Google fighting to suppress evidence Android willfully infringed upon Oracle's Java

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  • Reply 21 of 353
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ascii View Post


    How does the Go programming language fit in to this picture? If you look at the Go download page it says it can compile to ARM Linux (though not yet optimised). http://golang.org/doc/install.html



    I wonder if it is their long term fallback position if Java gets too expensive.



    The thing is, for the platform to succeed, you need apps (lots of them). For there to be apps, you need developers (again, lots of them).

    By basing your platform around a "free, but not widely adopted" programming language, you are effectively putting a hurdle on developers: learning curve, etc. Everybody is comfortable with what they already know. C# has wide adoption because, you know, we live in a Windows world. Java was really hyped in the nineties with its "Write Once, Run Everywhere" motto. Not that it mattered, since everyone has Windows anyway and mobile was non-existent then. But somehow it caught a following (it did prove useful in feature phones after all).

    (This opinion I give here is over-simplified and anyone with greater knowledge of the industry is invited to correct)





    The only company with products hot enough to force an unpopular programming language down developers' throats is... You guessed right: Apple.



    I should also add "The only company enlightened enough to build their mobile platform around compiled (NOT interpreted) code, given the resource constraints".



    BTW I'm loving Objective-C and never looking back. Namespaces? yuck!
  • Reply 22 of 353
    radjinradjin Posts: 165member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jd_in_sb View Post


    It's just a matter of time until Android becomes very expensive for handset makers to deploy. That makes Windows Phone 7 look a lot more attractive to them.



    Maybe they will all become unique and make their own software. Wouldn't that be a novel idea?
  • Reply 23 of 353
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ranReloaded View Post


    But somehow it caught a following (it did prove useful in feature phones after all).

    (This opinion I give here is over-simplified and anyone with greater knowledge of the industry is invited to correct)



    java is still pretty much the only game in town for building large enterprise level web application server architectures. Except for the phone space, blu-ray, and set-top boxes, Java lost the UI wars a long time ago.
  • Reply 24 of 353
    freerangefreerange Posts: 1,595member
    Google IS the new evil. Bring it on Google - they're ready and able to put you in you place and show what you truly are - a simple, slimy, knowing thief of others IP.
  • Reply 25 of 353
    dofodofo Posts: 7member
    "Oracle's case against Google continues to carry an October 31 trial date, which may push the companies toward a settlement. On the other hand, Oracle is unlikely to want to give up easily, and may push for a stay in the case for an opportunity to expand its damage claims. Additionally, Oracle could opt to bring action against Google before the ITC, where it could threaten to win an injection against the US import of Android phones, a bargaining technique that would be devastating to Google's mobile aspirations. "



    Oh - and by the way, Larry and Steve are best friends...maybe he plays extra hard with Google for they way the back stabbed Steve (and Apple).
  • Reply 26 of 353
    Let's not forget how Google ignored copyrights by publishing books for which they had no rights (a couple of them were mine for which I own the copyrights):



    Goggle settles Copyright Case.



    Copyright and patent infringement seem to be part of Google's standard business practices.



    Steve Kochan
  • Reply 27 of 353
    mdriftmeyermdriftmeyer Posts: 7,503member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ascii View Post


    It certainly started out as a back end language, but I was watching a talk by Rob Pike the other day where he said it has turned out to be more general purpose than they expected. And why would they be bothering with an ARM compiler at all if it was just for the back end?



    I'm not talking right now, but if push comes to shove with Oracle I wonder if it could have a touch GUI library added and migrate to the client side. Just a thought.



    Go is leveraging LLVM.
  • Reply 28 of 353
    matrix07matrix07 Posts: 1,993member
    Why am I not surprised (that Google is evil)?
  • Reply 29 of 353
    I figure Google should pay Pi billion in damages.
  • Reply 30 of 353
    alfiejralfiejr Posts: 1,524member
    Android's free ride will certainly come to an end next year. but an extra $50 license cost per phone is not going to make that big a difference in the market. and they'll find workarounds for Apple's stuff.



    so where does this lead?
  • Reply 31 of 353
    addaboxaddabox Posts: 12,664member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Alfiejr View Post


    Android's free ride will certainly come to an end next year. but an extra $50 license cost per phone is not going to make that big a difference in the market. and they'll find workarounds for Apple's stuff.



    so where does this lead?



    Plus $15 per phone to Microsoft, plus quite possibly reduced functionality if Apple wins (some of Apple's claims, such as rubber band scrolling, don't allow for workarounds-- it is what it is). And who knows who or what is waiting in the wings? As the Mueller article concludes, if this is Google's attitude toward Oracle, what does it suggest about their appropriation of other tech? And if they lose this case, wouldn't it embolden others to go after them?



    Google really does seem to have a penchant for simply taking what they want-- I'm not sure if it's just ruthlessness or if the founders have never progressed beyond their startup mentality and actually believe that they can play at being IP rogues while running a multi-billion dollar business.



    But at some point, if a series of judgements go against them, they're going to start to be perceived as reckless and sort of stupid. And that's a pretty big problem for an outfit like Google, whose entire business is based on the perception of infallibility.
  • Reply 32 of 353
    monstrositymonstrosity Posts: 2,234member
    Just got back from a stroll around Yosemite which was amazing, but this story just made my day
  • Reply 33 of 353
    9secondko9secondko Posts: 929member
    Pretty damning evidence.



    Googles mantra "don't be evil" seems to be what they tell others, but they obviously don't practice what they preach.



    Google used java to develop android regardless of the licensing fees they would have owed to Sun. Not to mention that they shouldn't have the right to develop the OS to begin with should Sun have denied their use.



    Google stealing tech from Sun and stealing ideas from Apple board meetings.



    "don't be evil" yeah right...



    Google should stick with search engines.



    As it is, chrome is s glorified mainframe thin client and android is a poor mans iOS.



    All the "apps" google comes out with seem to die off in a few years anyhow.



    No loss if or when android goes bye bye.
  • Reply 34 of 353
    sockrolidsockrolid Posts: 2,789member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post


    ... Oracle is unlikely to want to give up easily, and may push for a stay in the case for an opportunity to expand its damage claims. Additionally, Oracle could opt to bring action against Google before the ITC, where it could threaten to win an injunction against the US import of Android phones, a bargaining technique that would be devastating to Google's mobile aspirations.



    Oracle? Give up easily? Not in this universe.



    Larry Ellison's favorite quote is a saying by Genghis Khan: "It's not sufficient I succeed. Everyone else must fail."



    The impending ruling in Oracle's favor falls into the "succeed" category for Oracle. The "injunction against the US import of Android phones" would fall into the "fail" category for Google. And I'm expecting Oracle to make Android fail if possible. There is big money to be made, and Oracle will also want to set an example. To put Android's head on a stake as a warning.



    I'll be munching popcorn. This will be fun to watch.
  • Reply 35 of 353
    kozchriskozchris Posts: 209member
    google thieves. can't innovate so steal!
  • Reply 36 of 353
    philboogiephilboogie Posts: 7,671member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by lamewing View Post


    I am not a big fan of Apple (the company), but I am a fan of their hardware and software. So I have a love/hate relationship with Apple.



    After reading more and more about Google's actions I am seriously considering dumping everything Google in my life. Why does Google's action's bother me more than if another company were to to the same thing? Because of Google's motto "Don't be Evil". If they choose to use this motto (unofficial or not) I expect them to follow through.



    Transitioning to a Google-free life will not be an easy process. My email is 100% Google. One of my smart phones is a Sony Xperia X10a running Gingerbread. I use Google Voice/Google Docs/Google Maps/Google Translate...etc. My browser of choice on both Mac and PC is Chrome.



    All Google would have to do (for me) is to admit what they did wrong and then make the appropriate actions to fix the situation. Yes, it would cost money to pay the licences, but they should have done this long ago.



    I use search and maps. Only because I haven't seen any better options out there.
  • Reply 37 of 353
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Asmodai View Post


    java is still pretty much the only game in town for building large enterprise level web application server architectures. Except for the phone space, blu-ray, and set-top boxes, Java lost the UI wars a long time ago.



    Although I never really got into Java, I remember all the Swing hype...
  • Reply 38 of 353
    richlrichl Posts: 2,213member
    That last graphic is misleading and, knowing the author, intentionally so.



    Daniel is implying that there were no touchscreen-only smartphones on the market before 2007. About 50% of all Windows Mobile devices were touchscreen-only but Daniel has decided to put none in his graphic. Instead of showing popular models like the touchscreen-only HTC Magician, Daniel has instead chosen to show some of the more left field Windows Mobile devices - such as the HP iPAQ hw6965 Mobile Messenger. It's a very poor representation of the market before 2007.
  • Reply 39 of 353
    8002580025 Posts: 173member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post


    Apple's primary competitor in smartphone platforms is facing critical new evidence that indicates Google willfully infringed upon Java to develop Android, a finding that could damage Google's efforts to defend Android from additional patent claims from Apple and others.





    Google to the world: "Come on now folks, we're the 'good guys'. We wouldn't do anything like that. But we sure don't want anyone to view documentation to the contrary".
  • Reply 40 of 353
    cloudgazercloudgazer Posts: 2,161member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by RichL View Post


    That last graphic is misleading and, knowing the author, intentionally so.



    Daniel is implying that there were no touchscreen-only smartphones on the market before 2007. About 50% of all Windows Mobile devices were touchscreen-only but Daniel has decided to put none in his graphic. Instead of showing popular models like the touchscreen-only HTC Magician, Daniel has instead chosen to show some of the more left field Windows Mobile devices - such as the HP iPAQ hw6965 Mobile Messenger. It's a very poor representation of the market before 2007.



    Ok, assuming we allow phones with cursors and dedicated call buttons to be considered 'touch only' then the Magician was, but a single swallow doesn't make a summer. Do you have a link to some sales figures showing the 'touch only' devices were 50% of the WiMo space?
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