New Car Pricing
They say that new car sales are doing well on the whole. I am starting wonder how in light of what the things cost these days.
My wife and I will soon be in the market for either an SUV or minivan. We need something pretty big (large mid-size or smaller large size SUV) because we are having a baby...and we have an 85 pound collie to cart around). We're not thrilled about the prospect of a van, for two reasons. 1. We have safety concerns with the minivans. 2. We are not sure we are "there" yet (i.e. perhaps when we have more children we will consider it).
Anyway, we have it pretty much narrowed down to:
1. Ford Explorer
2. GMC Envoy XL
---Pathfinder (et al) are really too small.
The Explorer is nice, but we'd need a V8 because it's six isn't powerful enough. The Envoy is our real choice, but it is going to run a good $36K. The Envoy's 275 horsepower six is great..and better on gas than an 8 would be. (yes, we care about that!)
Then I think...what? Thirty-six thousand dollars? Where do I get off spending that kind of money? Where are my priorities....but wait, we do need a safe, reliable family vehicle that will suit our needs. AHHH! A five year loan with zero percent financing and about 10% down...that's like $550 a month! As my father said awhile back "a decent car now costs upwards of $30K".
My question: When will cars become "too expensive"? I think they may be hitting that point now. Sales plummet when rebates and financing incentives disappear. Will the used car market pick-up soon because of this?
On a side note, I don't think we will buy used because the interest would make the payment nearly the same as a new vehicle...and that doesn't make any sense to me. Also, we have leased before but don't feel that is an option this time.
[ 03-17-2003: Message edited by: SDW2001 ]</p>
My wife and I will soon be in the market for either an SUV or minivan. We need something pretty big (large mid-size or smaller large size SUV) because we are having a baby...and we have an 85 pound collie to cart around). We're not thrilled about the prospect of a van, for two reasons. 1. We have safety concerns with the minivans. 2. We are not sure we are "there" yet (i.e. perhaps when we have more children we will consider it).
Anyway, we have it pretty much narrowed down to:
1. Ford Explorer
2. GMC Envoy XL
---Pathfinder (et al) are really too small.
The Explorer is nice, but we'd need a V8 because it's six isn't powerful enough. The Envoy is our real choice, but it is going to run a good $36K. The Envoy's 275 horsepower six is great..and better on gas than an 8 would be. (yes, we care about that!)
Then I think...what? Thirty-six thousand dollars? Where do I get off spending that kind of money? Where are my priorities....but wait, we do need a safe, reliable family vehicle that will suit our needs. AHHH! A five year loan with zero percent financing and about 10% down...that's like $550 a month! As my father said awhile back "a decent car now costs upwards of $30K".
My question: When will cars become "too expensive"? I think they may be hitting that point now. Sales plummet when rebates and financing incentives disappear. Will the used car market pick-up soon because of this?
On a side note, I don't think we will buy used because the interest would make the payment nearly the same as a new vehicle...and that doesn't make any sense to me. Also, we have leased before but don't feel that is an option this time.
[ 03-17-2003: Message edited by: SDW2001 ]</p>
Comments
I recently gave back my leased Audi after 3 years. I could have bought it out but after taxes, I'd be hard pressed to resell it at a profit.
I'm of the thinking is that if you can live with a used car, that's where you'll find a bargain. Perhaps not older than 5 years old though.
If not, then go the leasing route if you (and most ) don't have 30K or so lying around.
<strong>1. We have safety concerns with the minivans.</strong><hr></blockquote>
You know...literally one minute of research would prove that your safety concerns are totally baseless. How about doing a little research buddy? Well, you get a free pass this one time.
<a href="http://www.hwysafety.org/vehicle_ratings/ce/html/0119.htm"; target="_blank">GMC Envoy Safety Ratings</a>
<a href="http://www.hwysafety.org/vehicle_ratings/ce/html/0125.htm"; target="_blank">Ford Explorer Safety Ratings</a>
<a href="http://www.hwysafety.org/vehicle_ratings/ce/html/97026.htm"; target="_blank">Toyota Sienna Safety Ratings</a>
<a href="http://www.hwysafety.org/vehicle_ratings/ce/html/98024.htm"; target="_blank">Honda Odyssey Safety Ratings</a>
And if you consider used...this got the best safety ratings on the block.
<a href="http://www.hwysafety.org/vehicle_ratings/ce/html/95028.htm"; target="_blank">Ford Windstar 1995 - 1998</a>
Here's a little tip for reading the charts:
Green = GOOD!
Yellow = Ok...
Orange = Feh
Red = MY SPINE OH F**K!
[ 03-17-2003: Message edited by: BR ]</p>
Lease, I'll never understand this... throwing away perfectly good money to use a car you end up paying too much for. NEVER lease, why oh why would you lease anything? Finance, loans, even if you don't have the money to purchase the car outright, why would you ever lease?
its a good vehicle & hassle free
wife & me drove from san diego -> edmonton
& back & it was a great ride (3 days each way)
fords have a pretty bad track record for
engine/transmision issues which is why
after looking around for 6 months we settled
on the pathfinder
you might want to look at gas mileage too
before plunking down a lot of money for an
suv.
<strong>They say that new car sales are doing well on the whole. I am starting wonder how in light of what the things cost these days.
My wife and I will soon be in the market for either an SUV or minivan. We need something pretty big (large mid-size or smaller large size SUV) because we are having a baby...and we have an 85 pound collie to cart around). We're not thrilled about the prospect of a van, for two reasons. 1. We have safety concerns with the minivans. 2. We are not sure we are "there" yet (i.e. perhaps when we have more children we will consider it).
Anyway, we have it pretty much narrowed down to:
1. Ford Explorer
2. GMC Envoy XL</strong><hr></blockquote>
(but they're both uggggly!!)
<strong>Satchmo, when does one ever resell a new car at a profit?
Lease, I'll never understand this... throwing away perfectly good money to use a car you end up paying too much for. NEVER lease, why oh why would you lease anything? Finance, loans, even if you don't have the money to purchase the car outright, why would you ever lease?</strong><hr></blockquote>
If the buy back of a leased vehicle is low, it's not uncommon to purchase it and resell it privately for a couple grand profit. Especially if you have low km. and kept it in good condition.
Leasing is okay in my case where I can write off the payments towards my business.
Nothing wrong with leasing. It allows you to drive the car you want. After 3 years you have the option of keeping it if you like it or walking away.
<strong>Satchmo, when does one ever resell a new car at a profit?
Lease, I'll never understand this... throwing away perfectly good money to use a car you end up paying too much for. NEVER lease, why oh why would you lease anything? Finance, loans, even if you don't have the money to purchase the car outright, why would you ever lease?</strong><hr></blockquote>
why buy something that depreciates in value? You're not throwing money away when you lease, you're paying for a vehicle that you can use everyday for that time period. Plus you're paying for the luxury of a brand new car with a full warranty and no hassle.
Why pay $700 a month for 5 years to own a BMW that will be out of warranty and worth a lot less when I'm done paying for it when I can lease it for $400 a month? After 3 years I just bring it back to the dealership and get a new one, with a NEW warranty.
Since you're leasing for a short term, you don't have to worry about maintenance and you're always in a nice new car. If you go the buying route, you'll probably save money in the long run but is it worth the hassle of maintenance?
Leasing isn't for everyone, but neither is buying.
They are well known for having a myriad of problems. Just do an internet search.
I've known several people who've owned one and all had major problems.
Believe me, unless you are towing something significant, you don't need a ton of power. 275 hp is overkill for a grocery getter.
You can save significantly by buying a vehicle that is 2-3 years old, and that was just turned in from a lease. The depreciation on a new vehicle is absolutely ridiculous.
But hey, it's your money.
It's a dog...never based you purchase soley on a dog for god sakes. I have 2 dogs and they have never been a deciding factor on which car I buy. Maybe rearrange your proceess of thinking, you'll end up with better choices. <img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[oyvey]" />
<strong>It's a dog...never based you purchase soley on a dog for god sakes. I have 2 dogs and they have never been a deciding factor on which car I buy. Maybe rearrange your proceess of thinking, you'll end up with better choices. <img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[oyvey]" /> </strong><hr></blockquote>
I was going to suggest a visit to the vets (and perhaps an abortion clinic) but my common sense got the better of me.
<strong>Maybe rearrange your proceess of thinking, you'll end up with better choices. <img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[oyvey]" /> </strong><hr></blockquote>
This is SDW we are talking about here. Tee hee.
My brother, who is a mechanic by trade says that the specs on all the cars made today are much tighter than in decades past. Sort of like how a car from 1980 pollutes about 20 times more than a car made in 2000.
He tells me any car made in the 90's will easily go 200k miles with routine care. My other Jeep has 220k miles on it and still starts and runs easily. (1990 Cherokee)
I would say that cars are suffering from the same problems as computers. They are having to load them down with tons of add-on's to try to distinguish them from older models.
I know people will speak about mechanical issues, but the point is for $550 a month, I could purchase another Cherokee like mine every 6 months for the entire 5 years.
My 220k mile Jeep took us to San Francisco, Yellowstone, Salt Lake City, New York, Washington D.C. you name it. I put 8,000 miles on it in about 2 months when we were on vacation for 3.5 weeks.
The other thing about buying used like this is just the peace of mind. I could in my car tonight and drive however far I want, and for whatever reason I want.
The depreciation? That has already happened (Sure it might go down another $1500 before becoming a junker several years from now, but still...) The miles, no worries because I won't have to worry about the loan to value ratio in an accident or leases limiting the number of miles I drive.
Also I can get just about anything a dealer would offer just by being a little creative. For example in my new (for me) 1993 Cherokee I installed a $130 Jensen cd/radio that also plays MP3's. The largest cd I have made held 170 songs which it will randomly play if I so choose.
That is equivelent to a 15 disc cd changer in my book.
The used market is where I would go. You can drive carefree and make the mistake 10 times over and come out even. If you of course manage not to do that, you come out about $30000 ahead.
Nick
[ 03-17-2003: Message edited by: trumptman ]</p>
when the TT came out, it was on a waitlist for over a year, people with early examples sold theirs for profit to impatient people.
Explorers are TERRIBLE vehicles. They are an intrinsically flawed design that Ford unleashed on the motoring public knowing it was flawed to replace an even worse design: the Bronco II. Most of the small truck-based SUV's have the same problem- tall, top-heavy and narrow tracked, with fat tires that are great for off- raoding but terrible for highway travel. They are, as a group, not as safe as automobiles, not required to pass the safety tests that autos have to pass, and not required to pass the emissions that cars are held to. And, unless you are willing to pay the big bucks for a Touareg or SRX, you'll be getting something that handles like a bus. If you really need alll wheel drive, get an Audi, a Volvo or a Subaru.
Hondas and Toyota's are always a good bet. These companies are known for their style and RELIABILITY. If you can find a large SUV from one of these manufacturers, you probably won't go wrong. That said, the Toyota Sequoia is stylish, big, and seems like what you might be looking for. Edmunds.com says this about it:
"A thoroughly capable full-size SUV that beats Ford and General Motors at their own game."
Just my $0.02. Good luck!
But I have to agree with trumptman, used cars are getting very good, and even if you want something newer, it's almost always worth it to let some other chump take the massive depreciation hit and then buy a 3 year-old model back from leasing. If you want to, you can easily drive such a vehicle for another 10 years for less than half what it costs new, often less than a 3rd if you're dealing in domestics or less popular "cars" rather than grossly overinflated SUV's.
As an undergrad, I knew a guy who only bough sub $1000 cars, he'd been at it since HS. First he bought a civic, when it died, he bought another one for 500 (Canadian) which he drove for all 4 years of college. Can't beat that. Insurance was dirt cheap, he only had the basic driver's libility and collision, fire? theft? why bother? When it broke down, he bought another one. Nice system actually.
OK, so that's a little extreme if you need a presentable vehicle for business, or a little more commuting reliability, but buying a quality car with back from leasing is the best proposition out there right now.
Yeah, Johnathan, there's the odd case of limited supply on a "gotta have it" car. Usually that means exotics, but ever so often a car like the TT, the odd vette, even the MINI, fall into that category. But sellers gotta act fast, in a year that advantage tends to expire, it certainly won't be there on a car that's been used for a 3-4 year lease period unless said car is something VERY limited production, we're talking Ferraris and Astons here, not even Porsches qualify, did anyone else notice that 993's are just reaching a sane level? Something to consider given that they're built to last and often lovingly cared for/low Km.
PS: My first post on the new message board