Yeah, that is a Thunderbolt port which makes sense as Intel designed the tech.
Yeah, it's a bad teaser video. Seems like they are marketing toward the same people buying Droids. I'm surprised it didn't transform. It's one explosion away from being directed by Michael Bay.
My original impression is that we would start to see some pretty huge mergers on the PC OEM front over the next few years (i.e. ASUS+Acer+Lenovo, HP+Dell etc) and we still might, but this offers an alternative.
One thing is for sure... something has to give. There is no way PC OEM's can hope to compete with Apple's economies of scale as the PC industry gets more mobile.
In any case, word on the street is that this isn't simply a move by Intel to "blur the lines between traditional notebooks and tablets" but to quite literally make a tablet.
Watch for Intel to make a relatively reserved push toward Windows 7 ultraportables next year, a pretty big splash with Win8 at the end of 2012 and throw everything they have behind Windows 8 ultraportables/transformers/tablets with Haswell in 2013.
I can't imagine they would be bitter about it. Apple know as well as anyone the position that Intel have been placed in because of ARM.
ARM goes against Atom. Intel stepping into the Macbook Air category goes directly at Apple.
ARM goes against Atom. Intel stepping into the Macbook Air category goes directly at Apple.
Apple won't be thrilled.
Intel needs to get into the "tablet" space. Atom or ULV Core isn't going to cut it.
This Ultrabook play is like touching your nose by circling your hand around your head.
Intel needs to get into ARM in a big way. Wouldn't they love to fab even more Apple chips? Apple notwithstanding, they can't keep ignoring ARM. Not in this business and economic climate.
The next MacBook Airs could easily be AMD. In a few years they will be ARM. That is inevitable.
Depends on the company. Asus makes the best prebuilt systems right now (yeah they are better then macs quality wise) so I believe they will place some high quality parts in it. Hp and dell may as well market them as high end paper weights because that's exactly what they will be.
Intel needs to get into ARM in a big way. Wouldn't they love to fab even more Apple chips? Apple notwithstanding, they can't keep ignoring ARM. Not in this business and economic climate.
Building ARM chips makes about as much economic sense for Intel as building Windows PCs would for Apple. The problem is that the margin is a fraction of what they make on their own designs. Intel has the best process tech, and could perhaps get a slight premium over other foundries if they entered that business, but it wouldn't even come close to the premium on their x86 processors.
Quote:
The next MacBook Airs could easily be AMD. In a few years they will be ARM. That is inevitable.
It's been a while since I followed AMD closely, but they didn't used to have mobile offerings that could really compete with Intel. Has that changed? As for ARM in the Air, maybe one day - but I don't expect to see it until we have 64bit ARM processors, and that's still some ways off.
Intel supplies the R&D and economy of scale for a milled chassis which will help vendors compete with Apple moving forward whilst giving Intel a solid hold on their CPU market as ARM keeps stepping up. Sounds like a good plan to me.
I do wonder how Apple feels about Intel giving all their competition a leg up.
It is staggering really. Intel is stating with its wallet that the only way for others to compete with Apple is for them to all work together and copy Apple's designs. No innovation, no new paradigms, simply blindly copy Apple's lead to survive. Not a good sign for their collective futures.
This also says to me says Intel sees Apple dropping Intel chips in the future and they simply have no choice even if it might accelerate that very process. Apple is only a year or two away from their own chips across all products IMO. I only worry about VMs in that respect and that is becoming less important everyday that goes by for most. I don't know enough about that to know if VMWare could ever run Windows on an A6 or whatever. Perhaps certain Macs could come with an option of an Intel Chip included as a second CPU just for VMs?
Your optimism is interesting, but possibly misplaced. A MacBook Air is not just about the form factor. That said, why can't you just buy the latest MacBook Air and install Windows BootCamp on it? Most employers are really opening up to this option.
I hope to be able to, just like I do at home; however whilst SOME corporate IT departments are open to this option, many are not. Most sadly have purchasing and maintenance arrangments with a single (or perhaps a couple) of PC vendors. Hopefully this will change over time.
In the fast moving, ever-changing world of consumer electronics/computers, being the innovator and having a head start on everyone....means everything.
First-mover advantage isn't everything. Apple was the first to make a consumer mass-market GUI-based computer and they lost the crown for more than a decade. Apple wasn't a first-mover for the portable file player market, but now owns it. Innovating isn't everything. Marketing is important, among other things.
Quote:
Originally Posted by shen
So all the other computer manufacturers are so useless that the chip maker has get out both the carrot and the whip to get them to move into the area where Apple is minting money? They can't see it for themselves?
Will they also create a fund to get manufacturers to make a tablet that is actually worth a damn and can compete? Pathetic.
Intel, these are your partners in business. Weep bitter tears...
I don't think it's that simple. I think they want to make sure their customers still use their chips.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Firefly7475
Totally correct.
If Intel had any brains they would pour millions into reference designs for OEMs to use. That way the combined OEM demand for the components in the reference designs would help to achieve the economies of scale that Apple already enjoy.
To get that kind of economies of scale, they have to share most of the components, including the shell, making notebook computers a nearly fungible commodity in almost every way, something that was previously only possible with the desktop computers.
"Come on, guys, would one of you at least try to compete with Apple? We'll, like, totally pay you."
+!
Very well said.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Firefly7475
One thing is for sure... something has to give. There is no way PC OEM's can hope to compete with Apple's economies of scale as the PC industry gets more mobile.
.
This is, of course, absurd. There are at least 4 PC vendors who buy more components than Apple and assemble more systems than Apple. More RAM, more motherboards, more CPUs, more video chips, etc. It has nothing to do with economy of scale.
It does have to do with design and good manufacturing processes. Apple has designed their system to be easy to manufacture. Apple has intentionally limited the number of different products they sell (have you tried to make sense of all the different options on Dell or HP's site?) Apple leaves off the things that don't add value. Apple only goes into markets where they think they can competed - which is why you haven't been able to buy an Apple printer or standalone camera for over a decade. Apple reuses design features when possible. Apple focuses on the design where they add value and outsource the production - which is a low margin game.
If any of the PC vendors did the same things, they could compete with Apple on price - easily (especially since their R&D costs are so much lower). But they won't. They're too interested in chasing every last sale and will therefore continue to offer every option under the book and completely redesign their products every 3 months in the misguided hope that their systems will be more attractive that way.
Not to mention that the PC vendors never realized that the high end (profitable) customers don't generally buy on features any more. They're buying on design and the overall package, not whether the processor is 3.1 or 3.2 GHz or the camera 5.3 or 6.1 MP.
1) Is Intel again using unfair advantage against AMD? AMD can't supply processors for Ultrabooks since Global Foundries sux. (40nm against intels upcoming 3gate 22 nm. They are at least 2 generations after intel at manufacturing.
2) Intel and Apples exclusive agreement has expired. Intel knows that Apple will probably starting to switch to ARM next year. Intel therefore are funding other companies to compete directly with Apple.
Let's hope when the 3 upcoming Fabs from Global Foundries come on-line that Apple expands it's ARM assembly with GF and adds AMD Bulldozer based solutions to the Mac family as an option to Intel.
You hope in vain. Apple doesn't like providing options. They would rather pick what they think is best and have you agree with them.
Yeah, that is a Thunderbolt port which makes sense as Intel designed the tech ... Developed by Intel (under the code name Light Peak), and brought to market with technical collaboration from Apple.
I wonder if there's a caveat that says "no Apples need apply." Otherwise, Apple should just march in and claim their $300M. Not that they need it, having more cash than the U.S. Treasury.
You hope in vain. Apple doesn't like providing options. They would rather pick what they think is best and have you agree with them.
And then when they add the missing basic stuff to the next iteration, you agree again and buy the product again (which too is missing basic stuff, so you will buy it again, and again, and again).
Apple is masterful at taking money from its fans. Again and again and again.
It is staggering really. Intel is stating with its wallet that the only way for others to compete with Apple is for them to all work together and copy Apple's designs. No innovation, no new paradigms, simply blindly copy Apple's lead to survive. Not a good sign for their collective futures.
This also says to me says Intel sees Apple dropping Intel chips in the future and they simply have no choice even if it might accelerate that very process. Apple is only a year or two away from their own chips across all products IMO. I only worry about VMs in that respect and that is becoming less important everyday that goes by for most. I don't know enough about that to know if VMWare could ever run Windows on an A6 or whatever. Perhaps certain Macs could come with an option of an Intel Chip included as a second CPU just for VMs?
Why not buy a second machine? OS X has a large enough software base that losing VM support isn't a big deal. Windows 8 will probably run on ARM anyway, so it could potentially work with an ARM based VM.
I do wonder how Apple feels about Intel giving all their competition a leg up.
Does Apple really care? I wonder. Doesn't seem to be so important to have an Intel processor in your device anymore. Too, an actual new kind of device may not be imminent. Apple's focus may be on redesigning and adapting older plays, aka the MBA, the MBP and its mini. We'll have to wait to see if further price reductions are in line for the MBP and Mac mini.
Appel is designing its own chips and I think will eventually adapt them to all their new technologies. Probably the iMac, mini, MacBook Pro and Mac Pro will continue on Intel to keep Intel interested and scared.
I'm so impressed with Apple's pricing structure for its newer devices. What a rule changer this company is! If nothing else, it sure ain't boring at this coral!
It is staggering really. Intel is stating with its wallet that the only way for others to compete with Apple is for them to all work together and copy Apple's designs. No innovation, no new paradigms, simply blindly copy Apple's lead to survive. Not a good sign for their collective futures.
This also says to me says Intel sees Apple dropping Intel chips in the future and they simply have no choice even if it might accelerate that very process. Apple is only a year or two away from their own chips across all products IMO. I only worry about VMs in that respect and that is becoming less important everyday that goes by for most. I don't know enough about that to know if VMWare could ever run Windows on an A6 or whatever. Perhaps certain Macs could come with an option of an Intel Chip included as a second CPU just for VMs?
With new tech for OS X software developers like GCD and XPC, I keep wondering if all Macs including Mac Pros will move to ARM chips with massive numbers of cores at some point. This has been predicted as the future for the computer industry for awhile, but it has been held back by legacy coding practices and software. Apple could probably be a first mover here by five years. They could easily get a significant performance lead over the rest of the industry for a significant amount of time. High performance computing is increasingly becoming a niche area... but maybe it will somehow become the next big industry changing innovation to come out of Apple if software is available to use all of that power.
Comments
Yeah, that is a Thunderbolt port which makes sense as Intel designed the tech.
Yeah, it's a bad teaser video. Seems like they are marketing toward the same people buying Droids. I'm surprised it didn't transform. It's one explosion away from being directed by Michael Bay.
co-designed.
Here here.
My original impression is that we would start to see some pretty huge mergers on the PC OEM front over the next few years (i.e. ASUS+Acer+Lenovo, HP+Dell etc) and we still might, but this offers an alternative.
One thing is for sure... something has to give. There is no way PC OEM's can hope to compete with Apple's economies of scale as the PC industry gets more mobile.
In any case, word on the street is that this isn't simply a move by Intel to "blur the lines between traditional notebooks and tablets" but to quite literally make a tablet.
Watch for Intel to make a relatively reserved push toward Windows 7 ultraportables next year, a pretty big splash with Win8 at the end of 2012 and throw everything they have behind Windows 8 ultraportables/transformers/tablets with Haswell in 2013.
I can't imagine they would be bitter about it. Apple know as well as anyone the position that Intel have been placed in because of ARM.
ARM goes against Atom. Intel stepping into the Macbook Air category goes directly at Apple.
Apple won't be thrilled.
ARM goes against Atom. Intel stepping into the Macbook Air category goes directly at Apple.
Apple won't be thrilled.
Intel needs to get into the "tablet" space. Atom or ULV Core isn't going to cut it.
This Ultrabook play is like touching your nose by circling your hand around your head.
Intel needs to get into ARM in a big way. Wouldn't they love to fab even more Apple chips? Apple notwithstanding, they can't keep ignoring ARM. Not in this business and economic climate.
The next MacBook Airs could easily be AMD. In a few years they will be ARM. That is inevitable.
Depends on the company. Asus makes the best prebuilt systems right now (yeah they are better then macs quality wise) so I believe they will place some high quality parts in it. Hp and dell may as well market them as high end paper weights because that's exactly what they will be.
(yeah! nice joke, quality wise)
I love coming to Apple Insider to learn about the inside scoop on ... Asus.
Just keep clicking friends. AI is selling us to Google.
Intel needs to get into ARM in a big way. Wouldn't they love to fab even more Apple chips? Apple notwithstanding, they can't keep ignoring ARM. Not in this business and economic climate.
Building ARM chips makes about as much economic sense for Intel as building Windows PCs would for Apple. The problem is that the margin is a fraction of what they make on their own designs. Intel has the best process tech, and could perhaps get a slight premium over other foundries if they entered that business, but it wouldn't even come close to the premium on their x86 processors.
The next MacBook Airs could easily be AMD. In a few years they will be ARM. That is inevitable.
It's been a while since I followed AMD closely, but they didn't used to have mobile offerings that could really compete with Intel. Has that changed? As for ARM in the Air, maybe one day - but I don't expect to see it until we have 64bit ARM processors, and that's still some ways off.
Intel supplies the R&D and economy of scale for a milled chassis which will help vendors compete with Apple moving forward whilst giving Intel a solid hold on their CPU market as ARM keeps stepping up. Sounds like a good plan to me.
I do wonder how Apple feels about Intel giving all their competition a leg up.
It is staggering really. Intel is stating with its wallet that the only way for others to compete with Apple is for them to all work together and copy Apple's designs. No innovation, no new paradigms, simply blindly copy Apple's lead to survive. Not a good sign for their collective futures.
This also says to me says Intel sees Apple dropping Intel chips in the future and they simply have no choice even if it might accelerate that very process. Apple is only a year or two away from their own chips across all products IMO. I only worry about VMs in that respect and that is becoming less important everyday that goes by for most. I don't know enough about that to know if VMWare could ever run Windows on an A6 or whatever. Perhaps certain Macs could come with an option of an Intel Chip included as a second CPU just for VMs?
Your optimism is interesting, but possibly misplaced. A MacBook Air is not just about the form factor. That said, why can't you just buy the latest MacBook Air and install Windows BootCamp on it? Most employers are really opening up to this option.
I hope to be able to, just like I do at home; however whilst SOME corporate IT departments are open to this option, many are not. Most sadly have purchasing and maintenance arrangments with a single (or perhaps a couple) of PC vendors. Hopefully this will change over time.
In the fast moving, ever-changing world of consumer electronics/computers, being the innovator and having a head start on everyone....means everything.
First-mover advantage isn't everything. Apple was the first to make a consumer mass-market GUI-based computer and they lost the crown for more than a decade. Apple wasn't a first-mover for the portable file player market, but now owns it. Innovating isn't everything. Marketing is important, among other things.
So all the other computer manufacturers are so useless that the chip maker has get out both the carrot and the whip to get them to move into the area where Apple is minting money? They can't see it for themselves?
Will they also create a fund to get manufacturers to make a tablet that is actually worth a damn and can compete? Pathetic.
Intel, these are your partners in business. Weep bitter tears...
I don't think it's that simple. I think they want to make sure their customers still use their chips.
Totally correct.
If Intel had any brains they would pour millions into reference designs for OEMs to use. That way the combined OEM demand for the components in the reference designs would help to achieve the economies of scale that Apple already enjoy.
To get that kind of economies of scale, they have to share most of the components, including the shell, making notebook computers a nearly fungible commodity in almost every way, something that was previously only possible with the desktop computers.
co-designed.
I don't know about that.
http://news.cnet.com/8301-13924_3-10363956-64.html
(yeah! nice joke, quality wise)
The quality surveys that show Apple at the top also show Asus at the top too.
"Come on, guys, would one of you at least try to compete with Apple? We'll, like, totally pay you."
+!
Very well said.
One thing is for sure... something has to give. There is no way PC OEM's can hope to compete with Apple's economies of scale as the PC industry gets more mobile.
.
This is, of course, absurd. There are at least 4 PC vendors who buy more components than Apple and assemble more systems than Apple. More RAM, more motherboards, more CPUs, more video chips, etc. It has nothing to do with economy of scale.
It does have to do with design and good manufacturing processes. Apple has designed their system to be easy to manufacture. Apple has intentionally limited the number of different products they sell (have you tried to make sense of all the different options on Dell or HP's site?) Apple leaves off the things that don't add value. Apple only goes into markets where they think they can competed - which is why you haven't been able to buy an Apple printer or standalone camera for over a decade. Apple reuses design features when possible. Apple focuses on the design where they add value and outsource the production - which is a low margin game.
If any of the PC vendors did the same things, they could compete with Apple on price - easily (especially since their R&D costs are so much lower). But they won't. They're too interested in chasing every last sale and will therefore continue to offer every option under the book and completely redesign their products every 3 months in the misguided hope that their systems will be more attractive that way.
Not to mention that the PC vendors never realized that the high end (profitable) customers don't generally buy on features any more. They're buying on design and the overall package, not whether the processor is 3.1 or 3.2 GHz or the camera 5.3 or 6.1 MP.
2) Intel and Apples exclusive agreement has expired. Intel knows that Apple will probably starting to switch to ARM next year. Intel therefore are funding other companies to compete directly with Apple.
"Come on, guys, would one of you at least try to compete with Apple? We'll, like, totally pay you."
I love it!
I couldn't have said it any better.
Let's hope when the 3 upcoming Fabs from Global Foundries come on-line that Apple expands it's ARM assembly with GF and adds AMD Bulldozer based solutions to the Mac family as an option to Intel.
You hope in vain. Apple doesn't like providing options. They would rather pick what they think is best and have you agree with them.
Yeah, that is a Thunderbolt port which makes sense as Intel designed the tech ... Developed by Intel (under the code name Light Peak), and brought to market with technical collaboration from Apple.
There .... fixed it for you !
+!
Apple leaves off the things that don't add value.
Is that why they left the camera off the original iPad? Your statement is a common meme, but IMO, it is untrue.
You hope in vain. Apple doesn't like providing options. They would rather pick what they think is best and have you agree with them.
And then when they add the missing basic stuff to the next iteration, you agree again and buy the product again (which too is missing basic stuff, so you will buy it again, and again, and again).
Apple is masterful at taking money from its fans. Again and again and again.
It is staggering really. Intel is stating with its wallet that the only way for others to compete with Apple is for them to all work together and copy Apple's designs. No innovation, no new paradigms, simply blindly copy Apple's lead to survive. Not a good sign for their collective futures.
This also says to me says Intel sees Apple dropping Intel chips in the future and they simply have no choice even if it might accelerate that very process. Apple is only a year or two away from their own chips across all products IMO. I only worry about VMs in that respect and that is becoming less important everyday that goes by for most. I don't know enough about that to know if VMWare could ever run Windows on an A6 or whatever. Perhaps certain Macs could come with an option of an Intel Chip included as a second CPU just for VMs?
Why not buy a second machine? OS X has a large enough software base that losing VM support isn't a big deal. Windows 8 will probably run on ARM anyway, so it could potentially work with an ARM based VM.
I do wonder how Apple feels about Intel giving all their competition a leg up.
Does Apple really care? I wonder. Doesn't seem to be so important to have an Intel processor in your device anymore. Too, an actual new kind of device may not be imminent. Apple's focus may be on redesigning and adapting older plays, aka the MBA, the MBP and its mini. We'll have to wait to see if further price reductions are in line for the MBP and Mac mini.
Appel is designing its own chips and I think will eventually adapt them to all their new technologies. Probably the iMac, mini, MacBook Pro and Mac Pro will continue on Intel to keep Intel interested and scared.
I'm so impressed with Apple's pricing structure for its newer devices. What a rule changer this company is! If nothing else, it sure ain't boring at this coral!
It is staggering really. Intel is stating with its wallet that the only way for others to compete with Apple is for them to all work together and copy Apple's designs. No innovation, no new paradigms, simply blindly copy Apple's lead to survive. Not a good sign for their collective futures.
This also says to me says Intel sees Apple dropping Intel chips in the future and they simply have no choice even if it might accelerate that very process. Apple is only a year or two away from their own chips across all products IMO. I only worry about VMs in that respect and that is becoming less important everyday that goes by for most. I don't know enough about that to know if VMWare could ever run Windows on an A6 or whatever. Perhaps certain Macs could come with an option of an Intel Chip included as a second CPU just for VMs?
With new tech for OS X software developers like GCD and XPC, I keep wondering if all Macs including Mac Pros will move to ARM chips with massive numbers of cores at some point. This has been predicted as the future for the computer industry for awhile, but it has been held back by legacy coding practices and software. Apple could probably be a first mover here by five years. They could easily get a significant performance lead over the rest of the industry for a significant amount of time. High performance computing is increasingly becoming a niche area... but maybe it will somehow become the next big industry changing innovation to come out of Apple if software is available to use all of that power.