<strong>An S.U.V. with an in-line 4 cylinder and 160 horses? You've got to be kidding me. My wife's '02 Hyundai Sonnata has more balls than that riced-out ice cream truck.
Thanks, I'll pass. if I want a sport utility I'll stick with a Jeep or a 4-Runner. At least they'll get me over the mountain.</strong><hr></blockquote>
horse power really has little to do with it. i had a 4 banger 89 isuzu trooper that had no problems with whatever you could throw at it. mountain passes, mud flats, boat hauling, pulling cars out of ditches, whatever. it's all in the gear ratios. granted it was a real dog on the highway but i miss that boxy old bitch. may she rest in peace.
Screw you people who say the Element or Aztek is ugly. Bashing cars simply because you don't like the style? Guess what? I think mustangs (ALL mustangs) are BUTT ugly and if you tell me what you drive I'll insult it also. I happen to like BOTH the Element and the Aztek. Lay off!
<strong> I'm split between the Element, the Jetta (possibly the Jetta Wagon) and the Mini Cooper. I would like the comfort of the Jetta or the Mini, but am intrigued by the space of the Honda.
I'd highly advice you against the current Jettas or Gulfs models. From a technical quality standpoint, they really went south with the new models. If you really want a German car, get the Cooper. Personally, I?m done with German cars. (I have a '94 Gulf GTI). I'm eyeing a Honda for my next purchase, probably a sporty Civic.
And it's not weird looking in the sort of way that makes you wish you had bought it back when it was available... not like the Key Lime iBook, those are cool and even though people made fun of them, now I bet a lot of those same people with they had them.
<strong>ok, i think that the aztek is the ugliest car on the road, but the element is most assuredly giving it a run for its money.
It is frickin butt stinking ugly!!!
get a Chevy Tahoe, as long as they haven't made the headlights those ridiculous avalanche style.</strong><hr></blockquote>
ok, i agree with both those picks for ugliness, but a tahoe?? give me a break...
americans have been passed up in the SUV market by just about every foreign auto company there is. it's embarassing because americans are the only ones that use these things, and yet we cant even make a good one. the japanese dont have any use for SUVs and yet the Honda Pilot is rated as the number one midsized SUV in the world. and the CRV is highest rated small-sized. The VW touraug (sp?) has taken over as number one in the higher end ratings. in all major competitions no american SUVs are even in the RUNNING, let alone make it as the best. no, if you're going for a good, quality SUV with AWD, the Pilot is a no brainer. my parents just got one (and i hate SUVs with a passion), and they love it--even i enjoy driving it on occassion...
we replaced the ford explorer (what a piece of crap that was), and will never buy a ford, or any other american POS, again.
american auto companies should be ashamed of what they put out on the roads...
American SUV's were crap because lax regulations let the big three get away with selling crap. As for American cars, they're not all crap, just a different philosophy from Japan inc, most of which are equally boring (if more efficient). American cars are cheaper to service and repair though.
<strong>American cars are cheaper to service and repair though.</strong><hr></blockquote>
haha, i love this point. they better be cheaper! cause they need it much more often. our american cars are consitently being worked on, while our SIX hondas have had next to no shop work in the time we've had them...ranging back to 1989. they might be about 10% more expensive to fix, but that matters not if they never break...
I'd highly advice you against the current Jettas or Gulfs models. From a technical quality standpoint, they really went south with the new models. If you really want a German car, get the Cooper. Personally, I?m done with German cars. (I have a '94 Gulf GTI). I'm eyeing a Honda for my next purchase, probably a sporty Civic.</strong><hr></blockquote>
i love my 2001 jetta vr6. haven't had a problem one with it. knocking on formica. that lil car will scoot. only thing i regret is not getting the leather package. cat hair is a bitch to clean up.
Not so fast. American cars have come a long way. I've got an almost 9 year old buick with 150000Km that has never needed anything but regular maintainance. If you make a list of commonly serviced parts -- brake components, rads, alternators, rotors, etc etc... you find that japanese parts often cost 50-100% more, at least here in southern Ontario, and probably anywhere around the great lakes. In California, parts are probably much cheaper. The crappy Canadian dollar might be coming into play too, iDunno, but where I live it's a significant difference. Having also owned a Honda and Nissan, I can say that their reliability was/is not better than the Buick, though both were a little older (90 and 91).
<strong>Not so fast. American cars have come a long way. I've got an almost 9 year old buick with 150000Km that has never needed anything but regular maintainance. If you make a list of commonly serviced parts -- brake components, rads, alternators, rotors, etc etc... you find that japanese parts often cost 50-100% more, at least here in southern Ontario, and probably anywhere around the great lakes. In California, parts are probably much cheaper. The crappy Canadian dollar might be coming into play too, iDunno, but where I live it's a significant difference. Having also owned a Honda and Nissan, I can say that their reliability was/is not better than the Buick, though both were a little older (90 and 91).</strong><hr></blockquote>
i guess it's about personal experience...but since we've had 6 hondas ranging in models from a 1989 civic to a 2000 S2000 to a 2003 Pilot, i feel we have a pretty good basis for comparison. we have very limited trouble with the cars. my car, a 96 Integra, has had a few clutch problems, but thats mostly because the previous owner drove it pretty hard. we have also have/had 2 fords, and i must say that fords are the worst automobiles on the planet, passing up even the hyundais. i dont know why...but they are such pieces of sh*t and so unreliable...i opted to take a road trip this spring break in our old 91 acura legend with 130+k miles, as opposed to our 96 explorer with under 90k because the acura is such a dependable vehicle and the ford is the worst, shoddiest engineering job i have ever come across. i dont feel comfortable crossing the country safely in it. as for the rest of the american companies...well, maybe they're better...but after going through this cr*p with ford, i won't ever give the american auto industry another chance.
Whoever said that the Element is "boxey" was RIGHT.
And that's why I like it. It looks like a mini H2, it has that EARTHMOVER industrial use look that I mentioned before.
But check THIS out:
I went by the dealership today and took a look at it. The salesman came out and had to move it up onto the display island but told me to hop in and come for a ride around back before he put it there.
I like the ride, it's standard Honda-style "competent". He said that it didn't feel like driving the Odyssey minivan, more like driving a Civic...just higher off the ground. That's how it felt to me too. It had that "tight" Honda feel. It's not a racecar. He said that he owned a Cobra and that he preferred a fast car, but that he was impressed with the features of the Element (what, a SALESMAN who is "impressed" with a car he has for sale? Who'd've thunk it?).
It feels van-like in the seats. You're up higher than you are in the Civic. I like the recumbent laid-back feel when I'm driving, not the sitting-in-a-chair feeling. I'm sure I could adjust though.
The way the seats swing up to the side is gimmicky and look to be potential vision-blockers. Not sure how I feel about that.
The B-pillar only occurs when front and back doors are closed. This could be a problem, I need to look at the NSTB crash results for the Element (and the others too).
He had to jump the battery because the overhead lights had been on all day because of people looking inside the car. He switched them off after he jumped the battery. That's one thing I want in my next car is a smart switch-off system. I hate coming back and finding that I've left my lights on.
The MINI has rain sensors built in, did you know that?
[quote]Originally posted by running with scissors:
<strong>
i love my 2001 jetta vr6. haven't had a problem one with it. knocking on formica. that lil car will scoot. only thing i regret is not getting the leather package. cat hair is a bitch to clean up.</strong><hr></blockquote>
The VR6 is a sweet engine. Wish I could afford it. Anything over 1800cc and the government here really takes you to the cleaners with their taxes/duty. As far as your car is concerned, that's normal. Problems will come on the 4th/5th year. If you're like me and must keep your car for 10-15 years, then you'll understand what I'm talking about.
<strong>drewprops, get the MINI Cooper. I've driven the regular and the 'S' and these cars are the best value out there, no exceptions. Buy one and you won't regret it.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Yes, its cool, but you cant compare it to the Element. A car is not a truck and a SUV is not a van and a bike is not a station wagon.
The Cooper doesn't scream "let's go camping" like the Element does. IMHO
<strong>Element, ugly. Mini, beeyootiful. Car and Driver has the Mini Cooper S soundly defeating every car except the top end Porsche 911 GT2 in its slalom tests.
<strong>An S.U.V. with an in-line 4 cylinder and 160 horses? You've got to be kidding me. My wife's '02 Hyundai Sonnata has more balls than that riced-out ice cream truck.
Thanks, I'll pass. if I want a sport utility I'll stick with a Jeep or a 4-Runner. At least they'll get me over the mountain.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I don't wanna climb mountains. See the word "KC" next to my name? I'm in Kansas City. Ain't no moutains here. I DO want to be able to drive over curbs, park on the grass at concerts and events, and go camping. The Element will get me there, I'm sure...
"Riced-Out"? Let's NOT go there.
"Balls"? I'm not looking for tons-o-power and thrust. As long as I get to point B without causing a war or drilling for oil in Alaska I'm happy. The Element ain't a Freakin' "good-ol' boy" Ford Ranger.
I get the feeling that you have a gun rack in the back of your truck, eh?
<strong>Screw you people who say the Element or Aztek is ugly. Bashing cars simply because you don't like the style? Guess what? I think mustangs (ALL mustangs) are BUTT ugly and if you tell me what you drive I'll insult it also. I happen to like BOTH the Element and the Aztek. Lay off!</strong><hr></blockquote>
Word.
Well, I think the Axtek is ugly. I dont like the Outback either. Too much like a car. But I respect your opinion.
Comments
<strong>An S.U.V. with an in-line 4 cylinder and 160 horses? You've got to be kidding me. My wife's '02 Hyundai Sonnata has more balls than that riced-out ice cream truck.
Thanks, I'll pass. if I want a sport utility I'll stick with a Jeep or a 4-Runner. At least they'll get me over the mountain.</strong><hr></blockquote>
horse power really has little to do with it. i had a 4 banger 89 isuzu trooper that had no problems with whatever you could throw at it. mountain passes, mud flats, boat hauling, pulling cars out of ditches, whatever. it's all in the gear ratios. granted it was a real dog on the highway but i miss that boxy old bitch. may she rest in peace.
<strong>
You sound like a car dealer...The Element = BOXEY
Destroy all SUVS, Jesus wouldn't drive one. So why should you!
no, i'm just a fan of all things honda. they can do no wrong. <img src="graemlins/cancer.gif" border="0" alt="[cancer]" />
<strong> I'm split between the Element, the Jetta (possibly the Jetta Wagon) and the Mini Cooper. I would like the comfort of the Jetta or the Mini, but am intrigued by the space of the Honda.
.
.
[ 03-04-2003: Message edited by: drewprops ]</strong><hr></blockquote>
I'd highly advice you against the current Jettas or Gulfs models. From a technical quality standpoint, they really went south with the new models. If you really want a German car, get the Cooper. Personally, I?m done with German cars. (I have a '94 Gulf GTI). I'm eyeing a Honda for my next purchase, probably a sporty Civic.
It is frickin butt stinking ugly!!!
get a Chevy Tahoe, as long as they haven't made the headlights those ridiculous avalanche style.
And it's not weird looking in the sort of way that makes you wish you had bought it back when it was available... not like the Key Lime iBook, those are cool and even though people made fun of them, now I bet a lot of those same people with they had them.
This, though? UGH!
<strong>ok, i think that the aztek is the ugliest car on the road, but the element is most assuredly giving it a run for its money.
It is frickin butt stinking ugly!!!
get a Chevy Tahoe, as long as they haven't made the headlights those ridiculous avalanche style.</strong><hr></blockquote>
ok, i agree with both those picks for ugliness, but a tahoe?? give me a break...
americans have been passed up in the SUV market by just about every foreign auto company there is. it's embarassing because americans are the only ones that use these things, and yet we cant even make a good one. the japanese dont have any use for SUVs and yet the Honda Pilot is rated as the number one midsized SUV in the world. and the CRV is highest rated small-sized. The VW touraug (sp?) has taken over as number one in the higher end ratings. in all major competitions no american SUVs are even in the RUNNING, let alone make it as the best. no, if you're going for a good, quality SUV with AWD, the Pilot is a no brainer. my parents just got one (and i hate SUVs with a passion), and they love it--even i enjoy driving it on occassion...
we replaced the ford explorer (what a piece of crap that was), and will never buy a ford, or any other american POS, again.
american auto companies should be ashamed of what they put out on the roads...
<strong>American cars are cheaper to service and repair though.</strong><hr></blockquote>
haha, i love this point. they better be cheaper! cause they need it much more often. our american cars are consitently being worked on, while our SIX hondas have had next to no shop work in the time we've had them...ranging back to 1989. they might be about 10% more expensive to fix, but that matters not if they never break...
<strong>
I'd highly advice you against the current Jettas or Gulfs models. From a technical quality standpoint, they really went south with the new models. If you really want a German car, get the Cooper. Personally, I?m done with German cars. (I have a '94 Gulf GTI). I'm eyeing a Honda for my next purchase, probably a sporty Civic.</strong><hr></blockquote>
i love my 2001 jetta vr6. haven't had a problem one with it. knocking on formica. that lil car will scoot. only thing i regret is not getting the leather package. cat hair is a bitch to clean up.
<strong>Not so fast. American cars have come a long way. I've got an almost 9 year old buick with 150000Km that has never needed anything but regular maintainance. If you make a list of commonly serviced parts -- brake components, rads, alternators, rotors, etc etc... you find that japanese parts often cost 50-100% more, at least here in southern Ontario, and probably anywhere around the great lakes. In California, parts are probably much cheaper. The crappy Canadian dollar might be coming into play too, iDunno, but where I live it's a significant difference. Having also owned a Honda and Nissan, I can say that their reliability was/is not better than the Buick, though both were a little older (90 and 91).</strong><hr></blockquote>
i guess it's about personal experience...but since we've had 6 hondas ranging in models from a 1989 civic to a 2000 S2000 to a 2003 Pilot, i feel we have a pretty good basis for comparison. we have very limited trouble with the cars. my car, a 96 Integra, has had a few clutch problems, but thats mostly because the previous owner drove it pretty hard. we have also have/had 2 fords, and i must say that fords are the worst automobiles on the planet, passing up even the hyundais. i dont know why...but they are such pieces of sh*t and so unreliable...i opted to take a road trip this spring break in our old 91 acura legend with 130+k miles, as opposed to our 96 explorer with under 90k because the acura is such a dependable vehicle and the ford is the worst, shoddiest engineering job i have ever come across. i dont feel comfortable crossing the country safely in it. as for the rest of the american companies...well, maybe they're better...but after going through this cr*p with ford, i won't ever give the american auto industry another chance.
And that's why I like it. It looks like a mini H2, it has that EARTHMOVER industrial use look that I mentioned before.
But check THIS out:
I went by the dealership today and took a look at it. The salesman came out and had to move it up onto the display island but told me to hop in and come for a ride around back before he put it there.
I like the ride, it's standard Honda-style "competent". He said that it didn't feel like driving the Odyssey minivan, more like driving a Civic...just higher off the ground. That's how it felt to me too. It had that "tight" Honda feel. It's not a racecar. He said that he owned a Cobra and that he preferred a fast car, but that he was impressed with the features of the Element (what, a SALESMAN who is "impressed" with a car he has for sale? Who'd've thunk it?).
It feels van-like in the seats. You're up higher than you are in the Civic. I like the recumbent laid-back feel when I'm driving, not the sitting-in-a-chair feeling. I'm sure I could adjust though.
The way the seats swing up to the side is gimmicky and look to be potential vision-blockers. Not sure how I feel about that.
The B-pillar only occurs when front and back doors are closed. This could be a problem, I need to look at the NSTB crash results for the Element (and the others too).
He had to jump the battery because the overhead lights had been on all day because of people looking inside the car. He switched them off after he jumped the battery. That's one thing I want in my next car is a smart switch-off system. I hate coming back and finding that I've left my lights on.
The MINI has rain sensors built in, did you know that?
Anyway, the BOX ROX in a lot of ways.
.
[ 03-05-2003: Message edited by: drewprops ]</p>
<strong>
i love my 2001 jetta vr6. haven't had a problem one with it. knocking on formica. that lil car will scoot. only thing i regret is not getting the leather package. cat hair is a bitch to clean up.</strong><hr></blockquote>
The VR6 is a sweet engine. Wish I could afford it. Anything over 1800cc and the government here really takes you to the cleaners with their taxes/duty. As far as your car is concerned, that's normal. Problems will come on the 4th/5th year. If you're like me and must keep your car for 10-15 years, then you'll understand what I'm talking about.
<strong>
Correction, <a href="http://www.pontiac.com/aztek/index.jsp?source=hmlnav"; target="_blank">this</a> is the ugliest car ever!
they look a hundred times worse in person, too! What were they thinking?</strong><hr></blockquote>
AMEN.
<strong>drewprops, get the MINI Cooper. I've driven the regular and the 'S' and these cars are the best value out there, no exceptions. Buy one and you won't regret it.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Yes, its cool, but you cant compare it to the Element. A car is not a truck and a SUV is not a van and a bike is not a station wagon.
The Cooper doesn't scream "let's go camping" like the Element does. IMHO
<strong>Element, ugly. Mini, beeyootiful. Car and Driver has the Mini Cooper S soundly defeating every car except the top end Porsche 911 GT2 in its slalom tests.
[ 03-05-2003: Message edited by: Eugene ]</strong><hr></blockquote>
My point: why are we comparing the two? It's like comparing a Palm and a mainframe. They dont have much in common. Just my opinion.
I do love the Mini. I have driven one. They rock. Too bad they dont make a "mini SUV" like the Element.
I wanna put *stuff* in my car. Trust me-you ain't gettin' much stuff in a Mini! :0)
That fuel economy link ROCKS!
Go check it out everybody, it lets you do side-by-side comparisons of vehicles and check on their NTSB crash ratings. nice...
Yeah, the minicoop isn't an SUV.
I'm thinking that if I got the Mini that I could keep my Civic hatchback and keep using it as a micro-ute like I've been doing all along.
Hmmmm, who'd have ever imagined I would think of my hatchback as the "bigger" car?
<strong>An S.U.V. with an in-line 4 cylinder and 160 horses? You've got to be kidding me. My wife's '02 Hyundai Sonnata has more balls than that riced-out ice cream truck.
Thanks, I'll pass. if I want a sport utility I'll stick with a Jeep or a 4-Runner. At least they'll get me over the mountain.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I don't wanna climb mountains. See the word "KC" next to my name? I'm in Kansas City. Ain't no moutains here. I DO want to be able to drive over curbs, park on the grass at concerts and events, and go camping. The Element will get me there, I'm sure...
"Riced-Out"? Let's NOT go there.
"Balls"? I'm not looking for tons-o-power and thrust. As long as I get to point B without causing a war or drilling for oil in Alaska I'm happy. The Element ain't a Freakin' "good-ol' boy" Ford Ranger.
I get the feeling that you have a gun rack in the back of your truck, eh?
<strong>Screw you people who say the Element or Aztek is ugly. Bashing cars simply because you don't like the style? Guess what? I think mustangs (ALL mustangs) are BUTT ugly and if you tell me what you drive I'll insult it also. I happen to like BOTH the Element and the Aztek. Lay off!</strong><hr></blockquote>
Word.
Well, I think the Axtek is ugly. I dont like the Outback either. Too much like a car. But I respect your opinion.