If china was held to the same standards as the US on this stuff, maybe it wouldn't be quite so attractive for outsourcing The only reason the US ever sent stuff over there was for cost...and not worrying about pollution is a cost cutting measure.
Apple and many others US companies manufactured in Ireland not so long ago because of very attractive tax levels for foreign companies to set up there at the time. Ireland has all the same standards as the US otherwise, so for Apple IMO it's not about low standards, just costs.
I know I exaggerate a bit - but my first thought was, "Love it." Years ago companies started to manufacture in places where the cost-of-manufacture was lower than in the U.S. There is a certain threshold that when reached, companies start looking at pulling back. Has China reached that point - were manufacturing cost is, let's say, to pick a number, 70 percent of the cost in the U.S.?
If not, they are closing the gap really fast. Foxconn recognizes that danger. It is thinking of adding its of robots to their lines. Is a Chinese robot really that much cheaper than one that "works" in the US? What if Apple would quietly install robies in their old set of manufacturing buildings in Sacramento, CA. I give them (the Chinese) five more years to have a run with it. After that who knows. Can't wait to see on the label "Designed by Apple in California, assembled in California."
You forgot to add at the very end ... 'By Americans.' Let us not forget all the US companies who thrive on immigrant labor in CA, legal and illegal.
"Apple found guilty of sacrificing babies and clubbing seals to improve their products"
AI commenter: Those babies probably deserved it!
Apple's made a HUGE deal about how much they care for the environment with the US and international press. They also include an Environmental Status report in the product page of all of their devices (good marketing there).
The problem (and it's NOT just a problem with apple) is that a lot of these certifications are around the final product only, and don't take things like Manufacturing or Shipping into account. And why should they? The average consumer only cares about the "feel good" aspects of environmentalism and that it won't poison a well when they throw it away.
Maybe there is more to this story. There often is.
But this organisation already got over two dozen other major companies to play ball, which leads me to believe that their demands aren't excessive when it comes to profitability. Few companies in the world can claim the profit margins on products like Apple can, and if these lower-margin companies can align with the new plan, it should be cake for apple.
But none of that matters. All most of you will see is "OMG Someone's attacking Apple!"
Yes that was my first thought ... and Apple is considered a priority? I hope this isn't the first move in a Chinese anti-Apple move to followed by legalized clones.
29 other companies signed before Apple. How does that make Apple a priority?
I know I exaggerate a bit - but my first thought was, "Love it." Years ago companies started to manufacture in places where the cost-of-manufacture was lower than in the U.S. There is a certain threshold that when reached, companies start looking at pulling back. Has China reached that point - were manufacturing cost is, let's say, to pick a number, 70 percent of the cost in the U.S.?
If not, they are closing the gap really fast. Foxconn recognizes that danger. It is thinking of adding its of robots to their lines. Is a Chinese robot really that much cheaper than one that "works" in the US? What if Apple would quietly install robies in their old set of manufacturing buildings in Sacramento, CA. I give them (the Chinese) five more years to have a run with it. After that who knows. Can't wait to see on the label "Designed by Apple in California, assembled in California."
Actually, a chinese robot facility would be cheaper in china, as long as China maintains lax zoning and pollution laws.
The real expense to making things in the US is the Red Tape. Labor is more expensive, yes. But it's the laws, taxes, and limitations that currently make it unprofitable.
Interesting that this comes shortly after the release of the US embassy documents describing how hard it was for Apple to gain government assistance in China against counterfeiters. Remember that no group remains operational in China without the government's consent - certainly no "environmental group" or groups. They are just alternative spokes-groups for the government to keep Apple off-balance and amenable to working within the customs and expectations of the Chinese culture and government control.
No one gets to criticize the Chinese government without repercussions - certainly no company from outside China as popular as Apple is. No, this is Beijing's way of making sure that Apple is drawing fire - real or imagined so they can keep control. Several of my associates come from China and they provide a unique (if necessarily discrete) perspective on these news items.
Interesting that this comes shortly after the release of the US embassy documents describing how hard it was for Apple to gain government assistance in China against counterfeiters. Remember that no group remains operational in China without the government's consent - certainly no "environmental group" or groups. They are just alternative spokes-groups for the government to keep Apple off-balance and amenable to working within the customs and expectations of the Chinese culture and government control.
No one gets to criticize the Chinese government without repercussions - certainly no company from outside China as popular as Apple is. No, this is Beijing's way of making sure that Apple is drawing fire - real or imagined so they can keep control. Several of my associates come from China and they provide a unique (if necessarily discrete) perspective on these news items.
This would make sense if the organisation hadn't already approached (and successfully reached agreements with) 29 other major companies.
No one gets to criticize the Chinese government without repercussions - certainly no company from outside China as popular as Apple is. No, this is Beijing's way of making sure that Apple is drawing fire - real or imagined so they can keep control. Several of my associates come from China and they provide a unique (if necessarily discrete) perspective on these news items.
Then your Chinese associates must have thought Google was nuts if they thought calling out the Chinese for hacking into dissenter emails and US corporate sites was going to succeed in getting any changes.
OF COURSE these things are done due to lax environmental rules in developing countries. Look at the label inside your leather jacket. It was made in China, India, or Mexico. Leather tanning is a nasty chemical process. Remember the John Travolta film "A Civil Action", where he plays a lawyer prosecuting a case in PA, I think, where people were getting sick because of the local leather tannery dumping chemicals into the ground? We've got an old defunct tannery here in western Michigan that's an EPA Superfund site. That industry went overseas because no one in the U.S. wanted to pay to do the tanning in an environmental manner. So it was shipped overseas where it doesn't have to be done in an environmental manner. Yet. Eventually the Chinese will get tired of getting leukemia from pollution, and will make stricter environmental laws. And the price of Chinese goods will go up.
Same thing with chrome plating. That's a nasty chemical process that's usually done outside of the U.S. for the same reasons.
If it were done in the U.S., it would take a lot to make these things in an environmental manner. Clean-up costs would drive the cost of things like your iPad up. And people don't want to pay more. So these processes are done in countries where you can just dump the chemicals rather than clean them up.
As for blaming Apple -- this is very reminiscent of the case with Nike in the '80s or '90s. Nike doesn't make anything, they just contract with manufacturers overseas, often China. Some of their suppliers were using child labor, and rights groups went after Nike. Nike said, "it's not our fault, we don't run the plants, they do." Their claims of ignorance didn't go over well.
Lol. I remember this: Apple comes up with products that are free of all kinds of chemicals and greenpeace says they are the worst polluters. Something like a month later they revise the report giving apple pretty high marks.
Just a publicity stunt for the institute making this claim.
Then your Chinese associates must have thought Google was nuts if they thought calling out the Chinese for hacking into dissenter emails and US corporate sites was going to succeed in getting any changes.
This would make sense if the organisation hadn't already approached (and successfully reached agreements with) 29 other major companies.
From the Financial Times article (and isn't odd that the FT are reporting this after getting their hands slapped on the App Store thing? - just pondering that one) cited by AI:
Quote:
The groups have sought to persuade 29 big electronics brands over the past year to work with them on containing pollution in their supply chain, but singled out Apple as unresponsive.(emphasis mine)
In a highly unusual move for Apple, the company relented just hours before the report’s publication, inviting Mr Ma to start a dialogue on his allegations. Mr Ma said Apple told him some of the factories on his list were not the US company’s suppliers but gave him no details.
So note that in fact they did not say that the 29 companies complied - they only reported "singling out Apple as unresponsive" and they went ahead and published the report anyway. Never mind that Apple claimed that some of the suppliers weren't even making parts for Apple and that - as cited later in the same article:
Quote:
In its latest supplier responsibility report, the company said 2010 audits had found that 80 facilities were not storing or handling hazardous chemicals properly. Apple’s report said the company required the non-compliant facilities to correct their hazardous waste handling, storage and disposal practices and to maintain documentation of these operations.
No, these activists, just like Greenpeace, are reaching out to the highest profile company to make a media splash, and even if they are not directly involved with the Chinese government, they may not be getting the kind of government regulatory traction they want and decided to use the client companies instead to generate attention. Notice no other company besides Apple was mentioned. Usually a flag.
From the Financial Times article (and isn't odd that the FT are reporting this after getting their hands slapped on the App Store thing? - just pondering that one) cited by AI:
So note that in fact they did not say that the 29 companies complied - they only reported "singling out Apple as unresponsive" and they went ahead and published the report anyway. Never mind that Apple claimed that some of the suppliers weren't even making parts for Apple and that - as cited later in the same article:
No, these activists, just like Greenpeace, are reaching out to the highest profile company to make a media splash, and even if they are not directly involved with the Chinese government, they may not be getting the kind of government regulatory traction they want and decided to use the client companies instead to generate attention. Notice no other company besides Apple was mentioned. Usually a flag.
Apple's also a company, as I mentioned earlier, that makes a BIG DEAL about their environmental policies. So them not complying isn't just a issue with them allegedly not caring about the environment, but also could be construed as false advertising, since they're using environmentalism to try and sell devices.
Yes, Apple claimed that some of the suppliers weren't making components for them, but didn't provide further detail.
Seriously, it could come out that Apple used their computers to club baby seals as a form of stress testing, and you guys would still be defending their actions. Not even the most rabid Android/Windows/Nokia/WebOS/etc site goes that far.
Comments
If china was held to the same standards as the US on this stuff, maybe it wouldn't be quite so attractive for outsourcing
Apple and many others US companies manufactured in Ireland not so long ago because of very attractive tax levels for foreign companies to set up there at the time. Ireland has all the same standards as the US otherwise, so for Apple IMO it's not about low standards, just costs.
I know I exaggerate a bit - but my first thought was, "Love it." Years ago companies started to manufacture in places where the cost-of-manufacture was lower than in the U.S. There is a certain threshold that when reached, companies start looking at pulling back. Has China reached that point - were manufacturing cost is, let's say, to pick a number, 70 percent of the cost in the U.S.?
If not, they are closing the gap really fast. Foxconn recognizes that danger. It is thinking of adding its of robots to their lines. Is a Chinese robot really that much cheaper than one that "works" in the US? What if Apple would quietly install robies in their old set of manufacturing buildings in Sacramento, CA. I give them (the Chinese) five more years to have a run with it. After that who knows. Can't wait to see on the label "Designed by Apple in California, assembled in California."
You forgot to add at the very end ... 'By Americans.' Let us not forget all the US companies who thrive on immigrant labor in CA, legal and illegal.
AI commenter: Those babies probably deserved it!
Apple's made a HUGE deal about how much they care for the environment with the US and international press. They also include an Environmental Status report in the product page of all of their devices (good marketing there).
The problem (and it's NOT just a problem with apple) is that a lot of these certifications are around the final product only, and don't take things like Manufacturing or Shipping into account. And why should they? The average consumer only cares about the "feel good" aspects of environmentalism and that it won't poison a well when they throw it away.
Maybe there is more to this story. There often is.
But this organisation already got over two dozen other major companies to play ball, which leads me to believe that their demands aren't excessive when it comes to profitability. Few companies in the world can claim the profit margins on products like Apple can, and if these lower-margin companies can align with the new plan, it should be cake for apple.
But none of that matters. All most of you will see is "OMG Someone's attacking Apple!"
Yes that was my first thought ... and Apple is considered a priority?
29 other companies signed before Apple. How does that make Apple a priority?
I know I exaggerate a bit - but my first thought was, "Love it." Years ago companies started to manufacture in places where the cost-of-manufacture was lower than in the U.S. There is a certain threshold that when reached, companies start looking at pulling back. Has China reached that point - were manufacturing cost is, let's say, to pick a number, 70 percent of the cost in the U.S.?
If not, they are closing the gap really fast. Foxconn recognizes that danger. It is thinking of adding its of robots to their lines. Is a Chinese robot really that much cheaper than one that "works" in the US? What if Apple would quietly install robies in their old set of manufacturing buildings in Sacramento, CA. I give them (the Chinese) five more years to have a run with it. After that who knows. Can't wait to see on the label "Designed by Apple in California, assembled in California."
Actually, a chinese robot facility would be cheaper in china, as long as China maintains lax zoning and pollution laws.
The real expense to making things in the US is the Red Tape. Labor is more expensive, yes. But it's the laws, taxes, and limitations that currently make it unprofitable.
No one gets to criticize the Chinese government without repercussions - certainly no company from outside China as popular as Apple is. No, this is Beijing's way of making sure that Apple is drawing fire - real or imagined so they can keep control. Several of my associates come from China and they provide a unique (if necessarily discrete) perspective on these news items.
Interesting that this comes shortly after the release of the US embassy documents describing how hard it was for Apple to gain government assistance in China against counterfeiters. Remember that no group remains operational in China without the government's consent - certainly no "environmental group" or groups. They are just alternative spokes-groups for the government to keep Apple off-balance and amenable to working within the customs and expectations of the Chinese culture and government control.
No one gets to criticize the Chinese government without repercussions - certainly no company from outside China as popular as Apple is. No, this is Beijing's way of making sure that Apple is drawing fire - real or imagined so they can keep control. Several of my associates come from China and they provide a unique (if necessarily discrete) perspective on these news items.
This would make sense if the organisation hadn't already approached (and successfully reached agreements with) 29 other major companies.
No one gets to criticize the Chinese government without repercussions - certainly no company from outside China as popular as Apple is. No, this is Beijing's way of making sure that Apple is drawing fire - real or imagined so they can keep control. Several of my associates come from China and they provide a unique (if necessarily discrete) perspective on these news items.
Then your Chinese associates must have thought Google was nuts if they thought calling out the Chinese for hacking into dissenter emails and US corporate sites was going to succeed in getting any changes.
/s
29 other companies signed before Apple. How does that make Apple a priority?
Think we have a miscommunication here.
You forgot to add at the very end ... 'By Americans.' Let us not forget all the US companies who thrive on immigrant labor in CA, legal and illegal.
At least iPads will be made by americans soon in 2012 and will read as follow: Designed by Apple in California, Assembled in Brazil.
USA is NOT the whole freaking continent, NOT the only ones with the right to call themselves "americans"
Same thing with chrome plating. That's a nasty chemical process that's usually done outside of the U.S. for the same reasons.
If it were done in the U.S., it would take a lot to make these things in an environmental manner. Clean-up costs would drive the cost of things like your iPad up. And people don't want to pay more. So these processes are done in countries where you can just dump the chemicals rather than clean them up.
As for blaming Apple -- this is very reminiscent of the case with Nike in the '80s or '90s. Nike doesn't make anything, they just contract with manufacturers overseas, often China. Some of their suppliers were using child labor, and rights groups went after Nike. Nike said, "it's not our fault, we don't run the plants, they do." Their claims of ignorance didn't go over well.
Just a publicity stunt for the institute making this claim.
Then your Chinese associates must have thought Google was nuts if they thought calling out the Chinese for hacking into dissenter emails and US corporate sites was going to succeed in getting any changes.
..it was a source of amusement.
This is funny coming from the #1 polluting country. Blame other for their lack of vision and responsibility......
Smells like a plain ole case of shakedown to me. Apple must be saying no to somebody,..
This would make sense if the organisation hadn't already approached (and successfully reached agreements with) 29 other major companies.
From the Financial Times article (and isn't odd that the FT are reporting this after getting their hands slapped on the App Store thing? - just pondering that one) cited by AI:
The groups have sought to persuade 29 big electronics brands over the past year to work with them on containing pollution in their supply chain, but singled out Apple as unresponsive.(emphasis mine)
In a highly unusual move for Apple, the company relented just hours before the report’s publication, inviting Mr Ma to start a dialogue on his allegations. Mr Ma said Apple told him some of the factories on his list were not the US company’s suppliers but gave him no details.
So note that in fact they did not say that the 29 companies complied - they only reported "singling out Apple as unresponsive" and they went ahead and published the report anyway. Never mind that Apple claimed that some of the suppliers weren't even making parts for Apple and that - as cited later in the same article:
In its latest supplier responsibility report, the company said 2010 audits had found that 80 facilities were not storing or handling hazardous chemicals properly. Apple’s report said the company required the non-compliant facilities to correct their hazardous waste handling, storage and disposal practices and to maintain documentation of these operations.
No, these activists, just like Greenpeace, are reaching out to the highest profile company to make a media splash, and even if they are not directly involved with the Chinese government, they may not be getting the kind of government regulatory traction they want and decided to use the client companies instead to generate attention. Notice no other company besides Apple was mentioned. Usually a flag.
Um, you do know that Apple computers haven't been manufactured anywhere outside of Asia in 20 years right?
On topic.....China has environmental groups???
Might sound picky, but Apple's Elk Grove - CA, Cork - IRL, and Singapore facilities were still up and running in 1999.
From the Financial Times article (and isn't odd that the FT are reporting this after getting their hands slapped on the App Store thing? - just pondering that one) cited by AI:
So note that in fact they did not say that the 29 companies complied - they only reported "singling out Apple as unresponsive" and they went ahead and published the report anyway. Never mind that Apple claimed that some of the suppliers weren't even making parts for Apple and that - as cited later in the same article:
No, these activists, just like Greenpeace, are reaching out to the highest profile company to make a media splash, and even if they are not directly involved with the Chinese government, they may not be getting the kind of government regulatory traction they want and decided to use the client companies instead to generate attention. Notice no other company besides Apple was mentioned. Usually a flag.
Apple's also a company, as I mentioned earlier, that makes a BIG DEAL about their environmental policies. So them not complying isn't just a issue with them allegedly not caring about the environment, but also could be construed as false advertising, since they're using environmentalism to try and sell devices.
Yes, Apple claimed that some of the suppliers weren't making components for them, but didn't provide further detail.
Seriously, it could come out that Apple used their computers to club baby seals as a form of stress testing, and you guys would still be defending their actions. Not even the most rabid Android/Windows/Nokia/WebOS/etc site goes that far.