So either all the virus writers are really, really stupid, really really lazy or - gasp - it's not as easy to spread malware on Mac OSX as it is on Windows.
Agreed. Besides, I had viruses on my old Mac IIci running System 7. Back when the Mac had far less marketshare (and when there were less people versed in the 'art' of writing malware). If there were hundreds of virus strains back when the platform had about 4% penetration, how come there are zero now that it's got much higher penetration?
Quote:
Originally Posted by krabbelen
I understood that Mac OS and iOS actually implemented things like Exchange Server really well. I was under the impression that general access therefore wasn't an issue.
Connectivity to Exchange seems to be fine. However it's the end-user tools that just don't have the functionality. Yes I can send and receive email, receive (and respond to and create) shared calendar events, but besides those basics, there's plenty of functionality that's missing.
So yes, without buying Outlook I can participate in an Exchange-server environment, but it won't be the best experience.
Quote:
Secondly, Apple has contributed to open networking standards, such as CUPS/Bonjour type stuff. Therefore, where Apple does in fact make an effort -- where they license something quite common, or where they adhere very well to open standards -- they do indeed "play very nicely" (if not superlatively).
The problem is that so many IT environments have bought into the Microsoft realm where standards do not exist. Microsoft will take cross-platform standards and 'embellish' them to the point where they no longer work outside of the Microsoft ecosystem (anyone remember what they did to Java before Sun successfully sued them?).
And all the Apple defenders who agree with those statements?
And?
Quote:
Why then, should those same Apple defenders criticize IT departments for trying to keep Macs out of their companies? Shouldn't those IT departments be commended for following Apple's vision and helping to keep Macs out of the enterprise?
Because many of the reasons IT departments have traditionally demanded control are evaporating with cloud-based and mult-OS networks?
The days of trying to draw "moats" around resources to be protected are fast ending. The strategies of old make little sense these days between application OS independence and virtualization (of OS's or individual applications).
Unfortunately that's not 'server-class' hardware. It's a desktop machine running a server operating system. For it to be server-class it would have to have redundant power supplies and network ports, and lights-out administration capabilities.
And all the Apple defenders who agree with those statements?
Why then, should those same Apple defenders criticize IT departments for trying to keep Macs out of their companies? Shouldn't those IT departments be commended for following Apple's vision and helping to keep Macs out of the enterprise?
Because, duh, many of these same Apple defenders are employees of companies with these idiot IT departments. They are subjected to bass-ackwards Windows all day long, AND the inanities of the IT departments and their medieval policies.
No, Apple doesn't need enterprise. But enterprise companies would do well to consider how they need happy, productive employees. How they need to look beyond today's bottom line and think about TCO, or think strategically about such things as how they can disrupt competitors who don't move forward strategically in IT areas. Every day new, small companies begin to run circles around the big old incumbents in various industries, because they are not enslaved by some of these navel-gazing IT policies.
What about: this IT policy/excuse:
"We need quotes from 3 different companies; Apple is "proprietary", so we can't consider Apple purchases."
Why then, should those same IT purchasers dictate MS Windows and Office time after time? Compaq, HP, Dell, Acer, Sony, who cares... they all run the same crap software from the one same company. How is that a choice?
No, what these Apple defenders are after is a choice. They are willing to purchase and use their own hardware and software, they are willing to take care of their own support.... why? to be more productive in the workplace.
To deny that, or to deny that there is any win-win to be gained here, well, that's just stupid and short-sighted. If IT can't work out a way to make it happen, they should be fired.
I'm the only one in my office of ~35 with a Mac. A 27" i7 iMac to be exact. Everybody is jealous.
But still, my biggest pet peeve before iCloud and now afterwards is email syncing. My email at work on my iMac, and at home on my iMac, mini, and MacBook air all sync fine. My iPad and iPhone sync fine. They do NOT sync with each other. It is maddening while trying to search for a sent email on a different device. If I had a .me account, great. I don't. And businesses have their own email addresses- so until they can sync something as easy as email... Who cares about a "business ecosystem".
Macs will enter the enterprise when people stop choosing proprietary, closed, network infrastructure technology which is near impossible for anyone but the company that created it to support well.
Since the Apple ecosystem is a walled garden, I'd guess that using Macs in enterprise works best when the whole company goes Apple. The "it just works" idea works as long as it's all under Apple control.
But it's probably quite a headache to integrate Macs in an unfriendly corporate IT environment, hence IT's reluctance. From Apple's perspective, it's like integrating your beautiful walled garden with the unruly jungle next door.
I'm the only one in my office of ~35 with a Mac. A 27" i7 iMac to be exact. Everybody is jealous.
But still, my biggest pet peeve before iCloud and now afterwards is email syncing. My email at work on my iMac, and at home on my iMac, mini, and MacBook air all sync fine. My iPad and iPhone sync fine. They do NOT sync with each other. It is maddening while trying to search for a sent email on a different device. If I had a .me account, great. I don't. And businesses have their own email addresses- so until they can sync something as easy as email... Who cares about a "business ecosystem".
Oh, I just double-checked my mail accounts on my devices -- I am vaguely aware that I once had an issue like yours (sent mail was only showing on the device or Mac that that particular message was actually sent from).
Works fine. I can see Sent messages sent on other devices and Macs. Have you checked your preferences for the IMAP mail account? -- under the "Mailbox Behaviours" tab, check that the checkbox for Sent is check marked to "Store sent messages on the server."
Since the Apple ecosystem is a walled garden, I'd guess that using Macs in enterprise works best when the whole company goes Apple. The "it just works" idea works as long as it's all under Apple control.
But it's probably quite a headache to integrate Macs in an unfriendly corporate IT environment, hence IT's reluctance. From Apple's perspective, it's like integrating your beautiful walled garden with the unruly jungle next door.
Well, yes it's a headache...
It's a headache for the Mac user precisely because IT is unfriendly, nay, downright hostile.
It's a headache for the IT support personnel, because they know that, once a tipping point has been reached, they will be out of jobs.
But, as for getting the job done, no, no worse a headache than normal. Despite the headaches arising from the hostile environment and IT police harassment, there is plenty of sunshine in job satisfaction, productivity level, and things that just work, that you will want to sing anyway.
Jungle or zen garden, Mac users can adapt; they are a guerrilla workforce at heart. It's the jungle inhabitants that will fail to adapt to a changing world and die. They need to climb down out of their trees.
Quote:
Originally Posted by am8449
The "it just works" idea works as long as it's all under Apple control.
Not really. I have co-workers who mail me Word docs and ask me to "do some magic" on them. I don't have Office. I open them in Pages (20-dollars), export it to Word and send it to the other co-worker that needed it in the first place... but they couldn't open it because they had conflicting versions of Office or Windows, or whatever the inevitable, life-sucking issue is this week (yawn).
It has been blindingly obvious since the Mac was released in 1985 that IT departments have been pro-Microsoft and anti-Apple just to protect their budgets, head counts and skill base. CEO's have been conned by these technological dinosaurs who still believe that 'users' are ignorant fools who can't do anything without one of their support staff standing over their shoulders and keeping their PCs working and malware free. It is nothing short of a scandal which has allowed Microsoft and cyber criminals to prosper, while driving many PC users to distraction with cheap and substandard hardware and software.
It is high time that employees in all companies insist that they be allowed to use Macs at work if they wish, and that IT departments are instructed to instal Mac-compatible infrastructure and train their staff to support them in the rare occasions that they are needed. The result will not only be cost savings and better security for the business, but reduced employee frustration with crappy business tools.
Not sure what Active Directory is, but there's Exchange support built into OS X.
That's the idea, yeah. Virtualization breeds terrible experiences.
Also, there's a Mac Pro available.
They have for years? Try it.
No, they made a clear point that no one was buying them.
Shouldn't you ask Microsoft since Apple has nothing to do with that?
Dude- there are IT guys discussing business aspects. Everything is different and it's apparent you don't deal with large scale business- you don't even know what Active directory is. I know you think you know everything about everything, but guess what- you don't. So please stop talking just to try to prove a point that didn't exist. It's annoying.
I know you think you know everything about everything
I'd love to know why you're so upset about someone trying to learn about server infrastructure and the needs of the market, but I don't really care that much.
Quote:
So please stop talking just to try to prove a point that didn't exist.
You can virtualize OS X Server. He didn't know that. Boom, it helped a little.
Oh, I just double-checked my mail accounts on my devices -- I am vaguely aware that I once had an issue like yours (sent mail was only showing on the device or Mac that that particular message was actually sent from).
Works fine. I can see Sent messages sent on other devices and Macs. Have you checked your preferences for the IMAP mail account? -- under the "Mailbox Behaviours" tab, check that the checkbox for Sent is check marked to "Store sent messages on the server."
I'd love to know why you're so upset about someone trying to learn about server infrastructure and the needs of the market, but I don't really care that much.
You can virtualize OS X Server. He didn't know that. Boom, it helped a little.
Not that I should respond to this, but I will. Your philosophy- if it isn't apple, it's wrong. If it is apple, it's the only way.
Yes, OS X Server comes with Netboot/NetInstall that allows imaging. However I find that DeployStudio can be a bit more fine tuned.
What about clients?
You buy 1000 mbp's and have image them for users in a corporate setting with software, etc. and get rid of garage band and other software. How do you do it?
Took my pc to IT in July for yet another repair. Used my research grant funded MBP to access corporate system via Citrix. More than 3 months later and I never have been back to pick up the pc.
Your philosophy- if it isn't apple, it's wrong. If it is apple, it's the only way.
Please tell me where I'm wrong.
On a fundamental level. I'd ask you to just go back and try to explain where you're getting that nonsense, but I don't really care, and I'm not sure you'd do a very good job of it.
Anybody ever try explaining to a iPhone-with-Windows user all the things you can do between iOS and Mac OS X.
Me: "Oh yeah, I can sync all my calendars, emails, practically everything to my iPhone with little to no effort. Mail app is like email from the gods. Also, I can do practically anything with a PDF. And the apps you can use with iCal and everything else are so incredibly useful."
Windows user: why would I want to sync with my desktop when corporate sync through the microsoft exchange server; with little to no effort.
Comments
Uh, anywhere that still sells them? It's part of the Server EULA. It's completely allowed by Apple. JUST for Server, though. Not client.
Only if virtualized on Apple hardware - which is pretty superfluous since Apple doesn't sell server class hardware any more
That's his (very valid) point.
So either all the virus writers are really, really stupid, really really lazy or - gasp - it's not as easy to spread malware on Mac OSX as it is on Windows.
Agreed. Besides, I had viruses on my old Mac IIci running System 7. Back when the Mac had far less marketshare (and when there were less people versed in the 'art' of writing malware). If there were hundreds of virus strains back when the platform had about 4% penetration, how come there are zero now that it's got much higher penetration?
I understood that Mac OS and iOS actually implemented things like Exchange Server really well. I was under the impression that general access therefore wasn't an issue.
Connectivity to Exchange seems to be fine. However it's the end-user tools that just don't have the functionality. Yes I can send and receive email, receive (and respond to and create) shared calendar events, but besides those basics, there's plenty of functionality that's missing.
So yes, without buying Outlook I can participate in an Exchange-server environment, but it won't be the best experience.
Secondly, Apple has contributed to open networking standards, such as CUPS/Bonjour type stuff. Therefore, where Apple does in fact make an effort -- where they license something quite common, or where they adhere very well to open standards -- they do indeed "play very nicely" (if not superlatively).
The problem is that so many IT environments have bought into the Microsoft realm where standards do not exist. Microsoft will take cross-platform standards and 'embellish' them to the point where they no longer work outside of the Microsoft ecosystem (anyone remember what they did to Java before Sun successfully sued them?).
Anyway -I certainly didn't say they are exclusively Mac -they will have to have real Windows machines to develop iTunes etc.
Quoting you earlier in your same post:
Macs run Windows too...
If you were including Mac's as a "real Windows machine" then my critique is withdrawn...
Only if virtualized on Apple hardware
OH, really?
which is pretty superfluous since Apple doesn't sell server class hardware any more
Mac Pro Server?
What about:
"Apple doesn't care about enterprise"
"Apple doesn't need enterprise"
"Apple should avoid enterprise"
And all the Apple defenders who agree with those statements?
And?
Why then, should those same Apple defenders criticize IT departments for trying to keep Macs out of their companies? Shouldn't those IT departments be commended for following Apple's vision and helping to keep Macs out of the enterprise?
Because many of the reasons IT departments have traditionally demanded control are evaporating with cloud-based and mult-OS networks?
The days of trying to draw "moats" around resources to be protected are fast ending. The strategies of old make little sense these days between application OS independence and virtualization (of OS's or individual applications).
Mac Pro Server?
Unfortunately that's not 'server-class' hardware. It's a desktop machine running a server operating system. For it to be server-class it would have to have redundant power supplies and network ports, and lights-out administration capabilities.
What about:
"Apple doesn't care about enterprise"
"Apple doesn't need enterprise"
"Apple should avoid enterprise"
And all the Apple defenders who agree with those statements?
Why then, should those same Apple defenders criticize IT departments for trying to keep Macs out of their companies? Shouldn't those IT departments be commended for following Apple's vision and helping to keep Macs out of the enterprise?
Because, duh, many of these same Apple defenders are employees of companies with these idiot IT departments. They are subjected to bass-ackwards Windows all day long, AND the inanities of the IT departments and their medieval policies.
No, Apple doesn't need enterprise. But enterprise companies would do well to consider how they need happy, productive employees. How they need to look beyond today's bottom line and think about TCO, or think strategically about such things as how they can disrupt competitors who don't move forward strategically in IT areas. Every day new, small companies begin to run circles around the big old incumbents in various industries, because they are not enslaved by some of these navel-gazing IT policies.
What about: this IT policy/excuse:
"We need quotes from 3 different companies; Apple is "proprietary", so we can't consider Apple purchases."
Why then, should those same IT purchasers dictate MS Windows and Office time after time? Compaq, HP, Dell, Acer, Sony, who cares... they all run the same crap software from the one same company. How is that a choice?
No, what these Apple defenders are after is a choice. They are willing to purchase and use their own hardware and software, they are willing to take care of their own support.... why? to be more productive in the workplace.
To deny that, or to deny that there is any win-win to be gained here, well, that's just stupid and short-sighted. If IT can't work out a way to make it happen, they should be fired.
But still, my biggest pet peeve before iCloud and now afterwards is email syncing. My email at work on my iMac, and at home on my iMac, mini, and MacBook air all sync fine. My iPad and iPhone sync fine. They do NOT sync with each other. It is maddening while trying to search for a sent email on a different device. If I had a .me account, great. I don't. And businesses have their own email addresses- so until they can sync something as easy as email... Who cares about a "business ecosystem".
Macs will enter the enterprise when people stop choosing proprietary, closed, network infrastructure technology which is near impossible for anyone but the company that created it to support well.
Since the Apple ecosystem is a walled garden, I'd guess that using Macs in enterprise works best when the whole company goes Apple. The "it just works" idea works as long as it's all under Apple control.
But it's probably quite a headache to integrate Macs in an unfriendly corporate IT environment, hence IT's reluctance. From Apple's perspective, it's like integrating your beautiful walled garden with the unruly jungle next door.
I'm the only one in my office of ~35 with a Mac. A 27" i7 iMac to be exact. Everybody is jealous.
But still, my biggest pet peeve before iCloud and now afterwards is email syncing. My email at work on my iMac, and at home on my iMac, mini, and MacBook air all sync fine. My iPad and iPhone sync fine. They do NOT sync with each other. It is maddening while trying to search for a sent email on a different device. If I had a .me account, great. I don't. And businesses have their own email addresses- so until they can sync something as easy as email... Who cares about a "business ecosystem".
Oh, I just double-checked my mail accounts on my devices -- I am vaguely aware that I once had an issue like yours (sent mail was only showing on the device or Mac that that particular message was actually sent from).
Works fine. I can see Sent messages sent on other devices and Macs. Have you checked your preferences for the IMAP mail account? -- under the "Mailbox Behaviours" tab, check that the checkbox for Sent is check marked to "Store sent messages on the server."
Since the Apple ecosystem is a walled garden, I'd guess that using Macs in enterprise works best when the whole company goes Apple. The "it just works" idea works as long as it's all under Apple control.
But it's probably quite a headache to integrate Macs in an unfriendly corporate IT environment, hence IT's reluctance. From Apple's perspective, it's like integrating your beautiful walled garden with the unruly jungle next door.
Well, yes it's a headache...
It's a headache for the Mac user precisely because IT is unfriendly, nay, downright hostile.
It's a headache for the IT support personnel, because they know that, once a tipping point has been reached, they will be out of jobs.
But, as for getting the job done, no, no worse a headache than normal. Despite the headaches arising from the hostile environment and IT police harassment, there is plenty of sunshine in job satisfaction, productivity level, and things that just work, that you will want to sing anyway.
Jungle or zen garden, Mac users can adapt; they are a guerrilla workforce at heart. It's the jungle inhabitants that will fail to adapt to a changing world and die. They need to climb down out of their trees.
The "it just works" idea works as long as it's all under Apple control.
Not really. I have co-workers who mail me Word docs and ask me to "do some magic" on them. I don't have Office. I open them in Pages (20-dollars), export it to Word and send it to the other co-worker that needed it in the first place... but they couldn't open it because they had conflicting versions of Office or Windows, or whatever the inevitable, life-sucking issue is this week (yawn).
It is high time that employees in all companies insist that they be allowed to use Macs at work if they wish, and that IT departments are instructed to instal Mac-compatible infrastructure and train their staff to support them in the rare occasions that they are needed. The result will not only be cost savings and better security for the business, but reduced employee frustration with crappy business tools.
Not sure what Active Directory is, but there's Exchange support built into OS X.
That's the idea, yeah. Virtualization breeds terrible experiences.
Also, there's a Mac Pro available.
They have for years?
No, they made a clear point that no one was buying them.
Shouldn't you ask Microsoft since Apple has nothing to do with that?
Dude- there are IT guys discussing business aspects. Everything is different and it's apparent you don't deal with large scale business- you don't even know what Active directory is. I know you think you know everything about everything, but guess what- you don't. So please stop talking just to try to prove a point that didn't exist. It's annoying.
I know you think you know everything about everything
I'd love to know why you're so upset about someone trying to learn about server infrastructure and the needs of the market, but I don't really care that much.
So please stop talking just to try to prove a point that didn't exist.
You can virtualize OS X Server. He didn't know that. Boom, it helped a little.
Oh, I just double-checked my mail accounts on my devices -- I am vaguely aware that I once had an issue like yours (sent mail was only showing on the device or Mac that that particular message was actually sent from).
Works fine. I can see Sent messages sent on other devices and Macs. Have you checked your preferences for the IMAP mail account? -- under the "Mailbox Behaviours" tab, check that the checkbox for Sent is check marked to "Store sent messages on the server."
Brilliant! I just need to be smarter.
I'd love to know why you're so upset about someone trying to learn about server infrastructure and the needs of the market, but I don't really care that much.
You can virtualize OS X Server. He didn't know that. Boom, it helped a little.
Not that I should respond to this, but I will. Your philosophy- if it isn't apple, it's wrong. If it is apple, it's the only way.
Please tell me where I'm wrong.
@al_bundy
Yes, OS X Server comes with Netboot/NetInstall that allows imaging. However I find that DeployStudio can be a bit more fine tuned.
What about clients?
You buy 1000 mbp's and have image them for users in a corporate setting with software, etc. and get rid of garage band and other software. How do you do it?
Your philosophy- if it isn't apple, it's wrong. If it is apple, it's the only way.
Please tell me where I'm wrong.
On a fundamental level. I'd ask you to just go back and try to explain where you're getting that nonsense, but I don't really care, and I'm not sure you'd do a very good job of it.
Apple is not infallible. Not by a long shot.
Anybody ever try explaining to a iPhone-with-Windows user all the things you can do between iOS and Mac OS X.
Me: "Oh yeah, I can sync all my calendars, emails, practically everything to my iPhone with little to no effort. Mail app is like email from the gods. Also, I can do practically anything with a PDF. And the apps you can use with iCal and everything else are so incredibly useful."
Windows user: why would I want to sync with my desktop when corporate sync through the microsoft exchange server; with little to no effort.