To me, it remains impressive that Nokia could sell 16M + smartphones given their dramatic change in direction. Their brand must still be strong in the eyes of many consumers, who bought their phones knowing that there would be EOF to the OS. This could portend a turnaround for them once they come out with good WP products.
There is a lot of brand loyalty in Europe with Nokia, a range of phones running Meego would have stood a chance.
That brand loyalty was always to the high quality handset hardware though, nobody really had a deep love for the Nokia software experience - for the good reason that it was wretched. Only the even more wretched software from firms like Moto & S-E allowed Nokia to look good.
Once genuinely good software firms like Apple and Google entered the smartphone market, Nokia was stuffed.
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The ineptitude of the senior management is the problem here, they should have been able to release a device like this years ago.
How exactly without just jumping to Android? Nokia simply didn't have the expertise to develop a new OS that could rival iOS or Android in the time that they had available. Even Palm, which did have some game has had tremendous problems, and HP has yet to show that WebOS can compete with the big boys.
Nokia is a hardware firm in what has suddenly become a software market.
To me, it remains impressive that Nokia could sell 16M + smartphones given their dramatic change in direction. Their brand must still be strong in the eyes of many consumers, who bought their phones knowing that there would be EOF to the OS. This could portend a turnaround for them once they come out with good WP products.
A combination of discounting and a lot of channel inertia. Even if we look at non-IFRS operating margin they still dropped by about a third down to 6.7%. Looking at those numbers, carriers will be reducing their orders of Nokia handsets and demanding lower prices.
In fact what's really interesting is that Nokia didn't just lose smartphone share, they lost considerable share in feature phones too. They lost share in practically every market - only Latin America remains a bright spot, and I think they have some residual advantage there due to a local manufacturing base.
Far from being evidence of residual brand strength, I'd say these numbers are evidence that Nokia is weaker than anybody anticipated.
Still no one can explain how magically Nokia's Microsoft Phones are going to sell...
No magic will be involved. Apple have used their cash reserves to pre-purchase and gain a stranglehold on the market for fairy dust and unicorn tears.
A far more interesting question is why won't it sell?
Windows Phone OS is already at the top of the "anything but Apple" class and Mango will just extend that lead, and Nokia make rock solid yet beautiful and compelling devices.
So that rules out the software and hardware as a potential problem, which leaves... what? Problems with advertising? The sales channel? Simply the name "Microsoft" being attached to a phone?
A far more interesting question is why won't it sell?
Windows Phone OS is already at the top of the "anything but Apple" class and Mango will just extend that lead, and Nokia make rock solid yet beautiful and compelling devices.
So that rules out the software and hardware as a potential problem, which leaves... what? Problems with advertising? The sales channel? Simply the name "Microsoft" being attached to a phone?
Good question! I'd go with
Terrible branding. The name is cumbersome, brings to mind 'windows' and the previous poor windows mobile offerings. A consumer who hasn't seen a WP7 phone in action is going to imagine that it actually has windows!
Terrible marketing. From what I've seen of WP7 advertising it fails to capture the imagination the way that iPhone or Android marketing has. One ad suggests that WP7 is the phone that will free you from your phone - completely missing the point that people are using their phones so much because they love them. We want a phone that will be more fun to use, not one we won't use as much.
Lack of existing users. Most people moving to a smartphone for the first time will be influenced by their friends' devices or their families'. WP7 has seemed unable to even win over early adopters, and without them evangelizing it's hard to get the mass market.
Indifferent sales channel - with nobody buying, sellers have stopped trying to sell. It will take a serious marketing spend to change that.
Lack of a tablet offering - the iPad seems to be generating a huge halo effect around the iPhone. Android at least has devices to offer, even if they're not as polished. Even WebOS has a tablet. Anybody who sees a Windows-7 tablet is all the more likely to end up thinking that WP7 is windows on a phone.
Lack of an ecosystem - Apple and Google can trumpet their hundreds of thousands of apps. WP7, not so much.
Terrible branding. The name is cumbersome, brings to mind 'windows' and the previous poor windows mobile offerings. A consumer who hasn't seen a WP7 phone in action is going to imagine that it actually has windows!
Terrible marketing. From what I've seen of WP7 advertising it fails to capture the imagination the way that iPhone or Android marketing has. One ad suggests that WP7 is the phone that will free you from your phone - completely missing the point that people are using their phones so much because they love them. We want a phone that will be more fun to use, not one we won't use as much.
Lack of existing users. Most people moving to a smartphone for the first time will be influenced by their friends' devices or their families'. WP7 has seemed unable to even win over early adopters, and without them evangelizing it's hard to get the mass market.
Indifferent sales channel - with nobody buying, sellers have stopped trying to sell. It will take a serious marketing spend to change that.
Lack of a tablet offering - the iPad seems to be generating a huge halo effect around the iPhone. Android at least has devices to offer, even if they're not as polished. Even WebOS has a tablet. Anybody who sees a Windows-7 tablet is all the more likely to end up thinking that WP7 is windows on a phone.
Lack of an ecosystem - Apple and Google can trumpet their hundreds of thousands of apps. WP7, not so much.
Windows has an ecosystem components that Android wishes it has. For example, Netflix, as well as solid deals with music, movie and TV show content owners and distributors. There total apps are considerably less, but I have never found that to be a real issue. We should be asking if the number of quality apps is high enough to create a sustainable and attractive app ecosystem? I don't know the answer to that.
Windows has an ecosystem components that Android wishes it has. For example, Netflix, as well as solid deals with music, movie and TV show content owners and distributors. There total apps are considerably less, but I have never found that to be a real issue. We should be asking if the number of quality apps is high enough to create a sustainable and attractive app ecosystem? I don't know the answer to that.
Yes but now you're trying to make the kind of nuanced argument of quality over quantity that Apple tried to make for years in the desktop market-place. It didn't work then, and it's hard to imagine it working now. Consumers just aren't that discerning.
Yes but now you're trying to make the kind of nuanced argument of quality over quantity that Apple tried to make for years in the desktop market-place. It didn't work then, and it's hard to imagine it working now. Consumers just aren't that discerning.
That isn't the argument I'm making at all. I did state that MS has "quantity" and "quality" in certain areas that Android can't easily compete with, but my point was that once you get to a certain threshold of quantity the number of apps you have becomes a moot point. IOW, the ecosystem needs to be sustainable and attractive so even if you have the 10 best in class apps in the world if you only have 10 app in your ecosystem you're not going to succeed, so I'm clearly not saying it's quality over quantity.
That isn't the argument I'm making at all. I did state that MS has "quantity" and "quality" in certain areas that Android can't easily compete with, but my point was that once you get to a certain threshold of quantity the number of apps you have becomes a moot point. IOW, the ecosystem needs to be sustainable and attractive so even if you have the 10 best in class apps in the world if you only have 10 app in your ecosystem you're not going to succeed, so I'm clearly not saying it's quality over quantity.
Ok, sorry - you're not making it, but it's the case that MS would be having to make in the market for why WP7s tiny App population didn't matter. When for years they've been making the exact opposite argument for why Apple's smaller app population on the desktop did matter.
MS won't start to attract significant developer interest for WP7 until they break out of single digits in share - it's chicken and egg. Worse given the sneaking suspicion that Windows 8 will be a complete break with WP7 a lot of developers will choose to wait and see what MS' intentions are.
Windows Phone OS is already at the top of the "anything but Apple" class and Mango will just extend that lead, and Nokia make rock solid yet beautiful and compelling devices.
Did you mean to say at the top of the "anything but Apple" class that also isn't Android or RIM?
Ok, each time that I think that i've gotten my head around how bad it is for Nokia, I realise I missed something.
I had been looking at Nokia's non IFRS operating margin, as it seemed fairer than the headline quarterly loss given that they took a charge when sold their old Meego & Symbian teams down the river to Accenture.
But now looking at it again, they didn't exclude the one-off payment from Apple from the non-IFRS numbers, and it roughly balances the losses from restructuring - so in fact their underlying margins on smartphones & feature phones really were negative.
Nokia joins S-E & Moto in the ranks of zombie handset makers. They're dead, they just haven't stopped moving yet.
No magic will be involved. Apple have used their cash reserves to pre-purchase and gain a stranglehold on the market for fairy dust and unicorn tears.
A far more interesting question is why won't it sell?
It won't sell because it is terrible. the market has already spoken. The UI is beyond unusable. The Zune software is complete garbage...it has failed now for how many years? The proprietary Silverlight platform is horrible...even Microsoft is abandoning it with Windows 8 in favor of industry standard web technologies.
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Windows Phone OS is already at the top of the "anything but Apple" class...
On what planet? Windows Phone OS is on the bottom, below Android, RIM, and even the cancelled Microsoft Windows Mobile. Can you share some sales numbers? Oh yeah, Microsoft won't release any because they are so bad.
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and Mango will just extend that lead, and Nokia make rock solid yet beautiful and compelling devices.
Ah, the dreams of a Microsoft fandrone... If you start with a turd,you can polish it however you like, but it is still a turd. How will Nokia's phones be different from the other Microsoft Windows Phone cloners?
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So that rules out the software and hardware as a potential problem, which leaves... what? Problems with advertising? The sales channel? Simply the name "Microsoft" being attached to a phone?
Microsoft Windows Phone OS is a complete failure; it does nothing iOS and Android don't already do, and do better. The hardware is terrible (love the forced crappy BING buttons. Guess Microsoft knows no one in the right mind would choose BING over Google so they force the phones to lock to BING), terrible software (Zune failed how many years ago?), and not to mention all the text scrolling off the right of the screen...LOL. UI design 101 fail much?
Comments
There is a lot of brand loyalty in Europe with Nokia, a range of phones running Meego would have stood a chance.
That brand loyalty was always to the high quality handset hardware though, nobody really had a deep love for the Nokia software experience - for the good reason that it was wretched. Only the even more wretched software from firms like Moto & S-E allowed Nokia to look good.
Once genuinely good software firms like Apple and Google entered the smartphone market, Nokia was stuffed.
The ineptitude of the senior management is the problem here, they should have been able to release a device like this years ago.
How exactly without just jumping to Android? Nokia simply didn't have the expertise to develop a new OS that could rival iOS or Android in the time that they had available. Even Palm, which did have some game has had tremendous problems, and HP has yet to show that WebOS can compete with the big boys.
Nokia is a hardware firm in what has suddenly become a software market.
I thought the saying was, "Isn't it funny; a ship that leaks from the top... heh."
Especially if the ship was sinking in the first place...
Nokia had a fighting chance had it bought Palm and/or transitioned quickly to a newer platform.
Now, they have limited themselves to a role of OEM for Win Phone.
RIM is next.
To me, it remains impressive that Nokia could sell 16M + smartphones given their dramatic change in direction. Their brand must still be strong in the eyes of many consumers, who bought their phones knowing that there would be EOF to the OS. This could portend a turnaround for them once they come out with good WP products.
A combination of discounting and a lot of channel inertia. Even if we look at non-IFRS operating margin they still dropped by about a third down to 6.7%. Looking at those numbers, carriers will be reducing their orders of Nokia handsets and demanding lower prices.
In fact what's really interesting is that Nokia didn't just lose smartphone share, they lost considerable share in feature phones too. They lost share in practically every market - only Latin America remains a bright spot, and I think they have some residual advantage there due to a local manufacturing base.
Far from being evidence of residual brand strength, I'd say these numbers are evidence that Nokia is weaker than anybody anticipated.
"The company has turned to a former Microsoft executive as its new CEO to right the ship."
what's that saying again? oh yeah, the blind leading the blind...
Another remake of "The Poseidon Adventure"?
Still no one can explain how magically Nokia's Microsoft Phones are going to sell...
No magic will be involved. Apple have used their cash reserves to pre-purchase and gain a stranglehold on the market for fairy dust and unicorn tears.
A far more interesting question is why won't it sell?
Windows Phone OS is already at the top of the "anything but Apple" class and Mango will just extend that lead, and Nokia make rock solid yet beautiful and compelling devices.
So that rules out the software and hardware as a potential problem, which leaves... what? Problems with advertising? The sales channel? Simply the name "Microsoft" being attached to a phone?
A far more interesting question is why won't it sell?
Windows Phone OS is already at the top of the "anything but Apple" class and Mango will just extend that lead, and Nokia make rock solid yet beautiful and compelling devices.
So that rules out the software and hardware as a potential problem, which leaves... what? Problems with advertising? The sales channel? Simply the name "Microsoft" being attached to a phone?
Good question! I'd go with
Good question! I'd go with
Windows has an ecosystem components that Android wishes it has. For example, Netflix, as well as solid deals with music, movie and TV show content owners and distributors. There total apps are considerably less, but I have never found that to be a real issue. We should be asking if the number of quality apps is high enough to create a sustainable and attractive app ecosystem? I don't know the answer to that.
Windows has an ecosystem components that Android wishes it has. For example, Netflix, as well as solid deals with music, movie and TV show content owners and distributors. There total apps are considerably less, but I have never found that to be a real issue. We should be asking if the number of quality apps is high enough to create a sustainable and attractive app ecosystem? I don't know the answer to that.
Yes but now you're trying to make the kind of nuanced argument of quality over quantity that Apple tried to make for years in the desktop market-place. It didn't work then, and it's hard to imagine it working now. Consumers just aren't that discerning.
Yes but now you're trying to make the kind of nuanced argument of quality over quantity that Apple tried to make for years in the desktop market-place. It didn't work then, and it's hard to imagine it working now. Consumers just aren't that discerning.
That isn't the argument I'm making at all. I did state that MS has "quantity" and "quality" in certain areas that Android can't easily compete with, but my point was that once you get to a certain threshold of quantity the number of apps you have becomes a moot point. IOW, the ecosystem needs to be sustainable and attractive so even if you have the 10 best in class apps in the world if you only have 10 app in your ecosystem you're not going to succeed, so I'm clearly not saying it's quality over quantity.
Windows has an ecosystem components that Android wishes it has. For example, Netflix,
The Android Market does offer Netflix.
https://market.android.com/details?i...ix.mediaclient
That isn't the argument I'm making at all. I did state that MS has "quantity" and "quality" in certain areas that Android can't easily compete with, but my point was that once you get to a certain threshold of quantity the number of apps you have becomes a moot point. IOW, the ecosystem needs to be sustainable and attractive so even if you have the 10 best in class apps in the world if you only have 10 app in your ecosystem you're not going to succeed, so I'm clearly not saying it's quality over quantity.
Ok, sorry - you're not making it, but it's the case that MS would be having to make in the market for why WP7s tiny App population didn't matter. When for years they've been making the exact opposite argument for why Apple's smaller app population on the desktop did matter.
MS won't start to attract significant developer interest for WP7 until they break out of single digits in share - it's chicken and egg. Worse given the sneaking suspicion that Windows 8 will be a complete break with WP7 a lot of developers will choose to wait and see what MS' intentions are.
Windows Phone OS is already at the top of the "anything but Apple" class and Mango will just extend that lead, and Nokia make rock solid yet beautiful and compelling devices.
Did you mean to say at the top of the "anything but Apple" class that also isn't Android or RIM?
Because I think you left those two out.
Did you mean to say at the top of the "anything but Apple" class that also isn't Android or RIM?
Because I think you left those two out.
RIM? Seriously?
The Android Market does offer Netflix.
https://market.android.com/details?i...ix.mediaclient
Thanks. Upon further research I see it's Ben out since May.
"The company has turned to a former Microsoft executive as its new CEO to right the ship."
what's that saying again? oh yeah, the blind leading the blind...
That is hilarious. I can imagine Nokia turing into another SCO - funded by MS fighting everyone to make sure that Windows Phones fail miserably.
I had been looking at Nokia's non IFRS operating margin, as it seemed fairer than the headline quarterly loss given that they took a charge when sold their old Meego & Symbian teams down the river to Accenture.
But now looking at it again, they didn't exclude the one-off payment from Apple from the non-IFRS numbers, and it roughly balances the losses from restructuring - so in fact their underlying margins on smartphones & feature phones really were negative.
Nokia joins S-E & Moto in the ranks of zombie handset makers. They're dead, they just haven't stopped moving yet.
Nokia joins S-E & Moto in the ranks of zombie handset makers. They're dead, they just haven't stopped moving yet.
Speaking of zombie handset makers, now Carl Icahn wants Motorola Mobility to sell its patent portfolio.
No magic will be involved. Apple have used their cash reserves to pre-purchase and gain a stranglehold on the market for fairy dust and unicorn tears.
A far more interesting question is why won't it sell?
It won't sell because it is terrible. the market has already spoken. The UI is beyond unusable. The Zune software is complete garbage...it has failed now for how many years? The proprietary Silverlight platform is horrible...even Microsoft is abandoning it with Windows 8 in favor of industry standard web technologies.
Windows Phone OS is already at the top of the "anything but Apple" class...
On what planet? Windows Phone OS is on the bottom, below Android, RIM, and even the cancelled Microsoft Windows Mobile. Can you share some sales numbers? Oh yeah, Microsoft won't release any because they are so bad.
and Mango will just extend that lead, and Nokia make rock solid yet beautiful and compelling devices.
Ah, the dreams of a Microsoft fandrone... If you start with a turd,you can polish it however you like, but it is still a turd. How will Nokia's phones be different from the other Microsoft Windows Phone cloners?
So that rules out the software and hardware as a potential problem, which leaves... what? Problems with advertising? The sales channel? Simply the name "Microsoft" being attached to a phone?
Microsoft Windows Phone OS is a complete failure; it does nothing iOS and Android don't already do, and do better. The hardware is terrible (love the forced crappy BING buttons. Guess Microsoft knows no one in the right mind would choose BING over Google so they force the phones to lock to BING), terrible software (Zune failed how many years ago?), and not to mention all the text scrolling off the right of the screen...LOL. UI design 101 fail much?