Sorry for the rant, and I own iPod, iPad, iPhone, two MacBooks, airport etc, but if apple does not step up for the next release cycle I may downgrade back to iPod touch and get an android phone.
Unfortunately the new iPhone 4S has yet to be added. But then, like most sensible people, they don''t make final judgements on something they don't have in hand.
It's important to remember that Apple was founded by an inventor who revolutionized what was possible for an operating system on RAM smaller than the filesize of a resume. I wonder if Apple sees it more as a bragging point and challenge to keep the iPhones at 512MB rather than feel pressured to follow the Android crowd to 1GB+
2) Don't think that both having a general classification of A5 on the chip means the A5's are the same. Note the iPad's 'A4' chip came with 256MB RAM whilst the iPhone 4's A4 came with 512MB RAM. Also note during last week's event they mentioned the A5 having an ISP for the iPhone 4S's camera.
In fact, it is. The A5 is a POP (package on package) part, which has the CPU and the RAM on the same chip. This doesn't mean Apple could not have made a version that has more RAM though, but clearly it's a lot more cost effective to have only a single variation of the A5 chip you can use in multiple devices.
In fact, it is NOT.
With all due respect, you can't just read Wikipedia or Appleinsider, and believe that's whole story.
Perhaps it's semantics about what a chip is in today's world. Most assuredly, in the semiconductor business, the two *packages* are considered separate entities. Most of the time, they only come together in one of the final steps of manufacturing of the circuit board. Cost savings is not a factor in the sense you imply because the CPU layer and the memory layer are manufactured independently, often by different manufacturers.
All to say, the RAM is NOT part of the CPU and can be easily interchanged. Now, if they are stacked-die packages, then you'd be right because they cannot be interchanged.
With all due respect, you can't just read Wikipedia or Appleinsider, and believe that's whole story.
Perhaps it's semantics about what a chip is in today's world. Most assuredly, in the semiconductor business, the two *packages* are considered separate entities. Most of the time, they only come together in one of the final steps of manufacturing of the circuit board. Cost savings is not a factor in the sense you imply because the CPU layer and the memory layer are manufactured independently, often by different manufacturers.
All to say, the RAM is NOT part of the CPU and can be easily interchanged. Now, if they are stacked-die packages, then you'd be right because they cannot be interchanged.
Semantics...
With 'CPU', I meant the A5 SoC as a whole, not just the collection of transistors that make up the CPU part, if we start nitpicking about that you could even say the GPU is not 'on the CPU' even though it's pretty clear that if someone says so, he means that the GPU and CPU are the same chip (were chip means: the black square thingy on the iPhone logic board).
So assuming we agree on this loose definition of 'the A5 CPU', which in fact is more than just a CPU, I think you can safely say the RAM is 'on the CPU'. Like I said, in my earlier post, this does not mean Apple couldn't make an A5 CPU with 1 GB of RAM, but surely it's much more cost effective to make ALL of the A5 CPU's exactly the same. Just ebcause you join the RAM package to the CPU package late in the production process, that doesn't mean the CPU package can be used unmodified with any size of RAM package you bolt on top of it. Are you really arguing that it would be trivial and inexpensive to put up seperate production lines for 512 MB and 1 GB versions of the A5?
I didn't get this from Wikipedia by the way, and I believe that over 10 years in the semiconductor industry should be sufficient to judge whether the RAM is 'on the CPU'.
OF the entire PoP you think looking at the amount of RAM makes the chip exactly the same. I guess a steak and frozen turkey burger are the same in your eyes if they contain 1/2lb of meat.
OF the entire PoP you think looking at the amount of RAM makes the chip exactly the same. I guess a steak and frozen turkey burger are the same in your eyes if they contain 1/2lb of meat.
What part of "512MB of RAM" can't you comprehend?
You still haven't stated what "specs aren't the same"?
You still haven't stated what "specs aren't the same"?
Waiting.
I've never stated the specs aren't the same. I stated that looking only at the amount or RAM is not proof that all the specs are exactly the same or that looking at the branding of the chip doesn't make them exactly the same. I then used a great example of the iPad and iPhone 4 which both have an A4 but are clearly not the same chip.
Unfortunately the new iPhone 4S has yet to be added. But then, like most sensible people, they don''t make final judgements on something they don't have in hand.
Most of the more highly rated releases (besides the iPhone 4S) are missing from that particular site. There's no Galaxy II, Sensation 4G, Droid Bionic, etc.
I've never stated the specs aren't the same. I stated that looking only at the amount or RAM is not proof that all the specs are exactly the same or that looking at the branding of the chip doesn't make them exactly the same. I then used a great example of the iPad and iPhone 4 which both have an A4 but are clearly not the same chip.
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism
1) The specs aren't the same.
2) Don't think that both having a general classification of A5 on the chip means the A5's are the same. Note the iPad's 'A4' chip came with 256MB RAM whilst the iPhone 4's A4 came with 512MB RAM. Also note during last week's event they mentioned the A5 having an ISP for the iPhone 4S's camera.
In fact, it is. The A5 is a POP (package on package) part, which has the CPU and the RAM on the same chip. This doesn't mean Apple could not have made a version that has more RAM though, but clearly it's a lot more cost effective to have only a single variation of the A5 chip you can use in multiple devices.
You can say the RAM is built into the A5 chip, but stelligent is technically correct stating the RAM isn't built into the CPU. Colloquially it's fine to refer to the PoP as simply the CPU, but this is a technical forum so it's usually best to side with being more detailed.
Most of the more highly rated releases (besides the iPhone 4S) are missing from that particular site. There's no Galaxy II, Sensation 4G, Droid Bionic, etc.
I guess they have to be available for a little while first.
If I bother to check the site again, I will gladly post it. Wouldn't want someone choosing a smart phone without something to guide their way.
Comments
Sorry for the rant, and I own iPod, iPad, iPhone, two MacBooks, airport etc, but if apple does not step up for the next release cycle I may downgrade back to iPod touch and get an android phone.
Sounds like you already have downgraded yourself.
In any event, let me help you out.
Here's a pretty good site by TopTenReviews, "2011 Best Smartphone Comparisons and Reviews" to assist you in your quest.
Unfortunately the new iPhone 4S has yet to be added. But then, like most sensible people, they don''t make final judgements on something they don't have in hand.
1) The specs aren't the same.
2) Don't think that both having a general classification of A5 on the chip means the A5's are the same. Note the iPad's 'A4' chip came with 256MB RAM whilst the iPhone 4's A4 came with 512MB RAM. Also note during last week's event they mentioned the A5 having an ISP for the iPhone 4S's camera.
What specs arent the same?
Both 4S and iPad 2= 512MB RAM
In fact, it is. The A5 is a POP (package on package) part, which has the CPU and the RAM on the same chip. This doesn't mean Apple could not have made a version that has more RAM though, but clearly it's a lot more cost effective to have only a single variation of the A5 chip you can use in multiple devices.
In fact, it is NOT.
With all due respect, you can't just read Wikipedia or Appleinsider, and believe that's whole story.
Perhaps it's semantics about what a chip is in today's world. Most assuredly, in the semiconductor business, the two *packages* are considered separate entities. Most of the time, they only come together in one of the final steps of manufacturing of the circuit board. Cost savings is not a factor in the sense you imply because the CPU layer and the memory layer are manufactured independently, often by different manufacturers.
All to say, the RAM is NOT part of the CPU and can be easily interchanged. Now, if they are stacked-die packages, then you'd be right because they cannot be interchanged.
In fact, it is NOT.
With all due respect, you can't just read Wikipedia or Appleinsider, and believe that's whole story.
Perhaps it's semantics about what a chip is in today's world. Most assuredly, in the semiconductor business, the two *packages* are considered separate entities. Most of the time, they only come together in one of the final steps of manufacturing of the circuit board. Cost savings is not a factor in the sense you imply because the CPU layer and the memory layer are manufactured independently, often by different manufacturers.
All to say, the RAM is NOT part of the CPU and can be easily interchanged. Now, if they are stacked-die packages, then you'd be right because they cannot be interchanged.
Semantics...
With 'CPU', I meant the A5 SoC as a whole, not just the collection of transistors that make up the CPU part, if we start nitpicking about that you could even say the GPU is not 'on the CPU' even though it's pretty clear that if someone says so, he means that the GPU and CPU are the same chip (were chip means: the black square thingy on the iPhone logic board).
So assuming we agree on this loose definition of 'the A5 CPU', which in fact is more than just a CPU, I think you can safely say the RAM is 'on the CPU'. Like I said, in my earlier post, this does not mean Apple couldn't make an A5 CPU with 1 GB of RAM, but surely it's much more cost effective to make ALL of the A5 CPU's exactly the same. Just ebcause you join the RAM package to the CPU package late in the production process, that doesn't mean the CPU package can be used unmodified with any size of RAM package you bolt on top of it. Are you really arguing that it would be trivial and inexpensive to put up seperate production lines for 512 MB and 1 GB versions of the A5?
I didn't get this from Wikipedia by the way, and I believe that over 10 years in the semiconductor industry should be sufficient to judge whether the RAM is 'on the CPU'.
What specs arent the same?
Both 4S and iPad 2= 512MB RAM
OF the entire PoP you think looking at the amount of RAM makes the chip exactly the same. I guess a steak and frozen turkey burger are the same in your eyes if they contain 1/2lb of meat.
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Just wandering, is your signature to be read as:
'Zero People Found This Reply Helpful' or
'Oh People Found This Reply Helpful'?
OF the entire PoP you think looking at the amount of RAM makes the chip exactly the same. I guess a steak and frozen turkey burger are the same in your eyes if they contain 1/2lb of meat.
What part of "512MB of RAM" can't you comprehend?
You still haven't stated what "specs aren't the same"?
Waiting.
What part of "512MB of RAM" can't you comprehend?
You still haven't stated what "specs aren't the same"?
Waiting.
I've never stated the specs aren't the same. I stated that looking only at the amount or RAM is not proof that all the specs are exactly the same or that looking at the branding of the chip doesn't make them exactly the same. I then used a great example of the iPad and iPhone 4 which both have an A4 but are clearly not the same chip.
Sounds like you already have downgraded yourself.
In any event, let me help you out.
Here's a pretty good site by TopTenReviews, "2011 Best Smartphone Comparisons and Reviews" to assist you in your quest.
Unfortunately the new iPhone 4S has yet to be added. But then, like most sensible people, they don''t make final judgements on something they don't have in hand.
Most of the more highly rated releases (besides the iPhone 4S) are missing from that particular site. There's no Galaxy II, Sensation 4G, Droid Bionic, etc.
I've never stated the specs aren't the same. I stated that looking only at the amount or RAM is not proof that all the specs are exactly the same or that looking at the branding of the chip doesn't make them exactly the same. I then used a great example of the iPad and iPhone 4 which both have an A4 but are clearly not the same chip.
1) The specs aren't the same.
2) Don't think that both having a general classification of A5 on the chip means the A5's are the same. Note the iPad's 'A4' chip came with 256MB RAM whilst the iPhone 4's A4 came with 512MB RAM. Also note during last week's event they mentioned the A5 having an ISP for the iPhone 4S's camera.
????
Are you dyslexic?
What part of "512MB of RAM" can't you comprehend?
What part of 'the chips aren't the same, therefore changing the dynamics of what a certain amount of RAM would mean' can't you comprehend?
What part of 'the chips aren't the same, therefore changing the dynamics of what a certain amount of RAM would mean' can't you comprehend?
As having never read that how would I possibly be able to comprehend that?
Am I dwelling in another dimension- Reality?
In fact, it is. The A5 is a POP (package on package) part, which has the CPU and the RAM on the same chip. This doesn't mean Apple could not have made a version that has more RAM though, but clearly it's a lot more cost effective to have only a single variation of the A5 chip you can use in multiple devices.
You can say the RAM is built into the A5 chip, but stelligent is technically correct stating the RAM isn't built into the CPU. Colloquially it's fine to refer to the PoP as simply the CPU, but this is a technical forum so it's usually best to side with being more detailed.
Most of the more highly rated releases (besides the iPhone 4S) are missing from that particular site. There's no Galaxy II, Sensation 4G, Droid Bionic, etc.
I guess they have to be available for a little while first.
If I bother to check the site again, I will gladly post it. Wouldn't want someone choosing a smart phone without something to guide their way.