If you've got the cash get yourself an AlienWare system. They use top quality components that you and I would go out and buy (not OEM stripped down versions) and they have the coolest color cases (with HUGE matching monitors as well as matching performance keyboards and mice).
You can configure ANYTHING you want including the power supply. There are many choices and they use nothing but the best (latest and greatest) cutting edge name brand (non OEM) components. The inside of the box is just as meticulous and well put together as the outside. Wires are lined up and gathered neatly and the box can house up to 6 (quiet) fans to keep the system at a normal temperature delivering ultimate performance.
Above all that, since it's not a Dell, HP, Compaq, etc. it's totally upgradeable as if you put it together yourself.
AlienWare systems are well respected PC's with high end components that you would build yourself. The only difference is, they are building it for you and they use high end magnetic paint (that of a car finish) for the case, monitor, keyboard and mouse so that they all match the color that you choose. Oh yeah, 24/7 tech support with on-site service.
However, this is not a cheap PC. If well configured, this is truly a super computer with about a $4300 price tag (yet, ironically about $1,000 less than Apple's 'Super Computer' which has nearly half the specs).
Here is a pic and a configuration I would choose for my next PC. Of course, since you just want it for gaming and not a full time computer, this is way too much for you - I am just giving an example of what a cool and powerful monster PC is:
Remember, your system will garaunteed not boot perfectly on your first try. Did mine? No...I pressed the wrong damn power button. Then it didn't work because (I think) my video card was dead. So I RMAed it to NewEgg, and a new one should come this week.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Did you buy that Chieftech case with the 420W power supply from newegg? One of my friends bought that case and we couldn't get his system (1800+) to boot for anything until we replaced the power supply with an Antec. If your new video card doesn't do the trick I'd definately look into that power supply.
Yep, that's the one. However, I'm pretty sure the PSU is fine because the fans work and I get the correct POST code (FF) that means the mobo is working. So if everything is peachy, and I know the monitor works, it's gotta be between the mobo-->monitor. So either I've got a fried AGP slot or a bum video card.
Overclock that sucker. That new Pentium, I've heard of people overclocking it to 2.5 GHz! As long as you don't care so much about price, you might consider buying a bitchin' cooling system for your PC, so you can overclock the Pentium as much as possible.
Overclocking is where it's at. If you're not going to overclock, then just buy a console.
Don't go overboard on pricewatch. In general, you'll save on shipping getting your stuff from as few separate orders as possible.
[quote]Heatsink? I got the Alpha PAL8045. It's the best damn Socket A HS out there IMO. Something like $35, and there's a nice little phamplet to explain how you mount it, comes with all the screws, etc. Highly recommended.<hr></blockquote>
To me, the Swiftech is still tops. The CoolerMaster witht he heatpipe is pretty nifty too.
[quote]Fans? I outfitted my case with 4 Panaflo fans. They're made by Panasonic and push a decent amount of air for the noise they make. They are pretty quiet. I also got one for the heatsink. The Alpha will take any standard 80MM fan, Fans will come in 60MM, 80MM, 92MM, and 120MM sizes in diameter. There are smaller ones etc. for graphics cards and stuff, but those are the most common sizes. A run down on fan makers (you will soon realize how important fans are):
Delta: Incredibly loud, but push incredible amounts of air. Make a high pitched whine that has been known to drive people insane.
Sunon: Push good amount of air, but very loud. Not as loud as Delta though.
Panaflo: A good blend of loudness/airflow.
Sanyo: Kind of the midrange, average...I'm not really sure though, I haven't heard much.
Papst: Very quiet, push a respectable amount of air, but are quite expensive.<hr></blockquote>
Generally, I only go with Panaflo if I use fans over 92 mm in diameter. Their 80 mm fans just don't push a lot of air, and if You're going to use 4 80 mm fans, you might as well find a case that accepts 92 or 120 mm fans.
[quote]HD: Go with IDE, for sure! SCSI is a pain in the ass for us n00b PC builders. Stay away from IBM, except for maybe the 120GXP series...they can't seem to make anything without crapping it up these days. Maxtor, Western Digital, and Seagate (wait, do they even make IDE drives?) are all good choices. I'd go Maxtor?supposedly the fastest. Go with a 7200RPM, and then decide on the size. I got a 40GB 7200RPM Maxtor 740DX. Price? $85.<hr></blockquote>
IBM has ludicrous specs on the 120GXPs, like 11 maximum continuous power-on hours a day...333 hours a month
Personally, I'd go with Seagate's Barracuda ATA IV HDDs.
[quote]Case: Okay, this is tough. Sure, a case is a case, but you want a blend of cooling, appearance, and price. You also want a good power supply. Here's what I'd get:
The Antec SX1040B. It's black, has a solid 400W Antec PSU, and is a very very good case. I have basically a clone with a generic 420W PSU (hey, it seems to work). Has room for 4 80MM fans, comes with 2. 6 3.5" bays, 4 full size external bays.<hr></blockquote>
It's not really fair to call your case a clone. Antec just buys OEM cases from Chenming or Uneec...the same source of your case probably.
<strong>Yep, that's the one. However, I'm pretty sure the PSU is fine because the fans work and I get the correct POST code (FF) that means the mobo is working. So if everything is peachy, and I know the monitor works, it's gotta be between the mobo-->monitor. So either I've got a fried AGP slot or a bum video card.
I hope it's the video card *knock on wood*.</strong><hr></blockquote>
The fans spun on this system too, but the power was not clean enough to boot the computer. Also be aware that they usually ship that power supply set to 220V instead of 110V.
[quote]Personally, I'd go with Seagate's Barracuda ATA IV HDDs.
<hr></blockquote>
Seagate Barracuda IV is nice if you want a very quiet cool running drive. But it's slow compared to it's competitors. I second the Maxtor D740X series. Or if you have the cash check out the Western Digtal 1200JB series, has 8MB of cache. <a href="http://www.storagereview.com"; target="_blank">www.storagereview.com</a> in the best place for reading about drive performance and recomendations.
I figure I'll ask in here instead of making a new thread.
Somebody at school contracted me to upgrade his computer so he can have the most powerful PC he possibly can. He's running Cubase etc and doing 16 racks, so I figure I would get him on the Athlon MP wagon.
Not sure how high he's willing to, I told him 500 should do it. basically I figure get him a new processor and maybe mobo instead of having him buy a whole new PC. He has what looks to be an ok case, but I'm not sure of a few things.
First, would you agree that it wouldnt be worthwhile to have say an Athlon XP 2100+ on his mobo? It is an ASUS CUV4X-E & has 133 MHz FSB, AGP Pro/4x, and Socket 370 Motherboard.
I thought that he should get dual processors if he wanted to have a real fast computer for his audio apps, so that would require getting a new mobo.
What he needs:
Athlon MP
DDR mobo
1 GB DDR RAM
Im thinking that he should get an Athlon MP 2000 or 1900. What is the best Dual Athlon mobo I can get and how much do they run? Are there any combos where you can get the dual Athlons & mobo together?
What do you think the best bet would be? A single Athlon Xp2100+ w/ DDR333 mobo, or something like an Athlon MP 1800, 1900?
Remember the budget being $500. He will spend what he has to (go over that 500) if he has to to get a bitchin system.
He wants to do it like right away (he was going to put down the money today) but Im a little wary of things like Thouroughbred and faster DDR. Even AGP 3.0.
[quote]To me, the Swiftech is still tops. The CoolerMaster witht he heatpipe is pretty nifty too.<hr></blockquote>
I don't know about the CoolerMaster, but the Swiftech MC462 (if that's the one you had in mind...) is quite a bit more expensive than the PAL8045, plus doesn't seem to cool quite as well.
[quote]Generally, I only go with Panaflo if I use fans over 92 mm in diameter. Their 80 mm fans just don't push a lot of air, and if You're going to use 4 80 mm fans, you might as well find a case that accepts 92 or 120 mm fans.<hr></blockquote>
Maybe so, but you gotta factor in price. Panaflo L1A 80mm are about $3 a pop at BGMicro. I don't know the link offhand, but you can find it at Ars.
[quote]It's not really fair to call your case a clone. Antec just buys OEM cases from Chenming or Uneec...the same source of your case probably.<hr></blockquote>
I'm starting to think you're a Uneec employee or something...that really seems to annoy you, doesn't it?
[quote]The fans spun on this system too, but the power was not clean enough to boot the computer. Also be aware that they usually ship that power supply set to 220V instead of 110V.<hr></blockquote>
Maybe I'll check it out. I only paid an extra $5 for a 420W PSU, so I won't feel that bad if I have to shell out another $40 for a nice Antec (yeah ok Eugene, I know, it's just a rebadged PSU from Heorichi or whatever) or Sparkle...I'm thinking 340-370W should do the job. I'm gonna check to make sure it isn't the graphics card first though. NewEgg has a new one shipped already (they're so nice... ). I sure as hell hope mine isn't set to 220V...wouldn't that seriously fsck things up? I didn't see any smoke, and I've taken the HSF off and it looks just dandy.
[quote]Im thinking that he should get an Athlon MP 2000 or 1900. What is the best Dual Athlon mobo I can get and how much do they run? Are there any combos where you can get the dual Athlons & mobo together?
What do you think the best bet would be? A single Athlon Xp2100+ w/ DDR333 mobo, or something like an Athlon MP 1800, 1900?
<hr></blockquote>
Best dual board for your budget right now would be the Tyan Tiger MP (note: not MPX). There is a newer dual chipset called the 760MPX out now but currently inserting any PCI cards into the motherboard will disable the ability to use USB ports. Therefore it is recommended to purchase the slightly older 760MP version. It runs between $199-$220 in price. You could get Dual Athlon MPs but you will pay a price premium. For 1800's you are talking close to $200 per processor.
For about half the price you could buy 2 AthlonXP 1800+ and use them in the motherboard. They are not "certified" for dual operation but they work 99.5% of the time. Certification costs you money. I looked on a forum and they claim the newest version of Cubase is multi processor aware so I would go with dual processors then. Also make sure he has a fast hard drive, as that can be a bottleneck in most high end systems today. I'd imagine for audio work he already has a high end soundcard?
On Tyan's site it states, "The Tiger MP S2460 accepts a standard ATX-style power supply . However, the P/S must be able to supply a minimum of 30A on the 5-volt line. Many 300+ watt power supplies on the market today are capable of this output." So a new power supply may be necessary. Again I'll recommend Enermax, Antec, and Sparkle as good brands.
[quote]I sure as hell hope mine isn't set to 220V...wouldn't that seriously fsck things up? <hr></blockquote>
I've started up 2 systems by accident at 220 with no lasting damage/problems. I believe the motherboard is smart enough to sense the wrong voltage and doesn't allow power to distribute to critical devices like the CPU and memory.
[quote]I don't know about the CoolerMaster, but the Swiftech MC462 (if that's the one you had in mind...) is quite a bit more expensive than the PAL8045, plus doesn't seem to cool quite as well.
<hr></blockquote>
The new Thermalright AX-7 is my personal favorite heatsink at the moment. Great cooling with a Panaflo 80mm and it won't drive you insane like the Delta fans. And because the base is slightly smaller than 80x80mm like the PAL8045 it will fit on most every motherboard. And since it uses traditional clipping mechanism motherboard removal is not necessary to install and it works on dual Athlon motherboards.
[quote]The new Thermalright AX-7 is my personal favorite heatsink at the moment.<hr></blockquote>
Ah, I forgot to mention that. I've heard great things about it. Considering AMD is going to remove to mobo mounting holes from future designs (or at least is planning on it), the AX7 might be the PAL8045 successor. The old SK6 was good too, but it only accepted 60MM fans (you could use a converter though, but...meh).
On a side note for gaming, I just recieved my Razer Boomslang 2000 mouse in the mail today (got it on ars for $15!) and it works fantastically. Even though I haven't fiddled with it much to getting it to work with my G4, it should serve me well on the AMD box.
I was thinking the Tyan. There's also something called the Tyan Dual Thunder K7? What is that like? What is not being MPX going to do (is it that important?)?
I think your prices are waaaaaayyy too high. The Tyan Dual Thunder K7 was $117.
Here are the prices I found for Athlon MP:
Athlon MP 2000- $267
Athlon MP 1900- $178
Athlon MP 1800- $167
I'd think it would best to go w/Athlon MP 1800. Do you know if any mobos are DDR333 (or higher) that support the Athlon MP? I would rather get the Athlon MP, as it is acually cheaper contrary to what you stated. Example:
Athlon XP 1800- $107
Athlom MP 1800- $167
He has the newest version of Cubase and I was thinking it would be MP-aware and that would give him more performance. He said he had a 60 GB hard drive, so I think it's probably ok.
I noticed the SiS 735 chipset very cheap, and it supports both the Athlon XP & MP, and is 266FSB. Is this a descent one? I saw it for $54.
I was thinking the Tyan. There's also something called the Tyan Dual Thunder K7? What is that like?
<hr></blockquote>
Tyan Thunder is more expensive version of dual Athlon board intended for servers and 1U rackmounted systems, has onboard dual 3COM 10/100 ethernet and Ultra160 SCSI. It's priced from $300-$450 depending on if you get it with the SCSI or not.
[quote]
What is not being MPX going to do (is it that important?)?
<hr></blockquote>
MPX supports 64bit/66MHz PCI slots, doubtful you'll ever need them unless you have a very high end RAID card or something similar. Standard MP (which includes ThunderK7) has 64bit/33MHz and 32bit/33MHz slots.
[quote]
I think your prices are waaaaaayyy too high. The Tyan Dual Thunder K7 was $117.
<hr></blockquote>
Your price is incorrect or you are looking at the price for something else. Trust me you will not find the Thunder K7 for less than $300.
[quote]
Do you know if any mobos are DDR333 (or higher) that support the Athlon MP? <hr></blockquote>
No there are not but the performance advantage of DDR333 over DDR266 is neglible to nonexistant due to the Athlon processor being bottlnecked by its 266MHz front side bus speed.
[quote]
I would rather get the Athlon MP, as it is acually cheaper contrary to what you stated. Example:
Athlon XP 1800- $107
Athlom MP 1800- $167
<hr></blockquote>
Please reread what you just wrote and get back to me on that one, put down the pipe son .
[quote]
I noticed the SiS 735 chipset very cheap, and it supports both the Athlon XP & MP, and is 266FSB. Is this a descent one? I saw it for $54.
<hr></blockquote>
The SiS 735 chipset is a fair one, but only supports a single processor. I would not recommend the motherboard you are talking about ECS K7S5A (the $54 one) for your friend. It is very picky about components and has given many much more technical folk plenty of headaches. As a side note any chipset that supports AthlonXP will support AthlonMP processors. They are identical in nearly every regard except for pricing. Again if he is looking to stay under $500 I would stick with AthlonXP processors even if he intends to go dual.
[quote]
Also, he wants onboard Firewire.<hr></blockquote>
Not available on any of the dual systems. Firewire PCI cards are cheap and there are lots of them available for the PC, just buy one.
Ohhhh man I'm a f*ckin dumbass lmao.....I thought that the Athlon MP meant it was dual processors.....I didnt realize you had to buy 2 of them to get a dual processor system....dayyyyyyummn shows how much I know about PCs. You are probably right then, I should just tell him single processor for his budget....unless he really wants those duals.
Ok here's a question. Do you know if 2 Athlon XP processors can work together on the Tyan Tiger MP? I guess that would be a little better IF it would work without problems. Or would you say Athlon XP 2100 w/DDR 333 mobo is better than a Athlon MP 1500 system? He does use Cubase and other audio apps that would be good with dualies.
Comments
The SiS 645 is a Pentium 4 chipset. Other than that, your advice is fine.
(had to say it...)
You can configure ANYTHING you want including the power supply. There are many choices and they use nothing but the best (latest and greatest) cutting edge name brand (non OEM) components. The inside of the box is just as meticulous and well put together as the outside. Wires are lined up and gathered neatly and the box can house up to 6 (quiet) fans to keep the system at a normal temperature delivering ultimate performance.
Above all that, since it's not a Dell, HP, Compaq, etc. it's totally upgradeable as if you put it together yourself.
AlienWare systems are well respected PC's with high end components that you would build yourself. The only difference is, they are building it for you and they use high end magnetic paint (that of a car finish) for the case, monitor, keyboard and mouse so that they all match the color that you choose. Oh yeah, 24/7 tech support with on-site service.
However, this is not a cheap PC. If well configured, this is truly a super computer with about a $4300 price tag (yet, ironically about $1,000 less than Apple's 'Super Computer' which has nearly half the specs).
Here is a pic and a configuration I would choose for my next PC. Of course, since you just want it for gaming and not a full time computer, this is way too much for you - I am just giving an example of what a cool and powerful monster PC is:
<a href="http://www.alienware.com"; target="_blank">AlienWare</a>
Dragon Full-Tower Case (340-Watt PS) (Saucer Silver)
Enermax EG651P-VE 550 Watt Power Supply
AMD Athlon XP 2100+ Processor 266Mhz FSB
Cooler Master DP5-7H53F High-Performance HSF
1GB DDR SDRAM (PC-2100)
107-Enhanced Windows Keyboard (Saucer Silver)
Microsoft IntelliMouse Explorer USB (Saucer Silver)
Promise FastTrak100 TX2 RAID Controller (Must Select 2 Same Size IDE Drives)
100GB Western Digital UltraATA 7200RPM 8MB Cache
100GB Western Digital UltraATA 7200RPM 8MB Cache
NEC 19" FE950+ MultiSync Flat CRT (Saucer Silver)
NVIDIA® GeForce4 Ti 4600 w/128MB Dual Monitor
KoolMaxx Video Cooling System (Chrome)
SoundBlaster Audigy 5.1 Platinum (w/front panel)
16X /48X IDE DVD-ROM Drive w/Hardware MPEG-2 Decoder
PlexWriter 40X/12X/40X CD-RW IDE
Iomega Internal 250MB Zip Drive IDE
US Robotics V.90 56K Internal Voice/Fax/Data
Klipsch ProMedia 4.1 400-Watt THX Speakers (Saucer Silver)
Intel® PRO/100 S Desktop Adapter Ethernet
Aliencare Toll-Free 2-Year 24/7 ONSITE Warranty
Microsoft® Windows® XP Home Edition
$4,364 - no TAX and free FedEx delivery.
[ 04-01-2002: Message edited by: Patchouli ]</p>
Enermax EG651P-VE 550 Watt Power Supply
AMD Athlon XP 2100+ Processor 266Mhz FSB
Cooler Master DP5-7H53F High-Performance HSF
1GB DDR SDRAM (PC-2100)
107-Enhanced Windows Keyboard (Saucer Silver)
Microsoft IntelliMouse Explorer USB (Saucer Silver)
Promise FastTrak100 TX2 RAID Controller (Must Select 2 Same Size IDE Drives)
100GB Western Digital UltraATA 7200RPM 8MB Cache
100GB Western Digital UltraATA 7200RPM 8MB Cache
NEC 19" FE950+ MultiSync Flat CRT (Saucer Silver)
NVIDIA® GeForce4 Ti 4600 w/128MB Dual Monitor
KoolMaxx Video Cooling System (Chrome)
SoundBlaster Audigy 5.1 Platinum (w/front panel)
16X /48X IDE DVD-ROM Drive w/Hardware MPEG-2 Decoder
PlexWriter 40X/12X/40X CD-RW IDE
Iomega Internal 250MB Zip Drive IDE
US Robotics V.90 56K Internal Voice/Fax/Data
Klipsch ProMedia 4.1 400-Watt THX Speakers (Saucer Silver)
Intel® PRO/100 S Desktop Adapter Ethernet Adapter
Aliencare Toll-Free 2-Year 24/7 ONSITE Warranty
Microsoft® Windows® XP Home Edition<hr></blockquote>
The catch: I could build that for $2500.
<strong>
Remember, your system will garaunteed not boot perfectly on your first try. Did mine? No...I pressed the wrong damn power button.
Did you buy that Chieftech case with the 420W power supply from newegg? One of my friends bought that case and we couldn't get his system (1800+) to boot for anything until we replaced the power supply with an Antec. If your new video card doesn't do the trick I'd definately look into that power supply.
I hope it's the video card *knock on wood*.
Overclocking is where it's at. If you're not going to overclock, then just buy a console.
[quote]Heatsink? I got the Alpha PAL8045. It's the best damn Socket A HS out there IMO. Something like $35, and there's a nice little phamplet to explain how you mount it, comes with all the screws, etc. Highly recommended.<hr></blockquote>
To me, the Swiftech is still tops. The CoolerMaster witht he heatpipe is pretty nifty too.
[quote]Fans? I outfitted my case with 4 Panaflo fans. They're made by Panasonic and push a decent amount of air for the noise they make. They are pretty quiet. I also got one for the heatsink. The Alpha will take any standard 80MM fan, Fans will come in 60MM, 80MM, 92MM, and 120MM sizes in diameter. There are smaller ones etc. for graphics cards and stuff, but those are the most common sizes. A run down on fan makers (you will soon realize how important fans are):
Delta: Incredibly loud, but push incredible amounts of air. Make a high pitched whine that has been known to drive people insane.
Sunon: Push good amount of air, but very loud. Not as loud as Delta though.
Panaflo: A good blend of loudness/airflow.
Sanyo: Kind of the midrange, average...I'm not really sure though, I haven't heard much.
Papst: Very quiet, push a respectable amount of air, but are quite expensive.<hr></blockquote>
Generally, I only go with Panaflo if I use fans over 92 mm in diameter. Their 80 mm fans just don't push a lot of air, and if You're going to use 4 80 mm fans, you might as well find a case that accepts 92 or 120 mm fans.
[quote]HD: Go with IDE, for sure! SCSI is a pain in the ass for us n00b PC builders. Stay away from IBM, except for maybe the 120GXP series...they can't seem to make anything without crapping it up these days. Maxtor, Western Digital, and Seagate (wait, do they even make IDE drives?) are all good choices. I'd go Maxtor?supposedly the fastest. Go with a 7200RPM, and then decide on the size. I got a 40GB 7200RPM Maxtor 740DX. Price? $85.<hr></blockquote>
IBM has ludicrous specs on the 120GXPs, like 11 maximum continuous power-on hours a day...333 hours a month
<a href="http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/cn/20020322/tc_cn/ibm_acts_to_quell_hard_drive_concern&cid=70"; target="_blank">Check this out</a>
Personally, I'd go with Seagate's Barracuda ATA IV HDDs.
[quote]Case: Okay, this is tough. Sure, a case is a case, but you want a blend of cooling, appearance, and price. You also want a good power supply. Here's what I'd get:
The Antec SX1040B. It's black, has a solid 400W Antec PSU, and is a very very good case. I have basically a clone with a generic 420W PSU (hey, it seems to work). Has room for 4 80MM fans, comes with 2. 6 3.5" bays, 4 full size external bays.<hr></blockquote>
It's not really fair to call your case a clone. Antec just buys OEM cases from Chenming or Uneec...the same source of your case probably.
[ 04-02-2002: Message edited by: Eugene ]</p>
<strong>Yep, that's the one. However, I'm pretty sure the PSU is fine because the fans work and I get the correct POST code (FF) that means the mobo is working. So if everything is peachy, and I know the monitor works, it's gotta be between the mobo-->monitor. So either I've got a fried AGP slot or a bum video card.
I hope it's the video card *knock on wood*.</strong><hr></blockquote>
The fans spun on this system too, but the power was not clean enough to boot the computer. Also be aware that they usually ship that power supply set to 220V instead of 110V.
[quote]Personally, I'd go with Seagate's Barracuda ATA IV HDDs.
<hr></blockquote>
Seagate Barracuda IV is nice if you want a very quiet cool running drive. But it's slow compared to it's competitors. I second the Maxtor D740X series. Or if you have the cash check out the Western Digtal 1200JB series, has 8MB of cache. <a href="http://www.storagereview.com"; target="_blank">www.storagereview.com</a> in the best place for reading about drive performance and recomendations.
[ 04-02-2002: Message edited by: Eskimo ]</p>
Somebody at school contracted me to upgrade his computer so he can have the most powerful PC he possibly can. He's running Cubase etc and doing 16 racks, so I figure I would get him on the Athlon MP wagon.
Not sure how high he's willing to, I told him 500 should do it. basically I figure get him a new processor and maybe mobo instead of having him buy a whole new PC. He has what looks to be an ok case, but I'm not sure of a few things.
First, would you agree that it wouldnt be worthwhile to have say an Athlon XP 2100+ on his mobo? It is an ASUS CUV4X-E & has 133 MHz FSB, AGP Pro/4x, and Socket 370 Motherboard.
I thought that he should get dual processors if he wanted to have a real fast computer for his audio apps, so that would require getting a new mobo.
What he needs:
Athlon MP
DDR mobo
1 GB DDR RAM
Im thinking that he should get an Athlon MP 2000 or 1900. What is the best Dual Athlon mobo I can get and how much do they run? Are there any combos where you can get the dual Athlons & mobo together?
What do you think the best bet would be? A single Athlon Xp2100+ w/ DDR333 mobo, or something like an Athlon MP 1800, 1900?
Remember the budget being $500. He will spend what he has to (go over that 500) if he has to to get a bitchin system.
He wants to do it like right away (he was going to put down the money today) but Im a little wary of things like Thouroughbred and faster DDR. Even AGP 3.0.
I don't know about the CoolerMaster, but the Swiftech MC462 (if that's the one you had in mind...) is quite a bit more expensive than the PAL8045, plus doesn't seem to cool quite as well.
[quote]Generally, I only go with Panaflo if I use fans over 92 mm in diameter. Their 80 mm fans just don't push a lot of air, and if You're going to use 4 80 mm fans, you might as well find a case that accepts 92 or 120 mm fans.<hr></blockquote>
Maybe so, but you gotta factor in price. Panaflo L1A 80mm are about $3 a pop at BGMicro. I don't know the link offhand, but you can find it at Ars.
[quote]It's not really fair to call your case a clone. Antec just buys OEM cases from Chenming or Uneec...the same source of your case probably.<hr></blockquote>
I'm starting to think you're a Uneec employee or something...that really seems to annoy you, doesn't it?
[quote]The fans spun on this system too, but the power was not clean enough to boot the computer. Also be aware that they usually ship that power supply set to 220V instead of 110V.<hr></blockquote>
Maybe I'll check it out. I only paid an extra $5 for a 420W PSU, so I won't feel that bad if I have to shell out another $40 for a nice Antec (yeah ok Eugene, I know, it's just a rebadged PSU from Heorichi or whatever) or Sparkle...I'm thinking 340-370W should do the job. I'm gonna check to make sure it isn't the graphics card first though. NewEgg has a new one shipped already (they're so nice...
What do you think the best bet would be? A single Athlon Xp2100+ w/ DDR333 mobo, or something like an Athlon MP 1800, 1900?
<hr></blockquote>
Best dual board for your budget right now would be the Tyan Tiger MP (note: not MPX). There is a newer dual chipset called the 760MPX out now but currently inserting any PCI cards into the motherboard will disable the ability to use USB ports. Therefore it is recommended to purchase the slightly older 760MP version. It runs between $199-$220 in price. You could get Dual Athlon MPs but you will pay a price premium. For 1800's you are talking close to $200 per processor.
For about half the price you could buy 2 AthlonXP 1800+ and use them in the motherboard. They are not "certified" for dual operation but they work 99.5% of the time. Certification costs you money. I looked on a forum and they claim the newest version of Cubase is multi processor aware so I would go with dual processors then. Also make sure he has a fast hard drive, as that can be a bottleneck in most high end systems today. I'd imagine for audio work he already has a high end soundcard?
For memory you should be aware that the 760MP requires registered DDR memory. I would look at Corsair memory for the best compatibility. Newegg.com and Mwave.com are both good places to order from online for all these parts. The website for the motherboard is <a href="http://www.tyan.com/products/html/tigermp.html"; target="_blank">http://www.tyan.com/products/html/tigermp.html</a>;
A good review of the board is at <a href="http://www.2cpu.com/Hardware/tiger_mp/"; target="_blank">http://www.2cpu.com/Hardware/tiger_mp/</a>;
On Tyan's site it states, "The Tiger MP S2460 accepts a standard ATX-style power supply . However, the P/S must be able to supply a minimum of 30A on the 5-volt line. Many 300+ watt power supplies on the market today are capable of this output." So a new power supply may be necessary. Again I'll recommend Enermax, Antec, and Sparkle as good brands.
[quote]I sure as hell hope mine isn't set to 220V...wouldn't that seriously fsck things up? <hr></blockquote>
I've started up 2 systems by accident at 220 with no lasting damage/problems. I believe the motherboard is smart enough to sense the wrong voltage and doesn't allow power to distribute to critical devices like the CPU and memory.
[quote]I don't know about the CoolerMaster, but the Swiftech MC462 (if that's the one you had in mind...) is quite a bit more expensive than the PAL8045, plus doesn't seem to cool quite as well.
<hr></blockquote>
The new Thermalright AX-7 is my personal favorite heatsink at the moment. Great cooling with a Panaflo 80mm and it won't drive you insane like the Delta fans. And because the base is slightly smaller than 80x80mm like the PAL8045 it will fit on most every motherboard. And since it uses traditional clipping mechanism motherboard removal is not necessary to install and it works on dual Athlon motherboards.
Ah, I forgot to mention that. I've heard great things about it. Considering AMD is going to remove to mobo mounting holes from future designs (or at least is planning on it), the AX7 might be the PAL8045 successor. The old SK6 was good too, but it only accepted 60MM fans (you could use a converter though, but...meh).
On a side note for gaming, I just recieved my Razer Boomslang 2000 mouse in the mail today (got it on ars for $15!) and it works fantastically. Even though I haven't fiddled with it much to getting it to work with my G4, it should serve me well on the AMD box.
I think your prices are waaaaaayyy too high. The Tyan Dual Thunder K7 was $117.
Here are the prices I found for Athlon MP:
Athlon MP 2000- $267
Athlon MP 1900- $178
Athlon MP 1800- $167
I'd think it would best to go w/Athlon MP 1800. Do you know if any mobos are DDR333 (or higher) that support the Athlon MP? I would rather get the Athlon MP, as it is acually cheaper contrary to what you stated. Example:
Athlon XP 1800- $107
Athlom MP 1800- $167
He has the newest version of Cubase and I was thinking it would be MP-aware and that would give him more performance. He said he had a 60 GB hard drive, so I think it's probably ok.
I noticed the SiS 735 chipset very cheap, and it supports both the Athlon XP & MP, and is 266FSB. Is this a descent one? I saw it for $54.
Also, he wants onboard Firewire.
Athlon XP 1800- $107
Athlom MP 1800- $167<hr></blockquote>
Okay, maybe I'm completely missing out on something, but last time I checked, $167 meant MORE MONEY than $107.
I was thinking the Tyan. There's also something called the Tyan Dual Thunder K7? What is that like?
<hr></blockquote>
Tyan Thunder is more expensive version of dual Athlon board intended for servers and 1U rackmounted systems, has onboard dual 3COM 10/100 ethernet and Ultra160 SCSI. It's priced from $300-$450 depending on if you get it with the SCSI or not.
[quote]
What is not being MPX going to do (is it that important?)?
<hr></blockquote>
MPX supports 64bit/66MHz PCI slots, doubtful you'll ever need them unless you have a very high end RAID card or something similar. Standard MP (which includes ThunderK7) has 64bit/33MHz and 32bit/33MHz slots.
[quote]
I think your prices are waaaaaayyy too high. The Tyan Dual Thunder K7 was $117.
<hr></blockquote>
Your price is incorrect or you are looking at the price for something else. Trust me you will not find the Thunder K7 for less than $300.
[quote]
Do you know if any mobos are DDR333 (or higher) that support the Athlon MP? <hr></blockquote>
No there are not but the performance advantage of DDR333 over DDR266 is neglible to nonexistant due to the Athlon processor being bottlnecked by its 266MHz front side bus speed.
[quote]
I would rather get the Athlon MP, as it is acually cheaper contrary to what you stated. Example:
Athlon XP 1800- $107
Athlom MP 1800- $167
<hr></blockquote>
Please reread what you just wrote and get back to me on that one, put down the pipe son
[quote]
I noticed the SiS 735 chipset very cheap, and it supports both the Athlon XP & MP, and is 266FSB. Is this a descent one? I saw it for $54.
<hr></blockquote>
The SiS 735 chipset is a fair one, but only supports a single processor. I would not recommend the motherboard you are talking about ECS K7S5A (the $54 one) for your friend. It is very picky about components and has given many much more technical folk plenty of headaches. As a side note any chipset that supports AthlonXP will support AthlonMP processors. They are identical in nearly every regard except for pricing. Again if he is looking to stay under $500 I would stick with AthlonXP processors even if he intends to go dual.
[quote]
Also, he wants onboard Firewire.<hr></blockquote>
Not available on any of the dual systems. Firewire PCI cards are cheap and there are lots of them available for the PC, just buy one.
Ok here's a question. Do you know if 2 Athlon XP processors can work together on the Tyan Tiger MP? I guess that would be a little better IF it would work without problems. Or would you say Athlon XP 2100 w/DDR 333 mobo is better than a Athlon MP 1500 system? He does use Cubase and other audio apps that would be good with dualies.
Sh*t, now I feel retarded re-reading my post!
Yes they work, i stated this previously in 2 posts responding to you.