Apple's iPhone has 89% retention rate, next nearest hardware is HTC at 39%

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  • Reply 61 of 116
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 20,732member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    and that Samsung is so embarrassed about their phone and tablet sales numbers that at their quarterly report, they stated that they would no longer provide shipping numbers for either!



    Wasn't the reason Samsung offered more about Apple's lawsuits and competitive advantage rather than any embarrassment over numbers? I suppose you could guess that as the real reason, and might even be right, but that's not the official reason offered.



    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...866644746.html
  • Reply 62 of 116
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post


    Then again, maybe it does say that your product is good.



    No Android fan wants to admit the obvious. If you take this statistic together with the high customer satisfaction ratings Apple earns, and high numbers of people lining up to upgrade to iPhone 5 sight unseen, maybe it's because Apple is good at delivering value to the customer. Maybe real customers don't just see their phone as a bag of hardware specs to be flaunted for geek cred.



    But, hey, if denying that Apple is doing something right helps you sleep at night, keep trolling.



    Not to mention, that high return rates includes new customers via those who have high loyalty to Apple's Ecosystem.



    The growth in every area for Apple is quantifiable.
  • Reply 63 of 116
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by GalaxyTab View Post


    You may be personally averse to 'cramming more hardware into the same space' as you put it but there are benefits (radio technology, processing architecture, memory expansion, optics) have all moved on when it comes to Android handsets.



    As 'cramming more hardware into the same space' is not your thing, I take it you have never ever upgrade to a newer model of iPhone and are still on your original handset as hardware specifications are meaningless in your world?



    I'm not averse to hardware advancements, I'm just saying it probably doesn't matter as much as you seem to think for most people, and it most definitely doesn't matter enough that the yearly upgrade cycle is holding the iPhone back. Not nearly. The point I was trying to make was not that hardware advancements are irrelevant or meaningless, but that making a million variations of the same thing is not going to save Android manufacturers.



    As for my own phone: I'm still using my 2-year old 3GS to full satisfaction, and I'm not even sure I will upgrade to the iPhone 5. My 3GS still provides a better using experience than any Android phone I have tried, even the ones less than a year old, plain and simple. Whether you or anyone else agree or not is irrelevant to me, because it doesn't change my perception of user experience Android phones can offer me, which I rate as pretty shitty and unpleasant. Right now, if I'd upgrade from my 3GS, it would be because the screen is not so great. Not because of the CPU (it's still very snappy), not because of RAM (it seems to do just fine with just 256 MB), not because it doesn't have 4G (no 4G network here anywhere), not because of the battery (I still get 48 hours on a charge from it). Guess what phone I would choose if I really decide to get a new phone because I want a better screen...



    Now -honest question-, you tell me: how should any Android phone convince me I should not buy another iPhone? One reason is enough, and whether it is hardware or software doesn't matter.



    Quote:

    A lot of people who are (sorry to put it this way) anti Android/Windows Phone do like to belittle hardware advancements, especially with Apple's glacial upgrade schedule, but I have no doubt that people will be screaming things like "OMG A5 processor!" and "More megapixels" come the october event and will gladly pony up the cash to get Apple's latest and greatest.



    I don't count myself as anti Android/WP7, and I don't feel I fit the hypothetical stereotype Apple fanboy who likes anything with an Apple logo, or pretends there is something magical about Apple hardware. I've used WP7 for example, and I think it's great, I could even see myself getting a WP7 handset. Before my 3GS I had multiple Nokia's that I loved, so Nokia + WP7 definitely has my attention. Android simply doesn't appeal to me in any way, I can't for the life of me think of a single reason why I would want an Android phone. Maybe it's because I'm not after a cheap phone, or because I'm not sensitive to the whole 'open/free' BS Android fans have to drag into every discussion.



    Quote:

    If the world is how you put it and it's all about the software/ecosystem then no one should really need anything above the iPhone 4. As this is not the case in the real world and people happily dump serious cash in (mostly needless) hardware upgrades I'd say specifications are important.



    Well, the iPhone 4 is now 16 months old and sales have shown no sign of slowing. People are still buying them by the millions. And not just iPhone 4. The 3GS is the second-best selling handset in the US. Imagine that. You try to make a caricature out of my statement that to most people it doesn't matter what's inside their phones, but inadvertedly, your caricature more or less confirms that statement.



    Quote:

    Why do you think people upgraded from the 3GS to an i4? Was it the Retina display, better cam, faster processor, ram upgrade, gyroscope or was it for the "ecosystem" that they were already using?

    I'd say it was all about the hardware bump.



    A better screen is a very obvious benefit for a phone, one that doesn't require anything but a set of eyes to recognize. Same holds for a nice shell made from attractive materials. 1 GHz dual core doesn't mean anything to the vast majority of people though. Neither does a 4G radio if there is no 4G coverage. Or an NFC chip you can't use for anything. It's not a coincidence it's phones like the Galaxy S with it's AMOLED screen are the best selling Android devices.



    I don't think many iPhone 4 owners upgraded from a 3GS by the way. I think most of them bought it as their first iPhone, or upgraded from a 3G or 2G.



    Quote:

    For clarification: My opinion is that of a consumer, not a shareholder so a companies profit has little effect on my purchasing decision. I respect that a shareholder is most likely going to have a different perspective.



    Sure, I didn't think otherwise. My opinion is also that of a consumer, not some open/free zealot, hardware geek or religious Apple follower. I just like to have a phone that does what I want it to do, that I don't hate within a month of using it, that doesn't expect me to do stuff I don't enjoy doing, etc. I think I've had close to 15 cell phones in the past, the ones I didn't like, I replaced within months (I always buy my phones off contract), the ones I liked a lot, I kept for years. I absolutely loved my Nokia 3210 and 6510 for example, and used them for about 3 years, but I downright hated my Samsung SGX something (can't even remember what it was exactly, it was that bad), and I also hated my SE K750i. Those didn't last more than a few months. The 3GS is the best phone I ever used without doubt, and by a large margin. The iPhone 4 is even better, but not enough to make me upgrade. I also really liked my brothers Omnia 7. But there isn't a single Android phone that ever caught my attention, except maybe the HTC legend, just because it had this nice aluminum body. Anyway, I hope you realize that it's not because of some kind of religious conviction that people like iPhones, but because they are great phones, and that has nothing to do with the chips inside.
  • Reply 64 of 116
    i dont need a survey to tell me Android is crap.
  • Reply 65 of 116
    <rant>



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post


    users surveyed by UBS Investment Research.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post


    UBS analysts remarked



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post


    is viewed by UBS



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post


    UBS's survey polled 515 customers



    This is what pisses me off more and more about AI and the majority of its commenters.



    UBS is an investment firm. They take money from people and invest it in a variety of investment products with the hopes of making their customers additional money. They take fees and percentages of the additional money made. The more money they make for their customer the more money they make. It's in their best interest to encourage their customers to invest in the companies they feel will do that the best.



    Why does Apple Insider and in turn it's readers feel that anything they have to say or do reflect on the average population? Why do people take this for anything other than UBS trying to encourage it's customers to buy their products which most likely include AAPL?



    You people with your remarks about the validity of the poll and it's survey base have absolutely no clue. You think everything written, posted, and reposted is intended for you, but if you had any reading comprehension at all, you'd see this as a lazy post by AI just to provide content. The poll and it's survey base is 100% valid to current customers of UBS or anyone who may utilize UBS's services and to the intended readers of it's remarks, NOT the everyday reader of AI. It provides insight to what UBS feels is a good investment.



    The comments about the poll needing to be about software and not hardware need to read the post and not just the headlines. It address both!



    You idiotic Android fans stating that the poll suggests that Android has a better retention rate because of the quote below need to re-read it about 10 more times. It DOESN'T say it fared better than Apple, just that the Android software fared better in retention compared to the hardware.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post


    Android fared better when users were asked solely about software



    And to point out. Only 55% polled plan on staying with Android. While 31% are going to switch. Nowhere in that quote can anyone with at least half a brain interpret that as good for Android.



    Cracks about the "average" smartphone buyer are completely useless given that the likelihood of UBS's customers being the "average" smartphone buyers are unlikely.



    It's no wonder I've moved AI down to the bottom of my RSS feed. Complete and utterly useless content constantly masked as "news." PLEASE stop treating Investment Research/Analysts reports as tech news stories.



    </rant>
  • Reply 66 of 116
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Wovel View Post


    Not exactly scientific or even relevant do you ever read reviews on Amazon?



    Not less scientific then survey made by financial firm who has vested interest investing in Apple. At least the consumer ratings are independent and consistant across 3 different sites (not just Amazon).
  • Reply 67 of 116
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by muppetry View Post


    You are quite correct, but note that Amazon is selling the iPhones at around $700 and most of the lower ratings are from people complaining that they can get them cheaper elsewhere. The Evo, on the other hand, is free on Amazon wireless. That's not a reasonable comparison.



    Consumer ratings are consistant across 3 different sites. It's not just Amazon: it's also Cnet and Phonearena.



    Considering antenna fiasco, I see why average iPhone user is not that excited about owning the iPhone.
  • Reply 68 of 116
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,737member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by MacRulez View Post


    From the article:





    Sure, people will move from one phone to another as they enjoy the wide variety of options available. But no matter how many different phones they may use, according to AI a majority are sticking with Android.



    Some people like a slide-out keyboard. Some want a higher-res camera. Some want a different carrier. Others want stereoscopic cameras (I don't want one myself, but it was pretty cool when my friend showed me her HTC with real-time 3D display).



    Individually, no single one of those niches will displace the iPhone. But collectively, they represent a breadth of options for consumers that's almost infinitely greater than the single model Apple offers.



    The iPhone is a very good phone. But it just isn"t the best phone for everyone. And if you're looking for any feature other than what Apple offers, you can't choose iOS because it only runs on the one phone they make.



    But that number is barely over 50%. it's also much worse than last year, when 73% said they would buy another Android phone.



    Even if it's over 50% it's bad. That means that 45% could get off Android for their next phone. It also means that in order for Android to keep the same numbers, they have to grow by at least 45%. with smartphone growth slowing down in the next two to three years as it takes over more than 50% of overall phone sales, this clu,d be a major problem for them. And if that number falls even further, then the platform will begin to shrink as we're now beginning to see for the BB.
  • Reply 69 of 116
    muppetrymuppetry Posts: 3,328member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mercury99 View Post


    Consumer ratings are consistant across 3 different sites. It's not just Amazon: it's also Cnet and Phonearena.



    Considering antenna fiasco, I see why average iPhone user is not that excited about owning the iPhone.



    Except, as I pointed out, the reason for the rating on Amazon, if you bother to look, is nothing to do with dissatisfaction with the phone. I didn't look at the other sites. And unfortunately your reference to the "antenna fiasco" places you firmly in the troll category, so enough said.
  • Reply 70 of 116
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 20,732member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    But that number is barely over 50%. it's also much worse than last year, when 73% said they would buy another Android phone.



    Even if it's over 50% it's bad. That means that 45% could get off Android for their next phone. It also means that in order for Android to keep the same numbers, they have to grow by at least 45%. with smartphone growth slowing down in the next two to three years as it takes over more than 50% of overall phone sales, this clu,d be a major problem for them. And if that number falls even further, then the platform will begin to shrink as we're now beginning to see for the BB.



    Mel did that "other" survey you cite target the same demographic and number of people? If not then attempting to compare the two and suggesting there's been a consumer change of heart based on just those two pieces of data wouldn't be valid would it?



    BTW, do you have a link for that "other" survey? Interested to see how they arrived at their numbers in that one.
  • Reply 71 of 116
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,737member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by iamme73 View Post


    I don't think that is a good comparison. There are differences between the cell phone industry and the PC industry.



    Microsoft charges the PC manufacturers to use it's windows operating system.



    Microsoft virtually has a monopoly on the desktop computer operating system business. Consumers buy a computer and windows is already installed. They aren't going to go and buy another operating system.



    Plus, there is no competition because the PC manufacturers don't court competitors to challenge Microsoft, and they don't try to produce their own PC operating system.



    Needless to say the cell phone industry doesn't have that kind of monopoly, where one company dominates and controls many others through an operating system.



    Many of the cellphone manufacturers that use Android, which is free, also have dealings with Microsoft, and many are trying to build their own operating system and even when they don't they add their own stuff on top of the Android operating system for differentiation.



    Android isn't free anymore. Most Android manufacturers are now paying Microsoft between $10-15 for every Android phone they sell, according to reports. MS is suing Motorola over this as well, and is talking to Samsung about it.



    In addition, in the case between Oracle and Google, Google has pretty much given up on stating they don't violate Oracle's patents. I've just read that if Oracle and Google go to trial, Google may have to pay Oracle by 2025, more than the $12.5 billion they're paying to buy Motorola.



    And then we have the suits from Apple. And last, but not least is the copyrighted code from Linux that Google took as their own, stripping out the copyrights, and saying that it's proprietary to them. This could be a big problem if they get sued over GPL2 licensing violations.



    So, is Android free to manufacturers? Not anymore. The question is how high a load of licensing fees can they afford? If it's too much, some may drop Android altogether, as it would be cheaper to just license WP7 from MS and try that.
  • Reply 72 of 116
    macrulezmacrulez Posts: 2,455member
    deleted
  • Reply 73 of 116
    muppetrymuppetry Posts: 3,328member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by MacRulez View Post


    And since then Android's installed base has grown at a much faster rate than iOS'. What was the difference in the survey methods that might account for this disparity?





    Maybe you're right. Android is doomed.



    I doubt anyone really believes Android is doomed. Given the proliferation of equipment and flavors of varying quality, it's hardly surprising that there is less percentage satisfaction with the Android than with iOS, which, by comparison, exists only on carefully designed and popular hardware.
  • Reply 74 of 116
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,737member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by GalaxyTab View Post


    Android OEM's cater to a far wider audience/market than Apple does. Yes there will be generic handsets but the higher end stuff has and will easily outpace what Apple offers.



    You may be personally averse to 'cramming more hardware into the same space' as you put it but there are benefits (radio technology, processing architecture, memory expansion, optics) have all moved on when it comes to Android handsets.



    As 'cramming more hardware into the same space' is not your thing, I take it you have never ever upgrade to a newer model of iPhone and are still on your original handset as hardware specifications are meaningless in your world?



    A lot of people who are (sorry to put it this way) anti Android/Windows Phone do like to belittle hardware advancements, especially with Apple's glacial upgrade schedule, but I have no doubt that people will be screaming things like "OMG A5 processor!" and "More megapixels" come the october event and will gladly pony up the cash to get Apple's latest and greatest.



    If the world is how you put it and it's all about the software/ecosystem then no one should really need anything above the iPhone 4. As this is not the case in the real world and people happily dump serious cash in (mostly needless) hardware upgrades I'd say specifications are important.



    Why do you think people upgraded from the 3GS to an i4? Was it the Retina display, better cam, faster processor, ram upgrade, gyroscope or was it for the "ecosystem" that they were already using?

    I'd say it was all about the hardware bump.



    For clarification: My opinion is that of a consumer, not a shareholder so a companies profit has little effect on my purchasing decision. I respect that a shareholder is most likely going to have a different perspective.



    In all this, it's interesting that the iPhone 4 is still, by far, the best selling phone on any network it's sold. And it's even MORE interesting that the old, old 3GS is the SECOND best selling phone on those networks.



    The problem is that these manufacturers, in their desperation to compete with Apple, and each other, THINK that more techie stuff it better, when it isn't. People such as yourself also make that mistake. If it were true, then we wouldn't see such pitiful satisfaction rates, and they are pitiful indeed!



    It's true that Apple advances the state of the art with every new phone. But that because of far more than just the tech features. It's the usability of the features that make the difference. If Apple can get something new into the phone, they will do it, and of course, it's a good thing. But those new features need to actually do something positive with little, or no bad side effects.



    So Apple went to a retina display. But they did it well. Other phones are a mess, with slightly differing resolutions and even differing screen ratios. This messes up the apps using them, as we've seen reported all over. But not on the iPhone.



    Same thing with so called 4G. The phones that have it have terrible battery life, even now. So what do we read in reviews? That they have to keep it turned off most of the tine. What a waste of time! So we get posters saying silly things such as iPhone users don't want to bother doing what they have to to use 4G, so Apple isn't supplying it yet. What nonsense! I did a comparison with a friend. By the tine he turned his 4 G on, and it locked onto the network, I had already finished doing what we were doing as a speed comparison.



    So, sure, "4G" can be a lot faster, but for most of what we would use it for, it's slower. So Apple doesn't have that nice new techie feature (which isn't yet supported in most places), but their phones still work better, and have better battery life to boot.



    So I don't see your argument as being valid. More features may help to see a phone, but it doesn't necessarily relate to greater user satisfaction, or repeatability.
  • Reply 75 of 116
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by muppetry View Post


    Except, as I pointed out, the reason for the rating on Amazon, if you bother to look, is nothing to do with dissatisfaction with the phone. I didn't look at the other sites. And unfortunately your reference to the "antenna fiasco" places you firmly in the troll category, so enough said.



    "Troll"? So you name calling, that means you just lost the argument



    "If you bother to look", the CNET and the Phonearena don't cell phones, but result is still the same.



    And since you don't bother to look, it "places you firmly" in the blind worshiper category. Apple is your religion
  • Reply 76 of 116
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,737member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post


    I agree with you that's it's certainly believable, but this "survey" is no reliable evidence for it, which is the argument I'm making.



    OK thanks.



    So, which is it? Is it believable, or is it not reliable evidence?



    And you don't have to be sarcastic and keep repeating the "Ok thanks".
  • Reply 77 of 116
    shenshen Posts: 434member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by chronster View Post


    No, it's damn near predictable. It's a good phone with a ton of apps, and since no other company offers it, it makes sense that people feel the need to stick with it. Afterall, what's the point of buying apps if you can't take them with you to the next device?



    I guarantee you 100% if there were a refined and popular way to run iOS apps on Android, that retention rate would go down.



    First Android itself would need to be refined and popular, once that happens we can work on step 2...
  • Reply 78 of 116
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,737member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mercury99 View Post


    Exactly. On the other hand Amazon.com, Cnet.com and Phonearena.com consistently show iPhone 4 has only 3.5 star (out of 5) consumer rating - not exactly high marks, considering HTC Evo gets 4.5 stars.



    Not exactly believable in light of several surveys that show otherwise. We know that Internet surveys are self selected, which means that fanboys mar the numbers. It just depends on which fanboys go to which sites.
  • Reply 79 of 116
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    Same thing with so called 4G. The phones that have it have terrible battery life, even now. So what do we read in reviews? That they have to keep it turned off most of the tine. What a waste of time! .



    So when iPhone will get 4G you not gonna complain about 4G "terrible battery life" and you gonna sing a different song. Whatever your Apple god gives you, you accept
  • Reply 80 of 116
    muppetrymuppetry Posts: 3,328member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mercury99 View Post


    "Troll"? So you name calling, that means you just lost the argument



    "If you bother to look", the CNET and the Phonearena don't cell phones, but result is still the same.



    And since you don't bother to look, it "places you firmly" in the blind worshiper category. Apple is your religion



    Oops. Now your outrage is ruining your grammar and spelling. That never sits well on this forum.



    But seriously - you are saying that I'm ignoring your arguments (which I'm not, because I pointed out that at least one of the sites you cited does not support your assertion, which breaks your pattern), and yet you are completely ignoring mine. Why?
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