Google fighting to suppress evidence Android willfully infringed upon Oracle's Java

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  • Reply 41 of 353
    sflocalsflocal Posts: 5,942member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by RichL View Post


    That last graphic is misleading and, knowing the author, intentionally so.



    Daniel is implying that there were no touchscreen-only smartphones on the market before 2007. About 50% of all Windows Mobile devices were touchscreen-only but Daniel has decided to put none in his graphic. Instead of showing popular models like the touchscreen-only HTC Magician, Daniel has instead chosen to show some of the more left field Windows Mobile devices - such as the HP iPAQ hw6965 Mobile Messenger. It's a very poor representation of the market before 2007.



    Great... Another drive-by fabrication thrown out there in the hopes it sticks. What's a poor representation is your lack of providing any actual facts supporting your claim.
  • Reply 42 of 353
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Asmodai View Post


    java is still pretty much the only game in town for building large enterprise level web application server architectures. Except for the phone space, blu-ray, and set-top boxes, Java lost the UI wars a long time ago.





    Hmmm...



    Thinking out loud here.



    Back in the late 1990s I used to do web development using a system called ColdFusion.



    WIKI ColdFusion





    CF (ColdFusion):

    -- had both server and client-side aspects

    -- used a powerful HTML-like tag scripting language

    -- included a JavaScript-like scripting language too

    -- had JIT compiler to java bytecode

    -- could include imbedded Java code

    -- could run on the desktop -- even from a read-only CD

    -- ran on Win, 'Nix and OS X

    -- with proper authorization, could run OS commands at the ClI level

    -- supported all the major SQL databases (including embedded ones like SQLite)

    -- supported XML, RSS and Web Services

    -- used HTML to provide presentation services



    With CF it was very easy to write data-driven apps using very powerful high-level CF commands. You could write an app to search a database and display a report with 2 CF commands: CFQuery and CFOutput. No worries about opening and closing sessions, etc.



    All in All it was quite remarkable -- and generated compact, efficient apps for the computers of the day -- I used a 233 MHz iMac PPC G3, 32MB RAM, 4GB HDD



    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IMac_G3



    Hmm.... That iMac was significantly less powerful than any of today's smart phones.



    Today, ColdFusion is owned by Adobe and has a free developer version.



    I am no lover of Adobe, but I wonder if CF and Java could be used to develop native smart phone apps -- I know it can do web apps.
  • Reply 43 of 353
    cloudgazercloudgazer Posts: 2,161member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post


    I am no lover of Adobe, but I wonder if CF and Java could be used to develop native smart phone apps -- I know it can do web apps.



    Lots of things could be used, for example WebOS heavily leverages Javascript as I understand it, WP7 uses silverlight etc. You could probably build an entire phone based around mobile flash so long as you were focusing on the eskimo market - built in de-icing! The problem is that a platform switch for Android right now would be very very expensive to Google, to OEMs and to developers in the App ecosystem.



    If Google were to make a platform change then they would need to offer both technical and legal benefits to end users, because otherwise the simplest move for Android handset makers would probably be to cut their own deal with Oracle and fork Froyo to use a fully licensed Java system.



    Google might want to change their rendering layer for example to do something similar to Apple to facilitate GPU usage (see for example http://nfarina.com/post/8239634061/ios-to-android - courtesy of Daring Fireball)



    But think of how many years it took to develop Android, then figure where iOS and even windows mobile will be by the time they'd finished. Google has to either win these big suits or make a deal, and it seems it increasingly realizes it. Possibly it realizes it too late though.
  • Reply 44 of 353
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SockRolid View Post


    Oracle? Give up easily? Not in this universe.



    Larry Ellison's favorite quote is a saying by Genghis Khan: "It's not sufficient I succeed. Everyone else must fail."



    The impending ruling in Oracle's favor falls into the "succeed" category for Oracle. The "injunction against the US import of Android phones" would fall into the "fail" category for Google. And I'm expecting Oracle to make Android fail if possible. There is big money to be made, and Oracle will also want to set an example. To put Android's head on a stake as a warning.



    I'll be munching popcorn. This will be fun to watch.



    Seconded.
  • Reply 45 of 353
    apple ][apple ][ Posts: 9,233member
    I'm rooting for Oracle, Android people annoy me.
  • Reply 46 of 353
    drdoppiodrdoppio Posts: 1,132member
    Nice to read a moderate and well worded article by DED for a change.



    One thing I don't understand, why are they referring to draft documents as "e-mail"? Unless the message has been transmitted via the email protocol, it is no more an email than it is a fax or a fiction novel...
  • Reply 47 of 353
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jd_in_sb View Post


    It's just a matter of time until Android becomes very expensive for handset makers to deploy. That makes Windows Phone 7 look a lot more attractive to them.





    sounds like a winner! glad ms has found a way to force their way back in. nothing like REAL choice: MS or Apple.
  • Reply 48 of 353
    cloudgazercloudgazer Posts: 2,161member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by DrDoppio View Post


    Nice to read a moderate and well worded article by DED for a change.



    One thing I don't understand, why are they referring to draft documents as "e-mail"? Unless the message has been transmitted via the email protocol, it is no more an email than it is a fax or a fiction novel...



    Because it was written in an email system, the intent was that it would be an email and the final version was sent as an email - it's relevant because Google's argument that the document is privileged rests on the idea that the final version of the document was an email to counsel - but that the autosaved drafts didn't include the 'To list' so weren't flagged as privileged by the automated scanning system that they used.
  • Reply 49 of 353
    MacProMacPro Posts: 19,471member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by PhilBoogie View Post


    I use search and maps. Only because I haven't seen any better options out there.



    I agree. I have been hoping Apple would do maps at least for a long time. Google maps and Earth are very nice but prototype developments I have seen recently in the tech news show there are some major advances out there waiting for Apple to 'absorb'.



    Search ... I don't know if there is an alternative on the horizon, Bing sucks IMHO on a Mac at least. If Android were to be severely crippled by actually not being free any more not to mention back payments for all the free copies ever registered then is Google Search such a force any more going forward?



    Youtube still seems unchallenged, is there any potential repercussions from the Java wars there? Or is Youtube safe? So many questions ...
  • Reply 50 of 353
    MacProMacPro Posts: 19,471member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by screamingfist View Post


    sounds like a winner! glad ms has found a way to force their way back in. nothing like REAL choice: MS or Apple.



    If that scenario were to return the show down would be like Zune v iPod IMHO.
  • Reply 51 of 353
    zklauszzklausz Posts: 23member
    Ahhh Google, what a funny company. Most of us use at least one of their services on a daily basis. My friends and I have always been a little skeptical of Google and their desire to control all of the "information". There was always something a little funny about their motto "don't be evil". It would be like the Catholic Church having the motto "don't be a child molester". The fact that you even have to mention it is a big red flag in my book.
  • Reply 52 of 353
    cloudgazercloudgazer Posts: 2,161member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post


    I agree. I have been hoping Apple would do maps at least for a long time. Google maps and Earth are very nice but prototype developments I have seen recently in the tech news show there are some major advances out there waiting for Apple to 'absorb'.



    I want Baidu to extend their bizarre 'sim city' like maps system to the rest of the world - I would never use google maps again!



    http://map.baidu.com/?newmap=1&l=18&...26c%3D131&sc=0
  • Reply 53 of 353
    MacProMacPro Posts: 19,471member
    Partial Quote



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post


    Hmmm...



    Thinking out loud here.



    I am no lover of Adobe, but I wonder if CF and Java could be used to develop native smart phone apps -- I know it can do web apps.



    Can you imagine Adobe's approach to the smart phone market? (I kid here of course)



    You can either buy The Master Phone suite of phones that do everything for $1,800 or an individual phone each able to do one thing for $695. The suite offers the Adobe Call phone, the Adobe Mapping phone, the Adobe Message phone, the Adobe Game phone ... and so on ... each of the 27 phones in the suite all do a masterful job at their designed function and can be used stand alone. If you purchase the entire suite you also get the Adobe Systems Phone that integrates all functions seamlessly into a single phone cleverly communicating with the other phones via another phone called the Adobe Comms phone. Each phone always calls Adobe first to ensure you are the legal registrant of that phone before allowing any call or use of any kind. The entire suite will be updated yearly with high upgrade costs and minimal changes.
  • Reply 54 of 353
    MacProMacPro Posts: 19,471member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by cloudgazer View Post


    I want Baidu to extend their bizarre 'sim city' like maps system to the rest of the world - I would never use google maps again!



    http://map.baidu.com/?newmap=1&l=18&...26c%3D131&sc=0



    Love it! It makes me want to start building. All that's missing is the music.



    I saw a similar but actually far more realistic system from a scandinavian company a few days ago but I can't find the link.
  • Reply 55 of 353
    cloudgazercloudgazer Posts: 2,161member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post


    Love it! It makes me want to start building. All that's missing is the music.



    I saw a similar but actually far more realistic system from a scandinavian company a few days ago but I can't find the link.



    If you scroll around a bit you'll find the forbidden city which looks unbelievably bitching as pixel art
  • Reply 56 of 353
    MacProMacPro Posts: 19,471member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SockRolid View Post


    Oracle? Give up easily? Not in this universe.



    Larry Ellison's favorite quote is a saying by Genghis Khan: "It's not sufficient I succeed. Everyone else must fail."



    The impending ruling in Oracle's favor falls into the "succeed" category for Oracle. The "injunction against the US import of Android phones" would fall into the "fail" category for Google. And I'm expecting Oracle to make Android fail if possible. There is big money to be made, and Oracle will also want to set an example. To put Android's head on a stake as a warning.



    I'll be munching popcorn. This will be fun to watch.



    I bet the chat Steve and Larry had about this would have been fun to listen in on!
  • Reply 57 of 353
    hookoahookoa Posts: 4member
    Whatever became of Googles motto: "Do no evil"?
  • Reply 58 of 353
    tbelltbell Posts: 3,146member
    I am no Google fan and agree Google ignores IP, but the copying of books was a case where Google was in the right. Google was copying the books not to allow people to use them free (unless they were in the public domain). Google was creating a data base where people could search for information contained in books. It was a clear case of fair-use. Google likely would have helped sell some more books because people could have found books with information they sought.



    The government was more concerned not by the copying of the books, but of Google being the only party with access to the information.







    Quote:
    Originally Posted by skochan View Post


    Let's not forget how Google ignored copyrights by publishing books for which they had no rights (a couple of them were mine for which I own the copyrights):



    Goggle settles Copyright Case.



    Copyright and patent infringement seem to be part of Google's standard business practices.



    Steve Kochan



  • Reply 59 of 353
    esoomesoom Posts: 155member
    Google has been flirting with bad karma for a while, I think this time it's going to hurt.



    Even the Android fans are getting quieter as more and more comes to light about what Google has been doing.
  • Reply 60 of 353
    MacProMacPro Posts: 19,471member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by cloudgazer View Post


    If you scroll around a bit you'll find the forbidden city which looks unbelievably bitching as pixel art



    Ok got it. Now I just want to take my SL avi there for a walk around!
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