If the price of averting another Enron is the occasional 99p app, I'm ok with it. I find it pretty helpful.
Enron was caught without the regs. We had plenty of existing laws, just no oversight.
But congress cant show they are doing something by increasing oversight - so they pass more laws to show they are "doing" something
It all adds up. And a significant contributer to our current economy. Obamacare finally pushed a good friend over the edge - he closed his transportation company and about 30 people lost their jobs. He now consults as a sole proprietor and makes more. And people wonder why jobs are disappearing?
Europe has more regs than we do and a certain banker was able to singlehandedly flush billions. Yup, regulations will save us!
Just saw another idiot protestor on the news that is covering the DC protesters and she threw out the platitude "people over profits". That sounds nice, but if companies don't have profits how do they grow or make payroll. Seriously, economics classes should be mandatory then again you can't force comprehension any more than decency. Speaking of, another protestor complained about people "not taking care of each other enough" - hey buddy, you can't mandate common decency. Not sure what you expect congress to do. Pass another law probably
The coup de GRAS was the woman complaining about politicians being focused on getting re-elected! I love it! Why the heck does she think the founding fathers there were against professional politicians and pushed for citizen legislators? Then again she probably thinks the founding fathers were evil, privileged white men and therefore full of it
So much ignorance - it's times like these I'm amazed our species, letvalone this country, survives.
Yeah, they totally botched the 3.5" floppy, SIMMS, SCSI, networking, all in one computers, FireWire, USB, OpenGL, WebKit, etc.
Yup - their execution is constantly screwed up
I never said that. You did and you even sited failures like FireWire while trying to be snarky and sarcastic. \ The point I was making is that some of the moves they make ala facetime seem to go against their end goal...sometimes it seems as if it's deliberately to keep other vendors from trying to use their software.
You've successfully shown that cynicism and immorality exist, but not that regulation is a bad thing. That people get away with bad things despite regulation is testament to them being resolute in their badness, not that regulation as a concept is at fault (though individual regulations might be).
My wife and I only use Whatsapp and KakaoTalk nowadays. I even cancelled our AT&T texting plan and requested an sms block so we would not be charged for spam texts and texts that other people send. You know, the ones who refuse to use free apps like KakaoTalk to txt from their smartphones... That's how we communicate with friends and family here in the US and abroad, and we're glad the carriers are sucking a little less of our money every month
Does AT&T charge you for having this block on the account? I know my friend 4 years ago or so did this with Verizon and apparently it cost $5 a month.
I like both What's App and Kakao. I'm currently living in Korea and all my friends have Kakao so nice.
Also I have text+ which is free and it gives you a free US based phone number. All my friends that don't have a smart phone they use that to text me.
I for one, cancelled my text messaging plan when I ordered my iPhone 4S. When I activate it on Friday afternoon, I'll no longer be paying AT&T for something they have no right to be charging me for.
Note to AT&T: What is undermining your profits is your overpriced texting plans; not iMessage!
I have long refused to pay for texting; I simply choose not to use it. I only send if it is an extreme need. If a friend texts me, I will call them back. I will also ask them to call or email next time. I probably average about 2 texts a month.
My wife, on the other hand does text, mostly with her sister. She currently has a $5/200 plan. A few months ago, she complained that she can't text me to coordinate things, and we agreed that for $5 it would be worth it. However, AT&T was no longer offering this plan, and had a $10/1000 plan. This was not worth the price, so I continued to not line their pockets.
Now my wife has a 4S on pre-order. AT&T won't let her carry over her plan, the $10 plan is gone, and they are only offering only the $20/unlimited plan. Her decision is to not have a text plan, and stop using SMS. Her sister is on Android, so iMessage isn't a factor - it's down to cost of the service!
If AT&T still offered that $5 plan, they would be getting $10 from us.
Note: I am really looking forward to being able to use iMessage with my wife or friends with iOS.
2GB = 2048MB ÷ $25.00 = $0.0122 or 1.2¢ per 1MB data.
That math is rather moot compared to the 1/1000th of 'our' cost that is ATTs cost per message. They could cut the individual message down to say 5 cents each way and still make bank
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neves
i don't even understand the concept of unlimited nights and weekends
All this free nights, rollover, free to mobile phones shows how cheap providing the actual service is. Probably costs the $3-5 a month per phone, plus perhaps a penny or all the texts you send and receive and yet you are paying at least $40 just for voice.
That the costs to them are so cheap irks. Especially when they charge the same rates on contract as off. If we bring in a fully paid phone we shouldn't be asked to pay that $12-15 that was supposed to be device payoff.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwlaw99
I hear AOL, Yahoo, Google and others are already about to copy apple with "instant messengers" of their own. Apple needs to sue them quickly before someone steals their idea again.
Apple won't because they will use the same defense Apple would use. Internal prior art. All these companies have computer message apps and this is just natural growth.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Isidore
Americans pay to RECEIVE messages??? That is completely outrageous! Anything that challenges this sort of rip off must be a good thing!
Yep. We do. That said, I don't mind the notion of paying both ways, it's the amount. They could cut it to 5 cents rather than 20 and still make bank. They could cut unlimited plans to $10 and still make bank.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleZilla
Big difference if the latter. My boss has iOS 3 on his 3G and probably will for life.
You just need to make sure that his 3G has a terrible accident and has to be replaced. By now it is way off warranty and the geniuses will be your friend and push that it is financially a better option to pay $199 to get the latest phone or if he really likes the 3G style to get the free 3GS. Either way it will come with ios5,
A punk on a skateboard and $20 should cover it. Just don't pay it all upfront. And tell him it has go be totally destroyed
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody
Why isn't there an Android FaceTime app? Why didn't they integrate this into Lion *before* they release it on the phone? Why doesn't FaceTime run on 3G?
They put out that anyone could license to include FaceTime. No one bit. Apple should not be required to make versions for everyone else.
Who is to say that we won't get an iChat update In a week that does integrate imessages.
You can't FaceTime on a 3G/3GS cause there isn't a front camera.
Err, it's missing a key peice of hardware - the front facing camera perhaps? The 3GS doesn't have one either - but your right, forget pesky missing hardware - Apple are just jerks for their forced upgrade strategy
He's asking why Facetime doesn't work over 3G, i.e. on the 3G Network not the iPhone 3G.
Anything that makes cell carriers more generic is good. iMessage is a good move. I'm looking forward to the day when my iPhone will automatically switch to whichever carrier happens to have the strongest signal and fastest data speeds at the moment.
That would force carriers to compete on the quality of their service instead of by how well they can lock in their subscribers. But no, I'm not holding my breath.
AT&T now offer its subscribers two choices, a $20 per month unlimited text plan or a flat 20-cent fee per sent and received message. The carrier's previous plan of $10 per month for 1,000 text messages is no longer available.
There used to be a $5/mo 200 message plan too. I signed up for it last summer with my iPhone 4.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Orlando
SMS is more expensive per message sent but data plans costs a lot more per month so average phone bills are going up; I therefore doubt carriers are complaining that much.
What? Where do you pull this from? If you have an iPhone, you probably have a data plan already, so your marginal cost should be zero. You get so much more value from a data plan than you can ever get with an SMS plan.
I never said that. You did and you even sited failures like FireWire
FireWire might not be as ubiquitous as USB, but it's hardly a failure. Pick up all but some the most recent camcorders - they all have FireWire. USB was a failure until Apple picked it up. I languished for two years while being ignored by the PC industry until it had legs from the success of the iMac.
Name me ONE thing the PC industry has pushed and has changed the way we use computers. Heck, even Dell being a major proponent of DisplayPort long before Apple didn't help it's adoption. But Apple did - now you can find PC only ATI video cards with four and five mini-display (gasp!) ports on them.
Apple has been the tail wagging the industry dog for decades. Now with the iPod and iOS, they are becoming the dog. There was a reason Tim Cooked spoke several minutes about Mac sales at the event to announce the new iPhone and iOS.
Quote:
while trying to be snarky and sarcastic. \
I wasn't trying, I was...
Quote:
The point I was making is that some of the moves they make ala facetime seem to go against their end goal...
So now you know Apple's end goals? Care to share?
Quote:
sometimes it seems as if it's deliberately to keep other vendors from trying to use their software.
Or how about them trying to prevent competitors from benefiting from Apple technology for free?
Frankly, I now no longer see the need for FaceTime on other platforms. With the 3G, iPod Touch and iPad its pretty easy to get to FaceTime. And the experience will be consistent every time.
While it sounds trivial to just make FaceTime available on other platforms, it's not that simple. Ever tried to do video chatting with Skype? A total nghtmare compared to FaceTime.
When I use FaceTime with my friends and family, I don't have to worry about providing them technical support - or it even not working. I FaceTime them and if they answer it works every time.
That's what Apple is selling. Not just FaceTime, but the whole enchilada.
So no, I no longer think they need to bring FaceTime to other platforms (nor do I think they intend to - they talked about opening up AirPlay, not FaceTime). It should be a differentiator for them, and part of that is the bundling of the hardware along with the FaceTime software. It' the experience overall, not just an app.
You've successfully shown that cynicism and immorality exist, but not that regulation is a bad thing. That people get away with bad things despite regulation is testament to them being resolute in their badness, not that regulation as a concept is at fault (though individual regulations might be).
I think you need to divide between regulation and enforcement.
We don't need more laws. All more laws do are insert complexity and uncertainly. Complexity leads to hiding ulterior motives and further "badness" as you put it, and it makes sorting things out that much harder.
Uncertainty introduces doubt and caution and slows development and innovation. If the US started out with the complex accounting laws we now have we wouldn't be near the country we are today. We probably wouldn't even exist as a country.
We don't need more stinking laws! We need enforcement of what is on the books! Regulation and now government spending are crushing our economy. If Obama wants to foster job growth, try simplifying the operating environment for companies. Why is our tax code so complex that even dedicated professionals can't decipher and interpret it?
Could you decipher the US code? For the first 100 years of this country anyone with a reasonable education could. Now even the lawyers can't sort it out. That people don't see that as a huge problem just boggles my mind.
I guess ignorance really is bliss... talk about a weird security blanket!
Does AT&T charge you for having this block on the account?
Nope
Quote:
I know my friend 4 years ago or so did this with Verizon and apparently it cost $5 a month.
And people think AT&T is evil? Steve Jobs was the reality distortion field? I don't know how Verizon keeps getting away with their image like they do....
He's asking why Facetime doesn't work over 3G, i.e. on the 3G Network not the iPhone 3G.
Ah - darn phone model and wireless technology having the same name!
If that is the case the answer is simple: the carriers! Not because I think they are particularly evil - this time anyway. But there is a bit of legitimate practicality here: radio spectrum is not an unlimited resource.
Now, I think the carriers painted themselves into this corner with "unlimited data" and other such nonsense, but ultimately I can't say I blame them on the 3G ban of FaceTime. My internet gets slow at peak times of the day as it is.
It's doubly negative for Verizon - part of the reason their coverage is greater is their signal goes farther. Which also means they have less total towers and therefore less total aggregate bandwidth. LTE will put everyone on the same playing field, but for now Verizon got a freebie (and now Sprint) by AT&T taking the heat for no 3G FaceTime when they benefit from it more.
"Samsung and Google are also reportedly working on similar services that would allow Android users to communicate via free messages instead of pricier SMS texts. Meanwhile, Microsoft is said to be readying its own instant messaging system for the Windows Phone platform."
google/android had it for years with google voice. which is completely cross platform via actual mobile numbers.
Yup, I use Google Voice with my iPhone. The downsides are:
1) I need to give my friends a separate GV phone number from my actual phone number for texting only.
Still, if Apple really wanted this to catch on, they should have made an Android and a Blackberry app/client for launch as well. It really should be cross-platform, and Apple has a history of screwing up the adoption of new standards they develop in exactly this manner.
Apple makes their money from selling hardware.
If they provide a software solution for other platforms, they do not provide incentive for people to get on their platform. (Not to mention, they buy themselves quite a few headaches making sure their software works with other platforms that they have NO control over.)
I would wonder who was running things in Cupertino if they DID provide apps/clients for Android and Blackberry.
Comments
If the price of averting another Enron is the occasional 99p app, I'm ok with it. I find it pretty helpful.
Enron was caught without the regs. We had plenty of existing laws, just no oversight.
But congress cant show they are doing something by increasing oversight - so they pass more laws to show they are "doing" something
It all adds up. And a significant contributer to our current economy. Obamacare finally pushed a good friend over the edge - he closed his transportation company and about 30 people lost their jobs. He now consults as a sole proprietor and makes more. And people wonder why jobs are disappearing?
Europe has more regs than we do and a certain banker was able to singlehandedly flush billions. Yup, regulations will save us!
Just saw another idiot protestor on the news that is covering the DC protesters and she threw out the platitude "people over profits". That sounds nice, but if companies don't have profits how do they grow or make payroll. Seriously, economics classes should be mandatory
The coup de GRAS was the woman complaining about politicians being focused on getting re-elected! I love it! Why the heck does she think the founding fathers there were against professional politicians and pushed for citizen legislators? Then again she probably thinks the founding fathers were evil, privileged white men and therefore full of it
So much ignorance - it's times like these I'm amazed our species, letvalone this country, survives.
Yeah, they totally botched the 3.5" floppy, SIMMS, SCSI, networking, all in one computers, FireWire, USB, OpenGL, WebKit, etc.
Yup - their execution is constantly screwed up
I never said that. You did and you even sited failures like FireWire while trying to be snarky and sarcastic.
My wife and I only use Whatsapp and KakaoTalk nowadays. I even cancelled our AT&T texting plan and requested an sms block so we would not be charged for spam texts and texts that other people send. You know, the ones who refuse to use free apps like KakaoTalk to txt from their smartphones... That's how we communicate with friends and family here in the US and abroad, and we're glad the carriers are sucking a little less of our money every month
Does AT&T charge you for having this block on the account? I know my friend 4 years ago or so did this with Verizon and apparently it cost $5 a month.
I like both What's App and Kakao. I'm currently living in Korea and all my friends have Kakao so nice.
Also I have text+ which is free and it gives you a free US based phone number. All my friends that don't have a smart phone they use that to text me.
Thank you Apple!!
I have long refused to pay for texting; I simply choose not to use it. I only send if it is an extreme need. If a friend texts me, I will call them back. I will also ask them to call or email next time. I probably average about 2 texts a month.
My wife, on the other hand does text, mostly with her sister. She currently has a $5/200 plan. A few months ago, she complained that she can't text me to coordinate things, and we agreed that for $5 it would be worth it. However, AT&T was no longer offering this plan, and had a $10/1000 plan. This was not worth the price, so I continued to not line their pockets.
Now my wife has a 4S on pre-order. AT&T won't let her carry over her plan, the $10 plan is gone, and they are only offering only the $20/unlimited plan. Her decision is to not have a text plan, and stop using SMS. Her sister is on Android, so iMessage isn't a factor - it's down to cost of the service!
If AT&T still offered that $5 plan, they would be getting $10 from us.
Note: I am really looking forward to being able to use iMessage with my wife or friends with iOS.
2GB = 2048MB ÷ $25.00 = $0.0122 or 1.2¢ per 1MB data.
That math is rather moot compared to the 1/1000th of 'our' cost that is ATTs cost per message. They could cut the individual message down to say 5 cents each way and still make bank
i don't even understand the concept of unlimited nights and weekends
All this free nights, rollover, free to mobile phones shows how cheap providing the actual service is. Probably costs the $3-5 a month per phone, plus perhaps a penny or all the texts you send and receive and yet you are paying at least $40 just for voice.
That the costs to them are so cheap irks. Especially when they charge the same rates on contract as off. If we bring in a fully paid phone we shouldn't be asked to pay that $12-15 that was supposed to be device payoff.
I hear AOL, Yahoo, Google and others are already about to copy apple with "instant messengers" of their own. Apple needs to sue them quickly before someone steals their idea again.
Apple won't because they will use the same defense Apple would use. Internal prior art. All these companies have computer message apps and this is just natural growth.
Americans pay to RECEIVE messages??? That is completely outrageous! Anything that challenges this sort of rip off must be a good thing!
Yep. We do. That said, I don't mind the notion of paying both ways, it's the amount. They could cut it to 5 cents rather than 20 and still make bank. They could cut unlimited plans to $10 and still make bank.
Big difference if the latter. My boss has iOS 3 on his 3G and probably will for life.
You just need to make sure that his 3G has a terrible accident and has to be replaced. By now it is way off warranty and the geniuses will be your friend and push that it is financially a better option to pay $199 to get the latest phone or if he really likes the 3G style to get the free 3GS. Either way it will come with ios5,
A punk on a skateboard and $20 should cover it. Just don't pay it all upfront. And tell him it has go be totally destroyed
Why isn't there an Android FaceTime app? Why didn't they integrate this into Lion *before* they release it on the phone? Why doesn't FaceTime run on 3G?
They put out that anyone could license to include FaceTime. No one bit. Apple should not be required to make versions for everyone else.
Who is to say that we won't get an iChat update In a week that does integrate imessages.
You can't FaceTime on a 3G/3GS cause there isn't a front camera.
Err, it's missing a key peice of hardware - the front facing camera perhaps? The 3GS doesn't have one either - but your right, forget pesky missing hardware - Apple are just jerks for their forced upgrade strategy
He's asking why Facetime doesn't work over 3G, i.e. on the 3G Network not the iPhone 3G.
That would force carriers to compete on the quality of their service instead of by how well they can lock in their subscribers. But no, I'm not holding my breath.
He's asking why Facetime doesn't work over 3G, i.e. on the 3G Network not the iPhone 3G.
It will tomorrow.
AT&T now offer its subscribers two choices, a $20 per month unlimited text plan or a flat 20-cent fee per sent and received message. The carrier's previous plan of $10 per month for 1,000 text messages is no longer available.
There used to be a $5/mo 200 message plan too. I signed up for it last summer with my iPhone 4.
SMS is more expensive per message sent but data plans costs a lot more per month so average phone bills are going up; I therefore doubt carriers are complaining that much.
What? Where do you pull this from? If you have an iPhone, you probably have a data plan already, so your marginal cost should be zero. You get so much more value from a data plan than you can ever get with an SMS plan.
I never said that. You did and you even sited failures like FireWire
FireWire might not be as ubiquitous as USB, but it's hardly a failure. Pick up all but some the most recent camcorders - they all have FireWire. USB was a failure until Apple picked it up. I languished for two years while being ignored by the PC industry until it had legs from the success of the iMac.
Name me ONE thing the PC industry has pushed and has changed the way we use computers. Heck, even Dell being a major proponent of DisplayPort long before Apple didn't help it's adoption. But Apple did - now you can find PC only ATI video cards with four and five mini-display (gasp!) ports on them.
Apple has been the tail wagging the industry dog for decades. Now with the iPod and iOS, they are becoming the dog. There was a reason Tim Cooked spoke several minutes about Mac sales at the event to announce the new iPhone and iOS.
while trying to be snarky and sarcastic.
I wasn't trying, I was...
The point I was making is that some of the moves they make ala facetime seem to go against their end goal...
So now you know Apple's end goals? Care to share?
sometimes it seems as if it's deliberately to keep other vendors from trying to use their software.
Or how about them trying to prevent competitors from benefiting from Apple technology for free?
Frankly, I now no longer see the need for FaceTime on other platforms. With the 3G, iPod Touch and iPad its pretty easy to get to FaceTime. And the experience will be consistent every time.
While it sounds trivial to just make FaceTime available on other platforms, it's not that simple. Ever tried to do video chatting with Skype? A total nghtmare compared to FaceTime.
When I use FaceTime with my friends and family, I don't have to worry about providing them technical support - or it even not working. I FaceTime them and if they answer it works every time.
That's what Apple is selling. Not just FaceTime, but the whole enchilada.
So no, I no longer think they need to bring FaceTime to other platforms (nor do I think they intend to - they talked about opening up AirPlay, not FaceTime). It should be a differentiator for them, and part of that is the bundling of the hardware along with the FaceTime software. It' the experience overall, not just an app.
You've successfully shown that cynicism and immorality exist, but not that regulation is a bad thing. That people get away with bad things despite regulation is testament to them being resolute in their badness, not that regulation as a concept is at fault (though individual regulations might be).
I think you need to divide between regulation and enforcement.
We don't need more laws. All more laws do are insert complexity and uncertainly. Complexity leads to hiding ulterior motives and further "badness" as you put it, and it makes sorting things out that much harder.
Uncertainty introduces doubt and caution and slows development and innovation. If the US started out with the complex accounting laws we now have we wouldn't be near the country we are today. We probably wouldn't even exist as a country.
We don't need more stinking laws! We need enforcement of what is on the books! Regulation and now government spending are crushing our economy. If Obama wants to foster job growth, try simplifying the operating environment for companies. Why is our tax code so complex that even dedicated professionals can't decipher and interpret it?
Could you decipher the US code? For the first 100 years of this country anyone with a reasonable education could. Now even the lawyers can't sort it out. That people don't see that as a huge problem just boggles my mind.
I guess ignorance really is bliss... talk about a weird security blanket!
Does AT&T charge you for having this block on the account?
Nope
I know my friend 4 years ago or so did this with Verizon and apparently it cost $5 a month.
And people think AT&T is evil? Steve Jobs was the reality distortion field? I don't know how Verizon keeps getting away with their image like they do....
He's asking why Facetime doesn't work over 3G, i.e. on the 3G Network not the iPhone 3G.
Ah - darn phone model and wireless technology having the same name!
If that is the case the answer is simple: the carriers! Not because I think they are particularly evil - this time anyway. But there is a bit of legitimate practicality here: radio spectrum is not an unlimited resource.
Now, I think the carriers painted themselves into this corner with "unlimited data" and other such nonsense, but ultimately I can't say I blame them on the 3G ban of FaceTime. My internet gets slow at peak times of the day as it is.
It's doubly negative for Verizon - part of the reason their coverage is greater is their signal goes farther. Which also means they have less total towers and therefore less total aggregate bandwidth. LTE will put everyone on the same playing field, but for now Verizon got a freebie (and now Sprint) by AT&T taking the heat for no 3G FaceTime when they benefit from it more.
It will tomorrow.
Really? When did they announce FaceTime over 3G? I certainly don't remember seeing it in the video of the launch nor is it anywhere on Apple's site.
And the underlying bandwidth issues haven't changed with the 4S so there is no reason for them to to change it.
Would be interesting if true, but I don't expect it and would have thought it would be more prominently talked about.
Really? When did they announce FaceTime over 3G? I certainly don't remember seeing it in the video of the launch nor is it anywhere on Apple's site.
And the underlying bandwidth issues haven't changed with the 4S so there is no reason for them to to change it.
Would be interesting if true, but I don't expect it and would have thought it would be more prominently talked about.
WTH is with that. Jobs said that it's coming "next year" back in 2010 when he demoed the feature.
And I think there has been plenty of time to prepare FaceTime for the standards bodies.
"Samsung and Google are also reportedly working on similar services that would allow Android users to communicate via free messages instead of pricier SMS texts. Meanwhile, Microsoft is said to be readying its own instant messaging system for the Windows Phone platform."
google/android had it for years with google voice. which is completely cross platform via actual mobile numbers.
Yup, I use Google Voice with my iPhone. The downsides are:
1) I need to give my friends a separate GV phone number from my actual phone number for texting only.
2) I can't send MMS messages.
Whatsapp is free for every platform !!!!
It's not on every platform and is not free either.
Still, if Apple really wanted this to catch on, they should have made an Android and a Blackberry app/client for launch as well. It really should be cross-platform, and Apple has a history of screwing up the adoption of new standards they develop in exactly this manner.
Apple makes their money from selling hardware.
If they provide a software solution for other platforms, they do not provide incentive for people to get on their platform. (Not to mention, they buy themselves quite a few headaches making sure their software works with other platforms that they have NO control over.)
I would wonder who was running things in Cupertino if they DID provide apps/clients for Android and Blackberry.