Microsoft exec says PC 'not even middle-aged,' rejects post-PC label

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  • Reply 41 of 252
    I sort of agree and sort of disagree. It's more nuanced than that, not an either-or. I think we're most definitely in the post-PC era that everyone has been predicting for the last 10+ years, but I think the desktop PC and laptops will continue to have a role in our lives for years and years to come.



    About 10+ years ago, the desktop computer was the workhorse and the laptop was a lower-powered, quick access mobile PC. Now, laptops have gotten powerful enough to challenge desktops, leaving an opening for lower-powered, quick access mobile devices that phones and tablets can fill.



    So, I don't see a clear demarcation as far as the post-PC thing goes. I see a gradual transition where desktop PCs and laptops will still be a part of it. I don't understand arguing it one way or the other.
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  • Reply 42 of 252
    Ok, the problem with Microsoft's perspective is that the Windows PC was always more than what your average person needed at home. People at home use a PC to browse the web, read and write emails, view pictures, listen to music, etc. The iPad does all of these exceptionally well therefore could easily replace a PC for a lot of poeple. Not to mention the benefits of increased portability, instant on access and the touch interface. Microsoft is overlooking these issues because they are stuck in their traditional way of thinking. I will say that the iPad isn't quite ready for the corporate world in terms of producing content. It is really good for consuming content which is what most people do at home. So I think Windows will do well for some time in the corporate world.



    The iPad is not a fad. It will evolve into something much more powerful down the road.
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  • Reply 43 of 252
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post


    The iPad is many, many times more powerful than a Mac 512.



    An iPad 2 is on par with machines like a PowerBook G4 1.5 GHz, going by Geekbench.



    Its also many times more powerful than the vaunted NeXT Cube, and contains far more storage. If you had shown me an iPad 2 back in 1991, it'd have flipped out and begged you to take me with you back to the year 2011. I'd be like, this thing is as cool as Vanilla Ice, baby!
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  • Reply 44 of 252
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by bigdaddyguido View Post


    But the current iPad is just an infant. Think back on the apple II e, it couldn't do any of the things you now consider "work". The iPad has lots of room to grow, and differentiate, and wildly proclaiming that no tablet will ever be suitable for "paying-the-bills work" says very little for your recognition of just how much technology is going to grow over the next 5, 10 and 50 years.



    I think there are a lot of different't ideas floating around out there about what a "post PC era" means. There is a lot of focus on individual devices and their respective capabilities within enthusiast circles, however I believe the post PC era is more about how applications function across many devices and how these devices interact with each other. Cloud computing is one part of this however look at the moves apple is making: Driverless printing, air-play, remote desktop, etc...



    Eventually, people will be able to seamlessly connect their iPhones, iPads, tv's, computers, and whatever else they have. Applications will be accessable from anywhere on any device and leverage computing power shared from massive data centers. Average people simply won't need PC's anymore in the conventional sense. An iDevice is simply a method of interfacing with apps and cloud computing. The only thing limiting this right now is bandwidth limitations and the speed of development, so for now we are stuck with basic word processing and games like angry birds... (kinda like the original macintosh :P)
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  • Reply 45 of 252
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post


    a corporate HP PC



    "Get 'em 'fore they're gone!"
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  • Reply 46 of 252
    bdkennedy1bdkennedy1 Posts: 1,459member
    The PC isn't going anywhere. Graphic designers, accountants, print designers, gamers all need PC's and the tablet will never be able to handle the computing power or the screen size we need.
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  • Reply 47 of 252
    charlitunacharlituna Posts: 7,217member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by drwatz0n View Post


    Let's be real here, folks. No matter how much Apple Kool-Aid you drink, PCs, in any form (remember that Macs are PCs too), aren't going anywhere for a long while. People who do real work, .



    but how does that number stack up against those that don't.



    And how do those uses stack up against what is not



    I would hazard in both cases that it's like 20% at most.



    Remember Jobs was talking about Joe and Jane Q Public and their casual needs. And for them, the age of the PC is waning. Because there is an app for that. Sure they will still have a PC for a while but it is no longer the center of their computing universe and perhaps not what they use 80-90% of the time
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  • Reply 48 of 252
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by bdkennedy1 View Post


    The PC isn't going anywhere. Graphic designers, accountants, print designers, gamers all need PC's and the tablet will never be able to handle the computing power or the screen size we need.



    Nobody is saying the PC is going away. Just saying that PCs will soon become less relevant for the mass majority.
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  • Reply 49 of 252
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by a_greer View Post


    The Apple fanboys here and at sites like this one all seem to miss the fact that the iPad is just a toy when talking about teh post PC era...sure, it kicks the PCs ass when playing angery birds and watching reruns of House on hulu - but practical PRODUCTIVE usage is limited. With ios 5 everything is tied to iCloud which means that everything lives in Apple's data center...there is no way that I have found for corporate IT to disable that, not in exchange or SCCM 2012 and not in mass via any tool from Apple.



    But its not just icloud, when your little ipad can produce usefull data visualizations with large sets as fast as I can on my PC with Excel and PowerPivot, give me a call...



    The iPad is a PC replacment only for those who only consume and occasionally email. For teh rest of us, it is an accessory.



    saying that the ipad replaces a PC is like saying that the neck tie replaces the button up shirt...it does not replace it -- it complements it.



    Both visions are right. There will always be a place for the desk top computing environment whether it is fueled by a mainframe computer or by the desktop computer. While laptops may or may not survive, the tablet/iPad type computer will continue to mature and gain capability.



    Where the quoted comment above falls apart in limiting the future of the tablet/iPad is very simple. The poster lacks the proper recognition for and appreciation of the history of the PC. He and all of us would do well to remember that, when the first PCs were "born" they were almost toys. They supported simple games and did tasks only hobbyists could enjoy.



    In the 1950s, large mainframes could barely do much more than add and subtract large numbers. In the 1970s, personal computers could barely add and subtract while mainframes were capable of solving complex problems. In the 1980s, the first serious personal computers were as capable as a mini computer. Mainframes were thought to be passé and on the way out. In each decade since then, computing sophistication has advanced at each computing power level.



    The first PC productivity applications were unsophisticated, almost crude by today's standards. It has taken three decades of desktop maturation to get to the point that productivity of the desktop PC has become ubiquitous.



    In time, the tablet/iPad will also get to the point that the desktop is today in terms of power and software sophistication. But, the desktop PC will also continue to evolve. There is a place for each now and in the future and each will have capabilities we only dream of now.
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  • Reply 50 of 252
    tnsftnsf Posts: 203member
    PC's don't need to get rapidly and dramatically better, they need to get rapidly and dramatically simpler. It is no longer a race for power and technical prowess, it is now a race for usability.
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  • Reply 51 of 252
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by lil_B View Post


    I think there are a lot of different't ideas floating around out there about what a "post PC era" means. There is a lot of focus on individual devices and their respective capabilities within enthusiast circles, however I believe the post PC era is more about how applications function across many devices and how these devices interact with each other. Cloud computing is one part of this however look at the moves apple is making: Driverless printing, air-play, remote desktop, etc...



    Eventually, people will be able to seamlessly connect their iPhones, iPads, tv's, computers, and whatever else they have. Applications will be accessable from anywhere on any device and leverage computing power shared from massive data centers. Average people simply won't need PC's anymore in the conventional sense. An iDevice is simply a method of interfacing with apps and cloud computing. The only thing limiting this right now is bandwidth limitations and the speed of development, so for now we are stuck with basic word processing and games like angry birds... (kinda like the original macintosh :P)



    Couldn't agree more. Computers are going to continue to improve how they interface with us, and our cultural norms and expectations will continue to evolve around these new computers. People cling to the keyboard because it is the fastest and least intrusive current method of transcribing large amounts of data from our minds into digital form. This will not always be the case. Eventually we will have vastly different expectations of what our computers are to perform, and what role we play in that process. Anyone who thinks that modern views on what qualifies as work will always be the status quo is similar to people who thought that books would always be written and bound by hand on paper similarly crafted by hand. The world evolves, and claiming that work will always require a computer with a tangible flat display and a keyboard is not thinking about how history has always progressed.
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  • Reply 52 of 252
    bsenkabsenka Posts: 802member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by bigdaddyguido View Post


    But the current iPad is just an infant. Think back on the apple II e, it couldn't do any of the things you now consider "work". The iPad has lots of room to grow, and differentiate, and wildly proclaiming that no tablet will ever be suitable for "paying-the-bills work" says very little for your recognition of just how much technology is going to grow over the next 5, 10 and 50 years.



    There already is a product that's close to what I could use, Axiotron's Modbook. Apple could make their own take on that, perhaps based on the current MBP, but that wouldn't be anything like an iPad anymore.
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  • Reply 53 of 252
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by bigdaddyguido View Post


    But the current iPad is just an infant. Think back on the apple II e, it couldn't do any of the things you now consider "work". The iPad has lots of room to grow, and differentiate, and wildly proclaiming that no tablet will ever be suitable for "paying-the-bills work" says very little for your recognition of just how much technology is going to grow over the next 5, 10 and 50 years.



    I've been using my iPhone to pay bills for years now.
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  • Reply 54 of 252
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by a_greer View Post


    The iPad is a PC replacment only for those who only consume and occasionally email. For teh rest of us, it is an accessory.



    saying that the ipad replaces a PC is like saying that the neck tie replaces the button up shirt...it does not replace it -- it complements it.



    I think your are partly right. I am using the iPad at work as a Great Device for noting and prtocolling work and results at suppliers. My. Main Problem ist the data Exchange between iPad and Windows, what is my work operating System. So a USB Stick, SD Data Exchange Support will Be Great. Wireless LAN ist mostly forbidden in work. So for me I Hope there will Be One Day a Newton app... Using a iPad As a notepad... Sketching, typing, and viewing and Command writing to office documents



    So, the Hardware isn't Bad... But some Key features are missing or are to complicate today.
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  • Reply 55 of 252
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mbarriault View Post


    I don't think Jobs ever meant the PC was dead or anything close to the term with the "Post-PC era" description. He likened PCs to pickup trucks, which is very apt. Trucks still at the forefront of development, they have the highest profit margins amongst product lineups, there will never come a time where they will not be needed, and they are still the best-selling vehicles in the world. But they don't, haven't in a long time, and likely never will capture people's attention like cars do, and the same is true of PCs.



    He didn't. However, the usage of the term Post-PC was brilliant. Now all the competitors think he meant that, so they are trying to create tablets that do everything a PC does?



    Apple, OTOH, realizes that Post-PC simply means devices that do what most people do most of the time really well (watch media, surf the internet, communicate with people across the world). Jobs articulated this in his truck/car analogy, and all his competitors seemed to miss it.



    So while the competitors think they will be successful creating a PC replacement (after all, its clear that they get their ideas largely from Apple), Apple is creating devices which are enhancements, not necessarily replacements for the PC.
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  • Reply 56 of 252
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by a_greer View Post


    The Apple fanboys here and at sites like this one all seem to miss the fact that the iPad is just a toy when talking about teh post PC era...sure, it kicks the PCs ass when playing angery birds and watching reruns of House on hulu - but practical PRODUCTIVE usage is limited. With ios 5 everything is tied to iCloud which means that everything lives in Apple's data center...there is no way that I have found for corporate IT to disable that, not in exchange or SCCM 2012 and not in mass via any tool from Apple.



    But its not just icloud, when your little ipad can produce usefull data visualizations with large sets as fast as I can on my PC with Excel and PowerPivot, give me a call...



    The iPad is a PC replacment only for those who only consume and occasionally email. For teh rest of us, it is an accessory.



    saying that the ipad replaces a PC is like saying that the neck tie replaces the button up shirt...it does not replace it -- it complements it.



    There we go?another fool who thinks post-pc = replace pc?



    Also, we have the oh so original "productivity" argument.



    Tell me, how many airline strategies has the PC revolutionized? How much medical usage has the PC revolutionized?



    The answer is despite trying a ton, basically, PCs don't show up in an airplane at all. OTOH, the iPad has, and is continuing, to revolutionize the act of flying a plane, and serving passengers on it. The iPad is saving airlines millions simply by saving fuel by reducing the weifht of the manuals pilots need to carry. They aare saving airlines millions by reducing the number of passenger rolls flight-attendants need to print. They are saving doctors tons of effort, and improving medical records accuracy by allowing doctors a digital device they can actually carry around with them all the time.



    And all this has been done within 18 months of its release. The PC serves a very important purpose. However, it does not serve ALL purposes, and the iPad helps fill in some of the gaps the PC left behind.
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  • Reply 57 of 252
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


    Apple's still on the bleeding edge of tech. On which side of the knife they fall depends on what they do with the next Mac Pro update.



    Hardware update, no physical changes = still teetering on the edge.



    Hardware update, physical changes to make it smaller/less expansion = It's over for Apple in ten years.



    Hardware update, becomes the device everyone wants = falls off on the right edge, Apple keeps sailing.



    Discontinued = It's over in two years.



    I am about to burst out laughing.



    Apple could discontinue the Mac Pro tomorrow, and still be fine for the next many decades. The Mac Pro barely contributes anything to their bottom line.



    I don't think they will do that, and I think they will release a decent upgrade, because they want to continue serving their existing customers. But to think Apple's future depends on the future of the Mac Pro is really funny.
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  • Reply 58 of 252
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by AppleLover2 View Post


    Apple has never concentrated on the enterprise, and the uses you cite are becoming niche. That is why Apple is now a portable device company, and the last I checked, they are doing just fine.



    You talk down Mom and Pop, but they are Apples' bread and butter. With the iPod, the iPhone, and now the iPad, Apple is making the computers that the vast majority of people use. "Work other than the basics of computing" is a commodity business, and not the profitable sweet spot.



    The PC is dead as a mainstream device. The iPad killed the netbook, and it is starting to kill the cheap crappy laptop market. Who wants a big clunky beige box? I suppose if you are some sort of big-time spreadsheet number cruncher, but those guys spend as little as possible to get the job done, which means buying Windows machines while giving little or no profits to the clone makers.



    Apple is very smart to ignore that market and concentrate on the iPad.



    One VERY IMPORTANT factor people here are missing is that the Enterprise is changing radically. Its going in 2 (almost opposite, but not really) directions:



    1) Cloud based. The enterprise is going back to running most of their stuff in a central server, with people logging on to their enterprise network. This is a huge blow for MS, because centralized networks are dominated by Linux/Unix.

    2) Consumerization. The above centralization means that companies can allow their employees to use the device of their choice to access the network (something like Citrix is what is enabling this big time). This makes the employees happier (Linux users can use their machines, mac users can use macs) and saves the company money since they do not need to provide devices to all employees.



    Both these trends hurt MS. Fortunately, I think MS does realize these dangers and are working to remedy them (Windows 7 is a largely consumer focused release, and they are making huge strides in the virtualization department). However, the memo does not seem to have filtered down to the PR department just yet.
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  • Reply 59 of 252
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post


    Semantics though. They quit just as IBM did. It's just a matter of timing now.



    now you just need dell and Acer to go and you kill over 60% of cheap PC's that break in a day.
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  • Reply 60 of 252
    shenshen Posts: 434member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by drwatz0n View Post


    Let's be real here, folks. No matter how much Apple Kool-Aid you drink, PCs, in any form (remember that Macs are PCs too), aren't going anywhere for a long while. People who do real work,...



    I agree with the main point of your post, but, the number of people who do "real work" who don't even need a tablet, let alone a full computer, is pretty high. This phrase is insulting as all hell, and people need to stop using it. "Real work" is not defined as "things people do on a computer".
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