HP makes $100 TouchPad price cut permanent in bid for No. 2 spot in tablet space



  • Reply 61 of 99
    Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

    Having said that a car by Apple might be nice, I'm guessing a lot of glass and aluminum

    But I want mine in matte!
  • Reply 62 of 99
    freerangefreerange Posts: 1,589member
    The marketplace is littered with fools like HP. Making bad business decisions and cutting their prices so thin they can barely make money. Of course, that has been the PC model for decades. Keep it up boys... you're brilliant and oh so innovative...
  • Reply 63 of 99
    Originally Posted by AppleLover2 View Post

    Apple seems to be doing pretty well with OSX in second place, far, far behind Windows.

    Right... HP is able to get the same margins as Apple...
  • Reply 64 of 99
    Originally Posted by ash471 View Post

    HP brings an interesting mix to the fray. They are behind Google in development and their phone business is almost non-existant, despite being in the market for quite some time. However, HP has enormous potential for manufacturing and distributing tablets. And, like Apple they have a combined hardware-software approach.


    Any way you look at it, Apple is the clear winner in the near term. Apple has an integrated approach that gives them speed to market and high performance. Apple has a killer phone, killer phone distribution, a killer tablet, and killer tablet distribution channels and the ability to tie it all together. Apple's biggest risk is that they are conciously choosing not to sell to the low end market. If Apple doesn't sell to the low end market and the low end market subsumes the rest of the market.........good bye Apple. This has nothing to do with who is servicing the low end market (Google or MS). It will simply be the consequence of servicing a market that disappears. Hopefully it won't happen and/or Apple will adapt.

    Should be interesting.

    Excellent analysis.

    The only issue i have is with: "If Apple doesn't sell to the low end market and the low end market subsumes the rest of the market.........good bye Apple. "

    I think that when Apple redefined the tablet market, they set bar in two ways:

    1) quality, capability and desireability -- very high

    2) price -- very low

    It appears that Apple learned a lesson from tho initial pricing of the iPhone.

    Now, 18 months after announce and 16 months after initial release -- the iPad still dominates the market. The second iteration maintaining the same price as the first.

    The only potential competitor (Sammy 10") is a blatant copy of the iPad. Yet even that, likely, would not provide major competition -- as it lacks the integrated OS, the apps and the ecosystem of the iPad.

    My point is that I believe, with its quality and pricing -- Apple has defined the low end,

    Take a $250+ bag of parts, pay someone to assemble, package, warehouse, distribute, sell and support it -- where's the beef? (profit/incentive).

    Then, even if you are successful (losing money on the beef) -- where's the fries? (apps/desirability).

    Another year, or so, of this (plus iOS 5, iCloud, iPad 3) and there won't be any low[er] end market...

    Paraphrasing Pogo: We have met the low end -- and they are us!
  • Reply 65 of 99
    Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

    Paraphrasing Pogo: We have met the low end -- and they are us!

    You're dating yourself again, Dick...
  • Reply 66 of 99
    Originally Posted by TBell View Post

    Some good points. HP, however, has two other advantages that should not be underrated. First, it has a huge patent portfolio. HP isn't going to get squeezed like Google's hardware manufactures. Eventually there will be a day of reckoning for Android manufacturers. Some might even prefer licensing WebOS from HP, as HP has said it is open to the possibility. Apple will not sue HP as the companies respect each other (HP even sold an HP branded iPod at one point).

    Second, HP can take an Apple approach like when Apple released OSX for the first time. It can preinstall WebOS on dual boot computers while having a familiar OS like Windows as the default. That is a huge customer base. This will allow customers to play with the OS and become accustomed to it. Unlike Microsoft, HP can afford a slow start with WebOS.

    I see HP as the strongest challenger to Apple if HP can hold it together and play its cards right. With that said, I played with the HP Tablet. Currently, it isn't worth the money even with the discount compared to the iPad.

    Very good points!

    The one that has the most potential, IMO, is the pre-installation of WebOS on its line of computers and servers.

    I added servers to that list, intentionally -- even though [especially because] they are headless.

    What's to prevent Apple or HP from building hardware that contains both Intel and ARM chips?

    Then, instead of dual-boot, you have [parts of] both OSes running concurrently -- tap, click or swipe and the desired UI/capability activates.

    The tablet (through something like AirPlay) becomes the powerful UI for any headless printer or server in a server farm.

    OS X Lion is a hybrid UI between iPad and Mac...

    I like what I see so far, and can think of lots of possibilities within the Mac itself -- but especially for close-interfacing intelligent multitouch display/control/entry devices. I want to be able to grab objects on the iMac or HDTV display and drag them to the iPad and vice-versa.

    It could even get to the point where HP decides not to go it alone, and contracts someone else to provide the WebOS tablet component (ala HP reselling the iPod).

    ...'Course, they'd need to be aware of "Stealin' Sammy" lurking in the weeds
  • Reply 67 of 99
    Originally Posted by cubicpixel View Post

    The number two head band should never be under estimated.

    I agree!

    But striving to be #2 isn't much of a motivator -- Like saying you want to win the Olympic Silver Medal!

    ...Or even worse -- we want to be in second place in the World Series.

    It would have been better had he said something like:

    1) We intend to be a long-term player in this market.

    2) Our introductery TouchPad establishes HP as an entrant

    3) We have additional products in development to help us attain the #2 position by Year End 20xx.

    4) Then... Who can say? Give me a place to stand, and I can...

    ...Kisses for everyone

    P.S. XOM called -- they want 1st place back!

    Oops... Trading of XOM has been halted -- last I looked it was up 2.5% while AAPL is up 1.4%
  • Reply 68 of 99
    dluxdlux Posts: 666member
    Originally Posted by GQB View Post

    1) none of those apply to iPad, which was my point.

    Ebooks. Have you heard of them?


    2) I can make just as good a point that all of your examples are of things that were customer, not competitor, driven.

    So much for pursuing this argument...
  • Reply 69 of 99
    Originally Posted by island hermit View Post

    You're dating yourself again, Dick...

    Yes, we are...

    Well... nobody I ask will date me
  • Reply 70 of 99
    cloudgazercloudgazer Posts: 2,161member
    Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

    What's to prevent Apple or HP from building hardware that contains both Intel and ARM chips?

    Efficiency considerations essentially. Suppose you stuck an ARM chip into an MBP in addition to the existing hardware, it would give minimal advantages because its raw power is so much less than the existing CPU. GIven that Apple already has a way to compile iOS applications for OS-X in native x86 there's no benefit.

    Sticking an Intel chip into an iPad in addition to the A5 is even worse. Whenever it's engaged your battery life is ruined, and worse you suddenly need to introduce an active cooling system which will add volume, weight and attendant reliability issues.
  • Reply 71 of 99
    xsuxsu Posts: 401member
    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

    I fail to see how selling a product at a loss per unit can be made up "in volume".

    That's a business people joke.

    staffer: Sir, we are losing money on this product.

    Executive: yeah, but we'll make it up in volume.
  • Reply 72 of 99
    gqbgqb Posts: 1,934member
    Originally Posted by Dlux View Post

    So much for pursuing this argument...

    Aw, darnit! I was looking forward to hearing more about how multi-button mice represent the wonders brought to us by competition.

    PS... Looking back at your post, I see you did clarify 'competition' with the qualifier 'good'.

    I guess we're not that far apart after all. I just don't think there's any 'good' competition out there, and that Apple is progressing on integrity, not fear.
  • Reply 73 of 99
    Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

    The 16GB Wi-Fi TouchPad is now priced eat $399.99

    What are you implying? Apple is eating HP's lunch? HP's profit is getting eaten up?

    Sometimes typos are fun.
  • Reply 74 of 99
    Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

    Usually the talk is about the electronics not the actual hardware ... I have been saying for a long time iOS should be used in all sorts of things from microwaves to fridges. In fact all those things should simply be networked wirelessly and controlled by any iOS or OS X device on the same network.

    Having said that a car by Apple might be nice, I'm guessing a lot of glass and aluminum

    Ya' know...

    A guy by the name of Mike Markkula started a little company named Echelon some years ago...

    His initial goal was to network and communicate with dumb devices (lamps, switches, alarms, etc.) over the power lines within a house or enterprise. The theory was that each device/capability would have an unique address which could be monitored/controlled by an inexpensive computer on the same power line.

    There have been various attempts by Echelon (and others) to use power lines as high speed data networks -- with many problems and limited success.

    The reason I bring this up is that it would be fairly easy to add an inexpensive intelligent sensor inside a dumb device like a fridge, freezer, microwave or a furnace -- where wireless cannot go.

    The sensor could communicate through the power line to something (like an AirPort Express or AppleTV) and provide things like temperature, power consumption, etc. to a computing device on the same wireless network (or just an app running on the AppleTV).

    In many cases, the computing device could communicate back over the power line to, say remove power from an overheating device, unlock the doors and windows in case of a fire...

    Until the industries develop standards for smart fridges, microwaves, furnaces, etc. -- this approach could fill the void between dumb devices (or isolated intelligent devices) and (one or more) centralized computers to monitor and control them.

    Over the years we've had several Freezer failures that would have easily paid for such a system.

    The other thing is the green aspect -- if you can monitor devices, then control their power consumption you can reduce, schedule and stabilize your power consumption.

    Kinda' like not flushing the toilet when someones in the shower.

    Seriously, you can greatly reduce your power costs -- and the power company can reduce/balance their consumption of precious resource,

    In the 1980s, supermarkets used "power shedders" for their lighting, heating and freezers -- to reduce power use in off hours.

    It was a very big deal!

    In the summer our power bill usual runs north of $450 per month for 2-3 months -- We already have iPads... so an app and some inexpensive power line devices....
  • Reply 75 of 99
    Originally Posted by AppleLover2 View Post

    I can imagine that HP's printer drivers will allow special functions with additional apps. Printers often have screens these days, and making them touchscreens would be trivial.

    A few ideas: An app to allow printing after-hours, for those big jobs that otherwise monopolize a shared office printer. Preemptive multitasking printers that allow you to interrupt a big job, print off a few pages, and then seamlessly restart the big job. Newspaper apps that print in the middle of the night and present you with customized versions when you wake up in the morning. Mapping apps that calculate and print long routes in a good format, like the old AAA "TripTicks".

    Printers need not be dumb add-ons to computers. If they run a nice lightweight OS, they can be much more useful.

    Uhh... don't mean to pick on you, but what's a newspaper or a map... there are already apps for those.
  • Reply 76 of 99
    Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

    I almost feel sorry for all of the morons who buy these flop tablets for full price (Xoom, Touchpad etc.), only to have the price drastically reduced a few weeks afterwards.

    Where the competition is missing the boat, IMO, is the naming of their devices...

    What does A Xoom do? or a Galaxy? or a PlayBook?

    Someone needs name their device the "Suppository Tablet"....

    Yeah, you'll know exactly what to do with it!
  • Reply 77 of 99
    Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

    Someone needs name their device the "Suppository Tablet"....

    Yeah, you'll know exactly what to do with it!

    ... and then they can say...

    ... wait for it...

    "There's an ass for that!"
  • Reply 78 of 99
    jasenj1jasenj1 Posts: 916member
    HP is very big in the enterprise, business, vertically integrated markets - e.g. hospitals.

    They also make a lot of their money from consulting, not just hardware sales.

    If they can get the TouchPad and WebOS into the hands of more consumers and decision making folks, then they may be able to attract developers, and provide an attractive solution to their enterprise customers. If they can prove to businesses that the platform is viable, then they can sell devices with profit making add-ons.

    I'd also be interested to know what their app-store numbers look like. As others mentioned game consoles & games, it's worth selling the hardware at a loss if you can make enough profit to cover the loss in other ways.

    I wish HP luck.
  • Reply 79 of 99
    mhiklmhikl Posts: 471member
    Mr DiFranco sounds like a realist. So refreshing from bombastic Ballmer!

    I appreciate that he seem to give Apple the respect and credit it has earned.

    However, how can his company make any coin. I believe when you hawk your jewels at Walmart or BestBuy, you get back only half the returns of your own market price? If so, cost to make isn't covered and loss not profit becomes your gain.

    Oops! Forgot I'd posted much the same before. Still stymied, though glad to complement SD.
  • Reply 80 of 99
    Originally Posted by AppleLover2 View Post

    Apple seems to be doing pretty well with OSX in second place, far, far behind Windows.

    Sure, if you are making money at it, who cares if you're #2 or #X.

    The problem with HP - which you seem to be ignoring - is whether and how they can make money at it with the price cut. Losing money and being #2 is not a good place to be is the the general drift of this thread, if you get the drift.....
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