This, of course, ignores the fact that the pre-iPhone Android looks absolutely nothing like the current (post-iPhone) Android. Clearly, the iPhone changed Android's direction immensely. ...
The thing that confuses most people, and it's a confusion that Google is happy to promote, is that there are 2 mobile operating systems called Android. There's the pre-iPhone Android, that was pretty much a Blackberry clone, and which never saw commercial release, and there's the post-iPhone Android that is just as obviously an iPhone clone. So, all the arguments that "Android was around before the iPhone was released," are entirely beside the point. Sure, the two Androids share some technical underpinnings, but they are two very different OSs that simply share the same name.
Google has shown time and time again that they have no respect for intellectual property, and, more generally, no respect for the law or even ethical behavior. This is a company that pours millions into lobbying, astroturfing and doublespeak blogging to shape public perception. But, anyone who can see above their disingenuous PR fog knows that they are essentially technology whores who will do anything for a dollar, including emptying the wallets of their "business partners" and sneaking out of the room after they've f#$&*d them.
hey, look! over there! people who agree with me no matter what and will never question anything I do as long as I mindlessly follow everything this one company does and treat them like gods. ha ha. I belong. my personal opinion is an echo of a crowd and not allowed to be anything else,but hey, I'm awesome. what so you mean I'm a mindless drone without a single independent thought?
I can play too big guy.
also my RSS feed shows appleinsider often. for the past few years I've periodically read their articles but had no account so never replied to some misinformation. some great points. some random tech news. now I joined so I can participate in these discussions.
sorry if you only wish for hivemindedness.
No, you can't play, "big guy", because you're not very bright. Otherwise you'd busy yourself with something more challenging that debating with people you manifestly consider fools.
So what's the problem? Can't hold your own with people you consider peers? Because you're just too fucking stupid, and require easy targets to make your "points"? Or is it that you're just too lazy to challenge yourself?
Funny, I would have thought there were less objectionable ways of getting a bit of news than hanging out with "ignorant fanboys," I mean, you did register to be able to let everyone know you think the discussion is worthless. I'm guessing you also actually watch Fox news while smirking and reminding yourself that your better than all that?
note: not all Apple fans are to be considered ignorant fanboys. some people just like Apple products. and I don't see how anyone can blame them. Apple easily has the best most desirable hardware on the market and depending on your tastes the top OSes.
the issue arises when people literally get upset that people can possibly enjoy non-Apple products. Lie about Windows 8 copying Apple's 2011 OS with design elements over 16 years old. Make up stories about thievery not realizing they are making apple look like punks if it's true and treat a man and a company like God and his kingdom.
Such irrational loyalty towards an entity that literally doesn't care about you is pathetic.
No, you can't play, "big guy", because you're not very bright. Otherwise you'd busy yourself with something more challenging that debating with people you manifestly consider fools.
So what's the problem? Can't hold your own with people you consider peers? Because you're just too fucking stupid, and require easy targets to make your "points"? Or is it that you're just too lazy to challenge yourself?
somehow I think you aren't aware that you started with me.
"The tax benefits of the deal make what was a good deal into a great deal," said Robert Willens, a New York accounting and tax expert. He estimated that through the acquisition, Google can expect to reap $700 million a year in tax deductions from future profits each year through 2019. Google also will be able to immediately reduce its taxes by $1 billion due to Motorola Mobility's U.S. net operating loss, and by a further $700 million due to its foreign operating loss, he said."
VERY interesting. It seems that most of the "anal-a-cysts" missed that little detail...
Getting tax breaks by purchasing operations that lose money is a curious business model.
Getting tax breaks by purchasing operations that lose money is a curious business model.
Take a course in finance. Tax considerations are an important part of any business deal.
There are cases where the tax breaks are worth more than the purchase price. So even if you close the business down the day after buying it and sell the assets for scrap, you're still well ahead of the game.
More commonly, let's say a business selling price is $x. And let's say that the tax credit value is $y. Now, let's say that you believe the actual value is $z. As long as $z + $y is greater than $x, purchasing the company might make sense.
On the other side, if you purchase company's shares rather than assets, you sure has heck need to be concerned about taxes. If there's an unpaid tax bill, it becomes your liability.
If the Motorola purchase proves to be a boat anchor it really will call into questions Google's basic business acumen. They already looked kind of silly when they lost out on the recent Novell/Nortel bidding war, seemingly by not taking it all that seriously.
No one questions Google's technical chops, but I wonder if they have the people in charge to make the smart decisions when it comes to these kind of strategic acquisitions.
Lack of parental control maybe when uncle Eric was out? I wonder how involved Schmidt was with this debacle and if this signals he is having to pick up the broken toys.
Tax considerations are an important part of any business deal.
Of course they are. But to suggest that the PV of reduced tax payments over a 10-year period in such a rapidly-moving, strategically important business for a cash-rich company - an acquisition about which the company's top management have addressed nothing but the strategic aspects - is what makes the deal worthwhile (as some fo the commentary implies) does not hold water.
@AbsoluteDesignz this isn't a great site for comments, most come from rather uneducated fan boys. But then again most of the articles are also by ignorant fan boys, so just read it for the occasional actual news and don't let the comments get to you, it isn't worth the frustration.
Apple is to this site what Republicans are to FOX News.
Both provide an equal level of ignorant reporting and shameless bias.
It IS a great place for trolls to lurk and encourage one another! *GRIN*
Anyone who comes into a forum and immediately spouts the "ignorant fan boy" meme is all too worthy of the ephithet "troll". Nice try but you are in the wrong place at the wrong time with the wrong comment. And not even a pithey humorous or nicely barbed comment. Just a poor, mediocre sort of "meh" comment, a sort of tired, bitter, disillusioned comment sounding more like, "I have failed miserably in life and and now I have to go dribble my depressed ennui somewhere - ahhhhh! the AI fora!" So first, you get plopped in the ignore list, then...
Back on topic, Eric's comments sound like he is part of an effort to stave off some hard questions from the shareholders. This is the problem with going public - a large group of people who gave you their money now want to know why you are doing stupid things with it. Larry, Sergei and Eric are scrambling to justify what has been roundly described as a questionable purchase.
such seething hate for no real reason from users here.
Wow. You OBVIOUSLY have never met actual seething hatred or seen it in action. This is amusement, head-shaking at what most of the entire tech world outside of Google has labelled at best a "meh" decision, and at worst a highly questionable purchase that could create some real issues for both Google and the Android platform.
But since you don't (apparently) have the tech or business chops to look at the decision logically and objectively, this is the result.
Those Androse-colored glasses you wear here are going to cause you to run into something hard and immoveable one of these days - take them off and see the world for what it is...
For the past year I've been saying that MotoMobility would be a good purchase for Apple (not at 12.5 billion though) and for a year I've been told that Moto was a crap company on the way to oblivion... well, now I'm ready to believe the people who said that... but suddenly it seems that Moto has value to some people... what changed.
ps - I think the Google Moto deal was a bad investment
Let me guess what it'll be "Google stole teh multitouch!" (something Apple does not own) or "Android woz teh blackberry before iFone was shown!!!!!!!1one" (which is also bollocks because Android is software, not hardware. Software is scalable and able to run on many form factors/devices)
Silly Galaxy - you're in the wrong place! The rabid Android fans are all over here:
If you hurry you will just catch the latest round of self-congratulations and ice cream sandwich send-up. Don't let us poor benighted Appleistas keep you from your fun!
Of course they are. But to suggest that the PV of reduced tax payments over a 10-year period in such a rapidly-moving, strategically important business for a cash-rich company - an acquisition about which the company's top management have addressed nothing but the strategic aspects - is what makes the deal worthwhile (as some fo the commentary implies) does not hold water.
No one said that it was being purchased solely for tax value. And it has nothing to do with whether the company is cash rich or the market is moving quickly. It's simple math in determining how much they are willing to pay for the business.
When you buy something like this, you consider ALL the positives and all the negatives. They might break it down as:
Purchase price $12.9 B
Current value of tax breaks $3.0 B
Net price $9.9 B
Selling unwanted assets $3.0 B
Bottom line price for the parts we want $6.9 B
Then they decide if the parts they want are worth $6.9 B or not. THAT is the important number - and calculating the tax benefits is critical to arrive at that number.
"The tax benefits of the deal make what was a good deal into a great deal," said Robert Willens, a New York accounting and tax expert. He estimated that through the acquisition, Google can expect to reap $700 million a year in tax deductions from future profits each year through 2019. Google also will be able to immediately reduce its taxes by $1 billion due to Motorola Mobility's U.S. net operating loss, and by a further $700 million due to its foreign operating loss, he said."
VERY interesting. It seems that most of the "anal-a-cysts" missed that little detail...
You look for any positive twist you can put on it. So yeah Google bought Moto for the tax breaks....
Comments
This, of course, ignores the fact that the pre-iPhone Android looks absolutely nothing like the current (post-iPhone) Android. Clearly, the iPhone changed Android's direction immensely. ...
The thing that confuses most people, and it's a confusion that Google is happy to promote, is that there are 2 mobile operating systems called Android. There's the pre-iPhone Android, that was pretty much a Blackberry clone, and which never saw commercial release, and there's the post-iPhone Android that is just as obviously an iPhone clone. So, all the arguments that "Android was around before the iPhone was released," are entirely beside the point. Sure, the two Androids share some technical underpinnings, but they are two very different OSs that simply share the same name.
Google has shown time and time again that they have no respect for intellectual property, and, more generally, no respect for the law or even ethical behavior. This is a company that pours millions into lobbying, astroturfing and doublespeak blogging to shape public perception. But, anyone who can see above their disingenuous PR fog knows that they are essentially technology whores who will do anything for a dollar, including emptying the wallets of their "business partners" and sneaking out of the room after they've f#$&*d them.
hey, look! over there! people who agree with me no matter what and will never question anything I do as long as I mindlessly follow everything this one company does and treat them like gods. ha ha. I belong. my personal opinion is an echo of a crowd and not allowed to be anything else,but hey, I'm awesome. what so you mean I'm a mindless drone without a single independent thought?
I can play too big guy.
also my RSS feed shows appleinsider often. for the past few years I've periodically read their articles but had no account so never replied to some misinformation. some great points. some random tech news. now I joined so I can participate in these discussions.
sorry if you only wish for hivemindedness.
No, you can't play, "big guy", because you're not very bright. Otherwise you'd busy yourself with something more challenging that debating with people you manifestly consider fools.
So what's the problem? Can't hold your own with people you consider peers? Because you're just too fucking stupid, and require easy targets to make your "points"? Or is it that you're just too lazy to challenge yourself?
Funny, I would have thought there were less objectionable ways of getting a bit of news than hanging out with "ignorant fanboys," I mean, you did register to be able to let everyone know you think the discussion is worthless. I'm guessing you also actually watch Fox news while smirking and reminding yourself that your better than all that?
note: not all Apple fans are to be considered ignorant fanboys. some people just like Apple products. and I don't see how anyone can blame them. Apple easily has the best most desirable hardware on the market and depending on your tastes the top OSes.
the issue arises when people literally get upset that people can possibly enjoy non-Apple products. Lie about Windows 8 copying Apple's 2011 OS with design elements over 16 years old. Make up stories about thievery not realizing they are making apple look like punks if it's true and treat a man and a company like God and his kingdom.
Such irrational loyalty towards an entity that literally doesn't care about you is pathetic.
But anyways. Too many words wasted on you.
No, you can't play, "big guy", because you're not very bright. Otherwise you'd busy yourself with something more challenging that debating with people you manifestly consider fools.
So what's the problem? Can't hold your own with people you consider peers? Because you're just too fucking stupid, and require easy targets to make your "points"? Or is it that you're just too lazy to challenge yourself?
somehow I think you aren't aware that you started with me.
"The tax benefits of the deal make what was a good deal into a great deal," said Robert Willens, a New York accounting and tax expert. He estimated that through the acquisition, Google can expect to reap $700 million a year in tax deductions from future profits each year through 2019. Google also will be able to immediately reduce its taxes by $1 billion due to Motorola Mobility's U.S. net operating loss, and by a further $700 million due to its foreign operating loss, he said."
VERY interesting. It seems that most of the "anal-a-cysts" missed that little detail...
Getting tax breaks by purchasing operations that lose money is a curious business model.
Getting tax breaks by purchasing operations that lose money is a curious business model.
Take a course in finance. Tax considerations are an important part of any business deal.
There are cases where the tax breaks are worth more than the purchase price. So even if you close the business down the day after buying it and sell the assets for scrap, you're still well ahead of the game.
More commonly, let's say a business selling price is $x. And let's say that the tax credit value is $y. Now, let's say that you believe the actual value is $z. As long as $z + $y is greater than $x, purchasing the company might make sense.
On the other side, if you purchase company's shares rather than assets, you sure has heck need to be concerned about taxes. If there's an unpaid tax bill, it becomes your liability.
They just "root, root, root for the home team"...
I don't quite understand being a fan of a corporation, but I see it as the same sort of thing as Red Sox fans hating the Yankees.
You realize that the Red Sox and Yankees are also corporations, right?
If the Motorola purchase proves to be a boat anchor it really will call into questions Google's basic business acumen. They already looked kind of silly when they lost out on the recent Novell/Nortel bidding war, seemingly by not taking it all that seriously.
No one questions Google's technical chops, but I wonder if they have the people in charge to make the smart decisions when it comes to these kind of strategic acquisitions.
Lack of parental control maybe when uncle Eric was out? I wonder how involved Schmidt was with this debacle and if this signals he is having to pick up the broken toys.
Getting tax breaks by purchasing operations that lose money is a curious business model.
It's just not curious, but dumb.
It's just not curious, but dumb.
No, it's not. There are plenty of examples where tax credits are an important part of an acquisition's value.
IGNORING tax issues when making an acquisition would be dumb.
Tax considerations are an important part of any business deal.
Of course they are. But to suggest that the PV of reduced tax payments over a 10-year period in such a rapidly-moving, strategically important business for a cash-rich company - an acquisition about which the company's top management have addressed nothing but the strategic aspects - is what makes the deal worthwhile (as some fo the commentary implies) does not hold water.
No, it's not. There are plenty of examples where tax credits are an important part of an acquisition's value.
IGNORING tax issues when making an acquisition would be dumb.
Yes, I agree.
But I doubt that it was terribly important in this particular instance (despite the fact that it's there, although I am skeptical of how much).
@AbsoluteDesignz this isn't a great site for comments, most come from rather uneducated fan boys. But then again most of the articles are also by ignorant fan boys, so just read it for the occasional actual news and don't let the comments get to you, it isn't worth the frustration.
Apple is to this site what Republicans are to FOX News.
Both provide an equal level of ignorant reporting and shameless bias.
It IS a great place for trolls to lurk and encourage one another! *GRIN*
Anyone who comes into a forum and immediately spouts the "ignorant fan boy" meme is all too worthy of the ephithet "troll". Nice try but you are in the wrong place at the wrong time with the wrong comment. And not even a pithey humorous or nicely barbed comment. Just a poor, mediocre sort of "meh" comment, a sort of tired, bitter, disillusioned comment sounding more like, "I have failed miserably in life and and now I have to go dribble my depressed ennui somewhere - ahhhhh! the AI fora!" So first, you get plopped in the ignore list, then...
Back on topic, Eric's comments sound like he is part of an effort to stave off some hard questions from the shareholders. This is the problem with going public - a large group of people who gave you their money now want to know why you are doing stupid things with it. Larry, Sergei and Eric are scrambling to justify what has been roundly described as a questionable purchase.
such seething hate for no real reason from users here.
Wow. You OBVIOUSLY have never met actual seething hatred or seen it in action. This is amusement, head-shaking at what most of the entire tech world outside of Google has labelled at best a "meh" decision, and at worst a highly questionable purchase that could create some real issues for both Google and the Android platform.
But since you don't (apparently) have the tech or business chops to look at the decision logically and objectively, this is the result.
Those Androse-colored glasses you wear here are going to cause you to run into something hard and immoveable one of these days - take them off and see the world for what it is...
ps - I think the Google Moto deal was a bad investment
Let me guess what it'll be "Google stole teh multitouch!" (something Apple does not own) or "Android woz teh blackberry before iFone was shown!!!!!!!1one" (which is also bollocks because Android is software, not hardware. Software is scalable and able to run on many form factors/devices)
Silly Galaxy - you're in the wrong place! The rabid Android fans are all over here:
http://phandroid.com/
or here:
http://androidcommunity.com/forums/
If you hurry you will just catch the latest round of self-congratulations and ice cream sandwich send-up. Don't let us poor benighted Appleistas keep you from your fun!
Of course they are. But to suggest that the PV of reduced tax payments over a 10-year period in such a rapidly-moving, strategically important business for a cash-rich company - an acquisition about which the company's top management have addressed nothing but the strategic aspects - is what makes the deal worthwhile (as some fo the commentary implies) does not hold water.
No one said that it was being purchased solely for tax value. And it has nothing to do with whether the company is cash rich or the market is moving quickly. It's simple math in determining how much they are willing to pay for the business.
When you buy something like this, you consider ALL the positives and all the negatives. They might break it down as:
Purchase price $12.9 B
Current value of tax breaks $3.0 B
Net price $9.9 B
Selling unwanted assets $3.0 B
Bottom line price for the parts we want $6.9 B
Then they decide if the parts they want are worth $6.9 B or not. THAT is the important number - and calculating the tax benefits is critical to arrive at that number.
"The tax benefits of the deal make what was a good deal into a great deal," said Robert Willens, a New York accounting and tax expert. He estimated that through the acquisition, Google can expect to reap $700 million a year in tax deductions from future profits each year through 2019. Google also will be able to immediately reduce its taxes by $1 billion due to Motorola Mobility's U.S. net operating loss, and by a further $700 million due to its foreign operating loss, he said."
VERY interesting. It seems that most of the "anal-a-cysts" missed that little detail...
You look for any positive twist you can put on it. So yeah Google bought Moto for the tax breaks....