Steve Jobs' cause of death officially listed as respiratory arrest

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  • Reply 61 of 66
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Panu View Post


    He didn't get the liver in California, and there was no scandal about medical ethics, which means being Steve Jobs was not the reason he got the liver, He got the liver because he was in a state where there wasn't a waiting list and the rules would let him have one.



    As I remember, the initial diagnosis was NOT metastatic pancreatic cancer, but a more rare form of pancreatic cancer that was amenable to resection; the very fact that it was resected means that it almost certainly had not metastasized. For that reason, a liver transplant was likely not contraidicated.
  • Reply 62 of 66
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Panu View Post


    Dying takes several days or weeks, assuming that death isn't caused by a sudden trauma, such as a gunshot or sudden loss of blood. At any point during the process, the patient can hit a plateau or even get better for a short time, at which time relatives may declare a miracle or think that the patient is getting better. This is difficult for medical personnel, because it is temporary and normal. The dying process is not a straight line.



    At the beginning, the patient begins to lose control over his extremities. He is frustrated that he cannot put on his slippers or button his pajamas, for example. He gradually cares about this less and less, and as he becomes bed-bound, he doesn't care.



    The patient's consciousness becomes shallower. In the beginning, the patient is lucid and "with it" when he is conscious, but he appears to take frequent naps. in the middle, as his consciousness gradually becomes shallower and the "naps" increase, he is only partially conscious and can only get out a few words. Toward the end, he is rarely conscious, if at all, and can only say a few words at a time. The patient may be incoherent and the voice is barely audible. Family members who can't face what's going on will read meaning into them even though others hear nothing. At the very end, the patient appears to be sleeping.



    The person gradually loses interest in food and drink, eventually feeling no discomfort. Toward the end, he won't chew food placed in his mouth and will gently choke if fluid is put in his mouth. At this point, you have to moisten his lips and mouth with a sponge, and that small amount of water may make him cough.



    Toward the end, blood pressure falls as the pulse rises into the range of tachycardia. That means the heart is less and less effective, circulation shuts down from the extremities inward, and organ failure begins. The hands and feet become ice cold to the touch, and depending on what position they are in, may turn purple. This is because of a lack of circulation.



    Toward the end, the patient breathes mechanically, like he's catching his breath. Breathing becomes shallower and shallower until it's hard to hear.



    It's hard to tell when the patient dies, because the only observable change is the lack of breathing. Your mind expects to see a person breathe, so you see the illusion of breathing in your peripheral vision. SInce breathing was so shallow, it takes careful observation and listening to determine that it has stopped.



    I saw three people go through this process in hospice care in my house and another in the ICU. Even though that is only four people, nurses and nurses aides, in the course of telling me what to expect, told me that this is the norm.



    My father instructed the hospice nurse, the nurse's aides, and me to tell him when he was in the final stage of dying, because he wanted to be paying attention when it happened. He was curious what it was like and didn't want to miss it. On the last day of his life, I told him to pay attention as he had instructed me, but he was unconscious. I doubt that he heard.



    Steve Jobs felt no discomfort or pain when he died, mainly because he was not conscious.



    I wish to feel myself slip away. Sad that it sounds like I won't have that opportunity.
  • Reply 63 of 66
    Thanks Panu, that really helps. I'm just glad it was peaceful. I hate death, and can remember how horrified i was as a child when it was explained to me that "its like you go to sleep, and you never wake up" also being taken to a funeral, and made to go up to the open casket as a boy didn't help, i was absolutely horrified.



    Thats why Panu's post made me feel a bit better, its good to know its possible to go out that peacefully. I've always said, "it's not being dead that's the problem - it's the dying part."



    Later on i made the choice that even though i wanted children, i would never subject them to death, so i never had any. I feel peace knowing my kids will never die, as they were never born to begin with. Some people have disagreed with my choice, but to each his own; it works for me.



    That is NOT to take away from people who have had children! - not at all - life can be wonderful, and joyous - but i was not willing to put them on that merry-go-round of living for 70-80 years not knowing when, or how they were going to die; and then suffering a possible horrible death. And yes, I'm glad that not everyone feels the way i do as we would never have had Steve Jobs.
  • Reply 64 of 66
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by EverNoticeThat View Post


    Thanks Panu, that really helps. I'm just glad it was peaceful. I hate death, and can remember how horrified i was as a child when it was explained to me that "its like you go to sleep, and you never wake up" also being taken to a funeral, and made to go up to the open casket as a boy didn't help, i was absolutely horrified.



    Thats why Panu's post made me feel a bit better, its good to know its possible to go out that peacefully. I've always said, "it's not being dead that's the problem - it's the dying part."



    Later on i made the choice that even though i wanted children, i would never subject them to death, so i never had any. I feel peace knowing my kids will never die, as they were never born to begin with. Some people have disagreed with my choice, but to each his own; it works for me.



    That is NOT to take away from people who have had children! - not at all - life can be wonderful, and joyous - but i was not willing to put them on that merry-go-round of living for 70-80 years not knowing when, or how they were going to die; and then suffering a possible horrible death. And yes, I'm glad that not everyone feels the way i do as we would never have had Steve Jobs.



    Death has always been a burden on my mind. First the whole idea that I will die (around 12) then in my early twenties the fact that I can die at any time for any reason. Being borderline nihilistic doesn't help either.



    I'm not so scared of being dead. Like you I fear dying. Slipping away. I wonder if there's panic. Silent and lonely trapped in a dying mind as you fight for a life you can no longer hold.



    The idea is terrifying. I try not to think about it. But sometimes at night when I lay to sleep I get scared of not waking up. Just going from a living breathing being to essentially nothing with no awareness of it's transition.



    Granted, logically, it's pointless to fear as being nothing won't feel like anything. But still. Fearful.
  • Reply 65 of 66
    macrulezmacrulez Posts: 2,455member
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  • Reply 66 of 66
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by parksgm View Post


    As I remember, the initial diagnosis was NOT metastatic pancreatic cancer, but a more rare form of pancreatic cancer that was amenable to resection; the very fact that it was resected means that it almost certainly had not metastasized. For that reason, a liver transplant was likely not contraidicated.



    the only reason he would have needed a liver transplant is because he had metastatic cancer that had taken over his liver (this was a long time after his original tumor resection). That is an easy diagnosis to make. However, if you have a liver with enough metastases to necessitate a liver transplant it is quite clear you have metastatic cancer and thus are not allowed to get a liver transplant. That's how the medical ethics work. So in fact, Steve Jobs did not deserve a new liver.
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