[quote]And yes, I think Bush is guided by God. The Left will mock this and say it is dishonest. One thing I believe about Bush is that he wants this for what he considers to be the right reasons. You (and many others) may disagree with those reasons, but I'm sure he is steadfast in his beliefs. Don't say "God told him to attack Iraq"...that's not what he said...it is a mischaracterization. He said he prays for guidance, wisdom and strength, and that he feels he is on the right course. <hr></blockquote>
Oh I know this is going to stir up a bee's nest, but the whole reason we are fighting a WoT is because of what one man thought was his 'message from God'. So please forgive me when I say that I don't think attacking anyone based on a 'message from God' is a good idea. I know Republicans don't like this, but religion has no place in government.
Anyone else remember The President Of Love talking about God helping him through his blowjob scandal? Lay off the man's religion you hypocritical bigots.
About 40 minutes later, another Iraqi man stopped a U.N. vehicle outside the headquarters, pleading "Save me! Save me!" in Arabic, according to the United Nations.
The man, apparently unarmed, forced his way into the driver's seat of the stopped vehicle. As an Iraqi guard struggled to pull him out, a U.N. inspector watched from the passenger seat.
Oh my. I am just in disbelief when I hear this kind of thinking. The President of the United States is equated with a maniacal dictator who slaughters his own people and has toyed with the international community for years. This is the Left for you.
And, the first statement makes it even worse. You cite Bill Clinton as being more trustworthy than George W. Bush. That's absurd....unbelievably absurd. You are talking about the president that looked the people right in the eye....wagged his finger in their faces, and LIED. He lied under oath. He later admitted it! And you compare him to President Bush? Clinton is perhaps the most dishonest President in the history of this nation. Say what you about the economy and "being at peace" during his administration (also a lie), he was the very definition of "morally corrupt".</strong><hr></blockquote>
Yada,yada,yada! Yes he cheated on his wife and thought he could hide it from the american people ( given that this is a private matter maybe he should have been able to ). But, most importantly he did his job. Which is all that really matters here. If he had been forcing some female assistant in to something or had made unwanted advances this point would have been different. Get it?
One more thing. Men that get that far in life usually have something dirty in the closet. A sad but true fact. If we were to examine Bush's past I'm sure we would find some interesting things. From where I stand he has a lot of potential.
" Anyone else remember The President Of Love talking about God helping him through his blowjob scandal? Lay off the man's religion you hypocritical bigots. "
I think my answer to SDW has taken care of this point nicely.
There is a fascinating article in the recent Harper's (not Bazaar) about a group of radical fundamentalists that call themselves 'the Family' (no ironical relationship to Manson's "Family" intended but definitely an existant irony nonetheless) This group has as a goal, explicitly stated amoung themselves, to take over the world . . . ie: to rule the world.
I say among themselves, because they have as a strategy the notion that they should work "behind the scenes" . . . allthough they do have many politicians in the "Family" and also have very visual Breakfast meetings . . .they keep fundraising on a "personal level" and recruitment is also covert and planning also is covert and . . . what other behind the scenes?
their only Public event is the National Prayer Breakfast
(1990 had teh guest George GH Bush who praised the Organizer Doug coe)
Other things that came to light in the time that this journalist spent among them (they thought his interest in 'Jesus" meant that he was one of them)
1. The organization known as Youth Corps is an unacknowledged outreach program for this "family," a way where they can send out TENTACLES to get recruits and etc without it visibly stated that that is the purpose of the organization
2. They take inspiration from such leaders as Hitler and Lenin and the Mafia, and invoke them often in council like discussion, they take from these leaders in that these 'Leaders' represent the ability to form a "Covanant" with the people under them . . a covanant that they emulate within 'The Family'
3. Political members of this group include both Dems and Repubs: Don Nickles (R, Oky) Charles Grassely (R, Iowah), John Ensign (R, Nev) Pete Dominici (R NM), James Inhoe (R, Oky_ Bill Nelson (D, Florida), Conrad Burns (R, Mont) and reps: Jim DeMint (R, SC) Fank Wolf (R Va) Joseph Pitts (R, PA) Zach Wamp (R TN) and Bart Stupach (D, Mich)
4. Guises under which the "Family" have operated include: National Commitee for Christian Leadership, National Leadership Council, Fellowship House, Fellowship Foundation. National Fellowship Council, The International Foundation
5. They are ANTI-DEMOCRATIC, their leadership, David Coe and his father Doug Coe and assorted others, express that they feel that Democracy is a sign of Ungodly pride --which means that they see it as wicked
6. They feel that the Covanant between God and the Jews was broken long ago and feel that the relationship been themselves (the core members) and God is the 'new covanant. In other words they feel Jews are wicked and that they themselves are the "Chosen People"
7. They have been involved with numerous historical situations, some of them publicly, and some not so publicly . . . some of them beneficial to all parties (the public ones) such as brokering some peace in Rawanda, and others a little shady: such as their brockering relationships twixt US and dictators in South America (Brazil's Gen Costa E Silva, Salvador's Carlos Eugenios Vides Casanva--convicted by Florida of teh torture of thousands and, Gen G. A. Martinez of Honduras- linked directly to Death Squads) others as well.
8. The Family is organized in the same fashion as Gramsci's communist ideal Guerilla army and also the Islamic Terrorist . . .in other words they have an organizational structure of a hierarchy of seperate cells, each where the members know abouut each member of the cell only except for those above.
At one breakfast in 1965 Franco's Spain Vereide boasted "there are secret cells such as the American Embssy [and] the Standard Oil office [that allow us] to move practically everywhere."
9. They have no qualms about the use of worldy power, in act they respect force and power (legions and principalities?!?!) as means for their ends . . .if not their ends
10. They have much worldly power and lots and lots of money.
12. The differences between this organization and an Islamist organization are negligeable:
One prays to Allah , the Other to Christ,
They both want world domination and use force to achieve those ends (the Family uses networking covertly perhaps a little better)
Both strive to be 'invisible' to the public and yet use 'public figures as a means of extendng their power.
Both utilize a structure of cells, similar to the mafia and Communist guerilla groups
Both disregard the Jews as false and even as wicked (though that is not the expressed position, the fact that The Family sees the Covanant as broken by the Jews amounts to the same thing)
They both want Global Domination
They both see themselves as "the Lord's Revolutionaries"
They both think Democracy is "Ungodly" --therefor as wicked.
Except this is not an elaborate conspiracy theory, it is a well known group tht was once very visual and is now expressly covert . . expressly behind the scenes
If you have no patience, then that's your problem it doesn't make this group and its goals and methods any less real.
They are not like the "trilateral Commission" which is speculation, this group is hardly covert at all . . . merely quiet: their assets are in plain sight and their membership (most at least) is not hard to devine . . . hell, the leader is Doug Coe . . . that is no mystery . .
what is a mystery is to what extent they have real power and with whom in power do they regularly consult
the other reason that I posted this is because they are "Christians" but their expressed methods and ideas are very much like radical Islamisists.
I 'll hate to be at the place of Hans Blix. What a horrible job he get. Whatever he said he will be criticized, because there is two camps in UN waiting to listen what they expect.
Comments
<strong>
And yes, I think Bush is guided by God. </strong><hr></blockquote>
Reason enough to keep him from making any decisions for the US.
<strong>
Reason enough to keep him from making any decisions for the US.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Bigot
Oh I know this is going to stir up a bee's nest, but the whole reason we are fighting a WoT is because of what one man thought was his 'message from God'. So please forgive me when I say that I don't think attacking anyone based on a 'message from God' is a good idea. I know Republicans don't like this, but religion has no place in government.
Look at the bottom of <a href="http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast/01/25/sprj.irq.inspections/index.html"; target="_blank">this story</a>:
About 40 minutes later, another Iraqi man stopped a U.N. vehicle outside the headquarters, pleading "Save me! Save me!" in Arabic, according to the United Nations.
The man, apparently unarmed, forced his way into the driver's seat of the stopped vehicle. As an Iraqi guard struggled to pull him out, a U.N. inspector watched from the passenger seat.
Nothing about Blix "turning him over" to anyone.
More in-depth <a href="http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,3-569490,00.html"; target="_blank">follow-up</a>.
I have always liked Blix and given his reports to the Security Council. But this kind of disturbs me.
He added that Iraqi scientists could find "more elegant ways" of approaching UN inspectors.
That does show a bit of ignorance and cold-heartedness. The guy was saying "save me!" not "i have useful information!"
I wonder if there is any involved party that actually gives a crap about the Iraqi people.
<strong>
Bigot</strong><hr></blockquote>
It's not my fault there's an official separation of church and state in the Constitution.
Extremist.
<strong>"Clinton was better than Bush"
"Bush is nomore trustworthy than Saddam"
Oh my. I am just in disbelief when I hear this kind of thinking. The President of the United States is equated with a maniacal dictator who slaughters his own people and has toyed with the international community for years. This is the Left for you.
And, the first statement makes it even worse. You cite Bill Clinton as being more trustworthy than George W. Bush. That's absurd....unbelievably absurd. You are talking about the president that looked the people right in the eye....wagged his finger in their faces, and LIED. He lied under oath. He later admitted it! And you compare him to President Bush? Clinton is perhaps the most dishonest President in the history of this nation. Say what you about the economy and "being at peace" during his administration (also a lie), he was the very definition of "morally corrupt".</strong><hr></blockquote>
Yada,yada,yada! Yes he cheated on his wife and thought he could hide it from the american people ( given that this is a private matter maybe he should have been able to ). But, most importantly he did his job. Which is all that really matters here. If he had been forcing some female assistant in to something or had made unwanted advances this point would have been different. Get it?
One more thing. Men that get that far in life usually have something dirty in the closet. A sad but true fact. If we were to examine Bush's past I'm sure we would find some interesting things. From where I stand he has a lot of potential.
[ 03-09-2003: Message edited by: jimmac ]</p>
<strong>
Bigot</strong><hr></blockquote>
You're one to talk. All one has to do is listen to your constant references to france.
" Anyone else remember The President Of Love talking about God helping him through his blowjob scandal? Lay off the man's religion you hypocritical bigots. "
I think my answer to SDW has taken care of this point nicely.
<strong>
It's not my fault there's an official separation of church and state in the Constitution.
Extremist.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Ignoramus
[ 03-09-2003: Message edited by: jimmac ]</p>
<strong>
Ignoramus</strong><hr></blockquote>
<img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" /> <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" /> <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" />
I say among themselves, because they have as a strategy the notion that they should work "behind the scenes" . . . allthough they do have many politicians in the "Family" and also have very visual Breakfast meetings . . .they keep fundraising on a "personal level" and recruitment is also covert and planning also is covert and . . . what other behind the scenes?
their only Public event is the National Prayer Breakfast
(1990 had teh guest George GH Bush who praised the Organizer Doug coe)
Other things that came to light in the time that this journalist spent among them (they thought his interest in 'Jesus" meant that he was one of them)
1. The organization known as Youth Corps is an unacknowledged outreach program for this "family," a way where they can send out TENTACLES to get recruits and etc without it visibly stated that that is the purpose of the organization
2. They take inspiration from such leaders as Hitler and Lenin and the Mafia, and invoke them often in council like discussion, they take from these leaders in that these 'Leaders' represent the ability to form a "Covanant" with the people under them . . a covanant that they emulate within 'The Family'
3. Political members of this group include both Dems and Repubs: Don Nickles (R, Oky) Charles Grassely (R, Iowah), John Ensign (R, Nev) Pete Dominici (R NM), James Inhoe (R, Oky_ Bill Nelson (D, Florida), Conrad Burns (R, Mont) and reps: Jim DeMint (R, SC) Fank Wolf (R Va) Joseph Pitts (R, PA) Zach Wamp (R TN) and Bart Stupach (D, Mich)
4. Guises under which the "Family" have operated include: National Commitee for Christian Leadership, National Leadership Council, Fellowship House, Fellowship Foundation. National Fellowship Council, The International Foundation
5. They are ANTI-DEMOCRATIC, their leadership, David Coe and his father Doug Coe and assorted others, express that they feel that Democracy is a sign of Ungodly pride --which means that they see it as wicked
6. They feel that the Covanant between God and the Jews was broken long ago and feel that the relationship been themselves (the core members) and God is the 'new covanant. In other words they feel Jews are wicked and that they themselves are the "Chosen People"
7. They have been involved with numerous historical situations, some of them publicly, and some not so publicly . . . some of them beneficial to all parties (the public ones) such as brokering some peace in Rawanda, and others a little shady: such as their brockering relationships twixt US and dictators in South America (Brazil's Gen Costa E Silva, Salvador's Carlos Eugenios Vides Casanva--convicted by Florida of teh torture of thousands and, Gen G. A. Martinez of Honduras- linked directly to Death Squads) others as well.
8. The Family is organized in the same fashion as Gramsci's communist ideal Guerilla army and also the Islamic Terrorist . . .in other words they have an organizational structure of a hierarchy of seperate cells, each where the members know abouut each member of the cell only except for those above.
At one breakfast in 1965 Franco's Spain Vereide boasted "there are secret cells such as the American Embssy [and] the Standard Oil office [that allow us] to move practically everywhere."
9. They have no qualms about the use of worldy power, in act they respect force and power (legions and principalities?!?!) as means for their ends . . .if not their ends
10. They have much worldly power and lots and lots of money.
12. The differences between this organization and an Islamist organization are negligeable:
One prays to Allah , the Other to Christ,
They both want world domination and use force to achieve those ends (the Family uses networking covertly perhaps a little better)
Both strive to be 'invisible' to the public and yet use 'public figures as a means of extendng their power.
Both utilize a structure of cells, similar to the mafia and Communist guerilla groups
Both disregard the Jews as false and even as wicked (though that is not the expressed position, the fact that The Family sees the Covanant as broken by the Jews amounts to the same thing)
They both want Global Domination
They both see themselves as "the Lord's Revolutionaries"
They both think Democracy is "Ungodly" --therefor as wicked.
.
[ 03-09-2003: Message edited by: pfflam ]</p>
I have 0 (zero) patience for elaborate conspiracy theories.
[ 03-09-2003: Message edited by: BuonRotto ]</p>
<strong>What the hell are you talking about?
I have 0 (zero) patience for elaborate conspiracy theories.
[ 03-09-2003: Message edited by: BuonRotto ]</strong><hr></blockquote>
Except this is not an elaborate conspiracy theory, it is a well known group tht was once very visual and is now expressly covert . . expressly behind the scenes
If you have no patience, then that's your problem it doesn't make this group and its goals and methods any less real.
They are not like the "trilateral Commission" which is speculation, this group is hardly covert at all . . . merely quiet: their assets are in plain sight and their membership (most at least) is not hard to devine . . . hell, the leader is Doug Coe . . . that is no mystery . .
what is a mystery is to what extent they have real power and with whom in power do they regularly consult
the other reason that I posted this is because they are "Christians" but their expressed methods and ideas are very much like radical Islamisists.
<a href="http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2002/004/7.26.html"; target="_blank">http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2002/004/7.26.html</a>;
and here is the president speaking at one of their Prayer Meetings:
<a href="http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2002/02/20020207-1.html"; target="_blank">Here</a>
\\Not such a conspiracy . . . or rather, not so hidden as the Coes would probably like
[quote] And yes, [I think Bush is guided by God.<hr></blockquote>
Here are some thoughts by others on *that* subject:
<a href="http://www.lewrockwell.com/tucker/tucker29.html"; target="_blank">http://www.lewrockwell.com/tucker/tucker29.html</a>;
(Lew Rockwell's site is a conservative/libertarian forum btw).
Some relevant articles (conservative and liberal links):
<a href="http://www.amconmag.com/01_13_03/geyer7.html"; target="_blank">http://www.amconmag.com/01_13_03/geyer7.html</a>;
<a href="http://www.counterpunch.org/hill01042003.html"; target="_blank">http://www.counterpunch.org/hill01042003.html</a>;
<a href="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A8803-2003Jan31.html"; target="_blank">http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A8803-2003Jan31.html</a>;
<a href="http://www.tompaine.com/feature.cfm/ID/5489"; target="_blank">http://www.tompaine.com/feature.cfm/ID/5489</a>;
You that do are deceived and yes I really believe that.
Fellowship
<strong>What can I say... Many of you are beyond me as to why you have to rip Bush because of his faith.
You that do are deceived and yes I really believe that.
Fellowship</strong><hr></blockquote>
ooooooooohhhhhhh!
<img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" />