It is a fact that apple can no longer compete in the smartphone market against such large players now like HTC and Samsung with just hardware and physical features
I guess that explains why the #1 and #2 phones in the world by sales are from HTC and Samsung.
Oh, wait....
Quote:
Originally Posted by asdasd
Its a much more competitive world.. And it is not just Apple Insider. Take a look at AAPL since the rumours of the iPhone 5 not being anything other than an iPhone 4S went into over-drive. It;s off by $30.
Go to that page. Click on the box that says NASDAQ and the one that says GOOG. Apple's drop was about the same as the NASDAQ and Google over the same time period. So much for your theory.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonamac
So it has a significantly faster dual-core processor, twice as much RAM, a better camera and is HSPA+ ready. What exactly would make this any more of a 'new' phone? It's an across the board upgrade!
Exactly.
But it doesn't have 4 USB 3.0 ports, serial ports, a parallel port, and 1959 Cadillac style tailfins, so it's of no use.. .
He is wrong anyway, that really is what they sell for here. No US iPhone Carrie gives you a discount for bringing an unlocked phone, so you are not really paying more over time. The price to the consumer is $99.
What they sell for in the US is the off contract price. What carriers decide to do when you come to them with an unlocked phone is up to them ( it reeks of being a cartel) but it totally irrelevent to the rest of the world where Apple hopes to grow in future. In the rest of the world you get cheap off contract plans, per month, with data from $10 in many cases.
If there is only a 4S, and no 5, the 3GS has to be the cheap model. If there is a 5, the 4 can be the cheap model. At the moment there is no cheap model.
I never expected Apple to drastically redesign the iPhone just one year after a major redesign. It costs too much R&D, and if you upgrade when the redesigns come out, then you have to wait 2 years anyway because of your phone carrier contract. Apple is rewarding those in that cycle, and the people 1 year out of cycle get a speed bump. This year's speed bump will come (hopefully) with huge software updates to make it worthwhile. I always expected a 4S and not a 5.
Those who want to upgrade will, and those who don't will wait until next year.
Go to that page. Click on the box that says NASDAQ and the one that says GOOG. Apple's drop was about the same as the NASDAQ and Google over the same time period. So much for your theory.
Exactly.
But it doesn't have 4 USB 3.0 ports, serial ports, a parallel port, and 1959 Cadillac style tailfins, so it's of no use.. .
People who roll eyes too much should be perm-banned. Particularly if they are talking crap.
I think they're going to launch both the 4S and 5. Check out this quote from the Case Mate website:
Will it be iPhone 5 or 4s?
The debate continues on whether the new iPhone will be an iPhone 5 or iPhone 4S. From our inside resources, it appears that Apple will be indeed launching both an iPhone 5 and an iPhone 4S in early October. The speculation indicates that the iPhone 4S will feature the same form factor as the iPhone 4 but will be upgraded with the latest technology, including the A5 dual-core processor and 8 mega-pixel camera.
But to justify the claim of crap - putting in google into the model shows them down 2% over 5 days ( not the one day the poster above was talking about) , and Apple is down 5%. Nasdaq is down 2%.
Over the month Apple is back where it started and google is down 2%; however Apple bucked the market - when he rumours of two models of iPhone were announced - mid month September.
The Android landscape wasn't nearly as developed in 2009 as it is now, and Windows Mobile had crashed and burned. There is significantly more competition in the smartphone space than there was two years ago. I doubt Apple will be able to use improved software to gloss over the lack of a new design the way they did with the 3GS.
Indeed. I think the most troubling thing about the lack of redesign would be that it makes it look like Apple's R&D has hit a wall. If this were happening in June, I might be able to give them the benefit of the doubt. But they've had almost a year and a half to work on this! How could they possibly only be putting in a faster processor, more RAM, and a better camera after all that time? Keep in mind also that the A5 processor is already almost half way through its life cycle (assuming Apple continues to introduce a new processor on a yearly cycle).
Apple will never lower the pixel density back to pre-retina levels. But we can always hope that they might violate their pixel count rule!
I personally do not hope that. Many developers would agree with me, I believe.
I think they're going to launch both the 4S and 5. Check out this quote from the Case Mate website:
Will it be iPhone 5 or 4s?
The debate continues on whether the new iPhone will be an iPhone 5 or iPhone 4S. From our inside resources, it appears that Apple will be indeed launching both an iPhone 5 and an iPhone 4S in early October. The speculation indicates that the iPhone 4S will feature the same form factor as the iPhone 4 but will be upgraded with the latest technology, including the A5 dual-core processor and 8 mega-pixel camera.
If this is true, in Orwellian fashion, the people claiming that only software matters will be proclaiming the brilliance of the new design.
My 2 Euro cent on it is this: There is an iPhone 5. Apple will massively diversify their line in terms of pricing. iPhone 5, iPhone 4S, iPhone 4 and 3GS.
Everybody hostile to the idea now, will love it when it happens. I'll be definitely resurrecting this thread on Tuesday.
( Seriously the Apple can do no wrong posters really give the rest of us a bad name).
And don't discount iOS5. Form factor is not why people buy the iPhone. It's apps, features, and usability.
I agree 100 percent. Right now I am using a Samsung Focus running Mango and it is great. The form factor of the Focus is nice. The phone is light, well constructed (even if it is plastic), and the screen is gorgeous...AND...4 inches is a perfect size for a screen. Some of the new features in Mango put iOS to shame.
BUT...I use a number of apps that are iOS only. My problem is that I hate the iPhone form factor. It is just uncomfortable to hold versus the Focus and my old 3GS. If the only upgrade are internal components I will either buy a nice, used 3GS OR keep using the Samsung Focus and just buy an iPod Touch (or iPad).
My hope is the next iteration of iPhone that I buy will be have a metal back like the 1st gen iPhone versus the glass or plastic seen in the iPhone 4 and 3GS, respectively.
Controls stay the same size but can be programmed to keep the same distance from the edge of a screen, or another control etc. None too different to the way resizing works on a window on OS X when resized. Its not a huge challenge.
Not a huge challenge but the result is inconsistent look of apps. You cannot compare this to a Mac because there are no windows on the iPhone. Key to Apple's design ethos is the consistency of the look and feel of the apps. As someone else wrote (sorry, too lazy to look you up), developers would have been forewarned about such a change. Apple will NOT do this. Take it to the bank.
As for lowering the dpi, it is less of a travesty. But, as mentioned, this leaves the iPhone screen inferior to the Samsung. Would Apple allow this? Think, man, think!
Common sense, or not, it wont drive "explosive growth". The ratio of people who bought the 3GS two years ago is a small minority of all existing iPhone owners. Apple cant rely on them to drive growth. If there is no compelling reason for a switch from Android without a new form factor, so that wont drive growth, and if Apple dont have a wow factor, they wont get new smart phone users either.
Agreed. Apple needs a compelling phone to bring in new customers. If Apple does not deliver a new phone that more on par with modern smart phones, Apple may likely see their market share slip by mid next year. iPhone's market share has already been stagnant as Android's continues to grow as is.
And, yes, Apple deeply cares about market share despite some people who ignorantly claim otherwise. Android is a threat that Apple needs to take seriously. Much of their profits stem from iOS-based devices, and if consumers end up favoring Android based devices, there goes the profits from the iPhone and iPad sales.
Here is another perspective - if Apple is going to release a single model, why wouldn't they just call it iPhone 5? Why would one of the most savvy marketing companies in the world emphasize the lack of new features by calling it 4S?
I can see a case for a $49 (under AT&T/Verizon contract) iPhone 4, an iPhone 4S with updated internal components in an iPhone 4 casing, and the tapered iPhone 5 with the larger display.
I agree with this 100%+ except for the iP5's new tapered design. Aside from the wedge design of the Air line of MacBooks, which I feel is both for ease of carrying and additional perceived overall thinness, Apple (Jonathan Ive) is a symmetrical form factor design company (person).
I believe the new model is being kept totally hush-hush in classic Apple style. 2 models are the perfect argument for the delayed refresh. New iP5 with an iPad 2 rounded corner aluminum back and larger screen, plus a bumped processor/camera/antenna for the iP4S.
Just a guess, of course, but makes perfect, logical Apple sense in my mind.
Edit: Plus the fact that it's "game on" with too many other competitors. Apple knows they have to stay far ahead to keep their edge.....or look for the stock to drop at least 8-10% as soon as Tim Cook says "Thanks for coming" without introducing a totally new iPhone device.
If an iPhone 4S is all that Apple releases next week, I'll be a bit disappointed.
When the iPhone 3GS was released in 2009, I stood in line for 3 hours at Crabtree Valley Mall in Raleigh, NC to get mine -- the day before my wedding no less, when I had guests coming in from out of town . But back in 2009, the iPhone really had no competition -- why would I want to go with anything else?
When the iPhone 4 came out, I pre-ordered on day one because while the Android competition had started to gain some steam, Apple was still clearly ahead of the pack in more ways than one.
However, fourteen months later, I wonder. If Apple is going to use the same design with upgraded innards, it seems like a poor decision to make. The competitive landscape is very different now. According to Nielsen, Android smartphones make up 43% of the U.S. smartphone market. Apple is losing market share, now down at 28%.
Playing it safe isn't in the cards anymore. It's time to start curb-stomping the competition.
And the same tired complaints don't work anymore:
1) Well, Apple sells only needs to sell two types of phones (iPhone 4 and iPhone 3GS)
2) Well, Apple makes more profit per phone
3) Well, Android manufacturers dump cheap phones and B1G1 offers on consumers
To tell you the truth, that stuff may matter to investors, but it obviously doesn't matter to consumers, or they wouldn't be buying Android smartphones. Apple obviously sees the threat, hence all the lawsuits.
I guess my point is; I'd like to see Apple take some chances on the hardware side (again). Thinner, lighter, larger screen, with an aluminum unibody makes sense. We've been on a 3.5" screen since day one -- give it up. It's time to move on.
Remember, this isn't just about grabbing onto existing Apple customers; this is also about taking BACK those customers that have jumped ship to Android. Dual-core processor, 512MB of RAM, 8MP camera? Pfff, Android users have been eatin' that s**t up for nearly year. What would make them want to move to an iPhone 4S?
I also think that LTE should be in there as well. Verizon has already substantially built out its LTE network (AT&T's LTE network is still in its infancy, however), it'd be a damn shame if we have to wait another year (or fourteen months) just to have the privilege of having LTE on an iPhone when everyone in their grandma on the Android side has been enjoying it for nearly a year now.
STOP PLAYING IT SAFE, APPLE. KNOCK SOME F**KING TEETH OUT!
STOP PLAYING IT SAFE, APPLE. KNOCK SOME F**KING TEETH OUT!
See, this is EXACTLY what I want to see from Apple. Apple redefined the phone with the original iPhone. Apple set the standard on modern smart phone functionality and usability. I want to see Apple introduce a new phone and say, "hey guys, nice job on ripping off our old stuff, but here is the next big thing."
Anybody who visits tech websites should notice there are constantly raving reviews on the latest Android phones. Apple needs to take note of this and introduce a phone that makes any new Android phone that is introduced in the next year receive a review that says "nice, but it's not quite the iPhone."
Android phones have already seen larger displays, curved glass, 3D displays, NFC, 4G, 1.5 GHz dual-core processors, 1 GB RAM, 8 MP cameras, etc. Quad-core processors and 16 MP cameras are about to hit Android phones soon.
I'm seriously hoping Apple has an iPhone 5 surprise planned for next week. If the best Apple can deliver in 16 months is an iPhone 4 chassis with some iPad 2 upgrades, there will be some disappointed people and investors. iOS 5 mostly seems to play catchup with Android and Windows Phone, so most of the new software features are a "been there, done that."
to be fair though I like the way iOS 5 handles notifications better than Android. The fact that you can dismiss a single line at a time pretty much is a huge improvement over any android pre 3.0
Comments
It is a fact that apple can no longer compete in the smartphone market against such large players now like HTC and Samsung with just hardware and physical features
I guess that explains why the #1 and #2 phones in the world by sales are from HTC and Samsung.
Oh, wait....
Its a much more competitive world.. And it is not just Apple Insider. Take a look at AAPL since the rumours of the iPhone 5 not being anything other than an iPhone 4S went into over-drive. It;s off by $30.
http://www.google.co.uk/finance?client=ob&q=NASDAQ:AAPL
ROTFLMAO.
Go to that page. Click on the box that says NASDAQ and the one that says GOOG. Apple's drop was about the same as the NASDAQ and Google over the same time period. So much for your theory.
So it has a significantly faster dual-core processor, twice as much RAM, a better camera and is HSPA+ ready. What exactly would make this any more of a 'new' phone? It's an across the board upgrade!
Exactly.
But it doesn't have 4 USB 3.0 ports, serial ports, a parallel port, and 1959 Cadillac style tailfins, so it's of no use.. .
He is wrong anyway, that really is what they sell for here. No US iPhone Carrie gives you a discount for bringing an unlocked phone, so you are not really paying more over time. The price to the consumer is $99.
What they sell for in the US is the off contract price. What carriers decide to do when you come to them with an unlocked phone is up to them ( it reeks of being a cartel) but it totally irrelevent to the rest of the world where Apple hopes to grow in future. In the rest of the world you get cheap off contract plans, per month, with data from $10 in many cases.
If there is only a 4S, and no 5, the 3GS has to be the cheap model. If there is a 5, the 4 can be the cheap model. At the moment there is no cheap model.
Those who want to upgrade will, and those who don't will wait until next year.
ROTFLMAO.
Go to that page. Click on the box that says NASDAQ and the one that says GOOG. Apple's drop was about the same as the NASDAQ and Google over the same time period. So much for your theory.
Exactly.
But it doesn't have 4 USB 3.0 ports, serial ports, a parallel port, and 1959 Cadillac style tailfins, so it's of no use.. .
People who roll eyes too much should be perm-banned. Particularly if they are talking crap.
Will it be iPhone 5 or 4s?
The debate continues on whether the new iPhone will be an iPhone 5 or iPhone 4S. From our inside resources, it appears that Apple will be indeed launching both an iPhone 5 and an iPhone 4S in early October. The speculation indicates that the iPhone 4S will feature the same form factor as the iPhone 4 but will be upgraded with the latest technology, including the A5 dual-core processor and 8 mega-pixel camera.
http://www.case-mate.com/iphone-5-4s-cases/
Over the month Apple is back where it started and google is down 2%; however Apple bucked the market - when he rumours of two models of iPhone were announced - mid month September.
The Android landscape wasn't nearly as developed in 2009 as it is now, and Windows Mobile had crashed and burned. There is significantly more competition in the smartphone space than there was two years ago. I doubt Apple will be able to use improved software to gloss over the lack of a new design the way they did with the 3GS.
Indeed. I think the most troubling thing about the lack of redesign would be that it makes it look like Apple's R&D has hit a wall. If this were happening in June, I might be able to give them the benefit of the doubt. But they've had almost a year and a half to work on this! How could they possibly only be putting in a faster processor, more RAM, and a better camera after all that time? Keep in mind also that the A5 processor is already almost half way through its life cycle (assuming Apple continues to introduce a new processor on a yearly cycle).
Apple will never lower the pixel density back to pre-retina levels. But we can always hope that they might violate their pixel count rule!
I personally do not hope that. Many developers would agree with me, I believe.
I think they're going to launch both the 4S and 5. Check out this quote from the Case Mate website:
Will it be iPhone 5 or 4s?
The debate continues on whether the new iPhone will be an iPhone 5 or iPhone 4S. From our inside resources, it appears that Apple will be indeed launching both an iPhone 5 and an iPhone 4S in early October. The speculation indicates that the iPhone 4S will feature the same form factor as the iPhone 4 but will be upgraded with the latest technology, including the A5 dual-core processor and 8 mega-pixel camera.
http://www.case-mate.com/iphone-5-4s-cases/
If this is true, in Orwellian fashion, the people claiming that only software matters will be proclaiming the brilliance of the new design.
My 2 Euro cent on it is this: There is an iPhone 5. Apple will massively diversify their line in terms of pricing. iPhone 5, iPhone 4S, iPhone 4 and 3GS.
Everybody hostile to the idea now, will love it when it happens. I'll be definitely resurrecting this thread on Tuesday.
( Seriously the Apple can do no wrong posters really give the rest of us a bad name).
And don't discount iOS5. Form factor is not why people buy the iPhone. It's apps, features, and usability.
I agree 100 percent. Right now I am using a Samsung Focus running Mango and it is great. The form factor of the Focus is nice. The phone is light, well constructed (even if it is plastic), and the screen is gorgeous...AND...4 inches is a perfect size for a screen. Some of the new features in Mango put iOS to shame.
BUT...I use a number of apps that are iOS only. My problem is that I hate the iPhone form factor. It is just uncomfortable to hold versus the Focus and my old 3GS. If the only upgrade are internal components I will either buy a nice, used 3GS OR keep using the Samsung Focus and just buy an iPod Touch (or iPad).
My hope is the next iteration of iPhone that I buy will be have a metal back like the 1st gen iPhone versus the glass or plastic seen in the iPhone 4 and 3GS, respectively.
Controls stay the same size but can be programmed to keep the same distance from the edge of a screen, or another control etc. None too different to the way resizing works on a window on OS X when resized. Its not a huge challenge.
Not a huge challenge but the result is inconsistent look of apps. You cannot compare this to a Mac because there are no windows on the iPhone. Key to Apple's design ethos is the consistency of the look and feel of the apps. As someone else wrote (sorry, too lazy to look you up), developers would have been forewarned about such a change. Apple will NOT do this. Take it to the bank.
As for lowering the dpi, it is less of a travesty. But, as mentioned, this leaves the iPhone screen inferior to the Samsung. Would Apple allow this? Think, man, think!
Common sense, or not, it wont drive "explosive growth". The ratio of people who bought the 3GS two years ago is a small minority of all existing iPhone owners. Apple cant rely on them to drive growth. If there is no compelling reason for a switch from Android without a new form factor, so that wont drive growth, and if Apple dont have a wow factor, they wont get new smart phone users either.
Agreed. Apple needs a compelling phone to bring in new customers. If Apple does not deliver a new phone that more on par with modern smart phones, Apple may likely see their market share slip by mid next year. iPhone's market share has already been stagnant as Android's continues to grow as is.
And, yes, Apple deeply cares about market share despite some people who ignorantly claim otherwise. Android is a threat that Apple needs to take seriously. Much of their profits stem from iOS-based devices, and if consumers end up favoring Android based devices, there goes the profits from the iPhone and iPad sales.
I can see a case for a $49 (under AT&T/Verizon contract) iPhone 4, an iPhone 4S with updated internal components in an iPhone 4 casing, and the tapered iPhone 5 with the larger display.
I agree with this 100%+ except for the iP5's new tapered design. Aside from the wedge design of the Air line of MacBooks, which I feel is both for ease of carrying and additional perceived overall thinness, Apple (Jonathan Ive) is a symmetrical form factor design company (person).
I believe the new model is being kept totally hush-hush in classic Apple style. 2 models are the perfect argument for the delayed refresh. New iP5 with an iPad 2 rounded corner aluminum back and larger screen, plus a bumped processor/camera/antenna for the iP4S.
Just a guess, of course, but makes perfect, logical Apple sense in my mind.
Edit: Plus the fact that it's "game on" with too many other competitors. Apple knows they have to stay far ahead to keep their edge.....or look for the stock to drop at least 8-10% as soon as Tim Cook says "Thanks for coming" without introducing a totally new iPhone device.
When the iPhone 3GS was released in 2009, I stood in line for 3 hours at Crabtree Valley Mall in Raleigh, NC to get mine -- the day before my wedding no less, when I had guests coming in from out of town
When the iPhone 4 came out, I pre-ordered on day one because while the Android competition had started to gain some steam, Apple was still clearly ahead of the pack in more ways than one.
However, fourteen months later, I wonder. If Apple is going to use the same design with upgraded innards, it seems like a poor decision to make. The competitive landscape is very different now. According to Nielsen, Android smartphones make up 43% of the U.S. smartphone market. Apple is losing market share, now down at 28%.
http://blog.nielsen.com/nielsenwire/...acing-android/
Playing it safe isn't in the cards anymore. It's time to start curb-stomping the competition.
And the same tired complaints don't work anymore:
1) Well, Apple sells only needs to sell two types of phones (iPhone 4 and iPhone 3GS)
2) Well, Apple makes more profit per phone
3) Well, Android manufacturers dump cheap phones and B1G1 offers on consumers
To tell you the truth, that stuff may matter to investors, but it obviously doesn't matter to consumers, or they wouldn't be buying Android smartphones. Apple obviously sees the threat, hence all the lawsuits.
I guess my point is; I'd like to see Apple take some chances on the hardware side (again). Thinner, lighter, larger screen, with an aluminum unibody makes sense. We've been on a 3.5" screen since day one -- give it up. It's time to move on.
Remember, this isn't just about grabbing onto existing Apple customers; this is also about taking BACK those customers that have jumped ship to Android. Dual-core processor, 512MB of RAM, 8MP camera? Pfff, Android users have been eatin' that s**t up for nearly year. What would make them want to move to an iPhone 4S?
I also think that LTE should be in there as well. Verizon has already substantially built out its LTE network (AT&T's LTE network is still in its infancy, however), it'd be a damn shame if we have to wait another year (or fourteen months) just to have the privilege of having LTE on an iPhone when everyone in their grandma on the Android side has been enjoying it for nearly a year now.
STOP PLAYING IT SAFE, APPLE. KNOCK SOME F**KING TEETH OUT!
STOP PLAYING IT SAFE, APPLE. KNOCK SOME F**KING TEETH OUT!
See, this is EXACTLY what I want to see from Apple. Apple redefined the phone with the original iPhone. Apple set the standard on modern smart phone functionality and usability. I want to see Apple introduce a new phone and say, "hey guys, nice job on ripping off our old stuff, but here is the next big thing."
Anybody who visits tech websites should notice there are constantly raving reviews on the latest Android phones. Apple needs to take note of this and introduce a phone that makes any new Android phone that is introduced in the next year receive a review that says "nice, but it's not quite the iPhone."
and there is likely an iPhone 5
I have the iPhone 4 I white and I have an ugly black oval above my speaker
Android phones have already seen larger displays, curved glass, 3D displays, NFC, 4G, 1.5 GHz dual-core processors, 1 GB RAM, 8 MP cameras, etc. Quad-core processors and 16 MP cameras are about to hit Android phones soon.
I'm seriously hoping Apple has an iPhone 5 surprise planned for next week. If the best Apple can deliver in 16 months is an iPhone 4 chassis with some iPad 2 upgrades, there will be some disappointed people and investors. iOS 5 mostly seems to play catchup with Android and Windows Phone, so most of the new software features are a "been there, done that."
to be fair though I like the way iOS 5 handles notifications better than Android. The fact that you can dismiss a single line at a time pretty much is a huge improvement over any android pre 3.0