Wow. its almost as if DED magically "forgot" that Apple has its own major fragmentation issue: "lite" versions. iOS app developers have to release a trial version of their apps with features sucked out of them, just so that customers can try out a weak version of their product.
There's nothing mandatory about creating "lite" versions? developers don't have to do that. It's just good marketing (for many, but not all apps), and a good way to get a free 'working demo' to try before buying the full app.
Many of the better apps don't have two versions? for example, with many games they'll release it free, with a few "levels" enabled, and use an in-app purchase to upgrade to the full-featured/full-length app.
In the case of many apps I purchase (music production-related apps), there's no free version at all. Some are free however, and make their revenue from "content packs" you buy in-app.
The music app called Soundprism is a good example of the right balance. The once free app (it costs a few $ now, I think) has always been full-featured. When they later developed a 'pro' set of features, they added a second, much higher priced Pro version. But the free/cheap version isn't crippled or weak. It just doesn't have all the features that only serious musicians would need. Thus two versions.
Most of this isn't even about Apple or iOS limitations anyway, but the choices developers make. There are a lot of business/marketing models to choose from?
to tell you the truth, i can't figure out what people are arguing about.
anyway, simple outcome will be that WP 7.0 apps will quickly stop being bought/updated. they're obsolete. and there are just are not that many WP 7 phones in use for them now anyway! most of those small number of current owners will likely update their phone to 7.5 anyhow, and so buy 7.5 apps from now on. they'll only keep running the older apps that are not worth updating to 7.5. like games they don't play much. MS can maintain backward compatibility for its early adopters' 7.0 apps, but really it's a big 'so what?'.
talk about tempest in a teapot.
much more important issue is the FORWARD compatibility of WP 7.x phones' hardware with the future WP 8 OS (i assume the 7.5 apps will work on it). Nokia is about to launch a whole new line of them, so presumably sales will pick up. but can those buyers be sure they will be able to be upated to the complete W8 OS for phones when it comes out next year or whenever? or will they get screwed with dead-end hardware like anyone who bought a delay-gap-filler WP 6.5 phone did last year? or find some key features work but others don't?
that's the problem with hyping your next new OS a year in advance of its release, just to get "buzz" because sales are crummy today. it generates blogsphere buzz all right, but also consumer uncertainty.
whereas Apple has been clear all along (since the WWDC hype just 4 months before its launch) that the full iOS 5 will run on iPhone 4, but not everything will run on the 3GS it still sells these days. so you know what will happen to what you buy today, and so iPhone 4 sales have remained strong even with approach of the next iPhone 4S/5. any new features of the new iPhone will be hardware-related, like NFC or 4G/LTE etc.
to tell you the truth, i can't figure out what people are arguing about.
anyway, simple outcome will be that WP 7.0 apps will quickly stop being bought/updated. they're obsolete. and there are just are not that many WP 7 phones in use for them now anyway! most of those small number of current owners will likely update their phone to 7.5 anyhow, and so buy 7.5 apps from now on. they'll only keep running the older apps that are not worth updating to 7.5. like games they don't play much. MS can maintain backward compatibility for its early adopters' 7.0 apps, but really it's a big 'so what?'.
talk about tempest in a teapot.
much more important issue is the FORWARD compatibility of WP 7.x phones' hardware with the future WP 8 OS (i assume the 7.5 apps will work on it). Nokia is about to launch a whole new line of them, so presumably sales will pick up. but can those buyers be sure they will be able to be upated to the complete W8 OS for phones when it comes out next year or whenever? or will they get screwed with dead-end hardware like anyone who bought a delay-gap-filler WP 6.5 phone did last year? or find some key features work but others don't?
that's the problem with hyping your next new OS a year in advance of its release, just to get "buzz" because sales are crummy today. it generates blogsphere buzz all right, but also consumer uncertainty.
whereas Apple has been clear all along (since the WWDC hype just 4 months before its launch) that the full iOS 5 will run on iPhone 4, but not everything will run on the 3GS it still sells these days. so you know what will happen to what you buy today, and so iPhone 4 sales have remained strong even with approach of the next iPhone 4S/5. any new features of the new iPhone will be hardware-related, like NFC or 4G/LTE etc.
that's the way to do it.
I think the "tempest in a teapot" is pretty much about the misinformation put forth by this article. To clear up your perceptions about Windows Phone apps, there is no distinction to a Windows Phone user as to whether an app is 7.0 or 7.5. If someone purchases a 7.0 app now, and their phone updates to Mango, then they will automtatically be updated to the 7.5 version of the app, if available. There are no visual or performance differences between a 7.0 and a 7.5 app. The only distinguishable thing would be if the app uses a feature only available in 7.5. In this case, it's polite to point out to the person buying the app that some features may not be available until they recieve the Mango update.
The only people who need to be aware of the version numbers are the developers of the apps, so they know that, at least for a little while, some phones will be running 7, and other will be running 7.5, until the update has rolled out worldwide.
As for Windows 8, it's too soon to speculate on anything, as the timeframe isn't set, and most believe it's about a year out from being released. We can't make any judgement calls on the Windows 8 Developer preview, since it's not even anywhere near completion... It's just there so developers can get started on apps so that when Windows 8 final is released, the app store won't be empty. Sure, there's been buzz on the blog-o-shpere, but it's far too soon to be making decisions or judgements as to what it will and will not have, and what it will and will not support in the end.
I think the "tempest in a teapot" is pretty much about the misinformation put forth by this article. To clear up your perceptions about Windows Phone apps, there is no distinction to a Windows Phone user as to whether an app is 7.0 or 7.5. If someone purchases a 7.0 app now, and their phone updates to Mango, then they will automtatically be updated to the 7.5 version of the app, if available. There are no visual or performance differences between a 7.0 and a 7.5 app. The only distinguishable thing would be if the app uses a feature only available in 7.5. In this case, it's polite to point out to the person buying the app that some features may not be available until they recieve the Mango update.
The only people who need to be aware of the version numbers are the developers of the apps, so they know that, at least for a little while, some phones will be running 7, and other will be running 7.5, until the update has rolled out worldwide.
As for Windows 8, it's too soon to speculate on anything, as the timeframe isn't set, and most believe it's about a year out from being released. We can't make any judgement calls on the Windows 8 Developer preview, since it's not even anywhere near completion... It's just there so developers can get started on apps so that when Windows 8 final is released, the app store won't be empty. Sure, there's been buzz on the blog-o-shpere, but it's far too soon to be making decisions or judgements as to what it will and will not have, and what it will and will not support in the end.
that was my point - it's far too soon to be hyping W8. and until the question of forward hardware compatibility for W8 is answered, the hype has already created the uncertainty. you can't put that genie back in the bottle.
(Metro is a layer on top of Windows 7. Turn it off, and you have Windows 7)
(again, you are wrong. He pointed out that ARM tablets won't run x86 apps, and that x86 desktop apps are not trivial to port)
(this is a lie)
(this is a lie)
(this is a lie)
(that would be awful, but that's not what happened here)
(this is your unsubstantiated opinion after producing a lot of lies)
(this is a lie)
(this is phony; nobody is buying WP7 hardware. There are 300k apps for Android too; they're mostly all garbage, ring tones and wallpapers. WP7 doesn't have great apps)
(this is a lie)
(that's not even the issue. The issue is that WP7 users get a Windows CE experience of having to manage which apps to install based on their OS level. They can't update all)
(this is a lie, iOS App Store doesn't present multiple versions)
(this is wrong)
(this is a poor leap of faith)
(it's pretty clear Microsoft is not going to break tradition and release some magical Apple experience after doing this for WinNT, WinCE, Win/x64, XP/Itanium, and now Win8 ARM/x86 and Win8 Metro/desktop. Do you want to bet your credibility? I didn't think so, anonymous troll.)
Because every complaint you raised was ignorant and wrong.
Unfortunately for you sticking your fingers in your ears and crying lies lies lies isn't going to change the facts.
I actually sympathize with you. I understand it's painful to learn a writer you've been following is as thick between the ears as they come.
In Dilgers article Microsoft faces iPad, iWorks without articulated plan for Windows 8 Office he came to the conclusion that "Microsoft was still in the early stages of exploring the concept [of Metro Office]" based on a Baller quote "the question is Metro interface for Office. How critical is it to Windows 8 adoption to have software that takes full advantage of Office with Metro?".
So Dilger has made assumptions about the future direction of Microsoft based on something Microsoft didn't say.
Then out of stupidity, arrogance or the express intent to deceive the readers of AI he decided not to update his article. I can't imagine how he manages to think that is acceptable.
This isn't me arguing Dilger's point or disagreeing with his prediction, I'm pointing out very basic facts that he got wrong. The guy is a dope and isn't very good at his job.
Again all I'm doing here is pointing out very basic facts that he got wrong.
This article isn't any better.
Dilger either doesn't understand the WPx app model (I've mentioned before this guy isn't too bright haven't I?) or intentionally attempts to deceive readers by saying "once a 7.5 version app is published in the App Hub market, developers won't be able to fix bugs or add features to their existing 7.0 version" by ignoring the fact that this is only the case until October.
Dilger also states that "the WP7 market will display a list of app types for the users to select between" which is just plain wrong as outlined by many users before me.
Dilger appears to be intelligent to people who don't know any better because of his savant-like ability to recall which Apple execs were taking a dump on the first Tuesday of March 1994. However even the firmest grasp on his revisionist history doesn't excuse his poor writing skills and total lack of understanding of modern tech fundamentals.
His predictions over the years have simply come from attaching himself to the "Apple is awesome" bandwagon, which leads to a great outcome when talking about Apple products (e.g. saying "the next Apple product will be great" doesn't require much insight! ) but a total failure when commenting about non-Apple tech (like his continued prediction of Android doom over the years or basically anything about Microsoft).
Your best bet is to avoid the guy. He just isn't very bright, he doesn't understand any tech outside of Apple and he intentionally or stupidly deceives his readers.
Excuse me, but what Apple's competitors are doing is in fact news, especially when those competitors main objective it to take business away, or steal its technology. Apple investors are very interested in what is going on in the marketplace. What planet are you living on?
In that case shouldn't AI report on the Microsoft storys that can't have a negative spin? Like this week Microsoft increase its dividend payments by 25%. As an apple investor I think the returns Microsoft investors are getting would be fairly interesting, rather than some made up facts compared to a glorified history of apple.
The way I see it it's important to mention access to v7 apps is only limited until the end of October.
After that point devs can target both versions.
Dilger didn't see it that way when he wrote "once a 7.5 version app is published in the App Hub market, developers won't be able to fix bugs or add features to their existing 7.0 version" which of course just means in 5 weeks time we have to chalk that up as another incorrect statement from him.
What he said is true though. It may change later, as you point out, but it is true.
But we have to see how this works out. If what MS has said in the past about WP7 updating was true, then no problem. But what they said isn't true, so we have to see how accurate this will be.
Also an updated app on IOS is only going to work on an older version of IOS if there is an older version of the app availiable. For instance if I try to install Jamie olivers app on my iPhone 3g I get a message saying my version of IOS needs to be newer. I don't see how this is any different to what Ms are proposing. The tech behind how it works may be different but its still the same end result for users.
Not to mention how many devs out there will actually bother supporting multiple versions of an app. Unless you want to use 7.5 features you will still make 7.0 apps.
It's good that they responded, because developers were throwing a fit over this. They know very well that it will be until after the new years until some phones can be updated.
But I can't understand where they get that update schedule from. Either WP7 developers are very tardy in releasing updates, WP7 customers are very lazy about updating, or they pulled that number out of their noses.
I can receive updates once a week, even more, especially from new apps. Most of the apps I have for my iPhone 4 work on my old 3G, except for new features. I suppose there will always be a few that aren't backwards compatible, but I've found very few so far. And it's often more to an old phone that doesn have some needed hardware feature. It shouldn't happen with a phone that's a year old. Even for a Phone that's two years old, it should be very rare.
If most 7.5 apps won't work on 7.0, then that's a big problem. I hope that's not the case.
I am new to the apple camp with a recently purchased ipad2. I have may enjoyable experiences with it and the price was competitive with other tablets.
I am also a Windows Phone 7 user. Now I will not start a flame war between iOS and WP7, which one is better, yada yada, because frankly, whats the point? If your iphone does for you what you want it to do, then great! You made a fine investment (which my grandad used to say, something is worth as much as you are willing to pay for it!)
When I upgraded to a smartphone, I looked and Andriod, and iphone. Andriod resembled too much like my younger brother's myspace page, all HTML'd out. The iphone I almost pulled the trigger on, but i was waiting for the sales associate i saw the windows phone 7 devices (particular, the HD7s). after playingwith if for 20 min, it was the right phone for me.
What i did NOT do is rush out and hate everything apple. I did not trash my fellows at work because they didnt have a WP7. i recommended the iphone for my brother (he was on verizon, and the choice was between andriod and iphone, no WP7 devices were available at the time).
But I have been on the receiving end of snooty iphone users. And having read a lot of the articles here on Apple Insider for the past few weeks, I have to say, I see a lot of that elitist attitude on here as well. If you don't use a WP7 (or PC for that matter) then why waste your energy ranting about it? Do you not feel secure in yourself on your purchasing preferences that you have to belittle others?
Not to say it is all like this on this forum. I have found some great tips and tricks for my ipad, and love using it. I don't think I have opened my laptop since I bought it. But seriously, loose the 'tude dudes! Because any jackass with a credit card can purchase something. your phone shouldn't define who you are.
I have nothing against WP7. I've said a number of times on this site as well as on others, that it seems perfectly fine to me, but just not the way I like doing things. But a number of bloggers who are very much in favor of MS have themselves criticized both the OS and MS, such as Paul Thurrott who runs the Windows Supersite, and who is very well known. Compared to some of the things he's said, most of what is said here is pretty mild.
The real question is why would someone who is not an Apple user come on this site at all? Why do YOU care what is said here? Does it matter to you? Should it? No.
Why do we get people here who spend all their posting time criticizing Apple and its products? Does that make sense? Of course not, but they do.
This isn't a news site like Macworld. This is, admittedly, a fan site. The vast majority of people here use and like Apple's products. This is a world in which competition is fierce. Despite what some people who like to pretend are above the fray say, we all tend to think that the products we use are better, and the ones we don't, are inferior. You do too, though you won't admit it. It's part of being human. What we use identifies who and what we are. This is basic psychology, and there are numerous books about product purchasing, and what it tells about the person who made the purchase.
We don't have to apologize to anyone for what we feel. After all, it's our site. If people who don't feel the same way come here, then that's up to them. But I rarely go to Android fan sites, or Windows fan sites, or WP 7 fan sites, etc. I see no reason to harass those there. Let them have their fun, and even criticize Apple products if they want to. And they do.
I find it very strange that iPhone users would care about what you bought, and be snooty about it. In fact, most iPhone users are hoping that WP7 gets some marketshare, as it would take mostly from Android, which is threatening to overwhelm everyone.
But as a Mac user, I used to get terrible comments from PC users I met. Even today, go on many computer sites, and you will read lots of posts from PC users putting down the Mac, Apple and Steve Jobs. You get used to it.
So it looks like WP7 actually has a pretty efficient solution. Letting the app store manage which resources are required for a given device seems to make more sense than downloading a whole bunch of stuff that isn't required.
Again, that sounds like a very good idea. Having a standard way of telling a user what functions are not available on their device version will cause less confusion than not telling them anything and letting them work it out themselves.
Apparently, you don't use the App Store. When you go to an app, you will see the features listed, and which ones work for a particular device, or OS version, of there is a difference.
When, on your phone or iPad, an app comes up for an update, it will tell whether it's been updated for the newer OS. If you can't use the app, it doesn't show.
The difference in the binaries is small, and indeed, the proper one downloads for your device. For example, you won't get a download with graphics for an old screen when your phone has a retina display, and visa versa.
have you seen the w8 tablet? lol Ipad looks like a fisher price toy beside it.
Are YOU serious? The WP7 x86 tablet is junk. It needs a powerful chip, demoed with a mobile i5. Has a fan and, according to journalists, a hot vent. It also needs to be 11.6" because you can't run Windows 7 on a 10" screen. It won't sell anyway. Running Win 7 programs with a stylus or touch has already proven to be almost impossible, which is one major reason no one ever bought those things in the past.
Show me a positive article about Microsoft here, and your point is still only slightly valid.
MY point was that this is an APPLE SITE, for APPLE NEWS, and the only news about Microsoft is handpicked, and it's always NEGATIVE. They do this for a reason, to TROLL THE INTERNET.
You just said they harbor a gaggle of trolls, when in reality, they THEMSELVES are trolls, and your comment alone is trollish as hell
What a pointless response, seriously. You basically just cried because people complained that an article like this simply doesn't belong here. "BUT I WANNA MAKE FUN OF THE MICROSOFT. THEY AREN'T APPLE! WAAAAAAA"
Since you obviously hate this site so much, why are you here? You've obviously never gone to other sites that are specific to OS's or devices. I find them to be about the same.
In that case shouldn't AI report on the Microsoft storys that can't have a negative spin? Like this week Microsoft increase its dividend payments by 25%. As an apple investor I think the returns Microsoft investors are getting would be fairly interesting, rather than some made up facts compared to a glorified history of apple.
They do report MS financials. Do MS sites report Apple financials? Do they report when MS stock goes down, and Apple's stock goes up? Do they report when Apple's products outsell theirs, or get better reviews? Not really. And they don't have to.
Most stuff here is not "made up", no matter how much you want to think that. Sometimes errors are in some articles. This isn't a news site, as I keep pointing out. Usually DED gets his fact right, but his opinions are out of whack. Personally, he's not my favorite writer, but I have no say in that.
I have nothing against WP7. I've said a number of times on this site as well as on others, that it seems perfectly fine to me, but just not the way I like doing things. But a number of bloggers who are very much in favor of MS have themselves criticized both the OS and MS, such as Paul Thurrott who runs the Windows Supersite, and who is very well known. Compared to some of the things he's said, most of what is said here is pretty mild.
The real question is why would someone who is not an Apple user come on this site at all? Why do YOU care what is said here? Does it matter to you? Should it? No.
Why do we get people here who spend all their posting time criticizing Apple and its products? Does that make sense? Of course not, but they do.
This isn't a news site like Macworld. This is, admittedly, a fan site. The vast majority of people here use and like Apple's products. This is a world in which competition is fierce. Despite what some people who like to pretend are above the fray say, we all tend to think that the products we use are better, and the ones we don't, are inferior. You do too, though you won't admit it. It's part of being human. What we use identifies who and what we are. This is basic psychology, and there are numerous books about product purchasing, and what it tells about the person who made the purchase.
We don't have to apologize to anyone for what we feel. After all, it's our site. If people who don't feel the same way come here, then that's up to them. But I rarely go to Android fan sites, or Windows fan sites, or WP 7 fan sites, etc. I see no reason to harass those there. Let them have their fun, and even criticize Apple products if they want to. And they do.
I find it very strange that iPhone users would care about what you bought, and be snooty about it. In fact, most iPhone users are hoping that WP7 gets some marketshare, as it would take mostly from Android, which is threatening to overwhelm everyone.
But as a Mac user, I used to get terrible comments from PC users I met. Even today, go on many computer sites, and you will read lots of posts from PC users putting down the Mac, Apple and Steve Jobs. You get used to it.
How do you know the people bring critical arnt Apple users? I've been using Macs for around 10 years, have multiple ipods and had an iphone 3g. Doesn't mean I'm going to only buy apple stuff and it doesn't mean I'm going to automatically love everything apple does.
They do report MS financials. Do MS sites report Apple financials? Do they report when MS stock goes down, and Apple's stock goes up? Do they report when Apple's products outsell theirs, or get better reviews? Not really. And they don't have to.
Most stuff here is not "made up", no matter how much you want to think that. Sometimes errors are in some articles. This isn't a news site, as I keep pointing out. Usually DED gets his fact right, but his opinions are out of whack. Personally, he's not my favorite writer, but I have no say in that.
They report some Microsoft financials on here. I don't think I've ever seem an article of Microsoft posting record profits or getting record sales, yet its happening every year.
As for making stuff up recently we've had full lengh articles on app fragmentation and Microsoft not announcing there plans for office on metro. One was wrong and the other was an article based on there being no news. The level of assumptions is huge.
Are YOU serious? The WP7 x86 tablet is junk. It needs a powerful chip, demoed with a mobile i5. Has a fan and, according to journalists, a hot vent. It also needs to be 11.6" because you can't run Windows 7 on a 10" screen. It won't sell anyway. Running Win 7 programs with a stylus or touch has already proven to be almost impossible, which is one major reason no one ever bought those things in the past.
Dude, it is a powerful computers because developers are using it to develop and test applications. Sure developers can use an emulator. But using a real developer machine with similar characteristic as a tablet is more efficient.
What is wrong you? Is it a Global moderator skill to cherry pick statements out of context!?
Apparently, you don't use the App Store. When you go to an app, you will see the features listed, and which ones work for a particular device, or OS version, of there is a difference.
Do you want to give an example? All I can see is minimum requirements (i.e. minimum OS and hardware).
What he said is true though. It may change later, as you point out, but it is true.
I know you understand that comment is total BS so I don't see how it's worth my time to argue.
At the end of the day this just goes into Dilger's long list of dumb comments that he and the dopes that support him will selectively ignore once his "predictions" of the next iPhone/iPad/iWhatever being awesome come true. \
Comments
Wow. its almost as if DED magically "forgot" that Apple has its own major fragmentation issue: "lite" versions. iOS app developers have to release a trial version of their apps with features sucked out of them, just so that customers can try out a weak version of their product.
There's nothing mandatory about creating "lite" versions? developers don't have to do that. It's just good marketing (for many, but not all apps), and a good way to get a free 'working demo' to try before buying the full app.
Many of the better apps don't have two versions? for example, with many games they'll release it free, with a few "levels" enabled, and use an in-app purchase to upgrade to the full-featured/full-length app.
In the case of many apps I purchase (music production-related apps), there's no free version at all. Some are free however, and make their revenue from "content packs" you buy in-app.
The music app called Soundprism is a good example of the right balance. The once free app (it costs a few $ now, I think) has always been full-featured. When they later developed a 'pro' set of features, they added a second, much higher priced Pro version. But the free/cheap version isn't crippled or weak. It just doesn't have all the features that only serious musicians would need. Thus two versions.
Most of this isn't even about Apple or iOS limitations anyway, but the choices developers make. There are a lot of business/marketing models to choose from?
anyway, simple outcome will be that WP 7.0 apps will quickly stop being bought/updated. they're obsolete. and there are just are not that many WP 7 phones in use for them now anyway! most of those small number of current owners will likely update their phone to 7.5 anyhow, and so buy 7.5 apps from now on. they'll only keep running the older apps that are not worth updating to 7.5. like games they don't play much. MS can maintain backward compatibility for its early adopters' 7.0 apps, but really it's a big 'so what?'.
talk about tempest in a teapot.
much more important issue is the FORWARD compatibility of WP 7.x phones' hardware with the future WP 8 OS (i assume the 7.5 apps will work on it). Nokia is about to launch a whole new line of them, so presumably sales will pick up. but can those buyers be sure they will be able to be upated to the complete W8 OS for phones when it comes out next year or whenever? or will they get screwed with dead-end hardware like anyone who bought a delay-gap-filler WP 6.5 phone did last year? or find some key features work but others don't?
that's the problem with hyping your next new OS a year in advance of its release, just to get "buzz" because sales are crummy today. it generates blogsphere buzz all right, but also consumer uncertainty.
whereas Apple has been clear all along (since the WWDC hype just 4 months before its launch) that the full iOS 5 will run on iPhone 4, but not everything will run on the 3GS it still sells these days. so you know what will happen to what you buy today, and so iPhone 4 sales have remained strong even with approach of the next iPhone 4S/5. any new features of the new iPhone will be hardware-related, like NFC or 4G/LTE etc.
that's the way to do it.
to tell you the truth, i can't figure out what people are arguing about.
anyway, simple outcome will be that WP 7.0 apps will quickly stop being bought/updated. they're obsolete. and there are just are not that many WP 7 phones in use for them now anyway! most of those small number of current owners will likely update their phone to 7.5 anyhow, and so buy 7.5 apps from now on. they'll only keep running the older apps that are not worth updating to 7.5. like games they don't play much. MS can maintain backward compatibility for its early adopters' 7.0 apps, but really it's a big 'so what?'.
talk about tempest in a teapot.
much more important issue is the FORWARD compatibility of WP 7.x phones' hardware with the future WP 8 OS (i assume the 7.5 apps will work on it). Nokia is about to launch a whole new line of them, so presumably sales will pick up. but can those buyers be sure they will be able to be upated to the complete W8 OS for phones when it comes out next year or whenever? or will they get screwed with dead-end hardware like anyone who bought a delay-gap-filler WP 6.5 phone did last year? or find some key features work but others don't?
that's the problem with hyping your next new OS a year in advance of its release, just to get "buzz" because sales are crummy today. it generates blogsphere buzz all right, but also consumer uncertainty.
whereas Apple has been clear all along (since the WWDC hype just 4 months before its launch) that the full iOS 5 will run on iPhone 4, but not everything will run on the 3GS it still sells these days. so you know what will happen to what you buy today, and so iPhone 4 sales have remained strong even with approach of the next iPhone 4S/5. any new features of the new iPhone will be hardware-related, like NFC or 4G/LTE etc.
that's the way to do it.
I think the "tempest in a teapot" is pretty much about the misinformation put forth by this article. To clear up your perceptions about Windows Phone apps, there is no distinction to a Windows Phone user as to whether an app is 7.0 or 7.5. If someone purchases a 7.0 app now, and their phone updates to Mango, then they will automtatically be updated to the 7.5 version of the app, if available. There are no visual or performance differences between a 7.0 and a 7.5 app. The only distinguishable thing would be if the app uses a feature only available in 7.5. In this case, it's polite to point out to the person buying the app that some features may not be available until they recieve the Mango update.
The only people who need to be aware of the version numbers are the developers of the apps, so they know that, at least for a little while, some phones will be running 7, and other will be running 7.5, until the update has rolled out worldwide.
As for Windows 8, it's too soon to speculate on anything, as the timeframe isn't set, and most believe it's about a year out from being released. We can't make any judgement calls on the Windows 8 Developer preview, since it's not even anywhere near completion... It's just there so developers can get started on apps so that when Windows 8 final is released, the app store won't be empty. Sure, there's been buzz on the blog-o-shpere, but it's far too soon to be making decisions or judgements as to what it will and will not have, and what it will and will not support in the end.
I think the "tempest in a teapot" is pretty much about the misinformation put forth by this article. To clear up your perceptions about Windows Phone apps, there is no distinction to a Windows Phone user as to whether an app is 7.0 or 7.5. If someone purchases a 7.0 app now, and their phone updates to Mango, then they will automtatically be updated to the 7.5 version of the app, if available. There are no visual or performance differences between a 7.0 and a 7.5 app. The only distinguishable thing would be if the app uses a feature only available in 7.5. In this case, it's polite to point out to the person buying the app that some features may not be available until they recieve the Mango update.
The only people who need to be aware of the version numbers are the developers of the apps, so they know that, at least for a little while, some phones will be running 7, and other will be running 7.5, until the update has rolled out worldwide.
As for Windows 8, it's too soon to speculate on anything, as the timeframe isn't set, and most believe it's about a year out from being released. We can't make any judgement calls on the Windows 8 Developer preview, since it's not even anywhere near completion... It's just there so developers can get started on apps so that when Windows 8 final is released, the app store won't be empty. Sure, there's been buzz on the blog-o-shpere, but it's far too soon to be making decisions or judgements as to what it will and will not have, and what it will and will not support in the end.
that was my point - it's far too soon to be hyping W8. and until the question of forward hardware compatibility for W8 is answered, the hype has already created the uncertainty. you can't put that genie back in the bottle.
(this is a lie)
(Metro is a layer on top of Windows 7. Turn it off, and you have Windows 7)
(again, you are wrong. He pointed out that ARM tablets won't run x86 apps, and that x86 desktop apps are not trivial to port)
(this is a lie)
(this is a lie)
(this is a lie)
(that would be awful, but that's not what happened here)
(this is your unsubstantiated opinion after producing a lot of lies)
(this is a lie)
(this is phony; nobody is buying WP7 hardware. There are 300k apps for Android too; they're mostly all garbage, ring tones and wallpapers. WP7 doesn't have great apps)
(this is a lie)
(that's not even the issue. The issue is that WP7 users get a Windows CE experience of having to manage which apps to install based on their OS level. They can't update all)
(this is a lie, iOS App Store doesn't present multiple versions)
(this is wrong)
(this is a poor leap of faith)
(it's pretty clear Microsoft is not going to break tradition and release some magical Apple experience after doing this for WinNT, WinCE, Win/x64, XP/Itanium, and now Win8 ARM/x86 and Win8 Metro/desktop. Do you want to bet your credibility? I didn't think so, anonymous troll.)
Because every complaint you raised was ignorant and wrong.
Unfortunately for you sticking your fingers in your ears and crying lies lies lies isn't going to change the facts.
I actually sympathize with you. I understand it's painful to learn a writer you've been following is as thick between the ears as they come.
In Dilgers article Microsoft faces iPad, iWorks without articulated plan for Windows 8 Office he came to the conclusion that "Microsoft was still in the early stages of exploring the concept [of Metro Office]" based on a Baller quote "the question is Metro interface for Office. How critical is it to Windows 8 adoption to have software that takes full advantage of Office with Metro?".
The trouble here is that Ballmer never said that!. It was part of an analysts question.
So Dilger has made assumptions about the future direction of Microsoft based on something Microsoft didn't say.
Then out of stupidity, arrogance or the express intent to deceive the readers of AI he decided not to update his article. I can't imagine how he manages to think that is acceptable.
This isn't me arguing Dilger's point or disagreeing with his prediction, I'm pointing out very basic facts that he got wrong. The guy is a dope and isn't very good at his job.
Dilger also decided that Microsoft copied the Metro iconography from OSX Lion, ignoring the fact that the Metro iconography has roots as far back as Encarta 2003 and is specifically outlined in the Windows Phone design guidelines.
Again all I'm doing here is pointing out very basic facts that he got wrong.
This article isn't any better.
Dilger either doesn't understand the WPx app model (I've mentioned before this guy isn't too bright haven't I?) or intentionally attempts to deceive readers by saying "once a 7.5 version app is published in the App Hub market, developers won't be able to fix bugs or add features to their existing 7.0 version" by ignoring the fact that this is only the case until October.
Dilger also states that "the WP7 market will display a list of app types for the users to select between" which is just plain wrong as outlined by many users before me.
Dilger appears to be intelligent to people who don't know any better because of his savant-like ability to recall which Apple execs were taking a dump on the first Tuesday of March 1994. However even the firmest grasp on his revisionist history doesn't excuse his poor writing skills and total lack of understanding of modern tech fundamentals.
His predictions over the years have simply come from attaching himself to the "Apple is awesome" bandwagon, which leads to a great outcome when talking about Apple products (e.g. saying "the next Apple product will be great" doesn't require much insight!
Your best bet is to avoid the guy. He just isn't very bright, he doesn't understand any tech outside of Apple and he intentionally or stupidly deceives his readers.
Excuse me, but what Apple's competitors are doing is in fact news, especially when those competitors main objective it to take business away, or steal its technology. Apple investors are very interested in what is going on in the marketplace. What planet are you living on?
In that case shouldn't AI report on the Microsoft storys that can't have a negative spin? Like this week Microsoft increase its dividend payments by 25%. As an apple investor I think the returns Microsoft investors are getting would be fairly interesting, rather than some made up facts compared to a glorified history of apple.
Source post: http://windowsteamblog.com/windows_p...on-update.aspx
That's essentially what I posted, but from MS's own site.
The way I see it it's important to mention access to v7 apps is only limited until the end of October.
After that point devs can target both versions.
Dilger didn't see it that way when he wrote "once a 7.5 version app is published in the App Hub market, developers won't be able to fix bugs or add features to their existing 7.0 version" which of course just means in 5 weeks time we have to chalk that up as another incorrect statement from him.
What he said is true though. It may change later, as you point out, but it is true.
But we have to see how this works out. If what MS has said in the past about WP7 updating was true, then no problem. But what they said isn't true, so we have to see how accurate this will be.
That post is out of date. This whole article stems from them saying you would be able to update the 7.0 version.
http://windowsteamblog.com/windows_p...n-october.aspx
Also an updated app on IOS is only going to work on an older version of IOS if there is an older version of the app availiable. For instance if I try to install Jamie olivers app on my iPhone 3g I get a message saying my version of IOS needs to be newer. I don't see how this is any different to what Ms are proposing. The tech behind how it works may be different but its still the same end result for users.
Not to mention how many devs out there will actually bother supporting multiple versions of an app. Unless you want to use 7.5 features you will still make 7.0 apps.
It's good that they responded, because developers were throwing a fit over this. They know very well that it will be until after the new years until some phones can be updated.
But I can't understand where they get that update schedule from. Either WP7 developers are very tardy in releasing updates, WP7 customers are very lazy about updating, or they pulled that number out of their noses.
I can receive updates once a week, even more, especially from new apps. Most of the apps I have for my iPhone 4 work on my old 3G, except for new features. I suppose there will always be a few that aren't backwards compatible, but I've found very few so far. And it's often more to an old phone that doesn have some needed hardware feature. It shouldn't happen with a phone that's a year old. Even for a Phone that's two years old, it should be very rare.
If most 7.5 apps won't work on 7.0, then that's a big problem. I hope that's not the case.
Good Morning!
I am new to the apple camp with a recently purchased ipad2. I have may enjoyable experiences with it and the price was competitive with other tablets.
I am also a Windows Phone 7 user. Now I will not start a flame war between iOS and WP7, which one is better, yada yada, because frankly, whats the point? If your iphone does for you what you want it to do, then great! You made a fine investment (which my grandad used to say, something is worth as much as you are willing to pay for it!)
When I upgraded to a smartphone, I looked and Andriod, and iphone. Andriod resembled too much like my younger brother's myspace page, all HTML'd out. The iphone I almost pulled the trigger on, but i was waiting for the sales associate i saw the windows phone 7 devices (particular, the HD7s). after playingwith if for 20 min, it was the right phone for me.
What i did NOT do is rush out and hate everything apple. I did not trash my fellows at work because they didnt have a WP7. i recommended the iphone for my brother (he was on verizon, and the choice was between andriod and iphone, no WP7 devices were available at the time).
But I have been on the receiving end of snooty iphone users. And having read a lot of the articles here on Apple Insider for the past few weeks, I have to say, I see a lot of that elitist attitude on here as well. If you don't use a WP7 (or PC for that matter) then why waste your energy ranting about it? Do you not feel secure in yourself on your purchasing preferences that you have to belittle others?
Not to say it is all like this on this forum. I have found some great tips and tricks for my ipad, and love using it. I don't think I have opened my laptop since I bought it. But seriously, loose the 'tude dudes! Because any jackass with a credit card can purchase something. your phone shouldn't define who you are.
I have nothing against WP7. I've said a number of times on this site as well as on others, that it seems perfectly fine to me, but just not the way I like doing things. But a number of bloggers who are very much in favor of MS have themselves criticized both the OS and MS, such as Paul Thurrott who runs the Windows Supersite, and who is very well known. Compared to some of the things he's said, most of what is said here is pretty mild.
The real question is why would someone who is not an Apple user come on this site at all? Why do YOU care what is said here? Does it matter to you? Should it? No.
Why do we get people here who spend all their posting time criticizing Apple and its products? Does that make sense? Of course not, but they do.
This isn't a news site like Macworld. This is, admittedly, a fan site. The vast majority of people here use and like Apple's products. This is a world in which competition is fierce. Despite what some people who like to pretend are above the fray say, we all tend to think that the products we use are better, and the ones we don't, are inferior. You do too, though you won't admit it. It's part of being human. What we use identifies who and what we are. This is basic psychology, and there are numerous books about product purchasing, and what it tells about the person who made the purchase.
We don't have to apologize to anyone for what we feel. After all, it's our site. If people who don't feel the same way come here, then that's up to them. But I rarely go to Android fan sites, or Windows fan sites, or WP 7 fan sites, etc. I see no reason to harass those there. Let them have their fun, and even criticize Apple products if they want to. And they do.
I find it very strange that iPhone users would care about what you bought, and be snooty about it. In fact, most iPhone users are hoping that WP7 gets some marketshare, as it would take mostly from Android, which is threatening to overwhelm everyone.
But as a Mac user, I used to get terrible comments from PC users I met. Even today, go on many computer sites, and you will read lots of posts from PC users putting down the Mac, Apple and Steve Jobs. You get used to it.
So it looks like WP7 actually has a pretty efficient solution. Letting the app store manage which resources are required for a given device seems to make more sense than downloading a whole bunch of stuff that isn't required.
Again, that sounds like a very good idea. Having a standard way of telling a user what functions are not available on their device version will cause less confusion than not telling them anything and letting them work it out themselves.
Apparently, you don't use the App Store. When you go to an app, you will see the features listed, and which ones work for a particular device, or OS version, of there is a difference.
When, on your phone or iPad, an app comes up for an update, it will tell whether it's been updated for the newer OS. If you can't use the app, it doesn't show.
The difference in the binaries is small, and indeed, the proper one downloads for your device. For example, you won't get a download with graphics for an old screen when your phone has a retina display, and visa versa.
what are you kidding me??
have you seen the w8 tablet? lol Ipad looks like a fisher price toy beside it.
Are YOU serious? The WP7 x86 tablet is junk. It needs a powerful chip, demoed with a mobile i5. Has a fan and, according to journalists, a hot vent. It also needs to be 11.6" because you can't run Windows 7 on a 10" screen. It won't sell anyway. Running Win 7 programs with a stylus or touch has already proven to be almost impossible, which is one major reason no one ever bought those things in the past.
LOL! Your fanboy rage is HILARIOUS
Show me a positive article about Microsoft here, and your point is still only slightly valid.
MY point was that this is an APPLE SITE, for APPLE NEWS, and the only news about Microsoft is handpicked, and it's always NEGATIVE. They do this for a reason, to TROLL THE INTERNET.
You just said they harbor a gaggle of trolls, when in reality, they THEMSELVES are trolls, and your comment alone is trollish as hell
What a pointless response, seriously. You basically just cried because people complained that an article like this simply doesn't belong here. "BUT I WANNA MAKE FUN OF THE MICROSOFT. THEY AREN'T APPLE! WAAAAAAA"
Since you obviously hate this site so much, why are you here? You've obviously never gone to other sites that are specific to OS's or devices. I find them to be about the same.
In that case shouldn't AI report on the Microsoft storys that can't have a negative spin? Like this week Microsoft increase its dividend payments by 25%. As an apple investor I think the returns Microsoft investors are getting would be fairly interesting, rather than some made up facts compared to a glorified history of apple.
They do report MS financials. Do MS sites report Apple financials? Do they report when MS stock goes down, and Apple's stock goes up? Do they report when Apple's products outsell theirs, or get better reviews? Not really. And they don't have to.
Most stuff here is not "made up", no matter how much you want to think that. Sometimes errors are in some articles. This isn't a news site, as I keep pointing out. Usually DED gets his fact right, but his opinions are out of whack. Personally, he's not my favorite writer, but I have no say in that.
I have nothing against WP7. I've said a number of times on this site as well as on others, that it seems perfectly fine to me, but just not the way I like doing things. But a number of bloggers who are very much in favor of MS have themselves criticized both the OS and MS, such as Paul Thurrott who runs the Windows Supersite, and who is very well known. Compared to some of the things he's said, most of what is said here is pretty mild.
The real question is why would someone who is not an Apple user come on this site at all? Why do YOU care what is said here? Does it matter to you? Should it? No.
Why do we get people here who spend all their posting time criticizing Apple and its products? Does that make sense? Of course not, but they do.
This isn't a news site like Macworld. This is, admittedly, a fan site. The vast majority of people here use and like Apple's products. This is a world in which competition is fierce. Despite what some people who like to pretend are above the fray say, we all tend to think that the products we use are better, and the ones we don't, are inferior. You do too, though you won't admit it. It's part of being human. What we use identifies who and what we are. This is basic psychology, and there are numerous books about product purchasing, and what it tells about the person who made the purchase.
We don't have to apologize to anyone for what we feel. After all, it's our site. If people who don't feel the same way come here, then that's up to them. But I rarely go to Android fan sites, or Windows fan sites, or WP 7 fan sites, etc. I see no reason to harass those there. Let them have their fun, and even criticize Apple products if they want to. And they do.
I find it very strange that iPhone users would care about what you bought, and be snooty about it. In fact, most iPhone users are hoping that WP7 gets some marketshare, as it would take mostly from Android, which is threatening to overwhelm everyone.
But as a Mac user, I used to get terrible comments from PC users I met. Even today, go on many computer sites, and you will read lots of posts from PC users putting down the Mac, Apple and Steve Jobs. You get used to it.
How do you know the people bring critical arnt Apple users? I've been using Macs for around 10 years, have multiple ipods and had an iphone 3g. Doesn't mean I'm going to only buy apple stuff and it doesn't mean I'm going to automatically love everything apple does.
They do report MS financials. Do MS sites report Apple financials? Do they report when MS stock goes down, and Apple's stock goes up? Do they report when Apple's products outsell theirs, or get better reviews? Not really. And they don't have to.
Most stuff here is not "made up", no matter how much you want to think that. Sometimes errors are in some articles. This isn't a news site, as I keep pointing out. Usually DED gets his fact right, but his opinions are out of whack. Personally, he's not my favorite writer, but I have no say in that.
They report some Microsoft financials on here. I don't think I've ever seem an article of Microsoft posting record profits or getting record sales, yet its happening every year.
As for making stuff up recently we've had full lengh articles on app fragmentation and Microsoft not announcing there plans for office on metro. One was wrong and the other was an article based on there being no news. The level of assumptions is huge.
Are YOU serious? The WP7 x86 tablet is junk. It needs a powerful chip, demoed with a mobile i5. Has a fan and, according to journalists, a hot vent. It also needs to be 11.6" because you can't run Windows 7 on a 10" screen. It won't sell anyway. Running Win 7 programs with a stylus or touch has already proven to be almost impossible, which is one major reason no one ever bought those things in the past.
Dude, it is a powerful computers because developers are using it to develop and test applications. Sure developers can use an emulator. But using a real developer machine with similar characteristic as a tablet is more efficient.
What is wrong you? Is it a Global moderator skill to cherry pick statements out of context!?
Apparently, you don't use the App Store. When you go to an app, you will see the features listed, and which ones work for a particular device, or OS version, of there is a difference.
Do you want to give an example? All I can see is minimum requirements (i.e. minimum OS and hardware).
What he said is true though. It may change later, as you point out, but it is true.
I know you understand that comment is total BS so I don't see how it's worth my time to argue.
At the end of the day this just goes into Dilger's long list of dumb comments that he and the dopes that support him will selectively ignore once his "predictions" of the next iPhone/iPad/iWhatever being awesome come true.