Well, a lot of people actually used AOL back in the day, and i mean used aol as an isp, not just coasters. They WERE the dominant isp in the 90s.
True, last i checked, iOS was used in more devices total than android. However, with the rate of activations ever climbing higher, it shouldnt be too long before android overtakes iOS in that. I doubt apple is concerned at all about this though. They seem pretty content on being a niche player, and i think this holds true for OSX as well.
On that subject, i dont think that many people are motivated to make the change to OSX from windows. I briefly had a macbook pro a few years ago, and while OSX was pretty good OS, it just didnt have any killer features that would tempt me to make the effort to convert, nor was there anything so bad on the windows side that made me want to consider a different OS.
We see reported here and elsewhere that Apple is increasing marketshare in its computer systems at a rate three or four times the industry average QoQ and YoY. And while there is still a lot of ground to claim in the smart mobile device market (especially smartphones), your "niche player" Apple has claimed 2/3s the profit out of the smartphone segment already and still keeps growing. 20% of that market is not a niche player by any reasonable accounting, but if it helps you feel good about yourself keep using the term. Given the number of people growing Apple's share of the PC market, I guess I can safely argue that (inspite of your personal experience) many people are in fact motivated to move from Windows PC to a Mac.
Despite all the talk, the ASUS US21 is not going to ship until September. ASUS completely missed the back-to-school season. Apple was much more timely with the goods, and as a result will benefit the most this year. And next year...Apple will likely have a refreshed MacBook Pro line to fend off the ultra-books.
hmm the problem with every bodies comparisons is the fact that these other non apple ultra books Don't have the same specs.
The ux31 from asus will have a core i7 while the 13 inch macbook air only has a core i5. The comparable macbook air to say the ux31 is only $1 cheaper.
They can make them cheaper then the airs if they use the same specs of the air.
Everybody is blasting pc makers here without comparing apples to apples. Full specs of the pc versions of the air have not been released . only processor , generic ssd included .
But from what has been released so far some of these models will go for at least the same price of a comparable air but have faster processors.
So i don't get how people Can bash these yet.
Also to reply to the person above me I posted this from a work supplied macbook pro and i find that osx does not improve my workflow. I find that windows is better for that.
Unfortunately, in many cases they won't use the same spec as the McBook Airs. Be sure you check the actually class of that core i7 - if it is one of the Celeron i7's then it has down-graded specs from the regular i7 and doesn't perform as well and costs much less. Intel has long provided OEM's a way out of direct competition by using the generic name (core i7 for example) while providing two different performance classes of the chipset - so the OEM can claim its a core i7, but pay for and install the Celeron core i7. The consumer is none the wiser, but gets a marginalized chip.
Let's not overlook the push to optical drive-less machines.
Quote:
Originally Posted by fecklesstechguy
Unfortunately, in many cases they won't use the same spec as the McBook Airs. Be sure you check the actually class of that core i7 - if it is one of the Celeron i7's then it has down-graded specs from the regular i7 and doesn't perform as well and costs much less. Intel has long provided OEM's a way out of direct competition by using the generic name (core i7 for example) while providing two different performance classes of the chipset - so the OEM can claim its a core i7, but pay for and install the Celeron core i7. The consumer is none the wiser, but gets a marginalized chip.
And then there are the different watt class chips. Those SFF 17W LV chips are slower than their 35W breathren at similar price points.
Well, a lot of people actually used AOL back in the day, and i mean used aol as an isp, not just coasters. They WERE the dominant isp in the 90s.
True, last i checked, iOS was used in more devices total than android. However, with the rate of activations ever climbing higher, it shouldnt be too long before android overtakes iOS in that. I doubt apple is concerned at all about this though. They seem pretty content on being a niche player, and i think this holds true for OSX as well.
My point was: free stuff that people do not use as intended does not equate to real marketshare. Otherwise, Purble Place (free with every copy of Windows) would be considered the top game on the PC, by marketshare. Ever hear of it?
The reported number of activated Android phones is very deceiving. If a significant fraction of Android devices are effectively used as dumb phones (say 30% here and higher in Asia), and up to 40% of activated Android phones are returned (compared to <2% for iPhones), that means iOS is, and will be for some time, the dominant SMARTPHONE platform. Not DUMBSMARTPHONES or RETURNEDSMARTPHONES marketshare - Android has those categories locked up.
Nowhere near 40% of activated android phones are returned. That entire rumor has already been debunked.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JONOROM
My point was: free stuff that people do not use as intended does not equate to real marketshare. Otherwise, Purble Place (free with every copy of Windows) would be considered the top game on the PC, by marketshare. Ever hear of it?
The reported number of activated Android phones is very deceiving. If a significant fraction of Android devices are effectively used as dumb phones (say 30% here and higher in Asia), and up to 40% of activated Android phones are returned (compared to <2% for iPhones), that means iOS is, and will be for some time, the dominant SMARTPHONE platform. Not DUMBSMARTPHONES or RETURNEDSMARTPHONES marketshare - Android has those categories locked up.
Unless Apple starts licensing copies of OSX out to computer manufacturers, Windows will never be history. You fail to realize also that most of the malware you complain of is due to the large numbers of Windows computers. As popularity of OSX increases so does vulnerability. Further, I would argue that many if not most of the new converts to OSX machines do not do so because the prefer the OSX operating system. They prefer the design of Apple products, which although expensive, are leaps and bounds beyond any competitor's products. If the machines were not so "pretty", you would not find so many people loving the product. Kudos to Apple for leading the way in design.
Quote:
Originally Posted by zunx
It is hard to believe how people can use such an anti-intuitive, awkward and malware-filled operating system as Windows is. Windows is basically maintained by inertia and ignorance.The day the Mac reaches 20% market share, Windows will be history in three years.
Unless something drastic happens with PC marketshare this form factor is eventually going to be outselling Airs 10 to 1.
Surely with that kind of demand, and PC OEM's all lining up behind the same Intel reference designs, there is going to be enough incentive to drastically increase production capacity for the required parts?
I don't think it will be near impossible to hit MBA price points in 2011, I think it will be impossible... however 2012 should be a different story.
I think that 10 to 1 ratio is misleading. You're comparing the entire PC market to Macs, including the cheapest PCs. Yes, on whole, the entire PC market may sell 10 PCs to 1 Mac, but this article is only discussing a single type of computer. The ultra portable, high quality, non-plastic, non-cheap, damn-that's-nice notebook. This is not a market driven entirely by price point. I don't think you can meet that 10 to 1 ration with only this single type of computer.
It is hard to believe how people can use such an anti-intuitive, awkward and malware-filled operating system as Windows is. Windows is basically maintained by inertia and ignorance.The day the Mac reaches 20% market share, Windows will be history in three years.
Personally, I disagree. I find Windows 7 to be just as capable and usable as MacOS X. I do admit finding MacOS more aesthetically pleasing. The Windows Aero window especially, is coyote ugly. And yes, there is way more malware aimed at Windows than Macs. But really, if you install an antivirus program - even the free one from Microsoft, refrain from using an admin account for day-to-day use, and deploy just a little common sense; viruses simply aren't that big a risk. Windows is going to be around for a long, long time.
1) Lame that as usual everyone copies Apple's design
2) More lame that Intel, the sole laptop/desktop provider of Apple is promoting it
(Shouldn't they like a shift away from Windows machines that may have AMD chips?)
Absolutely agreed that people really need to wake up about the crap that is Windows.
Personally, I'm happy to see manufacturer's copying Apple's designs. I find their hardware especially to be gorgeous. The aluminum MacBooks are seriously Pavlovian. It's about time the other manufacturer's recognized this and started building machines to match this quality. If for some reason I wanted a Windows laptop, I'd want it to be just as nice as an Apple laptop.
Windows is not crap. Why is it all or nothing with some folks. MacOS is great so any competing OS must be complete crap. That's just BS.
Not everyone can afford a Mac. A lot of businesses are too cheap/too reliant on MS Office & crappy IE-only web apps to buy Macs.
OSX will never be the dominate (in terms of marketshare) desktop OS for the same reasons that iOS will never be the dominate smartphone OS.
If you're going to call something crap, at least state why it's crap and not just assume everybody agrees with you and understands exactly what you're talking about. Web apps are crap? All of them? BS.
Hate sure is a strong word, but Intel should be concerned about Apple. This is partly because Apple has already proven that they're willing to walk away from a chip vendor (IBM and the PowerPC architecture) for something better. There is already rumors of moving away from Intel chips in their laptops to ARM-based systems. Intel should be concerned. But hate, not a chance. Apple is a big customer of Intel products.
What percentage are returned? Are those devices first activated by the user and therefore counted in Android's touted activation numbers?
Google is Highly Motivated to lie about activation numbers - how else would they suck in advertisers and developers? It is almost certain that their "activation" numbers include knock-off low-cost devices sold in Asia that (as reported) do not even include Google apps and may be no more than dumbphones.
And why would Google subtract the numbers of returned activated devices? Because they are not evil? In any case they probably do not have access to those numbers.
The 40% returns number by quote (from both the BGR report and my post) is "up to 40%". Are you really sure that there is no Android phone that gets returned at that rate? Different reports (all unsourced, BTW) indicate that 1) Android phone returns average in the low single digits (this is the same as the iPhone - do you really believe that?), 2) in the low double digits (more believable), and 3) up to 40%.
I think that 10 to 1 ratio is misleading. You're comparing the entire PC market to Macs, including the cheapest PCs. Yes, on whole, the entire PC market may sell 10 PCs to 1 Mac, but this article is only discussing a single type of computer. The ultra portable, high quality, non-plastic, non-cheap, damn-that's-nice notebook. This is not a market driven entirely by price point. I don't think you can meet that 10 to 1 ration with only this single type of computer.
Quote:
Originally Posted by KPOM
That assumes that PC manufacturers adopt the Ultrabook as their mainstream notebook format.
Today's cutting edge technology is tomorrows cheap PC right?
I'm certainly not talking about this year. I'm talking about next year (and probably even late next year).
Maybe the model won't be exactly the same as the MBA (it was previously mentioned that OEMs may go with a fiberglass chassis over magnesium-aluminum).
However the fundamentals for thinner lighter laptops are all there. i.e SSD's as standard, no longer the need for an optical drive, no need for a dedicated GPU, low power SoCs are good enough for "normal" users etc etc
Add to that the fact that Windows 8 system requirements are going to be less than Windows 7 and that Windows 8 laptops will be running on ARM SoC's as well as x86...
I'm pretty sure laptops that look like MBA's will be the norm and only people looking for "workstation/desktop replacements" and gamers will be lugging around the heavy laptops we have today.
Intel's target was 40% of notebooks will be in the "Ultrabook" category by the end of 2012. I think they are pretty close with that estimate.
By the end of 2013, who knows... it might be more like 90%
Today's cutting edge technology is tomorrows cheap PC right?
I'm certainly not talking about this year. I'm talking about next year (and probably even late next year).
Maybe the model won't be exactly the same as the MBA (it was previously mentioned that OEMs may go with a fiberglass chassis over magnesium-aluminum).
However the fundamentals for thinner lighter laptops are all there. i.e SSD's as standard, no longer the need for an optical drive, no need for a dedicated GPU, low power SoCs are good enough for "normal" users etc etc
Add to that the fact that Windows 8 system requirements are going to be less than Windows 7 and that Windows 8 laptops will be running on ARM SoC's as well as x86...
I'm pretty sure laptops that look like MBA's will be the norm and only people looking for "workstation/desktop replacements" and gamers will be lugging around the heavy laptops we have today.
Intel's target was 40% of books will be in the "Ultrabook" category by the end of 2012. I think they are pretty close with that estimate.
By the end of 2013, who knows... it might be more like 90%
You may be completely correct in your assessment of the future trends. I just know that the future is fluid and I wouldn't just assume something will be true tomorrow because it was true yesterday. (PC to Mac sales ratio).
And yes, there is way more malware aimed at Windows than Macs. But really, if you install an antivirus program - even the free one from Microsoft, refrain from using an admin account for day-to-day use, and deploy just a little common sense; viruses simply aren't that big a risk.
I've never seen a virus on a Mac, but I've never seen a virus on Windows 7 either.
I've seen one on Windows Vista prior to the service packs that involved the user visiting a porn site and clicking on "yes", "yes", "yes", "I agree" about 10 times to install a "codec" so they could view more porn.
Compare that to Windows XP which was like the seventh layer of virus hell. I swear a default XP install would pick up 10 drive-by viruses and rootkits before it even booted.
As well as making sure inexperienced Windows users have Security Essentials installed I also direct them toward IE9 as it consistently comes out in front in the malware blocking.
Comments
Well, a lot of people actually used AOL back in the day, and i mean used aol as an isp, not just coasters. They WERE the dominant isp in the 90s.
True, last i checked, iOS was used in more devices total than android. However, with the rate of activations ever climbing higher, it shouldnt be too long before android overtakes iOS in that. I doubt apple is concerned at all about this though. They seem pretty content on being a niche player, and i think this holds true for OSX as well.
On that subject, i dont think that many people are motivated to make the change to OSX from windows. I briefly had a macbook pro a few years ago, and while OSX was pretty good OS, it just didnt have any killer features that would tempt me to make the effort to convert, nor was there anything so bad on the windows side that made me want to consider a different OS.
We see reported here and elsewhere that Apple is increasing marketshare in its computer systems at a rate three or four times the industry average QoQ and YoY. And while there is still a lot of ground to claim in the smart mobile device market (especially smartphones), your "niche player" Apple has claimed 2/3s the profit out of the smartphone segment already and still keeps growing. 20% of that market is not a niche player by any reasonable accounting, but if it helps you feel good about yourself keep using the term. Given the number of people growing Apple's share of the PC market, I guess I can safely argue that (inspite of your personal experience) many people are in fact motivated to move from Windows PC to a Mac.
Not everyone can afford a Mac. A lot of businesses are too cheap/too reliant on MS Office & crappy IE-only web apps to buy Macs.
OSX will never be the dominate (in terms of marketshare) desktop OS for the same reasons that iOS will never be the dominate smartphone OS.
hmm the problem with every bodies comparisons is the fact that these other non apple ultra books Don't have the same specs.
The ux31 from asus will have a core i7 while the 13 inch macbook air only has a core i5. The comparable macbook air to say the ux31 is only $1 cheaper.
They can make them cheaper then the airs if they use the same specs of the air.
Everybody is blasting pc makers here without comparing apples to apples. Full specs of the pc versions of the air have not been released . only processor , generic ssd included .
But from what has been released so far some of these models will go for at least the same price of a comparable air but have faster processors.
So i don't get how people Can bash these yet.
Also to reply to the person above me I posted this from a work supplied macbook pro and i find that osx does not improve my workflow. I find that windows is better for that.
Unfortunately, in many cases they won't use the same spec as the McBook Airs. Be sure you check the actually class of that core i7 - if it is one of the Celeron i7's then it has down-graded specs from the regular i7 and doesn't perform as well and costs much less. Intel has long provided OEM's a way out of direct competition by using the generic name (core i7 for example) while providing two different performance classes of the chipset - so the OEM can claim its a core i7, but pay for and install the Celeron core i7. The consumer is none the wiser, but gets a marginalized chip.
Unfortunately, in many cases they won't use the same spec as the McBook Airs. Be sure you check the actually class of that core i7 - if it is one of the Celeron i7's then it has down-graded specs from the regular i7 and doesn't perform as well and costs much less. Intel has long provided OEM's a way out of direct competition by using the generic name (core i7 for example) while providing two different performance classes of the chipset - so the OEM can claim its a core i7, but pay for and install the Celeron core i7. The consumer is none the wiser, but gets a marginalized chip.
And then there are the different watt class chips. Those SFF 17W LV chips are slower than their 35W breathren at similar price points.
Well, a lot of people actually used AOL back in the day, and i mean used aol as an isp, not just coasters. They WERE the dominant isp in the 90s.
True, last i checked, iOS was used in more devices total than android. However, with the rate of activations ever climbing higher, it shouldnt be too long before android overtakes iOS in that. I doubt apple is concerned at all about this though. They seem pretty content on being a niche player, and i think this holds true for OSX as well.
My point was: free stuff that people do not use as intended does not equate to real marketshare. Otherwise, Purble Place (free with every copy of Windows) would be considered the top game on the PC, by marketshare. Ever hear of it?
The reported number of activated Android phones is very deceiving. If a significant fraction of Android devices are effectively used as dumb phones (say 30% here and higher in Asia), and up to 40% of activated Android phones are returned (compared to <2% for iPhones), that means iOS is, and will be for some time, the dominant SMARTPHONE platform. Not DUMBSMARTPHONES or RETURNEDSMARTPHONES marketshare - Android has those categories locked up.
My point was: free stuff that people do not use as intended does not equate to real marketshare. Otherwise, Purble Place (free with every copy of Windows) would be considered the top game on the PC, by marketshare. Ever hear of it?
The reported number of activated Android phones is very deceiving. If a significant fraction of Android devices are effectively used as dumb phones (say 30% here and higher in Asia), and up to 40% of activated Android phones are returned (compared to <2% for iPhones), that means iOS is, and will be for some time, the dominant SMARTPHONE platform. Not DUMBSMARTPHONES or RETURNEDSMARTPHONES marketshare - Android has those categories locked up.
Nowhere near 40% of activated android phones are returned. That entire rumor has already been debunked.
What percentage are returned? Are those devices first activated by the user and therefore counted in Android's touted activation numbers?
It is hard to believe how people can use such an anti-intuitive, awkward and malware-filled operating system as Windows is. Windows is basically maintained by inertia and ignorance.The day the Mac reaches 20% market share, Windows will be history in three years.
Why?
Unless something drastic happens with PC marketshare this form factor is eventually going to be outselling Airs 10 to 1.
Surely with that kind of demand, and PC OEM's all lining up behind the same Intel reference designs, there is going to be enough incentive to drastically increase production capacity for the required parts?
I don't think it will be near impossible to hit MBA price points in 2011, I think it will be impossible... however 2012 should be a different story.
I think that 10 to 1 ratio is misleading. You're comparing the entire PC market to Macs, including the cheapest PCs. Yes, on whole, the entire PC market may sell 10 PCs to 1 Mac, but this article is only discussing a single type of computer. The ultra portable, high quality, non-plastic, non-cheap, damn-that's-nice notebook. This is not a market driven entirely by price point. I don't think you can meet that 10 to 1 ration with only this single type of computer.
It is hard to believe how people can use such an anti-intuitive, awkward and malware-filled operating system as Windows is. Windows is basically maintained by inertia and ignorance.The day the Mac reaches 20% market share, Windows will be history in three years.
Personally, I disagree. I find Windows 7 to be just as capable and usable as MacOS X. I do admit finding MacOS more aesthetically pleasing. The Windows Aero window especially, is coyote ugly. And yes, there is way more malware aimed at Windows than Macs. But really, if you install an antivirus program - even the free one from Microsoft, refrain from using an admin account for day-to-day use, and deploy just a little common sense; viruses simply aren't that big a risk. Windows is going to be around for a long, long time.
1) Lame that as usual everyone copies Apple's design
2) More lame that Intel, the sole laptop/desktop provider of Apple is promoting it
(Shouldn't they like a shift away from Windows machines that may have AMD chips?)
Absolutely agreed that people really need to wake up about the crap that is Windows.
Personally, I'm happy to see manufacturer's copying Apple's designs. I find their hardware especially to be gorgeous. The aluminum MacBooks are seriously Pavlovian. It's about time the other manufacturer's recognized this and started building machines to match this quality. If for some reason I wanted a Windows laptop, I'd want it to be just as nice as an Apple laptop.
Windows is not crap. Why is it all or nothing with some folks. MacOS is great so any competing OS must be complete crap. That's just BS.
Not everyone can afford a Mac. A lot of businesses are too cheap/too reliant on MS Office & crappy IE-only web apps to buy Macs.
OSX will never be the dominate (in terms of marketshare) desktop OS for the same reasons that iOS will never be the dominate smartphone OS.
If you're going to call something crap, at least state why it's crap and not just assume everybody agrees with you and understands exactly what you're talking about. Web apps are crap? All of them? BS.
Why does Intel hate Apple?
Hate sure is a strong word, but Intel should be concerned about Apple. This is partly because Apple has already proven that they're willing to walk away from a chip vendor (IBM and the PowerPC architecture) for something better. There is already rumors of moving away from Intel chips in their laptops to ARM-based systems. Intel should be concerned. But hate, not a chance. Apple is a big customer of Intel products.
What percentage are returned? Are those devices first activated by the user and therefore counted in Android's touted activation numbers?
Google is Highly Motivated to lie about activation numbers - how else would they suck in advertisers and developers? It is almost certain that their "activation" numbers include knock-off low-cost devices sold in Asia that (as reported) do not even include Google apps and may be no more than dumbphones.
And why would Google subtract the numbers of returned activated devices? Because they are not evil? In any case they probably do not have access to those numbers.
The 40% returns number by quote (from both the BGR report and my post) is "up to 40%". Are you really sure that there is no Android phone that gets returned at that rate? Different reports (all unsourced, BTW) indicate that 1) Android phone returns average in the low single digits (this is the same as the iPhone - do you really believe that?), 2) in the low double digits (more believable), and 3) up to 40%.
I think that 10 to 1 ratio is misleading. You're comparing the entire PC market to Macs, including the cheapest PCs. Yes, on whole, the entire PC market may sell 10 PCs to 1 Mac, but this article is only discussing a single type of computer. The ultra portable, high quality, non-plastic, non-cheap, damn-that's-nice notebook. This is not a market driven entirely by price point. I don't think you can meet that 10 to 1 ration with only this single type of computer.
That assumes that PC manufacturers adopt the Ultrabook as their mainstream notebook format.
Today's cutting edge technology is tomorrows cheap PC right?
I'm certainly not talking about this year. I'm talking about next year (and probably even late next year).
Maybe the model won't be exactly the same as the MBA (it was previously mentioned that OEMs may go with a fiberglass chassis over magnesium-aluminum).
However the fundamentals for thinner lighter laptops are all there. i.e SSD's as standard, no longer the need for an optical drive, no need for a dedicated GPU, low power SoCs are good enough for "normal" users etc etc
Add to that the fact that Windows 8 system requirements are going to be less than Windows 7 and that Windows 8 laptops will be running on ARM SoC's as well as x86...
I'm pretty sure laptops that look like MBA's will be the norm and only people looking for "workstation/desktop replacements" and gamers will be lugging around the heavy laptops we have today.
Intel's target was 40% of notebooks will be in the "Ultrabook" category by the end of 2012. I think they are pretty close with that estimate.
By the end of 2013, who knows... it might be more like 90%
Nowhere near 40% of activated android phones are returned. That entire rumor has already been debunked.
Can you please cite references to the debunking?
Today's cutting edge technology is tomorrows cheap PC right?
I'm certainly not talking about this year. I'm talking about next year (and probably even late next year).
Maybe the model won't be exactly the same as the MBA (it was previously mentioned that OEMs may go with a fiberglass chassis over magnesium-aluminum).
However the fundamentals for thinner lighter laptops are all there. i.e SSD's as standard, no longer the need for an optical drive, no need for a dedicated GPU, low power SoCs are good enough for "normal" users etc etc
Add to that the fact that Windows 8 system requirements are going to be less than Windows 7 and that Windows 8 laptops will be running on ARM SoC's as well as x86...
I'm pretty sure laptops that look like MBA's will be the norm and only people looking for "workstation/desktop replacements" and gamers will be lugging around the heavy laptops we have today.
Intel's target was 40% of books will be in the "Ultrabook" category by the end of 2012. I think they are pretty close with that estimate.
By the end of 2013, who knows... it might be more like 90%
You may be completely correct in your assessment of the future trends. I just know that the future is fluid and I wouldn't just assume something will be true tomorrow because it was true yesterday. (PC to Mac sales ratio).
And yes, there is way more malware aimed at Windows than Macs. But really, if you install an antivirus program - even the free one from Microsoft, refrain from using an admin account for day-to-day use, and deploy just a little common sense; viruses simply aren't that big a risk.
I've never seen a virus on a Mac, but I've never seen a virus on Windows 7 either.
I've seen one on Windows Vista prior to the service packs that involved the user visiting a porn site and clicking on "yes", "yes", "yes", "I agree" about 10 times to install a "codec" so they could view more porn.
Compare that to Windows XP which was like the seventh layer of virus hell. I swear a default XP install would pick up 10 drive-by viruses and rootkits before it even booted.
As well as making sure inexperienced Windows users have Security Essentials installed I also direct them toward IE9 as it consistently comes out in front in the malware blocking.