To me Win8 on a tablet looks perfect. The iPhone was perfect because Apple recognised a phone is not a PC. MS seem to have recognised that a tablet isn't a phone and to me that is why Win8 on a tablet looks far better than the iPad.
I love the idea of a tablet that can morph into a full computer when required. Heck, I'd love to be able to dock my iPhone into a monitor and have full OSX.
However the theory that most subscribe to at the moment is that it isn't possible, and I don't know if Microsoft have enough fairy dust left to pull something like that off.
People need to realize Win8 isn't just Win7 on touch devices. There's two distinct user modes: Metro (Windows Phone 7-esque), and Desktop (Windows 7-esque). You can switch between the two at will.
This is in contrast to Apple's obvious approach, which is to slowly blend the two without a real switch mechanism. Microsoft is just jumping ahead of where Apple is undeniably heading. Whether it's premature or not is the gamble.
But I HAVE used Win8 builds on both touch and desktop platforms. Those of you who are saying MS should just put Windows Phone 7/8 on tablets are going to have a good laugh soon when you see metro Win8 on one.
But why would you need to switch between the two at will?
Why would you want to switch to Metro on a desktop computer, and why would you want to switch to classic mode on a tablet??
I wouldn't say Apple is "blending" because their laptops and desktops (with the magic trackpad) actually have a giant multitouch trackpad, and Apple is using that mostly for gestures and such. They are just taking features from iOS that they think would work well on their Desktop and Laptop hardware. Apple is not really taking anything from the desktop and adding it to iOS, either.
Eventually Apple will have a touch / desktop product that redefines desktop/laptop computing like they have done so much in the past. Some kind of product with both a touch screen and traditional input system that blows away what Windows tablets have ever offered. This product would be great with Lion or more likely the next Mac OS X product which adds even more touch functionality, whereas Microsoft has no ability to redefine the definition of hardware - they can only make a stupid OS that switches between two UI modes that work on existing hardware.
I love the idea of a tablet that can morph into a full computer when required. Heck, I'd love to be able to dock my iPhone into a monitor and have full OSX.
However the theory that most subscribe to at the moment is that it isn't possible, and I don't know if Microsoft have enough fairy dust left to pull something like that off.
It's possible, it's just problematic. For starters you have to balance the performance and power of he device far more as an ultraportable PC than as a tablet. No way can you run full Excel on windows-8 in 256Mb of ram. Battery life will thus suffer.
Second controlling a desktop OS application requires a desktop OS UI paradigm - or some horrible 'translation layer' that dumbs down the touch interface into a proxy for a mouse.
The former maybe has a technical solution, the latter definitely doesn't.
yeah but many people don't need w7 yet. XP is still working just fine for them.
Yes but Win-7 is having a far better launch than Vista, and a big chunk of MS' business is predicated on the idea that it can get people and businesses to pay for OS upgrades.
The fact that W-7 revenues are flat at this level of OS penetration is a bit of a concern for MS.
Yes but Win-7 is having a far better launch than Vista, and a big chunk of MS' business is predicated on the idea that it can get people and businesses to pay for OS upgrades.
The fact that W-7 revenues are flat at this level of OS penetration is a bit of a concern for MS.
That's a very simplistic view though. You have to also take into account the large number of business that have Windows licenses rather than actually buying a copy. Irruspective what those companies do the revenue will be flat, they could upgrade or not upgrade the revenue will still be flat.
The consumer side of the market generally get an OS with a new machine and as everyone already has a machine, the growth in that area is going to be flat.
I have visions of this site being run by a bunch of 20 year old, socially retarted iFan nerds that foam at the mouth in a negative way if anything makes Apple look bad or in a postive way if Microsoft looks bad.
Your post leads off with the one negative area in the earning call. The rest is ALL POSTIVE, yet you would NEVER know from your post.
On a more un-biased and more popular tech blog site you get real information.
"For the fiscal fourth quarter that ended June 30, Microsoft posted operating income of $6.17 billion, a 4 percent gain from the year-ago period, on sales of $17.37 billion, an 8 percent jump. Earnings per share climbed 35 percent to 69 cents.
For the year, Microsoft posted operating income of $27.16 billion, up 13 percent, on sales of $69.94 billion, a 12 percent gain from fiscal 2010. Earnings per share grew 28 percent to $2.69."
Yes that Windows divsion was down over last year 2% but the OTHER 5 were UP 11-45%.
Look, I like Apple more than Microsoft as well and realistically, you can't expect a fair and balanced story from an Apple fan-site, but seriously. Microsoft is doing fine. Relax with colourful negative language.
They could have had more revenue if they changed their price policy. Windows prices are too high! That's why there are so many pirated copies. If the prices were lower they would get less cash from each copy but I believe they would sell a lot more, even to us Mac users that need Windows for some games or apps unavailable for Mac.
Your post leads off with the one negative area in the earning call. The rest is ALL POSTIVE, yet you would NEVER know from your post.
<scarcasm>
Yep, it's ALL positive except the slight decline in Windows revenue. This for example is great news - the online division's losses continue to grow at an excellent rate.
"Despite a 16.25 percent increase in sales, Microsoft's online services unit, which has bled almost $6.5 billion dollars over the past three years, posted a loss of $728 million, compared to a loss of $688 million a year ago."
Look, I like Apple more than Microsoft as well and realistically, you can't expect a fair and balanced story from an Apple fan-site, but seriously. Microsoft is doing fine. Relax with colourful negative language.
I would expect them to not cover Microsoft at all really. I come here for Apple news. I use and like products from both companies.
Yep, it's ALL positive except the slight decline in Windows revenue. This for example is great news - the online division's losses continue to grow at an excellent rate.
"Despite a 16.25 percent increase in sales, Microsoft's online services unit, which has bled almost $6.5 billion dollars over the past three years, posted a loss of $728 million, compared to a loss of $688 million a year ago."
</scarcasm>
Looking the chart in the cnet link I supplied....
Online Services Division 2011 Full Year 2.5 billion, Y/Y Growth 15%
Online Services Division 2011 Full Year 2.5 billion, Y/Y Growth 15%
Or you could read the actual MS press release which would confirm that they had increased losses on increased revenues - radical eh? The more they sell the more they lose.
Jeesh - typical of those Apple fanboys over in Redmond that they put in these blatant lies eh? Have to go to CNET for the real truth, MS just can't be trusted with their own numbers.
Thanks for posting that. For all the years MS has been investing more in UI research than any other software company they're put out only two truly innovative things, and Metro UI is one of them (the other being Ribbons).
It feels wrong every time I say it but I agree about Metro. It looks attractive, distinctive and seems to have some fundamental advantages over its rivals in how it presents information.
It took them decades but MS has finally gotten serious about UI design.
Thanks for posting that. For all the years MS has been investing more in UI research than any other software company they're put out only two truly innovative things, and Metro UI is one of them (the other being Ribbons).
It's not often that MS gets something so right that it catches the attention of non-Windows users, but I've found Metro UI themes for both iOS and Android.
The underlying design principles make for an interesting read:
I doubt many iOS fans will appreciate what Metro UI is doing, and true enough Ballmer says so many stupid things so frequently that it's way too easy to dismiss everything MS does.
But I believe Jensen Harris (who headed both the Ribbons and Metro teams) is an inspired and insightful designer who's doing some very interesting work.
Kudos to MS for being willing to invest in new directions like this.
Comments
To me Win8 on a tablet looks perfect. The iPhone was perfect because Apple recognised a phone is not a PC. MS seem to have recognised that a tablet isn't a phone and to me that is why Win8 on a tablet looks far better than the iPad.
I love the idea of a tablet that can morph into a full computer when required. Heck, I'd love to be able to dock my iPhone into a monitor and have full OSX.
However the theory that most subscribe to at the moment is that it isn't possible, and I don't know if Microsoft have enough fairy dust left to pull something like that off.
Neutral websites: Microsoft beats expectations.
Anti-Microsoft websites: Windows revenues disappoint.
Somewhere in there is the truth, but it's probably quite dull.
Windows 8 has the metro UI for touch.
People need to realize Win8 isn't just Win7 on touch devices. There's two distinct user modes: Metro (Windows Phone 7-esque), and Desktop (Windows 7-esque). You can switch between the two at will.
This is in contrast to Apple's obvious approach, which is to slowly blend the two without a real switch mechanism. Microsoft is just jumping ahead of where Apple is undeniably heading. Whether it's premature or not is the gamble.
But I HAVE used Win8 builds on both touch and desktop platforms. Those of you who are saying MS should just put Windows Phone 7/8 on tablets are going to have a good laugh soon when you see metro Win8 on one.
But why would you need to switch between the two at will?
Why would you want to switch to Metro on a desktop computer, and why would you want to switch to classic mode on a tablet??
I wouldn't say Apple is "blending" because their laptops and desktops (with the magic trackpad) actually have a giant multitouch trackpad, and Apple is using that mostly for gestures and such. They are just taking features from iOS that they think would work well on their Desktop and Laptop hardware. Apple is not really taking anything from the desktop and adding it to iOS, either.
Eventually Apple will have a touch / desktop product that redefines desktop/laptop computing like they have done so much in the past. Some kind of product with both a touch screen and traditional input system that blows away what Windows tablets have ever offered. This product would be great with Lion or more likely the next Mac OS X product which adds even more touch functionality, whereas Microsoft has no ability to redefine the definition of hardware - they can only make a stupid OS that switches between two UI modes that work on existing hardware.
I love the idea of a tablet that can morph into a full computer when required. Heck, I'd love to be able to dock my iPhone into a monitor and have full OSX.
However the theory that most subscribe to at the moment is that it isn't possible, and I don't know if Microsoft have enough fairy dust left to pull something like that off.
It's possible, it's just problematic. For starters you have to balance the performance and power of he device far more as an ultraportable PC than as a tablet. No way can you run full Excel on windows-8 in 256Mb of ram. Battery life will thus suffer.
Second controlling a desktop OS application requires a desktop OS UI paradigm - or some horrible 'translation layer' that dumbs down the touch interface into a proxy for a mouse.
The former maybe has a technical solution, the latter definitely doesn't.
yeah but many people don't need w7 yet. XP is still working just fine for them.
Yes but Win-7 is having a far better launch than Vista, and a big chunk of MS' business is predicated on the idea that it can get people and businesses to pay for OS upgrades.
The fact that W-7 revenues are flat at this level of OS penetration is a bit of a concern for MS.
Yes but Win-7 is having a far better launch than Vista, and a big chunk of MS' business is predicated on the idea that it can get people and businesses to pay for OS upgrades.
The fact that W-7 revenues are flat at this level of OS penetration is a bit of a concern for MS.
That's a very simplistic view though. You have to also take into account the large number of business that have Windows licenses rather than actually buying a copy. Irruspective what those companies do the revenue will be flat, they could upgrade or not upgrade the revenue will still be flat.
The consumer side of the market generally get an OS with a new machine and as everyone already has a machine, the growth in that area is going to be flat.
will buy them so they can get legal hacking.
I have visions of this site being run by a bunch of 20 year old, socially retarted iFan nerds that foam at the mouth in a negative way if anything makes Apple look bad or in a postive way if Microsoft looks bad.
Your post leads off with the one negative area in the earning call. The rest is ALL POSTIVE, yet you would NEVER know from your post.
On a more un-biased and more popular tech blog site you get real information.
http://news.cnet.com/8301-10805_3-20...ap;editorPicks
"For the fiscal fourth quarter that ended June 30, Microsoft posted operating income of $6.17 billion, a 4 percent gain from the year-ago period, on sales of $17.37 billion, an 8 percent jump. Earnings per share climbed 35 percent to 69 cents.
For the year, Microsoft posted operating income of $27.16 billion, up 13 percent, on sales of $69.94 billion, a 12 percent gain from fiscal 2010. Earnings per share grew 28 percent to $2.69."
Yes that Windows divsion was down over last year 2% but the OTHER 5 were UP 11-45%.
J
Your post leads off with the one negative area in the earning call. The rest is ALL POSTIVE, yet you would NEVER know from your post.
<scarcasm>
Yep, it's ALL positive except the slight decline in Windows revenue. This for example is great news - the online division's losses continue to grow at an excellent rate.
"Despite a 16.25 percent increase in sales, Microsoft's online services unit, which has bled almost $6.5 billion dollars over the past three years, posted a loss of $728 million, compared to a loss of $688 million a year ago."
</scarcasm>
Look, I like Apple more than Microsoft as well and realistically, you can't expect a fair and balanced story from an Apple fan-site, but seriously. Microsoft is doing fine. Relax with colourful negative language.
I would expect them to not cover Microsoft at all really. I come here for Apple news. I use and like products from both companies.
<scarcasm>
Yep, it's ALL positive except the slight decline in Windows revenue. This for example is great news - the online division's losses continue to grow at an excellent rate.
"Despite a 16.25 percent increase in sales, Microsoft's online services unit, which has bled almost $6.5 billion dollars over the past three years, posted a loss of $728 million, compared to a loss of $688 million a year ago."
</scarcasm>
Looking the chart in the cnet link I supplied....
Online Services Division 2011 Full Year 2.5 billion, Y/Y Growth 15%
Looking the chart in the cnet link I supplied....
Online Services Division 2011 Full Year 2.5 billion, Y/Y Growth 15%
Or you could read the actual MS press release which would confirm that they had increased losses on increased revenues - radical eh? The more they sell the more they lose.
http://www.microsoft.com/investor/Ea...4/default.aspx
Jeesh - typical of those Apple fanboys over in Redmond that they put in these blatant lies eh? Have to go to CNET for the real truth, MS just can't be trusted with their own numbers.
My unsolicited advice: break them apart into about 3 or 4 companies. A web company, a Sharepoint/SQL Server company, Microsoft Office, and Windows.
That would probably work best for them. Maybe sell XBox off to someone.
Thanks for posting that. For all the years MS has been investing more in UI research than any other software company they're put out only two truly innovative things, and Metro UI is one of them (the other being Ribbons).
It feels wrong every time I say it but I agree about Metro. It looks attractive, distinctive and seems to have some fundamental advantages over its rivals in how it presents information.
It took them decades but MS has finally gotten serious about UI design.
Thanks for posting that. For all the years MS has been investing more in UI research than any other software company they're put out only two truly innovative things, and Metro UI is one of them (the other being Ribbons).
It's not often that MS gets something so right that it catches the attention of non-Windows users, but I've found Metro UI themes for both iOS and Android.
The underlying design principles make for an interesting read:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metro_UI
http://www.riagenic.com/archives/487
I doubt many iOS fans will appreciate what Metro UI is doing, and true enough Ballmer says so many stupid things so frequently that it's way too easy to dismiss everything MS does.
But I believe Jensen Harris (who headed both the Ribbons and Metro teams) is an inspired and insightful designer who's doing some very interesting work.
Kudos to MS for being willing to invest in new directions like this.
The difference? This one is real.