations must do business in China, but the basic infrastructure for protecting their property essentially doesn't exist, and the government apparently lacks either the will or the means to create it.



    The bright side, for Apple at least: this kind of aggressive imitation of Apple's entire marketing approach lends credence to the notion that upwardly mobile Chinese aspire to owning Apple products. Even if Apple can never exert the kind of control in China that they have in other markets, the macro story is still very positive for the company. To misquote Oscar Wilde, the only thing worse than being imitated is not being imitated.



    Right, I get that. However, there's a difference between behaving a certain way and attempting to make the case for that behavior outside of "that's how we roll, hereabouts." The poster was commingling indifference to IP with assertions of standards and customary business practices all tied up with a "I am making my case with facts!" bow. Hence, tetchy.
  • Reply 80 of 89
    capoeira4ucapoeira4u Posts: 160member
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