This device makes all kinds of compromises... BUT, if reviews turn out to be good, the low price makes the compromises reasonable. This is no iPad, and in the long run (resale value) it’s probably not much cheaper than an iPad. But it may well be a nice option to have in the market, especially for people who NEED a tablet somewhat bigger than an iPod, but cannot swing more than $200. Before this, I would have said none of the options for those people was even worth it. Pending reviews, that may have just changed. And tablets, if they’re hassle-free (which Amazon’s curated app approach could be) are perfect for tons of people who need ease-of-use and reliability above all. I hope this gets good tablets to more people, and doesn’t turn out to be another miserable Android attempt.
No, that's not true. You would have to click on one of those for that to happen. AI can't track where people go from this site, only that people come here, and that alone isn't telling advertisers anything other than they are here.
I'd love to see some sort of statement from AI explaining why there are dozens of advertising company URLs that get hit every time I click on AI content. I find it disconcerting, and when using slow connections, downright annoying.
We'll have to wait and see if this really enhances user perceived performance, November I guess. Definitely not a threat to the iPad market (at this point).
Its an intriguing solution to get around some of the issues with browsing on a tablet. It'll be a tough solution to balance, but if Amazon can do this - folks will only care about the increased performance.
If it shows significant advantage, then I'd fully expect Apple to consider it in the future as well.
Considering that every website can know what computer is entering their site, it seems as though Amazon, which knows who purchased each of their devices, as they are registered back to Amazon, will easily be able to know exactly who is asking for what every time.
True, I was only suggesting that the other domains where the included resources are coming from would not see your IP address. Of course Amazon would, but that might be a more desirable situation since I already trust Amazon to a great extent by letting them have my personal information and my credit card. The other third party domains that contribute to an average web page content, I don't trust as much.
I'd love to see some sort of statement from AI explaining why there are dozens of advertising company URLs that get hit every time I click on AI content. I find it disconcerting, and when using slow connections, downright annoying.
But it may well be a nice option to have in the market, especially for people who NEED a tablet, but cannot swing more than $200.
As I said in the other thread, it's basically a poor man's tablet.
Amazon may be making a mistake if they're relying on people who are buying a tablet mainly because it's cheap to also be buying up a lot of content.
If somebody can't afford an iPad and they're getting a $200 tablet instead, then this kind of person would probably think that a $10 book is outrageously expensive and I don't see them buying a lot of content, which is what Amazon is relying on. There are apps on the iPad that costs more than $200.
Your ISP is already doing that in case the government comes along at a later date and wants to know what you have been up to. So you are okay with that but are concerned about Amazon?
-kpluck
His ISP is probably also doing Split Browsing. Most, if not all, the majors do. But hey, they gotta find find something to carp about if it's not Apple.
There are definitely pros to these server-side browsers ? like smaller transmitted data sizes to render a page and the ability to display Adobe Flash without heavy local processing ? but there are plenty of cons, too. Personally I haven't missed Adobe Flash on the iPhone and have been impressed with Safari on iOS (save for iPhone OS v2.0 to 2.2) that my evaluation of the server-side browser on the iOS App Store have been short lived.
I for one do not like Safari on iOS, it tends to reload content way too often even when you just wanna go back to a previous page, it's very time taxing especially on a 3G network.
Well, apple tracked everywhere I've been driving to and walking so... this can't be any worse.
Apple no longer does this. but besides the point, there is a very large difference. Amazon tracks everything you do on the device, every site you visit, every click you make...everything. The potential for abuse is so high, only someone with an IQ less than 20 would use it.
Your ISP is already doing that in case the government comes along at a later date and wants to know what you have been up to. So you are okay with that but are concerned about Amazon?
-kpluck
No. Your ISP only tracks what you do if they are required by a warrant or the rights trampling Homeland Security bullshit.
Apple no longer does this. but besides the point, there is a very large difference. Amazon tracks everything you do on the device, every site you visit, every click you make...everything. The potential for abuse is so high, only someone with an IQ less than 20 would use it.
Well, apple tracked everywhere I've been driving to and walking so... this can't be any worse.
Apple did not track you, they collected WiFi and tower locations from your phone, i.e. the information that was submitted back to HQ does NOT collect your MAC or IP address therefore, cannot be used to identify you or your iPhone. The reason is to serve a more accurate GPS location even in the event where your iPhone cannot grab a GPS signal, when in a parking garage for example.
Android on the other-hand DOES collect identifying data such as your MAC address and IP address which can be used to identify you individually, because Google is in the business of data collection. In reality Android is not free, it costs you your personal info.
I mentioned this in the other thread, but I'm not so sure that this 'cloud accelerated' browsing is necessarily a good thing.
I don't know about other people, but I wouldn't want my every move on the internet being tracked.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bullhead
Great. Amazon gets to track everything you do on the net. No thanks.
Do you guys use any Google services? At all? Search, gmail, gvoice, adsense on other sites?
I totally agree with your thinking, but it's a lot harder to stay out of their profiles than most people think.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][
Not true. I block everything.
I seem to care very little about being tracked? Um, I care a lot about being tracked, that's why I block everything. Who are you to tell me what I care about?
Do you block adsense? Do you read blogs on blogger? The list goes on... How about this one: Do you communicate with other people who use gmail? It's likely that they don't give a shit about their privacy or anyone else's, so I'd bet they send emails with your personal info without your permission. Stuff like "Happy Birthday Alan, can't believe you're already 40! How are your kids liking Rodeo Elementary this year? ". Oops, fail.
Merely exchanging email with gmail users, disregarding any text content whatsoever, allows google to build very accurate social graphs. Indexing the actual content of the messages allows them to build accurate profiles of you, your friends, your family, your kids.
I'm on your side, just reminding people that's it's a lot harder than they think to stay out of the profile aggregators' databases. Google is scary beyond belief, and most people continue sending them personal data every minute of every day.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nickmccally
Well, apple tracked everywhere I've been driving to and walking so... this can't be any worse.
Kinda sorta, but are you saying that because one company has access to some very limited location data that you think it's fine for all other companies to build detailed profiles of you (and everyone you communicate with?)
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone
Can't be done on an iPhone or iPad, at least to my knowledge. That is closer to the comparison we are discussing since the article is about the Amazon Fire and Silk browser.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][
That's true. If I'm browsing with my iPad, I don't think that there's a way to do that yet, AFAIK.
Yes, this is a huge concern. With desktop/laptop devices we have a lot of control over what we let into and out from our computers. With mobile/tablet devices, almost none out of the box. I wouldn't use an unmodified Android device if you gave me one for free, but at least with Android I believe you can install custom firewall software to mitigate this. On iOS it's not possible without jailbreaking; see "Firewall IP". However, I haven't found a way to purchase that software anonymously. Can't even use a pre-pay Visa gift card. If anyone knows, please post here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bullhead
Apple no longer does this. but besides the point, there is a very large difference. Amazon tracks everything you do on the device, every site you visit, every click you make...everything. The potential for abuse is so high, only someone with an IQ less than 20 would use it.
Amazon (and Facebook) are clearly dangerous to privacy, but nothing like Google. I can opt out of Facebook and Amazon, but Google has their fingers in so many different parts of the internet that it's very, very difficult. When Schmidt said to The Atlantic: ?We know where you are. We know where you?ve been. We can more or less know what you?re thinking about." he wasn't joking.
I'm on your side, just reminding people that's it's a lot harder than they think to stay out of the profile aggregators' databases. Google is scary beyond belief, and most people continue sending them personal data every minute of every day.
I agree with what you say and short of not being on the internet at all, it is difficult to be totally free. I do use Gmail, but that's about it. I don't trust Google too much to be honest. I'm also glad that I'm not on Facebook, as they also are trying to gather info on everybody.
I agree with what you say and short of not being on the internet at all, it is difficult to be totally free. I do use Gmail, but that's about it. I don't trust Google too much to be honest. I'm also glad that I'm not on Facebook, as they also are trying to gather info on everybody.
Ouch! Of all the services from all the providers, I'd say you're using the worst of the worst, from a privacy standpoint. Every single word you type and every single word any of your friends or family send you is being harvested. And because so many people consider email to be "private" (hahahahahahaha!), they're likely to be far more loose-lipped than via other mediums. There are still more than enough utterly stupid Facebook users around, posting asinine stuff right out in public, but more and more people are at least paying some attention to what they post there in public. Then again, facebook's trends will eventually put everything in public.
Honestly, there's not much point in blocking any ads or such if you're going to use gmail. Nothing you or anyone else types in will ever, ever, ever go away. And unlike Facebook, you're unwittingly drawing others in that might prefer to NOT be profiled. Please, for the sake of your own privacy and those around you, consider using the "real" account that almost certainly came via your ISP. Or at least some provider that doesn't rely on tracking and profiling.
Yes, the new laws surrounding ISP data capture is worrisome as well, but Google's reach puts them into a category unto themselves.
This is what I was going to comment on. It seems as though we are getting web based companies releasing services for us that are really disguised attempts to get more of our data or usage patterns to sell to advertisers. Google is the master at this, considering that they have nothing to sell, and almost everything they have aimed at us is "free". of course, they track everything we do and sell that. Now Amazon is beginning to do that as well. There is no way they are going to make any major profit on these new devices by selling them, unlike how Apple makes its money through selling hardware.
The problem is that there is no way that Amazon can guarantee that customers will buy enough from them through these "tablets" to earn them a profit from their sale. So they have to resort in other methods. Tracking everything we do is one of those methods.
+1 for this.
As the modern adage goes, with Apple you are the customer, but with Google you are the content. Same goes for Facebook, you are the content they are selling.
We'll have to see if Amazon jumps from (mostly) the former to the latter. I think it would be detrimental to their business if customers start perceiving themselves to be Amazon's product. With Google services, at least you know you're not paying cash out of pocket. With Amazon, the presumption is that because you're a paying customer that Amazon makes their profit from your purchase, not from sales or other behind-the-scenes usage of private customer data.
Interesting. Amazon has the hosting infrastructure to pull this off. Then again, it would be useful for 3G, which... the Kindle Fire does not have as I understand. Ah well, we'll see.
Apple no longer does this. but besides the point, there is a very large difference. Amazon tracks everything you do on the device, every site you visit, every click you make...everything. The potential for abuse is so high, only someone with an IQ less than 20 would use it.
Apple knows much more about you, what you search and where you are, than you might realize. They also share those details with their advertising partners. Apple may not see advertising as their primary revenue source as Google does, but they're putting more effort into integrating location features into social apps to entice you and other Apple users into sharing even more travel and search details, which can then be used to build your personal consumer profile to attract more advertisers.
Read this article to see what changed with last years iOS4 update. Apple's efforts to know more about you including location, contacts and search history, and share it with advertisers isn't talked about much.
It doesn't make them evil, or sneaky or overly intrusive. Just be aware they're also in the game of delivering you as a product.
Comments
No, that's not true. You would have to click on one of those for that to happen. AI can't track where people go from this site, only that people come here, and that alone isn't telling advertisers anything other than they are here.
I'd love to see some sort of statement from AI explaining why there are dozens of advertising company URLs that get hit every time I click on AI content. I find it disconcerting, and when using slow connections, downright annoying.
Its an intriguing solution to get around some of the issues with browsing on a tablet. It'll be a tough solution to balance, but if Amazon can do this - folks will only care about the increased performance.
If it shows significant advantage, then I'd fully expect Apple to consider it in the future as well.
Considering that every website can know what computer is entering their site, it seems as though Amazon, which knows who purchased each of their devices, as they are registered back to Amazon, will easily be able to know exactly who is asking for what every time.
True, I was only suggesting that the other domains where the included resources are coming from would not see your IP address. Of course Amazon would, but that might be a more desirable situation since I already trust Amazon to a great extent by letting them have my personal information and my credit card. The other third party domains that contribute to an average web page content, I don't trust as much.
I'd love to see some sort of statement from AI explaining why there are dozens of advertising company URLs that get hit every time I click on AI content. I find it disconcerting, and when using slow connections, downright annoying.
one word: Ghostery
But it may well be a nice option to have in the market, especially for people who NEED a tablet, but cannot swing more than $200.
As I said in the other thread, it's basically a poor man's tablet.
Amazon may be making a mistake if they're relying on people who are buying a tablet mainly because it's cheap to also be buying up a lot of content.
If somebody can't afford an iPad and they're getting a $200 tablet instead, then this kind of person would probably think that a $10 book is outrageously expensive and I don't see them buying a lot of content, which is what Amazon is relying on. There are apps on the iPad that costs more than $200.
Your ISP is already doing that in case the government comes along at a later date and wants to know what you have been up to. So you are okay with that but are concerned about Amazon?
-kpluck
His ISP is probably also doing Split Browsing. Most, if not all, the majors do. But hey, they gotta find find something to carp about if it's not Apple.
There are definitely pros to these server-side browsers ? like smaller transmitted data sizes to render a page and the ability to display Adobe Flash without heavy local processing ? but there are plenty of cons, too. Personally I haven't missed Adobe Flash on the iPhone and have been impressed with Safari on iOS (save for iPhone OS v2.0 to 2.2) that my evaluation of the server-side browser on the iOS App Store have been short lived.
I for one do not like Safari on iOS, it tends to reload content way too often even when you just wanna go back to a previous page, it's very time taxing especially on a 3G network.
Well, apple tracked everywhere I've been driving to and walking so... this can't be any worse.
Apple no longer does this. but besides the point, there is a very large difference. Amazon tracks everything you do on the device, every site you visit, every click you make...everything. The potential for abuse is so high, only someone with an IQ less than 20 would use it.
Your ISP is already doing that in case the government comes along at a later date and wants to know what you have been up to. So you are okay with that but are concerned about Amazon?
-kpluck
No. Your ISP only tracks what you do if they are required by a warrant or the rights trampling Homeland Security bullshit.
Apple no longer does this. but besides the point, there is a very large difference. Amazon tracks everything you do on the device, every site you visit, every click you make...everything. The potential for abuse is so high, only someone with an IQ less than 20 would use it.
Do you use a cellular phone?
I mentioned this in the other thread, but I'm not so sure that this 'cloud accelerated' browsing is necessarily a good thing.
I don't know about other people, but I wouldn't want my every move on the internet being tracked.
Yeah because Google and Facebook dont already do that on your devices.
Nothing more than what RIM did more than ten years ago with their BlackBerry Internet Service...
Well, apple tracked everywhere I've been driving to and walking so... this can't be any worse.
Apple did not track you, they collected WiFi and tower locations from your phone, i.e. the information that was submitted back to HQ does NOT collect your MAC or IP address therefore, cannot be used to identify you or your iPhone. The reason is to serve a more accurate GPS location even in the event where your iPhone cannot grab a GPS signal, when in a parking garage for example.
Android on the other-hand DOES collect identifying data such as your MAC address and IP address which can be used to identify you individually, because Google is in the business of data collection. In reality Android is not free, it costs you your personal info.
I mentioned this in the other thread, but I'm not so sure that this 'cloud accelerated' browsing is necessarily a good thing.
I don't know about other people, but I wouldn't want my every move on the internet being tracked.
Great. Amazon gets to track everything you do on the net. No thanks.
Do you guys use any Google services? At all? Search, gmail, gvoice, adsense on other sites?
I totally agree with your thinking, but it's a lot harder to stay out of their profiles than most people think.
Not true. I block everything.
I seem to care very little about being tracked? Um, I care a lot about being tracked, that's why I block everything. Who are you to tell me what I care about?
Do you block adsense? Do you read blogs on blogger? The list goes on... How about this one: Do you communicate with other people who use gmail? It's likely that they don't give a shit about their privacy or anyone else's, so I'd bet they send emails with your personal info without your permission. Stuff like "Happy Birthday Alan, can't believe you're already 40! How are your kids liking Rodeo Elementary this year? ". Oops, fail.
Merely exchanging email with gmail users, disregarding any text content whatsoever, allows google to build very accurate social graphs. Indexing the actual content of the messages allows them to build accurate profiles of you, your friends, your family, your kids.
I'm on your side, just reminding people that's it's a lot harder than they think to stay out of the profile aggregators' databases. Google is scary beyond belief, and most people continue sending them personal data every minute of every day.
Well, apple tracked everywhere I've been driving to and walking so... this can't be any worse.
Kinda sorta, but are you saying that because one company has access to some very limited location data that you think it's fine for all other companies to build detailed profiles of you (and everyone you communicate with?)
Can't be done on an iPhone or iPad, at least to my knowledge. That is closer to the comparison we are discussing since the article is about the Amazon Fire and Silk browser.
That's true. If I'm browsing with my iPad, I don't think that there's a way to do that yet, AFAIK.
Yes, this is a huge concern. With desktop/laptop devices we have a lot of control over what we let into and out from our computers. With mobile/tablet devices, almost none out of the box. I wouldn't use an unmodified Android device if you gave me one for free, but at least with Android I believe you can install custom firewall software to mitigate this. On iOS it's not possible without jailbreaking; see "Firewall IP". However, I haven't found a way to purchase that software anonymously. Can't even use a pre-pay Visa gift card. If anyone knows, please post here.
Apple no longer does this. but besides the point, there is a very large difference. Amazon tracks everything you do on the device, every site you visit, every click you make...everything. The potential for abuse is so high, only someone with an IQ less than 20 would use it.
Amazon (and Facebook) are clearly dangerous to privacy, but nothing like Google. I can opt out of Facebook and Amazon, but Google has their fingers in so many different parts of the internet that it's very, very difficult. When Schmidt said to The Atlantic: ?We know where you are. We know where you?ve been. We can more or less know what you?re thinking about." he wasn't joking.
I'm on your side, just reminding people that's it's a lot harder than they think to stay out of the profile aggregators' databases. Google is scary beyond belief, and most people continue sending them personal data every minute of every day.
I agree with what you say and short of not being on the internet at all, it is difficult to be totally free. I do use Gmail, but that's about it. I don't trust Google too much to be honest. I'm also glad that I'm not on Facebook, as they also are trying to gather info on everybody.
I agree with what you say and short of not being on the internet at all, it is difficult to be totally free. I do use Gmail, but that's about it. I don't trust Google too much to be honest. I'm also glad that I'm not on Facebook, as they also are trying to gather info on everybody.
Ouch! Of all the services from all the providers, I'd say you're using the worst of the worst, from a privacy standpoint. Every single word you type and every single word any of your friends or family send you is being harvested. And because so many people consider email to be "private" (hahahahahahaha!), they're likely to be far more loose-lipped than via other mediums. There are still more than enough utterly stupid Facebook users around, posting asinine stuff right out in public, but more and more people are at least paying some attention to what they post there in public. Then again, facebook's trends will eventually put everything in public.
Honestly, there's not much point in blocking any ads or such if you're going to use gmail. Nothing you or anyone else types in will ever, ever, ever go away. And unlike Facebook, you're unwittingly drawing others in that might prefer to NOT be profiled. Please, for the sake of your own privacy and those around you, consider using the "real" account that almost certainly came via your ISP. Or at least some provider that doesn't rely on tracking and profiling.
Yes, the new laws surrounding ISP data capture is worrisome as well, but Google's reach puts them into a category unto themselves.
This is what I was going to comment on. It seems as though we are getting web based companies releasing services for us that are really disguised attempts to get more of our data or usage patterns to sell to advertisers. Google is the master at this, considering that they have nothing to sell, and almost everything they have aimed at us is "free". of course, they track everything we do and sell that. Now Amazon is beginning to do that as well. There is no way they are going to make any major profit on these new devices by selling them, unlike how Apple makes its money through selling hardware.
The problem is that there is no way that Amazon can guarantee that customers will buy enough from them through these "tablets" to earn them a profit from their sale. So they have to resort in other methods. Tracking everything we do is one of those methods.
+1 for this.
As the modern adage goes, with Apple you are the customer, but with Google you are the content. Same goes for Facebook, you are the content they are selling.
We'll have to see if Amazon jumps from (mostly) the former to the latter. I think it would be detrimental to their business if customers start perceiving themselves to be Amazon's product. With Google services, at least you know you're not paying cash out of pocket. With Amazon, the presumption is that because you're a paying customer that Amazon makes their profit from your purchase, not from sales or other behind-the-scenes usage of private customer data.
Apple no longer does this. but besides the point, there is a very large difference. Amazon tracks everything you do on the device, every site you visit, every click you make...everything. The potential for abuse is so high, only someone with an IQ less than 20 would use it.
Apple knows much more about you, what you search and where you are, than you might realize. They also share those details with their advertising partners. Apple may not see advertising as their primary revenue source as Google does, but they're putting more effort into integrating location features into social apps to entice you and other Apple users into sharing even more travel and search details, which can then be used to build your personal consumer profile to attract more advertisers.
Read this article to see what changed with last years iOS4 update. Apple's efforts to know more about you including location, contacts and search history, and share it with advertisers isn't talked about much.
It doesn't make them evil, or sneaky or overly intrusive. Just be aware they're also in the game of delivering you as a product.
http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/sec...cy-policy/3951