Piper Jaffray estimates Amazon will lose $50 per Kindle Fire

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  • Reply 181 of 233
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,722member
    Ok, guys, criticize the post, and say whatever you want about it. Call it any name you want to, but don't call the poster extreme names. Saying something like; "What, are you nuts?" is fine but don't say, that they're a nut. Know what I mean?
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  • Reply 182 of 233
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,722member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by iKol View Post


    Hardly- then you must not know how to shop then. Must like overpaying or a B&N investor.



    No, you're just making statements that are wrong.
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  • Reply 183 of 233
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    Ok, guys, criticize the post, and say whatever you want about it. Call it any name you want to, but don't call the poster extreme names. Saying something like; "What, are you nuts?" is fine but don't say, that they're a nut. Know what I mean?



    Or note that their comment is nuts. Personal v. personalized attacks.
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  • Reply 184 of 233
    ikolikol Posts: 369member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    No, you're just making statements that are wrong.



    Well it may be wrong to your ears but it's is both true and accurate. Simply Google "Barnes and Noble overpriced" and tell me what you come up with.

    Sorry - you may know Apple info as a moderator at AI but your retail knowledge is inaccurate.



    Also I only made one statement. Perhaps I should have said "one of the most" overpriced retailers. But whatever- Amazon undercuts them as does Jand R for physical music and video items.
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  • Reply 185 of 233
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 24,772member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post


    No, it's about hating dishonesty. If the numbers were legit, they'd be open about how they are compiled. The fact that, at this point in time, no one outside of Google really has any idea exactly what is included in the activation numbers means they don't want us to know how they "count" them. For all anyone knows, they just make them up. Maybe not, but shrouding in secrecy exactly how an "activation" is defined and what's included in the numbers is a pretty sure sign that the numbers are not honest.



    Yes, I know you'll argue that they are honest, maybe that they "have no reason to lie", but the fact remains that their silence on the matter, when it's a pretty common point of discussion (i.e., Google can't claim they had no idea there was any controversy) indicates that they do have something to hide.



    So, the question remains, exactly what is it about those activation numbers they don't want us to know?



    I don't know anymore about activations than anyone else here. When you buy an Android, iPhone (or any other phone) it needs to be activated. Pretty straightforward, nothing confusing about that, right? Thus it's counted as an activation. Why do you and a few others try to read something sneaky or devious in there? How does Apple count activations? Probably the same way?
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  • Reply 186 of 233
    nhtnht Posts: 4,522member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by iKol View Post


    That's a plus, B&N is the most overpriced retailer out there and deserves to die. No tears here.



    Hmmm...with Borders gone and the death of all the Mom and Pops bookstores around a decade ago that pretty much just leaves B&N locally.



    I guess you welcome your Amazon overlords eh?
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  • Reply 187 of 233
    nhtnht Posts: 4,522member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by iKol View Post


    Well it may be wrong to your ears but it's is both true and accurate. Simply Google "Barnes and Noble overpriced" and tell me what you come up with.



    A brick and mortar book store that isn't going bankrupt?



    Quote:

    Amazon undercuts them as does Jand R for physical music and video items.



    Well no shit internet vendors beat brick and mortar on price.
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  • Reply 188 of 233
    nhtnht Posts: 4,522member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    I'm not sure if the Fire has a capacitive screen or not. I'm keep reading that the touch models are using an IR method, where your finger intercepts beams to give the position. I'd like to know more. One thing I read is that it's two finger touch. But I haven't read everything that's been written, so I could be wrong about the Fire.



    It's not hard to google. Everyone is reporting IPS, capacitive, gorilla glass. Even when they are talking about the IR touch. For example:



    "Capacitive touch is what's used in most smartphones and tablets, including virtually all Android devices, the iPhone, iPad and newer BlackBerrys. It's also the technology embedded in Amazon's new $199 Kindle Fire, a multimedia tablet."



    http://edition.cnn.com/2011/09/29/te...-touch-screen/
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  • Reply 189 of 233
    jragostajragosta Posts: 10,473member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post


    "Run businesses"? "Multibillion dollar companies?" LOL. For all I know - and care - you could be a homeless bum talking big on the internet. What you claim to do in some anonymous public forum is utterly irrelevant.



    Moreover, the fact that you may be doing so or have done so doesn't mean diddly-squat. Lehman Bothers had far smarter people than you.... for instance.... so what?



    You use insults as a substitute for honest argument. It's like you've got tourette's syndrome or something. (That's your wont, although I have to tell you that I feel badly for the people around you). Get a grip, pal.



    "Below the line"? What a stupid, meaningless cliche. Deflect an important question (no, not the one about "below the line" which wasn't really a question) by resorting to ad hominems. You have no clue about something as basic as Cost of Goods Sold and have the temerity to tell others to educate themselves!



    I am utterly uninterested in the ramblings of an illiterate. No make that an arrogant illiterate. Come back after you lose your arrogance. You might actually learn something.



    The fact is that you don't know what 'below the line' means - and virtually anyone who has ever dealt with business finances uses the term. Therefore, it is clear that you don't have a clue about business finance.



    But that was obvious from your inane posts earlier.



    Oh, and btw, your claim that I don't know anything about COGS is just plain wrong. As was demonstrated earlier, it is YOU who don't understand the term.
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  • Reply 190 of 233
    hmmhmm Posts: 3,405member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by iKol View Post


    That's a plus, B&N is the most overpriced retailer out there and deserves to die. No tears here.



    You know the margin on books really isn't that excessive right? You can't possibly expect a brick and mortar store to match the prices of Amazon. I'm not sure how far back you can remember but Amazon started out encouraging online ordering by discount pricing. Such a model doesn't work for retail spaces in expensive locations.
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  • Reply 191 of 233
    macrulezmacrulez Posts: 2,455member
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  • Reply 192 of 233
    macrulezmacrulez Posts: 2,455member
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  • Reply 193 of 233
    macrulezmacrulez Posts: 2,455member
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  • Reply 194 of 233
    jragostajragosta Posts: 10,473member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post


    I don't know anymore about activations than anyone else here. When you buy an Android, iPhone (or any other phone) it needs to be activated. Pretty straightforward, nothing confusing about that, right? Thus it's counted as an activation. Why do you and a few others try to read something sneaky or devious in there? How does Apple count activations? Probably the same way?



    The difference is that Apple is able to track unique devices. Every device has a serial number and that number is recorded when it is activated. When someone REactivates a device, Apple knows that it's not a new device.



    Google refuses to explain how they track activations. So, it's not unreasonable to take them at their word. Every time a device is activated, they count it. But any given device could be activated multiple times (for all the reasons given above). So, since Google simply tells you how many activations occur, it is logical to believe that the number of UNIQUE phone activations is less than the total number of activations which Google reports.
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  • Reply 195 of 233
    nhtnht Posts: 4,522member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by MacRulez View Post


    The infrared tech you mentioned is used in the lower-priced Kindle Touch (an interesting way to solve that problem; thanks for bringing it to my attention).



    IR is typically used on large multi-touch screen (like 50") and often as a kit to add on to a large LCD or Plasma. Hard to get a 50" capacitance panel...



    The problem with IR for multi-touch is shadows. Single touch easy. Two fingers easy. Keep going and you start worrying about obscuration depending on number and location of sensors. Especially if used in a table top format and folks start putting coffee mugs on it. Then you're like "Really? You thought that was a good place to put your mug?".



    Good enough for pinch and zoom, pointing and simple gestures. So-so for multi-user collaboration surfaces.



    For something like an eReader, single touch and small size it should work well unless there's some IR source that drowns out the signal.
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  • Reply 196 of 233
    macrulezmacrulez Posts: 2,455member
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  • Reply 197 of 233
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    Have you ever tried a 7" tablet?



    Yeah, I bought one in part because I find my iPad to be too big to carry around with me everywhere. For what it does, the 7" form factor is superior, especially as an eReader. Of course, the downside is that it's a cheap and slow Android monstrosity. If Apple built a 7" iPad/iPod touch variant I know I'd buy one for sure. And I have no intention of upgrading to a new future version of the iPad unless it is smaller than the current screen size.
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  • Reply 198 of 233
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 24,772member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jragosta View Post


    The difference is that Apple is able to track unique devices. Every device has a serial number and that number is recorded when it is activated. When someone REactivates a device, Apple knows that it's not a new device.



    Google refuses to explain how they track activations. So, it's not unreasonable to take them at their word. Every time a device is activated, they count it. But any given device could be activated multiple times (for all the reasons given above). So, since Google simply tells you how many activations occur, it is logical to believe that the number of UNIQUE phone activations is less than the total number of activations which Google reports.



    So when Apple was reporting activations they said they were counting individual UDID's? Does Apple count an activation when a new customer activates his freshly purchased second-hand iPhone? What if it's purchased new, returned and resold to a different customer? Is that another activation? Has Apple ever clearly stated how they count activation? Dunno, but perhaps you do?



    FWIW since Android tablets without cellular service don't go thru activation, they may not be counted at all. Google said that only a subset of newly purchased Android devices actually get reported in the activation numbers, which could be explained by devices like tablets that wouldn't be "activated" for service. The actual number of Android devices (with Google services) in consumer hands could even be higher than their stated activation numbers.
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  • Reply 199 of 233
    jragostajragosta Posts: 10,473member
    [QUOTE=Gatorguy;1953780]So when Apple was reporting activations they said they were counting individual UDID's? Does Apple count an activation when a new customer activates his freshly purchased second-hand iPhone? What if it's purchased new, returned and resold to a different customer? Is that another activation? Has Apple ever clearly stated how they count activation? Dunno, but perhaps you do?/QUOTE]



    Apple rarely talks about activation. Almost all of Apple's comments are about devices sold. And when they DO talk about activation, they almost always say "xxx NEW devices activated" so used ones wouldn't count.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post


    FWIW since Android tablets without cellular service don't go thru activation, they may not be counted at all. Google said that only a subset of newly purchased Android devices actually get reported in the activation numbers, which could be explained by devices like tablets that wouldn't be "activated" for service. The actual number of Android devices (with Google services) in consumer hands could even be higher than their stated activation numbers.



    Except that the number of non-cellular Android devices is insignificant.
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  • Reply 200 of 233
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