I don't think this story is quite accurate. There is no airline approved to use the iPad for approach plates. It has to be a ClassIII EFB to be used anytime the aircraft is moving.
Alaska is using is for its company manuals.
So the paper in airline flightdecks isn't quite yet gone.
I just flew across country in my private plane, using the ipad as my SOLE source for charts and plates (with backup paper, just in case). Worked beautifully, and flew many instrument approaches without a hitch. Had a charger, but didn't need it, because on the long stretches of straight and level flight, you can easily close the smart cover, to conserve battery power, if you need to, and you don't need to look at the charts except when changes to routes occur, or during takeoffs and landings. Don't forget that the aircraft avionics are doing all the flying, and the ipad is merely used for situational awareness, not for any primary flying. Software is now being tested to bring inflight weather mapping, but commercial planes have radar anyway, so, once again, an ipad enhances safety, and removes the paper chart distractions. Anything that can be done to remove workload is a benefit. I specifically bought the ipad2 to use for flying, and it has been worth every penny.
I just flew across country in my private plane, using the ipad as my SOLE source for charts and plates (with backup paper, just in case). Worked beautifully, and flew many instrument approaches without a hitch. Had a charger, but didn't need it, because on the long stretches of straight and level flight, you can easily close the smart cover, to conserve battery power, if you need to, and you don't need to look at the charts except when changes to routes occur, or during takeoffs and landings. Don't forget that the aircraft avionics are doing all the flying, and the ipad is merely used for situational awareness, not for any primary flying. Software is now being tested to bring inflight weather mapping, but commercial planes have radar anyway, so, once again, an ipad enhances safety, and removes the paper chart distractions. Anything that can be done to remove workload is a benefit. I specifically bought the ipad2 to use for flying, and it has been worth every penny.
Do you use it for pre-flights and maintenance records -- are there apps for that?
United Airlines is a corporation and an enterprise. Apple is a consumer products company. Apple should not sell to enterprise customers. Apple should only sell to small businesses with less than 5 employees.
United Airlines is a corporation and an enterprise. Apple is a consumer products company. Apple should not sell to enterprise customers. Apple should only sell to small businesses with less than 5 employees.
AIR, there are 5 or less people in the cockpit of most planes....
...The wording of your post reminds me of the ad on the TV, where this big guy comes on the screen and says: "I have a small business..."
I don't think this story is quite accurate. There is no airline approved to use the iPad for approach plates. It has to be a ClassIII EFB to be used anytime the aircraft is moving.
Alaska is using is for its company manuals.
So the paper in airline flightdecks isn't quite yet gone.
Actually, we CAN use the iPad for our reference device... we just have to have paper charts available in the cockpit as well (for the time being.)... Once the iPad gets some real-life use under it's belt, I would anticipate the paper requirement to go away as well. After all there will be TWO iPads in the cockpit, so even if one somehow dies, we'll have a second available. (And that paper requirement is only for the navigation charts... the various manuals that we also have to carry will be completely replaced by the iPad almost immediately.)
I just need to know, what is the PHYSICAL BACKUP that is available in planes. As a passenger, that's all I need to know. I'm happy for iPads and what not, thrilled, in fact, but I just need to know the ANALOG BACKUP in place.
Actually, we CAN use the iPad for our reference device... we just have to have paper charts available in the cockpit as well (for the time being.)... Once the iPad gets some real-life use under it's belt, I would anticipate the paper requirement to go away as well. After all there will be TWO iPads in the cockpit, so even if one somehow dies, we'll have a second available. (And that paper requirement is only for the navigation charts... the various manuals that we also have to carry will be completely replaced by the iPad almost immediately.)
Can you explain though what happens if both iPads die? Then you have no manuals, and no navigation charts. What happens then? I'm curious.
Can you explain though what happens if both iPads die? Then you have no manuals, and no navigation charts. What happens then? I'm curious.
If you're worried about two iPads failing at the same time, you're getting down to a probability so low that it would be a statistical fluke. Even so, as Suddenly Newton points out, there's an incredible amount of safety redundancy in commercial aviation.
And if you're still not reassured, then perhaps you need to give up air travel for Amtrak. Of course, the odds of a train derailing while you're aboard are likely much greater than two iPads failing simultaneously.
Can you explain though what happens if both iPads die? Then you have no manuals, and no navigation charts. What happens then? I'm curious.
If you're sitting in the back?... You'll never even notice it.
The charts in the iPad (or on paper) are required to be there... They aren't really necessary to fly or navigate or land. While they do make some things easier, it can all be done without them.
(And no... They don't have to be turned off for takeoff and landing. )
Actually, we CAN use the iPad for our reference device... we just have to have paper charts available in the cockpit as well (for the time being.)... Once the iPad gets some real-life use under it's belt, I would anticipate the paper requirement to go away as well. After all there will be TWO iPads in the cockpit, so even if one somehow dies, we'll have a second available. (And that paper requirement is only for the navigation charts... the various manuals that we also have to carry will be completely replaced by the iPad almost immediately.)
You won't be able to use them as approach plates any time soon.
Who's software package have you been using? I see United are going for Jeppesen, but I believe there are multiple options out there.
I'm about to start flying again after a year out (taildragger training starts in 5 hours!) and was thinking about subscribing to something like this, instead of heading to the pilots shop to update all my charts/AFD etc. I'd appreciate your advice on what you've found, what you like and don't like about it etc.
Foreflight. Definitely much better and more sophisticated than Jeppesen, even compared to the newest version of Jeppesen. Get the geo-referenced version and the ipad2 is a must due to better GPS reception than ipad1. No need for external GPS antenna with ipad2.
Do you use it for pre-flights and maintenance records -- are there apps for that?
Dick, hi no i use my old laminated card for preflights, except for weight and balance app. I use Foreflight on the ground for flight planning and weather briefing. Seems the ipad only gets in the way for preflight stuff. Only use logbooks for maint stuff. Foreflight is also looking into ADS-B traffic displays but all this stuff, and weather nexrad would require two more inflight communications systems different from typical internet connectivity, so it seems far off for now. The great thing about all these apps is the ability to work independantly from internet connectivity.
Can you explain though what happens if both iPads die? Then you have no manuals, and no navigation charts. What happens then? I'm curious.
Everyone seems to forget you have to have redundant panel-mounted avionics, both of which must work, in order to even file a commercial IFR flight plan and takeoff. You use THESE for navigation and communication, not the ipad. The ipad just provides situational awareness. Approach plates are built into your panel avionics, so losing your ipads would not have any effect on these primary systems.
Comments
Will they have to switch them off completely during take off and landing?
Yes they will.
Alaska is using is for its company manuals.
So the paper in airline flightdecks isn't quite yet gone.
I just flew across country in my private plane, using the ipad as my SOLE source for charts and plates (with backup paper, just in case). Worked beautifully, and flew many instrument approaches without a hitch. Had a charger, but didn't need it, because on the long stretches of straight and level flight, you can easily close the smart cover, to conserve battery power, if you need to, and you don't need to look at the charts except when changes to routes occur, or during takeoffs and landings. Don't forget that the aircraft avionics are doing all the flying, and the ipad is merely used for situational awareness, not for any primary flying. Software is now being tested to bring inflight weather mapping, but commercial planes have radar anyway, so, once again, an ipad enhances safety, and removes the paper chart distractions. Anything that can be done to remove workload is a benefit. I specifically bought the ipad2 to use for flying, and it has been worth every penny.
Fabulous post. Thank you.
but, but it's just a toy!!!
....and it doesn't do Flash!
I just flew across country in my private plane, using the ipad as my SOLE source for charts and plates (with backup paper, just in case). Worked beautifully, and flew many instrument approaches without a hitch. Had a charger, but didn't need it, because on the long stretches of straight and level flight, you can easily close the smart cover, to conserve battery power, if you need to, and you don't need to look at the charts except when changes to routes occur, or during takeoffs and landings. Don't forget that the aircraft avionics are doing all the flying, and the ipad is merely used for situational awareness, not for any primary flying. Software is now being tested to bring inflight weather mapping, but commercial planes have radar anyway, so, once again, an ipad enhances safety, and removes the paper chart distractions. Anything that can be done to remove workload is a benefit. I specifically bought the ipad2 to use for flying, and it has been worth every penny.
Do you use it for pre-flights and maintenance records -- are there apps for that?
United Airlines is a corporation and an enterprise. Apple is a consumer products company. Apple should not sell to enterprise customers. Apple should only sell to small businesses with less than 5 employees.
AIR, there are 5 or less people in the cockpit of most planes....
...The wording of your post reminds me of the ad on the TV, where this big guy comes on the screen and says: "I have a small business..."
Naah. Not at all,
Bad enough people are driving cars while texting.
And kids are walking down the street bumping into lamp posts while tweeting.
And train operators in California are face booking with rail fans and causing head on collisions.
By all means, let airline pilots play angry birds while flying the plane.
Welcome to the post pc era folks.
Is that all you got? Lame.
I don't think this story is quite accurate. There is no airline approved to use the iPad for approach plates. It has to be a ClassIII EFB to be used anytime the aircraft is moving.
Alaska is using is for its company manuals.
So the paper in airline flightdecks isn't quite yet gone.
Actually, we CAN use the iPad for our reference device... we just have to have paper charts available in the cockpit as well (for the time being.)... Once the iPad gets some real-life use under it's belt, I would anticipate the paper requirement to go away as well. After all there will be TWO iPads in the cockpit, so even if one somehow dies, we'll have a second available. (And that paper requirement is only for the navigation charts... the various manuals that we also have to carry will be completely replaced by the iPad almost immediately.)
does this worry anyone?
I am. Paper does not require recharging.
does this worry anyone?
I just need to know, what is the PHYSICAL BACKUP that is available in planes. As a passenger, that's all I need to know. I'm happy for iPads and what not, thrilled, in fact, but I just need to know the ANALOG BACKUP in place.
Actually, we CAN use the iPad for our reference device... we just have to have paper charts available in the cockpit as well (for the time being.)... Once the iPad gets some real-life use under it's belt, I would anticipate the paper requirement to go away as well. After all there will be TWO iPads in the cockpit, so even if one somehow dies, we'll have a second available. (And that paper requirement is only for the navigation charts... the various manuals that we also have to carry will be completely replaced by the iPad almost immediately.)
Can you explain though what happens if both iPads die? Then you have no manuals, and no navigation charts. What happens then? I'm curious.
Can you explain though what happens if both iPads die? Then you have no manuals, and no navigation charts. What happens then? I'm curious.
You will have to rely on something called PILOTING SKILLS.
Can you explain though what happens if both iPads die? Then you have no manuals, and no navigation charts. What happens then? I'm curious.
If you're worried about two iPads failing at the same time, you're getting down to a probability so low that it would be a statistical fluke. Even so, as Suddenly Newton points out, there's an incredible amount of safety redundancy in commercial aviation.
And if you're still not reassured, then perhaps you need to give up air travel for Amtrak. Of course, the odds of a train derailing while you're aboard are likely much greater than two iPads failing simultaneously.
Can you explain though what happens if both iPads die? Then you have no manuals, and no navigation charts. What happens then? I'm curious.
If you're sitting in the back?... You'll never even notice it.
The charts in the iPad (or on paper) are required to be there... They aren't really necessary to fly or navigate or land. While they do make some things easier, it can all be done without them.
(And no... They don't have to be turned off for takeoff and landing.
Actually, we CAN use the iPad for our reference device... we just have to have paper charts available in the cockpit as well (for the time being.)... Once the iPad gets some real-life use under it's belt, I would anticipate the paper requirement to go away as well. After all there will be TWO iPads in the cockpit, so even if one somehow dies, we'll have a second available. (And that paper requirement is only for the navigation charts... the various manuals that we also have to carry will be completely replaced by the iPad almost immediately.)
You won't be able to use them as approach plates any time soon.
http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...rolls-out.html
Who's software package have you been using? I see United are going for Jeppesen, but I believe there are multiple options out there.
I'm about to start flying again after a year out (taildragger training starts in 5 hours!) and was thinking about subscribing to something like this, instead of heading to the pilots shop to update all my charts/AFD etc. I'd appreciate your advice on what you've found, what you like and don't like about it etc.
Foreflight. Definitely much better and more sophisticated than Jeppesen, even compared to the newest version of Jeppesen. Get the geo-referenced version and the ipad2 is a must due to better GPS reception than ipad1. No need for external GPS antenna with ipad2.
Do you use it for pre-flights and maintenance records -- are there apps for that?
Dick, hi no i use my old laminated card for preflights, except for weight and balance app. I use Foreflight on the ground for flight planning and weather briefing. Seems the ipad only gets in the way for preflight stuff. Only use logbooks for maint stuff. Foreflight is also looking into ADS-B traffic displays but all this stuff, and weather nexrad would require two more inflight communications systems different from typical internet connectivity, so it seems far off for now. The great thing about all these apps is the ability to work independantly from internet connectivity.
Can you explain though what happens if both iPads die? Then you have no manuals, and no navigation charts. What happens then? I'm curious.
Everyone seems to forget you have to have redundant panel-mounted avionics, both of which must work, in order to even file a commercial IFR flight plan and takeoff. You use THESE for navigation and communication, not the ipad. The ipad just provides situational awareness. Approach plates are built into your panel avionics, so losing your ipads would not have any effect on these primary systems.