...I have owned both iPad 1 and 2, and even with 512MB in the iPad 2, web browsing is horrible - and I won't accept Apple fanbois (of which I am one when they yet things right, such as the MB Air 11"), but 1. Scrolling on a web page is nasty with iPad Safari - the content jumps back up to the top if some content is still loading, something that never happens on any other browser.
I only disagree here because you blame it on RAM. Frankly you don't know and neither do I, but it could very well be a programming problem. Notably I've seen similar behavior on the desktop. So I'm thinking Apple released a funky Safari.
Quote:
2) Worse, and some of us thought this would be cured with iPad 2, content keeps reloading every time you switch pages - this causes havoc if you are posting comments, logged into a service, or just want to go back read something you loaded earlier, but do NOT want updated because the content may change.
Yep but do realize that more RAM did help some here.
Quote:
Apple are doing this on purpose to force people who NEED their products to work properly to upgrade.
Paranoia?
Quote:
I am willing to bet iPad 3 will NOT do this, yet every Android tablet I know, including those costing just £70 are able to open MULTIPLE web pages properly.
Who knows what iPad 3 or iOS will do. I'm certain a few developers know by now but the point is neither you nor I know anything about how the new hardware and software will behave. I'd suggest that it will get better for the most part but regressions do happen.
Quote:
I am VERY angry at Apple for manipulating their customers and glad that I can remain impartial and not be brainwashed, despite having owned almost every computer or iOS product they have ever made, other than PowerMac or Mac Pro.
No actually you have brainwashed yourself into believing that the engineers at Apple have some evil ill defined intent to personally trouble you. I'm extremely sure that nobody at Apple wants clunky software going out the door, but it does happen because sooner or later you have to ship product.
Quote:
I expect this massive usability flaw in iOS for iPad Safari to be fixed in iOS 5 else I am selling the iPad 2 and getting a Motorola Xoom, LG or Samsung Galaxy Tab.
More RAM won't make the CPU process faster or make the battery last longer.
RAM helps is a couple of ways here. First it reduces runs to secondary store so you gain by quicker access to data and fewer moments waiting for data to load to RAM. This also impacts battery life for the same reasons. Now the difference here is that the secondary store (flash) in the iPad is much faster and generally lower power than similar hardware in more traditional systems. Beyond that if data can be maintained in RAM less sophisticated algorithms are required to process it.
The other thing to realize is that we are already dual core on iPad. That means the app can be doing more things in parallel which of course is only effective if data is in RAM.
iOS uses a more modern rendering engine than Android. Animations are much smoother which makes over all system performance feel snappier!
I think a lot of people underestimate just how much foresight Apple had here. iOS or back then iPhone OS, had the advantage of very good hardware acceleration right from the start. This has given Apple a huge leg up over the competition every step of the way as they did an extremely good job with the imagining system in iOS.
As a side not it has been said that engineers and managers at RIM (or one of the old line phone companies) didn't believe Apples commercials when the iPhone first debuted. They literally thought it was a fake that what they where doing on the platform was impossible. It is no wonder that everyone is still playing catch up.
Don't you think keeping major changes like this from your buyers is a bit dishonest. It is no different than putting a Buick engine in a Chevy.
I really don't have to expelling anything. Just realize that being an informed consumer is a good thing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism
Dishonest by not considering a spec sheet listing for a handheld device they think is important for the sale of their device? You'll have to explain that argument in detail.
Sorry to burst your bubble, but this doesn't happen to me on my iPad2. I don't seem to experience any of these problems and generally prefer the web on this device for overall viewing.
Quote:
... Scrolling on a web page is nasty with iPad Safari - the content jumps back up to the top if some content is still loading, something that never happens on any other browser...
Not really, Apple has been very dishonest here in not publicly stating how much RAM is in the various iPad models. This data is valid for comparison within a family of devices.
I'm not quite sure the typical consumer would understand. They like to know that everything is normalized across platforms and with RAM or rather an OS' ability to maximize RAM it's a bit harder to glean what 1GB of RAM means to a Windows, WebOS, iOS or Android tablet.
I like how Apple doesn't focus heavily on specs. Had I looked at the spec sheet for the late 2010 Macbook Air I would have scoffed. Core 2 Duo running at 1.4. Glacial.
In practice though the Macbook Air defies conventional wisdom and performs above its specs IMO.
I figured his mention of price was a veiled comment about how the competitors have double the RAM.
Yes. The stuff I quoted said that the RAM is 256M, saving $14.00.
I suspect that one big reason for not letting background apps run is insufficient RAM. I think your opinion is that the CPU couldn't handle it elegantly.
Maybe you are right, but if the reason is RAM, then like I said, I'd rather pay an extra $14 dollars and get more complete multitasking abilities in return.
Apple is SOOO MEAN! They just want to screw everyone, blah blah blah.
I have no idea what you mean when you talk about sluggish browsing. Even on iPad 1 I found it more enjoyable than on desktops, and heads and tails above any other touch device I've tried.
BTW, Apple is A company, not a group of companies, so its "Apple IS", not "Apple ARE".
You don't say 'Great Britain ARE' do you?
APPLE 'IS' as APPLE 'DOES' and they DO IT PROPERLY
(that's a song one of my best friends produced back in the 90's
The name of the group was "2 Puertoricans a Black Man and a Dominican")
My BFF was the Dominican- CHEP NUNEZ may he RIP!!!)
RIP HIM A NEW G C B I was going to but u did the honors!!
...I have owned both iPad 1 and 2, and even with 512MB in the iPad 2, web browsing is horrible - and I won't accept Apple fanbois (of which I am one when they yet things right, such as the MB Air 11"), but 1. Scrolling on a web page is nasty with iPad Safari - the content jumps back up to the top if some content is still loading, something that never happens on any other browser. 2) Worse, and some of us thought this would be cured with iPad 2, content keeps reloading every time you switch pages - this causes havoc if you are posting comments, logged into a service, or just want to go back read something you loaded earlier, but do NOT want updated because the content may change.
Apple are doing this on purpose to force people who NEED their products to work properly to upgrade. I am willing to bet iPad 3 will NOT do this, yet every Android tablet I know, including those costing just £70 are able to open MULTIPLE web pages properly.
I am VERY angry at Apple for manipulating their customers and glad that I can remain impartial and not be brainwashed, despite having owned almost every computer or iOS product they have ever made, other than PowerMac or Mac Pro.
I expect this massive usability flaw in iOS for iPad Safari to be fixed in iOS 5 else I am selling the iPad 2 and getting a Motorola Xoom, LG or Samsung Galaxy Tab.
There's a such thing as doing your due diligence before going out and plunking down $500 on something.
Yes. The stuff I quoted said that the RAM is 256M, saving $14.00.
I suspect that one big reason for not letting background apps run is insufficient RAM. I think your opinion is that the CPU couldn't handle it elegantly.
Maybe you are right, but if the reason is RAM, then like I said, I'd rather pay an extra $14 dollars and get more complete multitasking abilities in return.
Pay nothing, jailbreak your device, and add unfettered multitasking yourself.
It may be crass but it is true and the iPad demonstrates clearly that Java sucks and needs considerable hardware to support. It isn't that the Java runtime slows things down, even though it does, it is that the JVM and support takes up a considerable amount of RAM. When Apple doubled the RAM in the iPad almost all of that went to supporting apps on the device.
Also Apple puts very tight controls on what runs in back ground. Now this may be a bad thing if you have an app you actually want to run in background it does mean that again more memory is there to support the app. On top of that Apple isn't supporting a lot of anything in the kernel, thus no drivers taking up RAM. So in the end it is all about how the system uses the facilities available to it.
Not really, Apple has been very dishonest here in not publicly stating how much RAM is in the various iPad models. This data is valid for comparison within a family of devices.
In the end Androids problems run far deeper than just being based on a Java like VM. Fundamentally it is a rushed product, driven by people with no vision. Apple on the other hand had a vision right from the start. For example the very first iPhone made extensive use of the GPU on the chip, on Android it is a choice of the hardware vendor.
In any event we still have Playbook and WebOS devices. Maybe WebOS can find a good steward to move it forward, Playbook is dead also unless RIM gets new management.
Refusing to reveal RAM is being "dishonest?" How is Apple lying to you about the amount of RAM the iPad has? Apple didn't even tell you that to begin with. Refusing to reveal something is not being dishonest.
Other manufacturers tout 1GB because they are living in the last century. 1GB, demonstrably, doesn't matter. I'd say the marketing geniuses at Apples competitors have nothing else to offer.
Adios. Don't let the door hit you on the way out....or better yet, let it.
Is that really the best you guys can offer as an answer? Because, honestly, sometimes is much better to say nothing and look smart.
While OP did get a bit emotional with his post, there's a point there. On my iPhone sometimes even opening only 2 pages forces browser to reload page whenever switching from one to another. And yes, it can be annoying.
Don't you think keeping major changes like this from your buyers is a bit dishonest. It is no different than putting a Buick engine in a Chevy.
I really don't have to expelling anything. Just realize that being an informed consumer is a good thing.
I don't know what it is about expelling, but I don't think it's dishonest. A customer informed about the internal RAM doesn't help them make a decision, it's just another data point to fuss about that obscures the gestalt of the device. The specs of the silicon doesn't necessarily help people understand how well put together anything is or isn't. If you want to continue the tired auto metaphor, having more horsepower doesn't mean anything if your suspension is rubbish and you can't put the power to the pavement well, or if your gas tank has an apparent leak in it or if the transmission robs more than half te engine's power. Higher speed doesn't mean much if all it does is over/understeers and the car plants itself into a tree.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleLover2
Yes. The stuff I quoted said that the RAM is 256M, saving $14.00.
I suspect that one big reason for not letting background apps run is insufficient RAM. I think your opinion is that the CPU couldn't handle it elegantly.
Maybe you are right, but if the reason is RAM, then like I said, I'd rather pay an extra $14 dollars and get more complete multitasking abilities in return.
The problem is that "real" multitasking as it is done on modern operating systems carries with it battery life penalties. My buddy's Android with a 2" or so screen with an extended battery making the whole phone 3/4" thick can't last as long as my iPhone 4 that's half as thick and has a much bigger screen.
Having stuff like Java, Flash, full real multitasking are often demanded features that seems to be a large part of why the actual battery life on Android devices tends to be poor. Java I get the least anyway, I've not actually used it on any computer in quite some time.
Comments
...I have owned both iPad 1 and 2, and even with 512MB in the iPad 2, web browsing is horrible - and I won't accept Apple fanbois (of which I am one when they yet things right, such as the MB Air 11"), but 1. Scrolling on a web page is nasty with iPad Safari - the content jumps back up to the top if some content is still loading, something that never happens on any other browser.
I only disagree here because you blame it on RAM. Frankly you don't know and neither do I, but it could very well be a programming problem. Notably I've seen similar behavior on the desktop. So I'm thinking Apple released a funky Safari.
2) Worse, and some of us thought this would be cured with iPad 2, content keeps reloading every time you switch pages - this causes havoc if you are posting comments, logged into a service, or just want to go back read something you loaded earlier, but do NOT want updated because the content may change.
Yep but do realize that more RAM did help some here.
Apple are doing this on purpose to force people who NEED their products to work properly to upgrade.
Paranoia?
I am willing to bet iPad 3 will NOT do this, yet every Android tablet I know, including those costing just £70 are able to open MULTIPLE web pages properly.
Who knows what iPad 3 or iOS will do. I'm certain a few developers know by now but the point is neither you nor I know anything about how the new hardware and software will behave. I'd suggest that it will get better for the most part but regressions do happen.
I am VERY angry at Apple for manipulating their customers and glad that I can remain impartial and not be brainwashed, despite having owned almost every computer or iOS product they have ever made, other than PowerMac or Mac Pro.
No actually you have brainwashed yourself into believing that the engineers at Apple have some evil ill defined intent to personally trouble you. I'm extremely sure that nobody at Apple wants clunky software going out the door, but it does happen because sooner or later you have to ship product.
I expect this massive usability flaw in iOS for iPad Safari to be fixed in iOS 5 else I am selling the iPad 2 and getting a Motorola Xoom, LG or Samsung Galaxy Tab.
Do you promise to leave the forums if you do so?
More RAM won't make the CPU process faster or make the battery last longer.
RAM helps is a couple of ways here. First it reduces runs to secondary store so you gain by quicker access to data and fewer moments waiting for data to load to RAM. This also impacts battery life for the same reasons. Now the difference here is that the secondary store (flash) in the iPad is much faster and generally lower power than similar hardware in more traditional systems. Beyond that if data can be maintained in RAM less sophisticated algorithms are required to process it.
The other thing to realize is that we are already dual core on iPad. That means the app can be doing more things in parallel which of course is only effective if data is in RAM.
RAM is a beautiful thing.
Asus looks like the value leader based on that table...
That's about the only 'leader' it apparently is.....
iOS uses a more modern rendering engine than Android. Animations are much smoother which makes over all system performance feel snappier!
I think a lot of people underestimate just how much foresight Apple had here. iOS or back then iPhone OS, had the advantage of very good hardware acceleration right from the start. This has given Apple a huge leg up over the competition every step of the way as they did an extremely good job with the imagining system in iOS.
As a side not it has been said that engineers and managers at RIM (or one of the old line phone companies) didn't believe Apples commercials when the iPhone first debuted. They literally thought it was a fake that what they where doing on the platform was impossible. It is no wonder that everyone is still playing catch up.
I really don't have to expelling anything. Just realize that being an informed consumer is a good thing.
Dishonest by not considering a spec sheet listing for a handheld device they think is important for the sale of their device? You'll have to explain that argument in detail.
... Scrolling on a web page is nasty with iPad Safari - the content jumps back up to the top if some content is still loading, something that never happens on any other browser...
Me, I wish I could pay another $14 and get real multitasking.
What is real multitasking?
Not really, Apple has been very dishonest here in not publicly stating how much RAM is in the various iPad models. This data is valid for comparison within a family of devices.
I'm not quite sure the typical consumer would understand. They like to know that everything is normalized across platforms and with RAM or rather an OS' ability to maximize RAM it's a bit harder to glean what 1GB of RAM means to a Windows, WebOS, iOS or Android tablet.
I like how Apple doesn't focus heavily on specs. Had I looked at the spec sheet for the late 2010 Macbook Air I would have scoffed. Core 2 Duo running at 1.4. Glacial.
In practice though the Macbook Air defies conventional wisdom and performs above its specs IMO.
More RAM won't make the CPU process faster or make the battery last longer.
Is the CPU really the bottleneck? I didn't realize.
I figured his mention of price was a veiled comment about how the competitors have double the RAM.
Yes. The stuff I quoted said that the RAM is 256M, saving $14.00.
I suspect that one big reason for not letting background apps run is insufficient RAM. I think your opinion is that the CPU couldn't handle it elegantly.
Maybe you are right, but if the reason is RAM, then like I said, I'd rather pay an extra $14 dollars and get more complete multitasking abilities in return.
Oh give it a rest.
Apple is SOOO MEAN! They just want to screw everyone, blah blah blah.
I have no idea what you mean when you talk about sluggish browsing. Even on iPad 1 I found it more enjoyable than on desktops, and heads and tails above any other touch device I've tried.
BTW, Apple is A company, not a group of companies, so its "Apple IS", not "Apple ARE".
You don't say 'Great Britain ARE' do you?
APPLE 'IS' as APPLE 'DOES' and they DO IT PROPERLY
(that's a song one of my best friends produced back in the 90's
The name of the group was "2 Puertoricans a Black Man and a Dominican")
My BFF was the Dominican- CHEP NUNEZ may he RIP!!!)
RIP HIM A NEW G C B I was going to but u did the honors!!
...I have owned both iPad 1 and 2, and even with 512MB in the iPad 2, web browsing is horrible - and I won't accept Apple fanbois (of which I am one when they yet things right, such as the MB Air 11"), but 1. Scrolling on a web page is nasty with iPad Safari - the content jumps back up to the top if some content is still loading, something that never happens on any other browser. 2) Worse, and some of us thought this would be cured with iPad 2, content keeps reloading every time you switch pages - this causes havoc if you are posting comments, logged into a service, or just want to go back read something you loaded earlier, but do NOT want updated because the content may change.
Apple are doing this on purpose to force people who NEED their products to work properly to upgrade. I am willing to bet iPad 3 will NOT do this, yet every Android tablet I know, including those costing just £70 are able to open MULTIPLE web pages properly.
I am VERY angry at Apple for manipulating their customers and glad that I can remain impartial and not be brainwashed, despite having owned almost every computer or iOS product they have ever made, other than PowerMac or Mac Pro.
I expect this massive usability flaw in iOS for iPad Safari to be fixed in iOS 5 else I am selling the iPad 2 and getting a Motorola Xoom, LG or Samsung Galaxy Tab.
There's a such thing as doing your due diligence before going out and plunking down $500 on something.
Yes. The stuff I quoted said that the RAM is 256M, saving $14.00.
I suspect that one big reason for not letting background apps run is insufficient RAM. I think your opinion is that the CPU couldn't handle it elegantly.
Maybe you are right, but if the reason is RAM, then like I said, I'd rather pay an extra $14 dollars and get more complete multitasking abilities in return.
Pay nothing, jailbreak your device, and add unfettered multitasking yourself.
There's a such thing as doing your due diligence before going out and plunking down $500 on something.
He also had the option of buying it, trying it, and returning it without a restocking fee if he felt the product didn't suit his needs at that time.
It may be crass but it is true and the iPad demonstrates clearly that Java sucks and needs considerable hardware to support. It isn't that the Java runtime slows things down, even though it does, it is that the JVM and support takes up a considerable amount of RAM. When Apple doubled the RAM in the iPad almost all of that went to supporting apps on the device.
Also Apple puts very tight controls on what runs in back ground. Now this may be a bad thing if you have an app you actually want to run in background it does mean that again more memory is there to support the app. On top of that Apple isn't supporting a lot of anything in the kernel, thus no drivers taking up RAM. So in the end it is all about how the system uses the facilities available to it.
Not really, Apple has been very dishonest here in not publicly stating how much RAM is in the various iPad models. This data is valid for comparison within a family of devices.
In the end Androids problems run far deeper than just being based on a Java like VM. Fundamentally it is a rushed product, driven by people with no vision. Apple on the other hand had a vision right from the start. For example the very first iPhone made extensive use of the GPU on the chip, on Android it is a choice of the hardware vendor.
In any event we still have Playbook and WebOS devices. Maybe WebOS can find a good steward to move it forward, Playbook is dead also unless RIM gets new management.
Refusing to reveal RAM is being "dishonest?" How is Apple lying to you about the amount of RAM the iPad has? Apple didn't even tell you that to begin with. Refusing to reveal something is not being dishonest.
Adios. Don't let the door hit you on the way out....or better yet, let it.
Is that really the best you guys can offer as an answer? Because, honestly, sometimes is much better to say nothing and look smart.
While OP did get a bit emotional with his post, there's a point there. On my iPhone sometimes even opening only 2 pages forces browser to reload page whenever switching from one to another. And yes, it can be annoying.
Don't you think keeping major changes like this from your buyers is a bit dishonest. It is no different than putting a Buick engine in a Chevy.
I really don't have to expelling anything. Just realize that being an informed consumer is a good thing.
I don't know what it is about expelling, but I don't think it's dishonest. A customer informed about the internal RAM doesn't help them make a decision, it's just another data point to fuss about that obscures the gestalt of the device. The specs of the silicon doesn't necessarily help people understand how well put together anything is or isn't. If you want to continue the tired auto metaphor, having more horsepower doesn't mean anything if your suspension is rubbish and you can't put the power to the pavement well, or if your gas tank has an apparent leak in it or if the transmission robs more than half te engine's power. Higher speed doesn't mean much if all it does is over/understeers and the car plants itself into a tree.
Yes. The stuff I quoted said that the RAM is 256M, saving $14.00.
I suspect that one big reason for not letting background apps run is insufficient RAM. I think your opinion is that the CPU couldn't handle it elegantly.
Maybe you are right, but if the reason is RAM, then like I said, I'd rather pay an extra $14 dollars and get more complete multitasking abilities in return.
The problem is that "real" multitasking as it is done on modern operating systems carries with it battery life penalties. My buddy's Android with a 2" or so screen with an extended battery making the whole phone 3/4" thick can't last as long as my iPhone 4 that's half as thick and has a much bigger screen.
Having stuff like Java, Flash, full real multitasking are often demanded features that seems to be a large part of why the actual battery life on Android devices tends to be poor. Java I get the least anyway, I've not actually used it on any computer in quite some time.
Don't you think keeping major changes like this from your buyers is a bit dishonest. It is no different than putting a Buick engine in a Chevy.
I really don't have to expelling anything. Just realize that being an informed consumer is a good thing.
How does updating improved RAM become a downgrade as you're eluding by putting a Buick engine in place of a 350 Small block?
At any rate, who needs to advertise a 350 Small block now with Corvette heads when demand outstrips supply?
Adios. Don't let the door hit you on the way out....or better yet, let it.
Sure you are...