This is, of course, absurd. There are at least 4 PC vendors who buy more components than Apple and assemble more systems than Apple. More RAM, more motherboards, more CPUs, more video chips, etc. It has nothing to do with economy of scale.
If any of the PC vendors did the same things, they could compete with Apple on price
So your solution is what?
For PC manufactures to drop everything and attempt to directly emulate Apple's business model? (minus the decade of positive good will Apple have behind them)
For them to attempt to address the incredibly wide and diverse PC market by limiting their range to a few models?
Could you even imagine if Dell came out tomorrow and said they are dropping their entire PC range except a few models priced between $1000 and $2000? The company would be gone before the end of the year.
For PC manufactures to drop everything and attempt to directly emulate Apple's business model? (minus the decade of positive good will Apple have behind them)
For them to attempt to address the incredibly wide and diverse PC market by limiting their range to a few models?
Could you even imagine if Dell came out tomorrow and said they are dropping their entire PC range except a few models priced between $1000 and $2000? The company would be gone before the end of the year.
Talk about absurd.
Yes, it's absurd that you completely missed what I said.
PC vendors can improve their design and manufacturing processes without simply following Apple's business model. There are LOTS of ways to improve their design.
The point is that several PC vendors buy considerably more components and assemble far more products than Apple does. Even for the lower volume PC vendors, they're probably buying generic components so they can get some benefit from the volume, anyway. Saying that it's impossible for a PC vendor to match Apple's economy of scale is ridiculous.
There are quite a few sources suggesting Apple brought the project to Intel and asked for it to be developed. If true, it is the battle of competing sources. It would be quite easy for Intel to say Apple had nothing to do with the design of the technology and Apple didn't ask us to develop the project. It hasn't done so.
I think that Intel and Apple jointly released the technology says a lot. Moreover, Apple has lots of expereince with high speed fiber optics from its development of Firewire, which is still much superior to Intel's developed USB. Apple, however, knows for THunderbolt to be widely adopted, Intel has to embrace it. That was why Firewire struggled to find wide adoption even though it was better. Allowing Intel to develop would accomplish the goal of having Intel embrace the technology.
I have been an Apple user since 1981, and have watched thru the years as Apple attempted to get their message to the masses thru their desktop computers, with some small success, compared to the Wintel empire.
It brings a smile to my face to see Apple dominate in all things mobile. Finally, people are "getting it", and all competitors look to Apple for design direction.
Depends on the company. Asus makes the best prebuilt systems right now (yeah they are better then macs quality wise) so I believe they will place some high quality parts in it. Hp and dell may as well market them as high end paper weights because that's exactly what they will be.
I would not go so far as saying "better" than Macs, but a 2009 survey of 30,000 computer repairs showed ASUS on top reliability wise. Apple and Toshiba were so close that I would call it insignificant. HP was at the bottom, which is no surprise from my past experiences with them.
I've played with an ASUS tablet, and although I did not care much for the Android OS, I was impressed with the overall feel of the device. Based on what I saw there, they seem capable of building a MBA style computer. The question I would have of anyone buying one would be: why not just buy a MBA?
[...] "Our announcement today is about Intel mobilizing significant investments to achieve the next historic shift in computing,? said Intel Vice President Mooly Eden. [...]
The next historic shift in computing won't be Intel and Microsoft cloning MacBook Airs. That's the same race to the bottom that has been around since the late 20th century. The next historic shift in computing will be iPad pioneering the post-PC era. It's already happening.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider
[...] The Ultrabook specification aims to bring laptops under the $1000 range while remaining less than 21mm thick. The devices are also expected to incorporate "tablet-like" features without compromising on performance. [...]
Good boy. You're saying exactly what Ballmer told you to say. "Tablet-like" features applied to Windows? We've seen how well that worked with Windows 7. Remember Ballmer timidly, apologetically, doing a demo of that HP "Slate" at CES in 2010? No? Well you're not alone. The rest of the world has forgotten it too. And Ballmer wants it that way. The less you remember about Windows 7's "touch" features, the more multi-touch on Windows 8 will seem like a fresh, new feature.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider
[...] However, Intel's partners have reportedly struggled to keep their forthcoming Ultrabook offerings under the $1000 price tag. For instance, Asustek's 13.3-inch UX31 will sell for $1600, $300 more than Apple's 13.3-inch MacBook Air. [...]
Train wreck-in-waiting. Poor user experience (key phrase above: "tablet-like") plus higher price. Windows users have been trained to expect a poor user experience. They'll hate it and use it anyway. But they've also been trained to buy the cheapest wintel box they can find. Only the "executive laptop" market will spring for the premium-priced Ultrabooks. And that's a pretty small market. The race to the top will be far more difficult than the traditional Wintel race to the bottom.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider
[...] The Ultrabook concept follows Apple's lead in applying lessons learned from tablets to portable computers. [...]
The Wintel market always follow Apple's lead. Which is actually OK. Blindly copying Apple means that the Wintel crowd can never innovate. Except in cutting corners.
The Air is closer to 4 years old than 3, by now. And laptops are the biggest segment of computer sales. Yet Apple still stands alone in this segment? Intel has given us some great chips this year, but the Air was possible in January 2008, and was already a great machine.
You can have thin, you can have well-built, you can have fast, OR you can have cheap. But you can?t have all 4. Except from Apple, for the past year that Airs have been cheaper than nearest-equivalent PCs. (Much cheaper?try to build a small-screen, high-speed, lightweight SSD laptop at Dell.com. Hope your wallet is thick?your laptop surely will be.)
Why not buy a second machine? OS X has a large enough software base that losing VM support isn't a big deal. Windows 8 will probably run on ARM anyway, so it could potentially work with an ARM based VM.
Oh that was just an after thought to the main thrust of my thoughts.
With new tech for OS X software developers like GCD and XPC, I keep wondering if all Macs including Mac Pros will move to ARM chips with massive numbers of cores at some point. This has been predicted as the future for the computer industry for awhile, but it has been held back by legacy coding practices and software. Apple could probably be a first mover here by five years. They could easily get a significant performance lead over the rest of the industry for a significant amount of time. High performance computing is increasingly becoming a niche area... but maybe it will somehow become the next big industry changing innovation to come out of Apple if software is available to use all of that power.
That's what I was saying ... I think this is coming and Intel know it or at least suspect it.
Why would I buy an "Ultrabook" when I already have a "NetBook"?
Ultrabook sounds like an effort to salvage what is left of the netbook market that has gone nowhere.
1) You think the MBAs with Core processors and full size keyboards are in the same league as a netbook?
2) You've ignored what Intel is investing in order to get the machines under $1000. Yes, $200-300 is also under $1000 but if you think Intel's focus was to create cramped keyboard devices that can barely run a web browser under Windows then you're sorely mistaken.
You hope in vain. Apple doesn't like providing options. They would rather pick what they think is best and have you agree with them.
Stop writing to people who you think know nothing of Apple. Please. I suggest reading the board longer before making such claims. Some of us have work history as alumni.
There are quite a few sources suggesting Apple brought the project to Intel and asked for it to be developed. If true, it is the battle of competing sources. It would be quite easy for Intel to say Apple had nothing to do with the design of the technology and Apple didn't ask us to develop the project. It hasn't done so.
If you take Apple's Thunderbolt page at face value, they say Intel started the project, and Apple and Intel jointly finished it. I don't know why Apple would start the work on it and then say Intel did the initial work, unless they were being needlessly diplomatic.
Why would I buy an "Ultrabook" when I already have a "NetBook"?
Ultrabook sounds like an effort to salvage what is left of the netbook market that has gone nowhere.
Maybe because the Ultrabook is a fully functional, useful computer while the netbook is a crippled POS with a tiny, low quality screen, miniature keyboard, inadequate storage, inferior processor, all in a useless design?
Comments
This is, of course, absurd. There are at least 4 PC vendors who buy more components than Apple and assemble more systems than Apple. More RAM, more motherboards, more CPUs, more video chips, etc. It has nothing to do with economy of scale.
If any of the PC vendors did the same things, they could compete with Apple on price
So your solution is what?
For PC manufactures to drop everything and attempt to directly emulate Apple's business model? (minus the decade of positive good will Apple have behind them)
For them to attempt to address the incredibly wide and diverse PC market by limiting their range to a few models?
Could you even imagine if Dell came out tomorrow and said they are dropping their entire PC range except a few models priced between $1000 and $2000? The company would be gone before the end of the year.
Talk about absurd.
So your solution is what?
For PC manufactures to drop everything and attempt to directly emulate Apple's business model? (minus the decade of positive good will Apple have behind them)
For them to attempt to address the incredibly wide and diverse PC market by limiting their range to a few models?
Could you even imagine if Dell came out tomorrow and said they are dropping their entire PC range except a few models priced between $1000 and $2000? The company would be gone before the end of the year.
Talk about absurd.
Yes, it's absurd that you completely missed what I said.
PC vendors can improve their design and manufacturing processes without simply following Apple's business model. There are LOTS of ways to improve their design.
The point is that several PC vendors buy considerably more components and assemble far more products than Apple does. Even for the lower volume PC vendors, they're probably buying generic components so they can get some benefit from the volume, anyway. Saying that it's impossible for a PC vendor to match Apple's economy of scale is ridiculous.
I think that Intel and Apple jointly released the technology says a lot. Moreover, Apple has lots of expereince with high speed fiber optics from its development of Firewire, which is still much superior to Intel's developed USB. Apple, however, knows for THunderbolt to be widely adopted, Intel has to embrace it. That was why Firewire struggled to find wide adoption even though it was better. Allowing Intel to develop would accomplish the goal of having Intel embrace the technology.
I don't know about that.
http://news.cnet.com/8301-13924_3-10363956-64.html
It brings a smile to my face to see Apple dominate in all things mobile. Finally, people are "getting it", and all competitors look to Apple for design direction.
That ASUS looks like a MacBook Air painted black!
Depends on the company. Asus makes the best prebuilt systems right now (yeah they are better then macs quality wise) so I believe they will place some high quality parts in it. Hp and dell may as well market them as high end paper weights because that's exactly what they will be.
I would not go so far as saying "better" than Macs, but a 2009 survey of 30,000 computer repairs showed ASUS on top reliability wise. Apple and Toshiba were so close that I would call it insignificant. HP was at the bottom, which is no surprise from my past experiences with them.
http://www.engadget.com/2009/11/17/l...-win-hp-fails/
I've played with an ASUS tablet, and although I did not care much for the Android OS, I was impressed with the overall feel of the device. Based on what I saw there, they seem capable of building a MBA style computer. The question I would have of anyone buying one would be: why not just buy a MBA?
[...] "Our announcement today is about Intel mobilizing significant investments to achieve the next historic shift in computing,? said Intel Vice President Mooly Eden. [...]
The next historic shift in computing won't be Intel and Microsoft cloning MacBook Airs. That's the same race to the bottom that has been around since the late 20th century. The next historic shift in computing will be iPad pioneering the post-PC era. It's already happening.
[...] The Ultrabook specification aims to bring laptops under the $1000 range while remaining less than 21mm thick. The devices are also expected to incorporate "tablet-like" features without compromising on performance. [...]
Good boy. You're saying exactly what Ballmer told you to say. "Tablet-like" features applied to Windows? We've seen how well that worked with Windows 7. Remember Ballmer timidly, apologetically, doing a demo of that HP "Slate" at CES in 2010? No? Well you're not alone. The rest of the world has forgotten it too. And Ballmer wants it that way. The less you remember about Windows 7's "touch" features, the more multi-touch on Windows 8 will seem like a fresh, new feature.
[...] However, Intel's partners have reportedly struggled to keep their forthcoming Ultrabook offerings under the $1000 price tag. For instance, Asustek's 13.3-inch UX31 will sell for $1600, $300 more than Apple's 13.3-inch MacBook Air. [...]
Train wreck-in-waiting. Poor user experience (key phrase above: "tablet-like") plus higher price. Windows users have been trained to expect a poor user experience. They'll hate it and use it anyway. But they've also been trained to buy the cheapest wintel box they can find. Only the "executive laptop" market will spring for the premium-priced Ultrabooks. And that's a pretty small market. The race to the top will be far more difficult than the traditional Wintel race to the bottom.
[...] The Ultrabook concept follows Apple's lead in applying lessons learned from tablets to portable computers. [...]
The Wintel market always follow Apple's lead. Which is actually OK. Blindly copying Apple means that the Wintel crowd can never innovate. Except in cutting corners.
You can have thin, you can have well-built, you can have fast, OR you can have cheap. But you can?t have all 4. Except from Apple, for the past year that Airs have been cheaper than nearest-equivalent PCs. (Much cheaper?try to build a small-screen, high-speed, lightweight SSD laptop at Dell.com. Hope your wallet is thick?your laptop surely will be.)
Why not buy a second machine? OS X has a large enough software base that losing VM support isn't a big deal. Windows 8 will probably run on ARM anyway, so it could potentially work with an ARM based VM.
Oh that was just an after thought to the main thrust of my thoughts.
With new tech for OS X software developers like GCD and XPC, I keep wondering if all Macs including Mac Pros will move to ARM chips with massive numbers of cores at some point. This has been predicted as the future for the computer industry for awhile, but it has been held back by legacy coding practices and software. Apple could probably be a first mover here by five years. They could easily get a significant performance lead over the rest of the industry for a significant amount of time. High performance computing is increasingly becoming a niche area... but maybe it will somehow become the next big industry changing innovation to come out of Apple if software is available to use all of that power.
That's what I was saying ... I think this is coming and Intel know it or at least suspect it.
That's what I was saying ... I think this is coming and Intel know it or at least suspect it.
I think Apple could pull it off better than anyone but I think they're more likely to buy out AMD before dumping x86_64 for ARM_32.
Ultrabook sounds like an effort to salvage what is left of the netbook market that has gone nowhere.
Why would I buy an "Ultrabook" when I already have a "NetBook"?
Ultrabook sounds like an effort to salvage what is left of the netbook market that has gone nowhere.
1) You think the MBAs with Core processors and full size keyboards are in the same league as a netbook?
2) You've ignored what Intel is investing in order to get the machines under $1000. Yes, $200-300 is also under $1000 but if you think Intel's focus was to create cramped keyboard devices that can barely run a web browser under Windows then you're sorely mistaken.
You hope in vain. Apple doesn't like providing options. They would rather pick what they think is best and have you agree with them.
Stop writing to people who you think know nothing of Apple. Please. I suggest reading the board longer before making such claims. Some of us have work history as alumni.
There are quite a few sources suggesting Apple brought the project to Intel and asked for it to be developed. If true, it is the battle of competing sources. It would be quite easy for Intel to say Apple had nothing to do with the design of the technology and Apple didn't ask us to develop the project. It hasn't done so.
If you take Apple's Thunderbolt page at face value, they say Intel started the project, and Apple and Intel jointly finished it. I don't know why Apple would start the work on it and then say Intel did the initial work, unless they were being needlessly diplomatic.
Why would I buy an "Ultrabook" when I already have a "NetBook"?
Ultrabook sounds like an effort to salvage what is left of the netbook market that has gone nowhere.
Because even I would have a hard time calling one of the new Asus computers that are as thin as the MBA but have an i7 loaded inside, a netbook.
a netbook is the $250 laptop you buy at walmart.
The only problem is, whatever hardware they build, they all run Windows.
That's the best part. I'll have Ubuntu up an running on mine for some network utilities though
Intel is spear heading moves against apple
why use samsung or intel if they are pushing people away from a major player source of revenue
SJ must have given intel some heavy handed insight into power consumption
apple is moving on
Why would I buy an "Ultrabook" when I already have a "NetBook"?
Ultrabook sounds like an effort to salvage what is left of the netbook market that has gone nowhere.
Maybe because the Ultrabook is a fully functional, useful computer while the netbook is a crippled POS with a tiny, low quality screen, miniature keyboard, inadequate storage, inferior processor, all in a useless design?