New MacBook Airs, Mac minis feature Lion Internet Recovery disc-less repair

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  • Reply 41 of 63
    rkevwillrkevwill Posts: 224member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    I wonder if the same people that complain that Apple has dumbed down their system are the same people acting too dumb to create their own bootable installer.



    Not me. I have been thinking things are getting way too complicated!
  • Reply 42 of 63
    rkevwillrkevwill Posts: 224member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by fecklesstechguy View Post


    Create one on a thumb drive for yourself...



    I am wondering though, I seem to recall something about the copy protection they are using with the download, that *just* might cause a problem here. I will be interested to read the success people have doing this.
  • Reply 43 of 63
    rkevwillrkevwill Posts: 224member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by JackTheRat View Post


    I'm glad I've ripped all my CDs to iTunes as they're about 80% of my library.



    I'm not so sure I'd want an iMac or MBP without an optical drive.



    I was actually considering getting a newer mini, and their new 27 inch display. But if I have to use my external Macbook air optical drive, thats another USB port used, and something else on my desk. I kinda prefer a seperate computer and monitor, but a refurbed 27 inch IMac is starting to look attractive.
  • Reply 44 of 63
    charlitunacharlituna Posts: 7,188member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by dacloo View Post


    There's a difference to what you CAN do or what Apple provides as a standard. I don't like this at all. Call me traditional, but I want my OS on an USB sticky or DVD provided by Apple.

    Having an Internet connection is not something you can always rely on.



    Then wait for 2-4 weeks to get the ones they will have on the online store (and yes it is apparently only via online. not in the stores).



    Course you'll be paying twice as much but you want Apple to make the disc for you so . . .
  • Reply 45 of 63
    brucepbrucep Posts: 2,823member
    do4s this work on Mbp ??





    9
  • Reply 46 of 63
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


    Having an irrational fear of the Internet is scary.



    and having irrational trust of the Internet is also scary.



    Best to take the middle road...



  • Reply 47 of 63
    nasseraenasserae Posts: 3,152member
    If I am not mistaken many PC manufacturers started shipping their PCs with restore partition and no Restore/Windows DVDs years ago. I remember this because many of my friends deleted the partition while formatting the hard drive and they ended up paying for the restore DVDs. What Apple is doing with Lion is make the restore partition invisible, which is good.



    Now with internet restore you don't have to buy the restore media if your HDD dies.... genius!
  • Reply 48 of 63
    haggarhaggar Posts: 1,568member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by NasserAE View Post


    Now with internet restore you don't have to buy the restore media if your HDD dies.... genius!



    Does internet restore require you to sign in with an Apple account? When restore DVDs and flash drives were included in the box, no Apple account was required to use them. If you sell your Mac and want to restore the hard drive to factory condition, can you do it without having Apple account info saved on the hard drive?
  • Reply 49 of 63
    nasseraenasserae Posts: 3,152member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Haggar View Post


    Does internet restore require you to sign in with an Apple account? When restore DVDs and flash drives were included in the box, no Apple account was required to use them. If you sell your Mac and want to restore the hard drive to factory condition, can you do it without having Apple account info saved on the hard drive?



    From what I understand from Apple website is that you only need to use internet recovery if your HDD is replaced (new with no OS on it) and it doesn't seem that you need an Apple ID to do an internet restore. Apple servers will only check your Mac serial number for the proper restore.



    If you already have Lion installed you can start recovery holding Command-R. No need for Apple ID.
  • Reply 50 of 63
    haggarhaggar Posts: 1,568member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by NasserAE View Post


    From what I understand from Apple website is that you only need to use internet recovery if your HDD is replaced (new with no OS on it) and it doesn't seem that you need an Apple ID to do an internet restore. Apple servers will only check your Mac serial number for the proper restore.



    If you already have Lion installed you can start recovery holding Command-R. No need for Apple ID.



    Since every Mac includes iLIfe, will Command-R or internet recovery let you restore iLife and other bundled applications that are not part of the OS?
  • Reply 51 of 63
    nasseraenasserae Posts: 3,152member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Haggar View Post


    Since every Mac includes iLIfe, will Command-R or internet recovery let you restore iLife and other bundled applications that are not part of the OS?



    I have no idea. But if your Mac can pull OS X using your Mac serial number I don't see why it can't pull another ~1.3GB for iLife using the same method. We will have to wait until someone tries it though.
  • Reply 52 of 63
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by JackTheRat View Post


    I'm glad I've ripped all my CDs to iTunes as they're about 80% of my library.



    I'm not so sure I'd want an iMac or MBP without an optical drive.





    Same thing hear . All my CDSs are 98 percent of my iTunes library.
  • Reply 53 of 63
    MarvinMarvin Posts: 14,177moderator
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by fashionbug View Post


    Same thing hear . All my CDSs are 98 percent of my iTunes library.



    When Apple removed the optical from the Mini, the price dropped $100. You can buy a DVD burner for $30:



    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16827136179



    so you save $70. You can get a Blu-Ray drive for $180 so you basically get an upgrade to Blu-Ray for $80.



    On top of this, you don't have to worry about pushing an SD card into your DVD drive, nor it breaking during ownership, nor it scratching your discs up, nor it not accepting odd-sized discs. You may get a slimmer machine too.



    Pretty much everything about removing optical drives is a positive, though sometimes it's handy on a laptop. The main negative is when people confuse not having a bundled drive with never being able to use CD/DVD ever again.
  • Reply 54 of 63
    tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 43,399member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Marvin View Post


    Pretty much everything about removing optical drives is a positive, though sometimes it's handy on a laptop. The main negative is when people confuse not having a bundled drive with never being able to use CD/DVD ever again.



    Question: Can you plug a USB optical drive into a Time Capsule or AirPort Extreme and do the remote discing over the network like that, or does that require the ODD of a computer to be done?



    If the former, that's completely awesome and no one has any reason to complain. If the latter... the former needs to happen. If only to ease the transition.



    Have one ODD for the entire house, run it over the network. Wean people off discs like that.
  • Reply 55 of 63
    MarvinMarvin Posts: 14,177moderator
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


    Question: Can you plug a USB optical drive into a Time Capsule or AirPort Extreme and do the remote discing over the network like that, or does that require the ODD of a computer to be done?



    If the former, that's completely awesome and no one has any reason to complain. If the latter... the former needs to happen. If only to ease the transition.



    Have one ODD for the entire house, run it over the network. Wean people off discs like that.



    The optical drive will require drivers so I doubt this setup could work but it's not ideal either having to walk to the router to put a disc in.



    A Thunderbolt dock or USB drive are better solutions IMO.
  • Reply 56 of 63
    jfanningjfanning Posts: 3,380member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by spliff monkey View Post


    45GB data cap huh? Ugh. I thought ISP's in the states were bad. Still a restore shouldn't take up more than 10 percent of that unless you'd have to DL the apps too. Hopefully you aren't punitively charged for overages. It's kind strange feature anyway; obviously designed for users who don't know how to back up their data.



    If we go over the 45GB it is down to 64/32k, or NZ$30 to get another one time increase of 45GB. But we do use that connection for more things then just wanting on Apple to release something. We also have another 4GB to download X-Code, plus all the Steam games waiting to download...
  • Reply 57 of 63
    haggarhaggar Posts: 1,568member
    Does the built in recovery partition mean that anybody can just press Command-R and reset your password or erase your hard drive? How would one secure this on Macs used at work, for example?
  • Reply 58 of 63
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Haggar View Post


    Does the built in recovery partition mean that anybody can just press Command-R and reset your password or erase your hard drive? How would one secure this on Macs used at work, for example?



    1) Password reset has been removed.



    2) Setup firmware password.



    3) It's still a moot point as someone with access to your machine can do one of many other simple tasks to erase your drive without ever signing into your account.
  • Reply 59 of 63
    MarvinMarvin Posts: 14,177moderator
    There's a video of the Lion recovery here:



    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PPhoTUvdgac



    It seems it's not a partition itself but it boots from a dmg on the normal partition. If your filesystem gets hosed, you won't be able to boot from the dmg but in this scenario, internet recovery takes over automatically.



    It seems that you can erase your drive even with this setup - maybe it copies itself into RAM and then puts it back on the drive.



    The good thing about the download idea for reinstalling is that they'll give you the latest version of Lion so you don't revert back to 10.7 every time. This can be good and bad though because an incremental update might break something and then you have no real way of downgrading.



    It also means 2 hour reinstall times (depending on broadband) vs 20 minutes from an image on an external drive. Probably rare though and the USB drive coming in August isn't expensive.



    I would like to have a USB pen too but when a new OS comes out, it makes the drive almost obsolete. It also doesn't help when you resell a machine and you've misplaced the drive. This move means that no matter what machine you've bought from Apple, you will always be able to reinstall the OS from now on.



    I wonder if it will recover the latest one for free too. So if 10.8 comes out and your MBA drive fails, will it install 10.7 or 10.8 from the internet? Might be a sneaky way to avoid the upgrade cost.
  • Reply 60 of 63
    Unfortunately across the globe high speed internet isn't always as reliable as everyone is making out, plus there are a lot of ISPs that impose download limits and bandwidth caps. It also seems unnecessary for the restore to happen over the internet. I can understand the shift away from CDs/DVDs but I think there should probably be more education/hand-holding of creating a back-up on external media. I certainly wouldn't like to assume that an average user is stupid because they don't inherently wake up with the knowledge of creating a bootable disk image
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