Apple's iPhone has 89% retention rate, next nearest hardware is HTC at 39%

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  • Reply 81 of 116
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 20,752member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    So, which is it? Is it believable, or is it not reliable evidence?



    And you don't have to be sarcastic and keep repeating the "Ok thanks".



    Your statement that the figures could be correct is believable and this particular "survey" isn't reliable evidence for that. You may have other, more dependable evidence of course and it may even be in line with the general direction of this poorly constructed one.



    The single OK Thanks was let you know that I wasn't arguing with you, simply stating what my argument was instead of what you may have thought it was. So "OK Thanks" (your suggestion) was letting you know I didn't see any need to continue a discussion on that particular point unless you wanted to.



    I don't think we really disagree that this "survey" isn't a particularly telling piece of evidence in and of itself do we?
  • Reply 82 of 116
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,743member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post


    Wasn't the reason Samsung offered more about Apple's lawsuits and competitive advantage rather than any embarrassment over numbers? I suppose you could guess that as the real reason, and might even be right, but that's not the official reason offered.



    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...866644746.html



    Completive advantage can mean anything. When your phone sales come in well below predictions, and your tablets are being given away for free with a sale of a product only selling for three times as much, we can guess at the reason.



    And when a competitor Such as Lenovo, certainly not a stalking horse for Apple, states that you've only sold 20,000 of the million 7" tablets you shipped late last year, we can see that something not good is happening. And if you complain that Lenovo is making up the numbers, then you'd expect Samsung to respond. But they haven't said a word. So whatever number it was, it was pretty bad.



    So Samsung can give any reason they want to. But we can see the real one. Sales are low, and perhaps faltering. If this is because of lawsuits with Apple, then that not a good reason because just as they asked Apple for sales numbers, Apple can get then from Samsung. In fact, in one court, I forget which one, Samsung's numbers are a factor.
  • Reply 83 of 116
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,743member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Jims1973 View Post


    <rant>



















    This is what pisses me off more and more about AI and the majority of its commenters.



    UBS is an investment firm. They take money from people and invest it in a variety of investment products with the hopes of making their customers additional money. They take fees and percentages of the additional money made. The more money they make for their customer the more money they make. It's in their best interest to encourage their customers to invest in the companies they feel will do that the best.



    Why does Apple Insider and in turn it's readers feel that anything they have to say or do reflect on the average population? Why do people take this for anything other than UBS trying to encourage it's customers to buy their products which most likely include AAPL?



    You people with your remarks about the validity of the poll and it's survey base have absolutely no clue. You think everything written, posted, and reposted is intended for you, but if you had any reading comprehension at all, you'd see this as a lazy post by AI just to provide content. The poll and it's survey base is 100% valid to current customers of UBS or anyone who may utilize UBS's services and to the intended readers of it's remarks, NOT the everyday reader of AI. It provides insight to what UBS feels is a good investment.



    The comments about the poll needing to be about software and not hardware need to read the post and not just the headlines. It address both!



    You idiotic Android fans stating that the poll suggests that Android has a better retention rate because of the quote below need to re-read it about 10 more times. It DOESN'T say it fared better than Apple, just that the Android software fared better in retention compared to the hardware.







    And to point out. Only 55% polled plan on staying with Android. While 31% are going to switch. Nowhere in that quote can anyone with at least half a brain interpret that as good for Android.



    Cracks about the "average" smartphone buyer are completely useless given that the likelihood of UBS's customers being the "average" smartphone buyers are unlikely.



    It's no wonder I've moved AI down to the bottom of my RSS feed. Complete and utterly useless content constantly masked as "news." PLEASE stop treating Investment Research/Analysts reports as tech news stories.



    </rant>



    Like it or not, almost every financial and business site has an article about this survey, and they all seem to come to the same conclusion. That conclusion is that this isn't good for RIM or Android.



    You may as well go to those dozens of sites and make the same complaint.
  • Reply 84 of 116
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,743member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mercury99 View Post


    Consumer ratings are consistant across 3 different sites. It's not just Amazon: it's also Cnet and Phonearena.



    Considering antenna fiasco, I see why average iPhone user is not that excited about owning the iPhone.



    The problem with all consumer sites that have ratings is that you rarely have to actually own the product to rate it. Useless.
  • Reply 85 of 116
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mercury99 View Post


    So when iPhone will get 4G you not gonna complain about 4G "terrible battery life" and you gonna sing a different song. Whatever your Apple god gives you, you accept



    4G baseband chips in current phones are 1st generation, and Qualcomm already announced 6 months ago that next year, they will release a baseband that supports 3G, LTE, for all GSM and CDMA networks, on a single chip that uses significantly less power than the dual-baseband solutions found in today's LTE phones. So yes, when Apple releases an iPhone with LTE without killing its battery life, obviously no-one is going to complain about terrible battery life.



    The iPhone 5 is expected to have HSDPA+ by the way, which is also marketed as 4G these days.
  • Reply 86 of 116
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    The problem with all consumer sites that have ratings is that you rarely have to actually own the product to rate it. Useless.



    That would also be a problem with this forum, since most of iPhone owners have never owned an Android phone still they allow themself bashing them.
  • Reply 87 of 116
    tenobelltenobell Posts: 7,014member
    AI isn't a retail website selling consumer goods. We are just here giving our opinion.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mercury99 View Post


    That would also be a problem with this forum, since most of iPhone owners have never owned an Android phone still they allow themself bashing them.



  • Reply 88 of 116
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,743member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post


    Mel did that "other" survey you cite target the same demographic and number of people? If not then attempting to compare the two and suggesting there's been a consumer change of heart based on just those two pieces of data wouldn't be valid would it?



    BTW, do you have a link for that "other" survey? Interested to see how they arrived at their numbers in that one.



    It took me almost a half hour dragging though my bookmarks to find this, but here it is:



    http://link.businessinsider.com/view/fm3.5ut/5bc29863



    The new survey is a subset of the older, I suppose you can say. But as the two are so far apart, it might as well be just considered as what it is; another survey. By the way, there's an even smaller one going around that shows about the same thing, but I'm not sure it's as unbiased as this one looks to be.
  • Reply 89 of 116
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by muppetry View Post


    Oops. Now your outrage is ruining your grammar and spelling. That never sits well on this forum.



    But seriously - you are saying that I'm ignoring your arguments (which I'm not, because I pointed out that at least one of the sites you cited does not support your assertion, which breaks your pattern), and yet you are completely ignoring mine. Why?



    That one site (Amazon) does NOT break the pattern in spite of being e-commerce site. Amazon's consumer ratings repeat the rating pattern of two other non-commerce sites: on all three the HTC Evo has higher ratings vs. iPhone.
  • Reply 90 of 116
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by d-range View Post


    4G baseband chips in current phones are 1st generation, and Qualcomm already announced 6 months ago that next year, they will release a baseband that supports 3G, LTE, for all GSM and CDMA networks, on a single chip that uses significantly less power than the dual-baseband solutions found in today's LTE phones. So yes, when Apple releases an iPhone with LTE without killing its battery life, obviously no-one is going to complain about terrible battery life.



    The iPhone 5 is expected to have HSDPA+ by the way, which is also marketed as 4G these days.



    Of course, the future iPhone 4G would use "significantly less power", hardly any power at all
  • Reply 91 of 116
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,743member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by MacRulez View Post


    And since then Android's installed base has grown at a much faster rate than iOS'. What was the difference in the survey methods that might account for this disparity?





    Maybe you're right. Android is doomed.



    I don't know about the methodology. But when differing surveys taken by different organizations show a simiiar trend, the methodology matters less. Remember that the other survey was about a year ago, and this is a new one. I'm sure that if we could find a survey from 2009, it would show different numbers, and the same thing for earlier ones.



    So if something is trending down, or up, over time, that's what matters, not the exact numbers.



    We see that in IDc and Gartner's numbers for Apple OS X marketshare every quarter, when they do their current numbers. IDC almost always has Apple at a slightly higher percentage than does Gartner. They both have differing numbers for total computer sales around the world and in the USA. But it's the trend that's important, not whether Apple is at 11.1% or 12.2%.



    Well, who knows what is going on there? There was also a report that came out several days ago that said that 10% of all kids in the UK who were 10 years old had iPhones. So the UK is a very odd place. Another article there had the BB as the most popular smartphone among youth because of the free messaging feature.
  • Reply 92 of 116
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,743member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mercury99 View Post


    "Troll"? So you name calling, that means you just lost the argument



    "If you bother to look", the CNET and the Phonearena don't cell phones, but result is still the same.



    And since you don't bother to look, it "places you firmly" in the blind worshiper category. Apple is your religion



    Well, your posting isn't any better. And you lack the understanding of any online reviews where non owners of a product can place a "review". Many of these are from fanboys from either side. They are worthless. If you read these reviews, you can often tell when the poster hasn't got the product because they are spouting things that aren't even correct. This is true for any device.
  • Reply 93 of 116
    muppetrymuppetry Posts: 3,328member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mercury99 View Post


    That one site (Amazon) does NOT break the pattern in spite of being e-commerce site. Amazon's consumer ratings repeat the rating pattern of two other non-commerce sites: on all three the HTC Evo has higher ratings vs. iPhone.



    You're still diligently avoiding my original point - that if you actually read the user reviews on Amazon they are mostly not rating it down because of the phone, but because of Amazon's pricing, and that the HTC, by comparison, is free, and not attracting those same criticisms. I also took your advice and visited cnet and phonearena. Both sites rate the IP4 highly. User ratings on one is the same as the HTC (8/10), while slightly lower on the other, with a rather small sample size.



    Is this a discussion, or are you just closing your eyes and chanting a mantra?
  • Reply 94 of 116
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,743member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mercury99 View Post


    So when iPhone will get 4G you not gonna complain about 4G "terrible battery life" and you gonna sing a different song. Whatever your Apple god gives you, you accept



    If you are going to post garbage, I'm going to delete those posts. You can take that any way you want. Make an argument. But if you refer to crap like you did here about "your Apple god", you will be removed. If you can't show that you are old enough to post here, then you can't post here.



    Got it?
  • Reply 95 of 116
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,743member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post


    Your statement that the figures could be correct is believable and this particular "survey" isn't reliable evidence for that. You may have other, more dependable evidence of course and it may even be in line with the general direction of this poorly constructed one.



    The single OK Thanks was let you know that I wasn't arguing with you, simply stating what my argument was instead of what you may have thought it was. So "OK Thanks" (your suggestion) was letting you know I didn't see any need to continue a discussion on that particular point unless you wanted to.



    I don't think we really disagree that this "survey" isn't a particularly telling piece of evidence in and of itself do we?



    It's useful as any independent survey is. If a survey is commissioned by Apple, or Google, or Microsoft, I'm inclined to disregard it. Apple doesn't do that. I don't know if Google does, and MS does it all the time.



    A lot of business, financial and even computer sites are quoting this survey. That makes me inclined to accept it. If a few posters here and there don't, it doesn't mean much to me if they are constantly disregarding things that show Apple in a good light, and the competition in a bad one. Don't you agree?
  • Reply 96 of 116
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,743member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mercury99 View Post


    That would also be a problem with this forum, since most of iPhone owners have never owned an Android phone still they allow themself bashing them.



    This forum is exactly that, a forum of people saying what their feelings are about some item or other. When someone comes on who is trolling, and yes, that is a bad word to some, but as we all know, it happens, and doesn't have experience with a product, that becomes pretty obvious. Often they make statements about it that are impossible, and so give themselves away. Rarely do they come back.



    But, reviews on consumer sites are a very different animal. Supposedly, the people making the reviews are supposed to own the product. Or, at least to have had enough experience with it to make their remarks meaningful. But often the "reviews" are no more than a rant about one thing or another. The problem with many anti Apple "reviews" that I've seen are obviously from people who just don't want to see Apple get good word about anything. We've got some of those people here. We know who they are, because almost all of their posts are negative.
  • Reply 97 of 116
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 20,752member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    It's useful as any independent survey is. If a survey is commissioned by Apple, or Google, or Microsoft, I'm inclined to disregard it. Apple doesn't do that. I don't know if Google does, and MS does it all the time.



    A lot of business, financial and even computer sites are quoting this survey. That makes me inclined to accept it. If a few posters here and there don't, it doesn't mean much to me if they are constantly disregarding things that show Apple in a good light, and the competition in a bad one. Don't you agree?



    Hmm, interesting you'd consider this particular survey valid because it's posted elsewhere. Since this one was done in conjunction with a marketing plan put forth by the survey producer I'm surprised you'd not see the obvious redflags. Even 9to5 Mac writes that it's not something they necessarily put much stock in, and that's a strongly pro-Apple venue.



    "The survey may not be terribly accurate due to a small sample size, but it helps understand market trends" is one of the more diplomatic views of the surveys trustworthiness/accuracy. Your link to a survey of several thousand by a source with no horse in the race (Nielsen) is the type that I personally consider more likely to have valid results. Thanks for that.



    So your question is a strawman IMO. The current debate is whether this survey's results, standing alone, can be considered valid for extrapolating a claim on the overall average Android/iOS anticipated retention rates. Surely publication by other blogs is not evidence of validity is it? You've already stated you don't trust surveys, even those repeated by several blog sites. Why do you suddenly trust this one?



    To answer your unrelated question (IMHO), yes I too tend to question posters who blindly support any particular company regardless of the news or subject.
  • Reply 98 of 116
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    If you are going to post garbage, I'm going to delete those posts. You can take that any way you want. Make an argument. But if you refer to crap like you did here about "your Apple god", you will be removed. If you can't show that you are old enough to post here, then you can't post here.



    Got it?



    Sorry, if I offended you. My point is that Apple fanboys always try to dismiss features iPhone lacks. But as soon as Apple offers these features (2 years later), everyone will make big deal out of it. "Got it?"
  • Reply 99 of 116
    tenobelltenobell Posts: 7,014member
    You've taken what Mel said out its proper context. He said he would not trust surveys from Apple. Google, or MS. He did not say he does not trust any survey.



    He also said these types of surveys are useful for trends. You want to argue the merits of the numbers themselves.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post


    So your question is a strawman IMO. The current debate is whether this survey's results, standing alone, can be considered valid for extrapolating a claim on the overall average Android/iOS anticipated retention rates. Surely publication by other blogs is not evidence of validity is it? You've already stated you don't trust surveys, even those repeated by several blog sites. Why do you suddenly trust this one?



  • Reply 100 of 116
    tenobelltenobell Posts: 7,014member
    I would describe that a bit differently to say we don't want features implemented the same way they are on other phones. We make a big deal of when Apple implements the feature better than other had done.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mercury99 View Post


    Sorry, if I offended you. My point is that Apple fanboys always try to dismiss features iPhone lacks. But as soon as Apple offers these features (2 years later), everyone will make big deal out of it. "Got it?"



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