I think one of the things that Apple users get is a hard callous. Look, Android users either want a hacker's phone, which they make a religion, or they want something cheap - or free - phones with a two year subscription and it's a smartphone. That's fine. But I sure wish they'd quiet the ridiculous word salad of moral superiority, the "free" and "open" software from that advertising agency/data farm company. Everything's imperfect, but Apple's shown that, as a hardware seller -- they give the OS away, practically -- and they don't lock you down with authentication. They've also respected the customer's privacy to a far greater degree. That's what you get when you buy Apple. It's not that a Google phone is bad; but the "free" and "open" rhetoric is hard to take, because Apple and Jobs turn, in the Google-boy mind, into Mussolini. Gee, my definition of fascism is really different from yours. I just don't think that a fan of Apple is akin to a storm trooper. He's just using an iPhone. Most people are less likely to root their phones than to call grandma and play games and write business documents in the cloud.
as an owner of every gen of iphone, and an ipad 2 and mac minis and mac books and such, Visa and Amex dont think im an apple hater but it is absolutely a walled garden or gated community if you will...I forget who said this but the best describtion is that the web and internet in general (think wide open) is like a big city, lots of interesting things happening and artsy districts, great indy music scene, night life, farmers markets and such, with downsides like crime. iOS apps are the suburbs, low crime, cookie cutter houses and neighborhood committies that make you explain to your nosey neighbors why you want to paint your house a color other than beige, but its clean predictable and "nice" if you are into that sort of thing..
Perhaps its my libertarian side but Andriod is looking better all the time - I dont like being told that my home screen must be a grid of icons because Steve likes it that way.
Putting your metaphor aside, let me clarify something. You would rather have the ability to put Howdy Doody on your homepage and risk your personal data or bork your phone? So many people criticize Apple users for choosing form over function, but it looks to me that many Android "fans" point blank state that with pride.
Well of course you find the gated community metaphor accurate, it's exactly your kind of slightly veiled, draw-your-own conclusions slur. Not for you to just say that you think iOS is boring or for uptight white people or lacks that swashbuckling panache that all the cool kids covet. Just, you know, "different sorts of people."
But of course as metaphors go it's a hopeless hash. What things can you do with an Android phone that you can't do with an iPhone, beyond customizing some things? And how does that relate to the suburbs vs. the city again?
Not to mention the fact that he can get an iPhone and jailbreak it to get back to "the city". The process is no more difficult than the kind of things he would be doing with his phone (Android or thusly freed iPhone) anyway. And if the point is "I shouldn't have to take this one little step. It should come this way out of the box", then I would answer this: in that case, the kinds of people that WANT security would have to go through a technical procedure in order to make their phones less technical. That's bass-ackwards, as I'm sure anybody can tell. Simple users outnumber the power users by a large margin. They just want to use their cool gear, not maintain it.
The current arrangement (i.e. that iPhones ship in the walled garden and power users can break them free) satisfies the majority of people. So what's left for a "purist" to complain about in practice? The only thing left to complain about is philosophy.
I think one of the things that Apple users get is a hard callous. Look, Android users either want a hacker's phone, which they make a religion, or they want something cheap - or free - phones with a two year subscription and it's a smartphone. That's fine. But I sure wish they'd quiet the ridiculous word salad of moral superiority, the "free" and "open" software from that advertising agency/data farm company. Everything's imperfect, but Apple's shown that, as a hardware seller -- they give the OS away, practically -- and they don't lock you down with authentication. They've also respected the customer's privacy to a far greater degree. That's what you get when you buy Apple. It's not that a Google phone is bad; but the "free" and "open" rhetoric is hard to take, because Apple and Jobs turn, in the Google-boy mind, into Mussolini. Gee, my definition of fascism is really different from yours. I just don't think that a fan of Apple is akin to a storm trooper. He's just using an iPhone. Most people are less likely to root their phones than to call grandma and play games and write business documents in the cloud.
Agree with what you said here, and I'll add again what I've said earlier: even if one accepts the Android fan's argument against "walled gardens" on a philosophical level, the argument falls apart in practice, because they can STILL get an iPhone and easily make it into what they want it to be. Sure, then you take the maintenance and support into your own hands, but that's not really much different than the Hardware Vendor / Software Vendor / Telco Carrier run around that you get with Android today. Google wasn't even ready to support its own branded Nexus phone when they began selling it. WTF?!?! These guys are truly wild west.
So other than cost, as you mentioned, there really is no practical argument for Android fans to put down iOS at this point. (They may still want to grouse over the limited hardware feature set of iPhones, but I find the lacking features unpractical too.)
And if the point is "I shouldn't have to take this one little step. It should come this way out of the box",
I'll add to that point by saying that that argument isn't even true because every Android "geek" crows about how s/he can "root" his/her device and load custom ROMs and even denigrate certain handset brands like Motorola who make that process more difficult. None of that is "out of the box."
Well this isn't really about Apple haters, it's about Android haters. How else would you describe people that do not use Android, yet spend a lot of time trying to convince others how insecure Android is? Do you really believe that anyone on Android fan sites spends time discussing how much iOS sucks? Newsflash: not everyone needs constant reassurance.
Yea I by there is a lot of ios sucks on fandroid forums. Otherwise they would be pretty boring places in my opinion.
Now, I gotta say that what has already been said - android has a lot of app stores, so there are bound to be problems like this. Apples compromise approach to app approval works well enough for me.
Out of curiosity, what is it exactly that makes GMail 'far, far beyond anything Apple has offered' in terms of security? I have GMail myself, and as far as I know, the only thing I can think of that makes GMail trivially more secure than MobileMe, is that you have to answer a 'secret' question if you want to re-set your password. Hardly airtight, as history has prove a million times (secret questions are useless since the answers are usually extremely easy to figure out).
From my point of view MobileMe and GMail are equally secure, both have the same weakest link, which is the password. Get the password, and you're toast. Trying to guess passwords or actually hack into the system are not really worthwhile for anyone anyway, seeing how many people are so easily tricked by some trivial fishing.
Obviously Google needs to do a better job of advertising its two step authentication if you haven't heard of it.
Basically, you tie your mobile phone to your Google account and when you try to sign in it will send a text message to your phone containing a code that you must enter in order to sign in. This happens after you have supplied the correct password, so even if someone found out your password they would also need access to your phone to get into your account.
There are also iOS and Android apps that can skip the text message part and just generate a code for you and display it on the screen. Setup is really easy.
Anyone using GMail who has not enabled this feature really should do so now. It improves account security so much.
Well of course you find the gated community metaphor accurate, it's exactly your kind of slightly veiled, draw-your-own conclusions slur.
Please don't attack me personally.
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox
Not for you to just say that you think iOS is boring or for uptight white people or lacks that swashbuckling panache that all the cool kids covet.
Please don't put words in my mouth. None of those things match my viewpoint.
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox
]There's no reason why a well planned city with well enforced zoning can't be vibrant, exciting, diverse and engaging, just as there's no particular reason that a poorly planned/regulated city is somehow going to take on cool bohemian vibe that flatters one's sense of being a roguish player.
Unless you think Huston is mecca for free thinking?
I have no opinion on whether or not Huston is a mecca for free thinking. I worked in land use and zoning for years, and I think urban planning is essential. I've been to cities with little or no zoning laws, and from what I saw, they were crappy. I support historic district designations, et. al.
I'm not remotely attacking you personally, I'm making a point about the sometimes unspoken or slightly vieled but unmistakable bias in your postings. You maintain an attitude of cool detachment (I'm talking about the nature of your posting, not you) while tending strongly towards finding fault with Apple and defending Apple's competitors. Since your'e doing this on an Apple enthusiast site, while sporting what I have to imagine is intended as an ironic name, I'm struck that you might qualify as "insecure" as defined by you in an earlier post.
Quote:
Please don't put words in my mouth. None of those things match my viewpoint.
Fair enough, but endorsing the "Apple is a gated suburb vs. Android is the messy but vital city" carries a clear prejudice that at least resembles my gloss. As I went on to say, it's a pretty foolish equivalency that says more about the people that subscribe to it does about the platforms in question.
Quote:
I have no opinion on whether or not Huston is a mecca for free thinking. I worked in land use and zoning for years, and I think urban planning is essential. I've been to cities with little or no zoning laws, and from what I saw, they were crappy. I support historic district designations, et. al.
You don't know a damn thing about me.
Have you ever seen "Real Life" with Albert Brooks? There's a scene towards the end where he's been called on the carpet by the producers of his disastrous documentary and someone suggests that he's trying to fly a jumbo jet without knowing how to fly a Cessna. He indignantly responds that he in fact has has his flying certificate, to which a producer suggests that he's missing the point. He launches into a hilarious diatribe about his frequent flyer miles, his gold pass to the VIP club at numerous airports and his personal relationships with airline pilots, finishing with a withering "missing your point."
Put that together with your thought, and ISTM inevitable that you must think that most current smartphone buyers are "juvenile angry young men with a chip on their shoulder".
You may be correct, but I have severe doubts. Got anything other than your thinking process to justify that conclusion?
Then I suppose, most car drivers choose the hyundai sonata based on your logic....Choosing does imply preferring!
They choose FREE or CHEAP, not android.... Not because they prefer it, but because of their constraints! Big difference!
Then I suppose, most car drivers choose the hyundai sonata based on your logic....Choosing does imply preferring!
They choose FREE or CHEAP, not android.... Not because they prefer it, but because of their constraints! Big difference!
That's a big claim. What evidence do you have that most buyers don't really want an Android phone, just stuck with one because they can't afford Apple?
Been using Android since around 2007, not one instance of Malware on any of my devices.
With a little bit of intelligence on where you source your apps, the kind of apps you install and checking out app permissions, you can easily avoid any trouble.
Some many need someone else to wipe their bottoms and that's cool, I'm big enough, clever enough and ugly enough to wipe my own thanks.
But when it comes to this you are actually in a minority and that is the problem, the vast majority don't understand technology & then many exploits also use those people to reach out to their circle of friends & family. I don't want my info shared with others & so when anyone in my circle of friends or family comes showing me their flashy new Android system I get a bit nervous.
Does it matter to me that people use Android? Heck yes it does!! What you do doesn't just effect you, it effects everyone around you. Luckily for your friends you have some technical sense about you, I'm not always so lucky in mine.
I wonder if apple haters will try and claim this is still just security through obscurity?
In reality, secured app store, aka "walled-gardens" FTW.
Funny, because Android is about choice! Android can be a walled garden too - and you won't get any malware.
But because Android is about choice, you can venture out of the walled garden. Malware is an unfortunate side effect - but if you don't want to deal with it, you don't have to venture out! Simple really.
What's more strange is the constant bagging of Android here. On Android forums iOS doesn't even rate a mention. Nobody cares about it! Sounds like some people are very threatened!
Excuse me, but how is that application even remotely classifiable as malware?
It's an app that is intentionally crafted to deceive uses into parting with their cash.
Sure the payload is small (99c per user) but the overall impact would be larger than anything on Android.
I'd say there is some malicious intent behind that.
If you honestly think there is nothing wrong what these guys did you should go and put a bunch of $599 items on eBay listed as "64GB Apple iPad 2 WIFI 3G" with images of an iPad 2.
Then, somewhere in the description, write "This item is a picture of an iPad 2" and when someone wins a bid send them a photo of an iPad 2.
Funny, because Android is about choice! Android can be a walled garden too - and you won't get any malware.
But because Android is about choice, you can venture out of the walled garden. Malware is an unfortunate side effect - but if you don't want to deal with it, you don't have to venture out! Simple really.
What's more strange is the constant bagging of Android here. On Android forums iOS doesn't even rate a mention. Nobody cares about it! Sounds like some people are very threatened!
The big difference between Android sites and here is that there aren't any iOS partisans on Android sites telling everyone they're wrong. Insecure, you say?
You know why there's less talk about iOS on Android sites? Because a bunch of whiny ass, emotionally stunted iOS users don't see any reason to register on Android sites so they can tell everyone about how wrong they are.
Christ, and you assholes want to talk about insecure? It's like a sick joke. Really, get a fucking life, loser.
Exactly! I've said it before, that prior Apple's big, recent successes, there was none of the angst that the waste of time trolls have brought to the site. For most of my time here, there wasn't a single member on my ban list (yes, even Tekstud), now that list is extensive with the names of trolls who are here to rip apple and nothing else.
I for one, do not care one bit about Android, have never been to an Android site to comment and only hear about it here from trolls.
On the other hand, when I bring out my iPhone amidst a certain set of acquaintances, the ripping is on again. I do not care.
Comments
as an owner of every gen of iphone, and an ipad 2 and mac minis and mac books and such, Visa and Amex dont think im an apple hater but it is absolutely a walled garden or gated community if you will...I forget who said this but the best describtion is that the web and internet in general (think wide open) is like a big city, lots of interesting things happening and artsy districts, great indy music scene, night life, farmers markets and such, with downsides like crime. iOS apps are the suburbs, low crime, cookie cutter houses and neighborhood committies that make you explain to your nosey neighbors why you want to paint your house a color other than beige, but its clean predictable and "nice" if you are into that sort of thing..
Perhaps its my libertarian side but Andriod is looking better all the time - I dont like being told that my home screen must be a grid of icons because Steve likes it that way.
Putting your metaphor aside, let me clarify something. You would rather have the ability to put Howdy Doody on your homepage and risk your personal data or bork your phone? So many people criticize Apple users for choosing form over function, but it looks to me that many Android "fans" point blank state that with pride.
Well of course you find the gated community metaphor accurate, it's exactly your kind of slightly veiled, draw-your-own conclusions slur. Not for you to just say that you think iOS is boring or for uptight white people or lacks that swashbuckling panache that all the cool kids covet. Just, you know, "different sorts of people."
But of course as metaphors go it's a hopeless hash. What things can you do with an Android phone that you can't do with an iPhone, beyond customizing some things? And how does that relate to the suburbs vs. the city again?
Not to mention the fact that he can get an iPhone and jailbreak it to get back to "the city". The process is no more difficult than the kind of things he would be doing with his phone (Android or thusly freed iPhone) anyway. And if the point is "I shouldn't have to take this one little step. It should come this way out of the box", then I would answer this: in that case, the kinds of people that WANT security would have to go through a technical procedure in order to make their phones less technical. That's bass-ackwards, as I'm sure anybody can tell. Simple users outnumber the power users by a large margin. They just want to use their cool gear, not maintain it.
The current arrangement (i.e. that iPhones ship in the walled garden and power users can break them free) satisfies the majority of people. So what's left for a "purist" to complain about in practice? The only thing left to complain about is philosophy.
Thompson
I think one of the things that Apple users get is a hard callous. Look, Android users either want a hacker's phone, which they make a religion, or they want something cheap - or free - phones with a two year subscription and it's a smartphone. That's fine. But I sure wish they'd quiet the ridiculous word salad of moral superiority, the "free" and "open" software from that advertising agency/data farm company. Everything's imperfect, but Apple's shown that, as a hardware seller -- they give the OS away, practically -- and they don't lock you down with authentication. They've also respected the customer's privacy to a far greater degree. That's what you get when you buy Apple. It's not that a Google phone is bad; but the "free" and "open" rhetoric is hard to take, because Apple and Jobs turn, in the Google-boy mind, into Mussolini. Gee, my definition of fascism is really different from yours. I just don't think that a fan of Apple is akin to a storm trooper. He's just using an iPhone. Most people are less likely to root their phones than to call grandma and play games and write business documents in the cloud.
Agree with what you said here, and I'll add again what I've said earlier: even if one accepts the Android fan's argument against "walled gardens" on a philosophical level, the argument falls apart in practice, because they can STILL get an iPhone and easily make it into what they want it to be. Sure, then you take the maintenance and support into your own hands, but that's not really much different than the Hardware Vendor / Software Vendor / Telco Carrier run around that you get with Android today. Google wasn't even ready to support its own branded Nexus phone when they began selling it. WTF?!?! These guys are truly wild west.
So other than cost, as you mentioned, there really is no practical argument for Android fans to put down iOS at this point. (They may still want to grouse over the limited hardware feature set of iPhones, but I find the lacking features unpractical too.)
Thompson
And if the point is "I shouldn't have to take this one little step. It should come this way out of the box",
I'll add to that point by saying that that argument isn't even true because every Android "geek" crows about how s/he can "root" his/her device and load custom ROMs and even denigrate certain handset brands like Motorola who make that process more difficult. None of that is "out of the box."
Well this isn't really about Apple haters, it's about Android haters. How else would you describe people that do not use Android, yet spend a lot of time trying to convince others how insecure Android is? Do you really believe that anyone on Android fan sites spends time discussing how much iOS sucks? Newsflash: not everyone needs constant reassurance.
Yea I by there is a lot of ios sucks on fandroid forums. Otherwise they would be pretty boring places in my opinion.
Now, I gotta say that what has already been said - android has a lot of app stores, so there are bound to be problems like this. Apples compromise approach to app approval works well enough for me.
Out of curiosity, what is it exactly that makes GMail 'far, far beyond anything Apple has offered' in terms of security? I have GMail myself, and as far as I know, the only thing I can think of that makes GMail trivially more secure than MobileMe, is that you have to answer a 'secret' question if you want to re-set your password. Hardly airtight, as history has prove a million times (secret questions are useless since the answers are usually extremely easy to figure out).
From my point of view MobileMe and GMail are equally secure, both have the same weakest link, which is the password. Get the password, and you're toast. Trying to guess passwords or actually hack into the system are not really worthwhile for anyone anyway, seeing how many people are so easily tricked by some trivial fishing.
Obviously Google needs to do a better job of advertising its two step authentication if you haven't heard of it.
Basically, you tie your mobile phone to your Google account and when you try to sign in it will send a text message to your phone containing a code that you must enter in order to sign in. This happens after you have supplied the correct password, so even if someone found out your password they would also need access to your phone to get into your account.
There are also iOS and Android apps that can skip the text message part and just generate a code for you and display it on the screen. Setup is really easy.
Anyone using GMail who has not enabled this feature really should do so now. It improves account security so much.
Well of course you find the gated community metaphor accurate, it's exactly your kind of slightly veiled, draw-your-own conclusions slur.
Please don't attack me personally.
Not for you to just say that you think iOS is boring or for uptight white people or lacks that swashbuckling panache that all the cool kids covet.
Please don't put words in my mouth. None of those things match my viewpoint.
]There's no reason why a well planned city with well enforced zoning can't be vibrant, exciting, diverse and engaging, just as there's no particular reason that a poorly planned/regulated city is somehow going to take on cool bohemian vibe that flatters one's sense of being a roguish player.
Unless you think Huston is mecca for free thinking?
I have no opinion on whether or not Huston is a mecca for free thinking. I worked in land use and zoning for years, and I think urban planning is essential. I've been to cities with little or no zoning laws, and from what I saw, they were crappy. I support historic district designations, et. al.
You don't know a damn thing about me.
Well of course you find the gated community metaphor accurate, it's exactly your kind of slightly veiled, draw-your-own conclusions slur.
Please don't attack me personally.
Man the fuck up!
Please don't attack me personally.
I'm not remotely attacking you personally, I'm making a point about the sometimes unspoken or slightly vieled but unmistakable bias in your postings. You maintain an attitude of cool detachment (I'm talking about the nature of your posting, not you) while tending strongly towards finding fault with Apple and defending Apple's competitors. Since your'e doing this on an Apple enthusiast site, while sporting what I have to imagine is intended as an ironic name, I'm struck that you might qualify as "insecure" as defined by you in an earlier post.
Please don't put words in my mouth. None of those things match my viewpoint.
Fair enough, but endorsing the "Apple is a gated suburb vs. Android is the messy but vital city" carries a clear prejudice that at least resembles my gloss. As I went on to say, it's a pretty foolish equivalency that says more about the people that subscribe to it does about the platforms in question.
I have no opinion on whether or not Huston is a mecca for free thinking. I worked in land use and zoning for years, and I think urban planning is essential. I've been to cities with little or no zoning laws, and from what I saw, they were crappy. I support historic district designations, et. al.
You don't know a damn thing about me.
Have you ever seen "Real Life" with Albert Brooks? There's a scene towards the end where he's been called on the carpet by the producers of his disastrous documentary and someone suggests that he's trying to fly a jumbo jet without knowing how to fly a Cessna. He indignantly responds that he in fact has has his flying certificate, to which a producer suggests that he's missing the point. He launches into a hilarious diatribe about his frequent flyer miles, his gold pass to the VIP club at numerous airports and his personal relationships with airline pilots, finishing with a withering "missing your point."
Well, that.
Reality: Most smartphone buyers choose Android.
Put that together with your thought, and ISTM inevitable that you must think that most current smartphone buyers are "juvenile angry young men with a chip on their shoulder".
You may be correct, but I have severe doubts. Got anything other than your thinking process to justify that conclusion?
Then I suppose, most car drivers choose the hyundai sonata based on your logic....Choosing does imply preferring!
They choose FREE or CHEAP, not android.... Not because they prefer it, but because of their constraints! Big difference!
Then I suppose, most car drivers choose the hyundai sonata based on your logic....Choosing does imply preferring!
They choose FREE or CHEAP, not android.... Not because they prefer it, but because of their constraints! Big difference!
That's a big claim. What evidence do you have that most buyers don't really want an Android phone, just stuck with one because they can't afford Apple?
I wonder if apple haters will try and claim this is still just security through obscurity?
In reality, secured app store, aka "walled-gardens" FTW.
+1000 for you
it's not our fault android is sh1tty. :d
+1
Been using Android since around 2007, not one instance of Malware on any of my devices.
With a little bit of intelligence on where you source your apps, the kind of apps you install and checking out app permissions, you can easily avoid any trouble.
Some many need someone else to wipe their bottoms and that's cool, I'm big enough, clever enough and ugly enough
But when it comes to this you are actually in a minority and that is the problem, the vast majority don't understand technology & then many exploits also use those people to reach out to their circle of friends & family. I don't want my info shared with others & so when anyone in my circle of friends or family comes showing me their flashy new Android system I get a bit nervous.
Does it matter to me that people use Android? Heck yes it does!! What you do doesn't just effect you, it effects everyone around you. Luckily for your friends you have some technical sense about you, I'm not always so lucky in mine.
I wonder if apple haters will try and claim this is still just security through obscurity?
In reality, secured app store, aka "walled-gardens" FTW.
Funny, because Android is about choice! Android can be a walled garden too - and you won't get any malware.
But because Android is about choice, you can venture out of the walled garden. Malware is an unfortunate side effect - but if you don't want to deal with it, you don't have to venture out! Simple really.
What's more strange is the constant bagging of Android here. On Android forums iOS doesn't even rate a mention. Nobody cares about it! Sounds like some people are very threatened!
Fair enough, but endorsing the "Apple is a gated suburb vs. Android is the messy but vital city"
No - Android is more like the gated community, that you can leave if you like.
iOS is more like a gaol that you can't leave - even if you want to!
I guess they call it "Jailbreaking" for a reason..............
Excuse me, but how is that application even remotely classifiable as malware?
It's an app that is intentionally crafted to deceive uses into parting with their cash.
Sure the payload is small (99c per user) but the overall impact would be larger than anything on Android.
I'd say there is some malicious intent behind that.
If you honestly think there is nothing wrong what these guys did you should go and put a bunch of $599 items on eBay listed as "64GB Apple iPad 2 WIFI 3G" with images of an iPad 2.
Then, somewhere in the description, write "This item is a picture of an iPad 2" and when someone wins a bid send them a photo of an iPad 2.
I'm sure that would go down really well
Funny, because Android is about choice! Android can be a walled garden too - and you won't get any malware.
But because Android is about choice, you can venture out of the walled garden. Malware is an unfortunate side effect - but if you don't want to deal with it, you don't have to venture out! Simple really.
What's more strange is the constant bagging of Android here. On Android forums iOS doesn't even rate a mention. Nobody cares about it! Sounds like some people are very threatened!
The big difference between Android sites and here is that there aren't any iOS partisans on Android sites telling everyone they're wrong. Insecure, you say?
You know why there's less talk about iOS on Android sites? Because a bunch of whiny ass, emotionally stunted iOS users don't see any reason to register on Android sites so they can tell everyone about how wrong they are.
Christ, and you assholes want to talk about insecure? It's like a sick joke. Really, get a fucking life, loser.
Exactly! I've said it before, that prior Apple's big, recent successes, there was none of the angst that the waste of time trolls have brought to the site. For most of my time here, there wasn't a single member on my ban list (yes, even Tekstud), now that list is extensive with the names of trolls who are here to rip apple and nothing else.
I for one, do not care one bit about Android, have never been to an Android site to comment and only hear about it here from trolls.
On the other hand, when I bring out my iPhone amidst a certain set of acquaintances, the ripping is on again. I do not care.