HP makes $100 TouchPad price cut permanent in bid for No. 2 spot in tablet space

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  • Reply 41 of 99
    alfiejralfiejr Posts: 1,524member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ash471 View Post


    RIM doesn't have a spot in anything and certainly not the Enterprise market. No business person is going to buy a tablet that doesn't have push email. Seriously, RIM's device was dead on arrival.



    i wuz thinking of the Blackberry of course, which is still widely deployed in enterprise because IT is so resistant to change. but yes the PlayBook is a total dog. that's why HP - which has extensive enterprise sales and services too - could take that whole market away from them with a top notch WebOS smartphone/tablet combo package optimized for business use. trying to chase the consumer market first instead is a bad mistake for HP because there they are going up against the two ton gorilla - Apple - and a large pack of (see and do) monkeys - Android - with their shady trainer - Google.



    Apple's support for enterprise is to encourage custom app development, on top of tight OS security (far better than Android) instead of offering its own package of enterprise services like MS and RIM do. that might prove a successful trend, or not, i really dunno how to size it up. and then there are the major business software companies like Oracle, which released a front end iPhone/iPad app for its most popular software two months ago. we'll have to see how widely it is used too, and how much others follow suit. think we'll ever see an Office app for iPad?
  • Reply 42 of 99
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ash471 View Post


    HP brings an interesting mix to the fray. They are behind Google in development and their phone business is almost non-existant, despite being in the market for quite some time. However, HP has enormous potential for manufacturing and distributing tablets. And, like Apple they have a combined hardware-software approach.



    Google has the opposite problem. They are further along in development (but not quality) and they have really good phone distribution. However, they have horrible prospects for tablet distribution. Google distributes through cell phone providers. When was the last time you logged onto ATT.com to buy a computer? And, the cell phone manufacturers have no experience making and selling PCs or the peripherals that go with them. Google also has a major problem with hardware optimization because their software isn't integrated, which means their software always feels half-baked when it is released. To boot, Google is under immense pressure from IP litigation and since they don't sell a product, they have to pass through the licensing costs.



    Microsoft has different problems. MS is really behind in development and MS takes an eternity trying to integrate software with their partners hardware (with mediocre success). However, MS has huge potential to partner with both tablet and phone manufacturers. If you take into account phone and tablet distribution MS is only second to Apple. MS's biggest problem is actually producing a product and making it work on real hardware in a reasonable timeframe. MS is so slow their partners will be selling last years model for the foreseeable future. Their software is so resource intensive a new device will feel like last years model even if it has this years cost.



    RIM is dead. The only thing they have done right is an integrated approach. RIM has strong (but dwindling) phone distribution channels, but no phone to distribute. RIM has a mediocre tablet at best; but even if they could produce a good tablet, they have no place to distribute a tablet. The only interesting thing about RIM is whether someone will buy it or whether it will go belly up and sell off its assets.



    HP has potential, but their problem is that they will get caught in the middle. They can't take the low end becaues there will always be a cottage industry of non-integrated manufacturers that reduce profits to nothing. They won't be able to beat Apple on the high end and they won't be able to beat the malware sold at the low end. At best they help Apple by beating up the low end, which is what is going to happen with the $100 price reduction.



    The next quantum leap by Apple is to tie the phone, tablet, and PC together with iCloud (and the iPod). Here again, Apple is the only one poised to make such a move. Apple is the only one with major distribution in phones, tablets, and PCs that can be seamlessly synced.



    I predict the move to iCloud is where Apple will leave Google in the dust. Google's approach to the cloud is just dead wrong. Nobody wants to be dependent on an internet connection. They just want their devices synced up (and maybe backed up) when their internet connection is available. Google's cloud is beneficial if you have poor computer performance, and you have a really really fast and reliable Internet connection for all your devices. Apple's Cloud is usefull if you have good computing power and poor internet service. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out who is going to win this one. Google lost before they started.



    Interestingly, the cloud is where MS could come back. MS has the capability of partnering with PC, Phone, and Tablet manufacturers. Also, HP is strong in this category because they have the strongest PC precense of anyone and they have an integrated approach. If people demand syncing between all their devices who better than HP to provide an integrated approach. Interestingly, the best positioned competitor right now (Google) looks to be the worst positioned competitor in the cloud wars. All I can say is Google better adapt quickly or they are going to get hammered. Maybe Apple will play its cards correctly and keep HP, MS, and Google at each other's throat while Apple syncs up the world to an array of Apple devices.



    Any way you look at it, Apple is the clear winner in the near term. Apple has an integrated approach that gives them speed to market and high performance. Apple has a killer phone, killer phone distribution, a killer tablet, and killer tablet distribution channels and the ability to tie it all together. Apple's biggest risk is that they are conciously choosing not to sell to the low end market. If Apple doesn't sell to the low end market and the low end market subsumes the rest of the market.........good bye Apple. This has nothing to do with who is servicing the low end market (Google or MS). It will simply be the consequence of servicing a market that disappears. Hopefully it won't happen and/or Apple will adapt.



    Should be interesting.



    Hey, nice analysis. There are points I agree with as well as those that I don't, but still, nice analysis.

    On the other hand, saying RIM is dead and their only options are to go belly up or being sold is very premature I think. Unless I'm wrong (if I am, then your scenario is probably close to being true), although their business is going downwards and they may be bleeding money right now, they still have, last I heard, a huge supply of $$$ from when they were making a killing. So assuming they make the right moves, they could get out of their trail spin to survive.
  • Reply 43 of 99
    The number two head band should never be under estimated.
  • Reply 44 of 99
    successsuccess Posts: 1,039member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


    I fail to see how selling a product at a loss per unit can be made up "in volume".



    Maybe it's audio volume. If we sell enough, the world will hear us!
  • Reply 45 of 99
    tt92618tt92618 Posts: 444member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Applecation View Post


    I hate to see Palm go down in flames, but I have serious doubts about HP understanding the consumer market, and bringing a quality product along with a great ecosystem, such as Apple has accomplished.

    Are we going to see a multimedia powerhouse like iTunes, or the 3rd party support available anywhere you go for an HP tablet? Not likely.

    I wish them luck, but I won't be helping them get there.



    While I agree that HP has a lot of work to do in order to compete head to head with Apple, HP has the makings of the most serious contender in that role. You forget that Android doesn't have any of those things either, and still manages to outsell iOS devices. I realize that there are many factors at work there, but the point is that HP doesn't have to compete with Apple to succeed, they just have to compete with Android... and I would suggest that is an area where they can win hands down.



    HP has, first of all, a very well designed OS that is in many ways an equal to iOS. I'm not sure you could do a direct comparison between iOS and WebOS and tick off avery marker on both sides, but WebOS is highly polished and refined, and is light years ahead of Android.



    Second, the developer SDK and tools for WebOS are far more advanced than Android's. As a matter of fact, the Enyo framework is an amazing accomplishment, and it makes building complex apps almost absurdly easy. It's amazing, and honestly I haven't seen anything that is its equal, even within xCode (dev environment for MacOS / iOS). Android deserves special attention here for just how rotten its development environment is. 'Liability' doesn't even begin to describe the function it performs in developing software for Android devices - it punishes developers and makes developing for the platform a joyless task.



    This is a bold move for HP, and signals that they are willing to take risk to establish a presence. New hardware is almost certainly in the offing, and I have to assume it will correct many of the complaints people have about the TouchPad (many of which HP has already addressed with version 3.0.2 of their OS.) Given that, I think its very foolish to write off HP - I think in fact they will have to make a stunning error to NOT come out in the number two slot.
  • Reply 46 of 99
    Yes, it is sad that HP has to downshift like this and doesn't make them look very good.



    BUT... if they can get to #2 that's still a big success for them. Without question everyone wants to be #1, but I am sure Burger King and Pepsi are making a ton of money and quite happy at #2.
  • Reply 47 of 99
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mesomorphicman View Post


    BUT... if they can get to #2 that's still a big success for them. Without question everyone wants to be #1, but I am sure Burger King and Pepsi are making a ton of money and quite happy at #2.



    BUT... if the market is broken up based on all models, rather than grouped by companies, and if Apple release the iPad 3, then the race will be for place #4, since iPad 3, 2 & 1 would be #s 1, 2 & 3!
  • Reply 48 of 99
    blastdoorblastdoor Posts: 1,928member
    I'll guess WebOS has at most 2 years before HP gives up and goes crawling back to Microsoft.
  • Reply 49 of 99
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mesomorphicman View Post




    BUT... if they can get to #2 that's still a big success for them. Without question everyone wants to be #1, but I am sure Burger King and Pepsi are making a ton of money and quite happy at #2.



    All this talk about HP wanting to be #2....



    Have we forgotten about Android?



    Even if no single Android tablet sells well.... the sheer number of them will add up...
  • Reply 50 of 99
    Shooting for number two. That's always the way to go to get ahead.
  • Reply 51 of 99
    quadra 610quadra 610 Posts: 6,744member
    HP: Competing the wrong way.



    These guys will never learn.



    A lousy product . . . is now a *cheaper* lousy product.



    Next!
  • Reply 52 of 99
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Smallwheels View Post


    If the hardware is good on the HP then is the only problem with the software? Sure a plastic case isn't as good as metal but the insides are what count. Does the touch screen work well and look good? If it does and the internals are made of quality parts the the Touchpad will be a great device once the software is improved.



    Uh Huh! So many if's in your equation.... Well I think I stick to my iPad.
  • Reply 53 of 99
    MacProMacPro Posts: 18,293member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by MikeSmoke View Post


    Heck, iPad 1 still rocks. iPad 2 rocks even harder. And iPad 3 is right around the corner. Competitors do not seem to have much of a chance. Maybe the competitors could switch over to a new product, like washing machines. But imagine, just imagine, if Apple started designing cars! They would be the most efficient and last forever. The only reason to upgrade would be to obtain more efficiency, and longer life.



    Usually the talk is about the electronics not the actual hardware ... I have been saying for a long time iOS should be used in all sorts of things from microwaves to fridges. In fact all those things should simply be networked wirelessly and controlled by any iOS or OS X device on the same network.



    Having said that a car by Apple might be nice, I'm guessing a lot of glass and aluminum
  • Reply 54 of 99
    MacProMacPro Posts: 18,293member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post


    HP: Competing the wrong way.



    These guys will never learn.



    A lousy product . . . is now a *cheaper* lousy product.



    Next!



    That worked for Windows PCs and VHS tape decks so I guess HP hope they can repeat history. I'm hoping this time quality does win out and so far so good ...
  • Reply 55 of 99
    MacProMacPro Posts: 18,293member
    Partial Quote



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ash471 View Post


    Any way you look at it, Apple is the clear winner in the near term. Apple has an integrated approach that gives them speed to market and high performance. Apple has a killer phone, killer phone distribution, a killer tablet, and killer tablet distribution channels and the ability to tie it all together. Apple's biggest risk is that they are conciously choosing not to sell to the low end market. If Apple doesn't sell to the low end market and the low end market subsumes the rest of the market.........good bye Apple. This has nothing to do with who is servicing the low end market (Google or MS). It will simply be the consequence of servicing a market that disappears. Hopefully it won't happen and/or Apple will adapt.



    Should be interesting.



    I agree Apple need to not lose sight of the low end but remember iPad is replacing PC usage for many. As you correctly describe in the rest of your post the key thing Apple is about to do is set THE standard for seamless integration via the cloud in a way no other vendor can. Once done I suspect Apple have more products up their sleeves to hook into this. Hopefully some will be at the lower end of the price range.
  • Reply 56 of 99
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by cloudgazer View Post


    Well it's not like people will be buying Apps for their printers. WebOS on printers may improve the UI on multifunction devices, but it won't increase the size of the platform anymore than iOS in ATV currently does.



    I can imagine that HP's printer drivers will allow special functions with additional apps. Printers often have screens these days, and making them touchscreens would be trivial.



    A few ideas: An app to allow printing after-hours, for those big jobs that otherwise monopolize a shared office printer. Preemptive multitasking printers that allow you to interrupt a big job, print off a few pages, and then seamlessly restart the big job. Newspaper apps that print in the middle of the night and present you with customized versions when you wake up in the morning. Mapping apps that calculate and print long routes in a good format, like the old AAA "TripTicks".



    Printers need not be dumb add-ons to computers. If they run a nice lightweight OS, they can be much more useful.
  • Reply 57 of 99
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by massconn72 View Post


    Shooting for number two. That's always the way to go to get ahead.



    Apple seems to be doing pretty well with OSX in second place, far, far behind Windows.
  • Reply 58 of 99
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Aizmov View Post


    webOS has the potential for greatness, not only on smartphones and tablets but it could also work on notebooks and desktops, however does HP has the will to see it through?

    I really wish HP all the success with the TouchPad, it could have been much better but they fell short, the hardware is just too plasticky and flimsy.



    Yes! Like Apple, HP seems to understand that many of the benefits of a Mobile OS and a Mobile UI are applicable to other form factors,



    Its funny that I still need to stop myself from reaching up and touching the screen of my iMac or Cinema Display.



    I don't think that the ergonomics of a vertical touch display are good for most tasks... but for some things...



    I don't use a laptop anymore -- an iPad satisfies my mobile needs,



    I do use a Magic Mouse or a Magic Track Pad on my iMacs. I like them better than a normal mouse -- but each is vaguely inadequate, unsettling.



    What I hope to see is the iPad evolve so that it can be used as an horizontal control surface for the desktop -- possibly replacing mouse, keyboard and graphics tablet.
  • Reply 59 of 99
    apple ][apple ][ Posts: 8,680member
    This price cut reeks of desperation and a management that doesn't know what they're doing. They priced their product too high to begin with. It was never a viable competitor to the iPad, regardless of the price. And when I saw the TouchPad on Woot last week, I just had to LOL.



    I almost feel sorry for all of the morons who buy these flop tablets for full price (Xoom, Touchpad etc.), only to have the price drastically reduced a few weeks afterwards.



    At least when somebody buys an Apple product, you know damn well that you won't be seeing it on Woot 1 month after it gets released.
  • Reply 60 of 99
    gqbgqb Posts: 1,934member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dlux View Post


    Fast User Switching. Flash lamps on camera-phones. Multi-button mice. iOS 5 integrated notification. Ebooks.



    Perhaps you've heard of them?





    Not everything Apple does is necessarily their own original idea or motivated internally. Competition - good competition - benefits you whether you want to acknowledge it or not.



    1) none of those apply to iPad, which was my point. Apple didnt invent intermittent wipers either if it makes you feel better.

    2) I can make just as good a point that all of your examples are of things that were customer, not competitor, driven.

    3) multi button mouse??!! please.
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