Barnes & Noble to take on Kindle Fire, iPad with new $250 Nook Tablet

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Comments

  • Reply 21 of 65
    alfiejralfiejr Posts: 1,524member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post


    Great post!



    yes, 4:3 is definitely more practically flexible/useable than Android's 16:10 aspect (and you can get a higher arch on those Angry Bird dive-bomb shots!). but how big a market effect that has we really can't tell. there are too many other factors involved at the same time to isolate just one. i don't trust "surveys" - you really can't decide what you prefer until after trying both out doing the same things for an extended period, and it will take years to accumulate such experience.
  • Reply 22 of 65
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Alfiejr View Post


    what we see here is the true emergence of a "basic small tablet" market at a low-end price point. especially the new Nook Tablet, which is a better thought out v.2 model of the v.1 Nook Color. its hardware is clearly more developed than the first Amazon Fire coming soon that is just a stripped down version of the failed Playbook's hardware (an improved Fire is reportedly coming early next year).



    the Nook and Fire are not the first effort to address this market of course. Archos has been trying for two years. but the both the Fire and Nook bring ecosystems with them that Archos always lacked - Amazon's cloud and Barns & Nobles' retail stores. and both the Fire and Nook are proprietary "walled gardens" running forked versions of Android that, unlike Archos, don't depend on Google for anything. which means they are simpler/easier to use.



    So this is very significant. the big question is of course, how popular will they be? we'll have to wait and see over the next year ... the general market viability of the 7" size is still very much in question.



    and to get to this low-end price point, both the Fire and Nook sacrifice many features. no camera, 3G, or Bluetooth. does that matter? we'll see ...



    but one thing, they will still very likely crowd out the high-end "full featured" Android 7" tablets, like the new Samsung Galaxy at $399, even if those run the latest ICS software. buyers that want all those capabilities might as well upgrade to a 2x bigger 10" screen for just $100 more, unless there is some unusual reason the smaller size works best for them (certainly not for just sitting on the sofa).



    Apple is lacking a product for the tablet market between the 3.5" iPod touch and the 10" iPad. i think that is a mistake. a larger 5.5" version of the touch would be a great PGP (to complete with Sony's Vita and the 3DS), and still much more portable than a 7" tablet. and at $299 it would compete very well with this new batch of basic tablets, thanks to all of its much superior capabilities. maybe next year ...



    I agree with everything except the last paragraph.



    Some questions... let's assume that the Fire and new B&N tablets are successful. Some of this will be due to:



    -- a forked stable version of Android

    -- added proprietary functions to the basic Android OS

    -- an infrastructure supporting content, apps, and to some extent developers



    Conceivably, these 2 low-priced tablets could preempt other vendors' planned Android tablets -- to the point where there is little or no money to be made in the Android Tablet market.



    Questions:



    1) If Android tablets are not selling, does Google continue developing tablet-specific features past ICS?



    2) Neither the Fire or the B&N will have ICS -- what happens in, say a year, when the forked Android OSes get a little long in the tooth?



    3) What happens if Google loses its lawsuits and suppliers of these forked Android OSes (B&N And Amazon) must pay for the privilege?



    4) What if early next year Apple announces the iPad 3 and continues to sell an iPad 1 and iPad 2 at reduced prices -- say $250-$299?



    It appears, to me, that targeting these tablets at anything but book and movie consumption in the <$200 price range is pretty risky -- and provides a very small window of opportunity.



    Thoughts?



  • Reply 23 of 65
    techboytechboy Posts: 183member
    Maybe it is just me, but I don't find the current Nook Color responsive compare to current 10-in tablets. It could be OS issue or hardware. I find it slow compare to even 1st-gen iPad.



    I think neither BN or Amazon will be honest enough to admit 7-in form is "optimized" for epub reading and not magazine/picture books or any pdf format books.
  • Reply 24 of 65
    shaun, ukshaun, uk Posts: 1,050member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by paxman View Post


    In what way is the Nook (colour) and the Kindle Fire, for that matter, optimized for the reading experience beyond what the iPad is?



    If you look at the advertising for these 7" eBook/tablet devices they usually show a woman putting one into her handbag, that's because women buy significantly more books than men. So yes in a way the Kindle and Nook are more optimised for reading books, especially if you're a woman. They're also much lighter and easier to hold in one hand like a paper book.
  • Reply 25 of 65
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by airnerd View Post


    And yet the Lenovo A1 has better specs and a $199 price tag.





    The 7" market is so overrun, no one will be able to tell any of them apart. And iPad will just let them have the tiny screen market. No use getting into that mess.



    Specs. That all these tablets have to offer, because none of them owns the user experience, except for the TouchPad and PlayBook. Apple iPad offers that, plus the whole iOS ecosystem.
  • Reply 26 of 65
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Techboy View Post


    I agreed with this as well. Apple will not be interested in competing for lower profit margin market anyway. Apple refused to release and compete in low-end desktop computers for the same reason.



    Big Lots! was advertising a $77 PanDigital brand 7" Android tablet. Junk, pure junk.
  • Reply 27 of 65
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    I'm glad to see Amazon and B&N using IPS panels for their displays.
  • Reply 28 of 65
    I'd consider this as I use my iPad mostly for Netflix...but I'm looking at the feature list and am curious as to what "Exclusive design for remarkable clarity and minimal reflection & glare" actually means. Does it have a special coating?



    That is my main gripe with the iPad, I could never use it outside if I wanted to.



    I'm also mesmerized by the "hook" in the corner of the device, and not in a good way. What is it for...a strap? I love the sleek silver look but the notch is a distraction.
  • Reply 29 of 65
    alfiejralfiejr Posts: 1,524member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post


    I agree with everything except the last paragraph.



    Some questions... let's assume that the Fire and new B&N tablets are successful. Some of this will be due to:



    -- a forked stable version of Android

    -- added proprietary functions to the basic Android OS

    -- an infrastructure supporting content, apps, and to some extent developers



    Conceivably, these 2 low-priced tablets could preempt other vendors' planned Android tablets -- to the point where there is little or no money to be made in the Android Tablet market.



    Questions:



    1) If Android tablets are not selling, does Google continue developing tablet-specific features past ICS?



    2) Neither the Fire or the B&N will have ICS -- what happens in, say a year, when the forked Android OSes get a little long in the tooth?



    3) What happens if Google loses its lawsuits and suppliers of these forked Android OSes (B&N And Amazon) must pay for the privilege?



    4) What if early next year Apple announces the iPad 3 and continues to sell an iPad 1 and iPad 2 at reduced prices -- say $250-$299?



    It appears, to me, that targeting these tablets at anything but book and movie consumption in the <$200 price range is pretty risky -- and provides a very small window of opportunity.



    Thoughts?







    i actually see the real competition for the iPod touch being Sony's Vita and Nintendo's 3DS, not any Android tablet at all. because games are the most important factor in the kids/teen market - equalled only by texting and, of course, the media player function. then the camera. but third party apps, not so much. other than games of course, where the touch has a huge price advantage vs. Sony/Nintendo.



    i could be wrong, but i'd bet 2/3 of touch users are under 18. mostly bought by their parents?



    so a somewhat larger screen is certainly even better for games and media. but a 5.5" size will still fit in many pockets - which is why Sony picked it for the Vita i suppose. 7" is simply getting too big tho - unless you're wearing cargo pants you need a pack or something to carry it.



    and the ability of the touch to do a whole lot more, along with the full Apple ecosystem, is what would make a 5.5" version a very strong new contender against the new "basic tablets" like the Nook and Fire - and whatever Google Android products we see soon too. it would be running scaled-up iPhone apps along with cameras and all the rest. it would take a very big chunk of the under-$300 market.



    i wondered why Apple did not update the iPod touch at all this year, except for iOS 5 of course. maybe the supply of A5 chips was just too tight thanks to the iPhone 4S. next year?
  • Reply 30 of 65
    The original title of the article in Appleinsider says: "Barnes & Noble to take on Kindle Fire, iPad with new $250 Nook Tablet". However, nowhere in the article content can be inferred that, in fact, is quite the opposite.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post


    Barnes & Noble on Monday unveiled its next-generation Nook Tablet, a new 7-inch touchscreen device with a color screen that's a direct competitor to Amazon's new Kindle Fire.



    Speaking with USA Today, Lynch said that he doesn't view Apple's iPad as a direct competitor. Instead, he believes people will buy both an iPad and a Nook Tablet.




  • Reply 31 of 65
    alfiejralfiejr Posts: 1,524member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Shaun, UK View Post


    If you look at the advertising for these 7" eBook/tablet devices they usually show a woman putting one into her handbag, that's because women buy significantly more books than men. So yes in a way the Kindle and Nook are more optimised for reading books, especially if you're a woman. They're also much lighter and easier to hold in one hand like a paper book.



    really good point. wouldn't surprise me at all if 2/3 of the buyers of the Fire/Nook turn out to be women. you're right, 7" is a good size for a handbag if nothing else. their simplicity is also a big selling point for women.
  • Reply 32 of 65
    jlanddjlandd Posts: 873member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Alfiejr View Post




    the Nook and Fire are not the first effort to address this market of course. Archos has been trying for two years. but the both the Fire and Nook bring ecosystems with them that Archos always lacked - Amazon's cloud and Barns & Nobles' retail stores. and both the Fire and Nook are proprietary "walled gardens" running forked versions of Android that, unlike Archos, don't depend on Google for anything. which means they are simpler/easier to use.





    The main reason Archos tablets will never succeed on any scale larger than their current one (smaller than miniscule) is that now they are selling to a market that is used to the customer service experience provided by Amazon, B & N and Apple, and that's not a reference to the "we'll fix it if it breaks" customer service. Most older Archos products are now doorstops because they sold them like radios or mp3 players at best, and Archos' support presence was like that of a hard drive manufacturer. That is, you would think they were hiding from you. Most people aren't crazy about how tied in one is to the "ecosystems" of any big 3 tablets, but that's how they provide a functioning experience. Pick your poison and enjoy it. "Simpler/easier to use" due to the closed aspect bothers many with good reason, but that's how it is. The days of good tablets NOT controlled by such a closed system is over, if it ever existed at all. Does anyone know someone who jumped on one of those early Archos releases who is considering a new one over these other options?



    No company that thinks they only need to compete on the widget level has any chance in the $200 and up tablet category regardless of the specs of the widget. There's a big graveyard of tablets whose maker thought that.
  • Reply 33 of 65
    paxmanpaxman Posts: 4,612member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Alfiejr View Post


    really good point. wouldn't surprise me at all if 2/3 of the buyers of the Fire/Nook turn out to be women. you're right, 7" is a good size for a handbag if nothing else. their simplicity is also a big selling point for women.



    Yes, weight and handbagging ability are great selling points for a reader. I can see Apple bring out a 7" model at some point in the future but it won't be competing for the low end of the market.



    I see the biggest threat to Apple being Apple's success. How can Apple keep the iPad and iPhone/pod cool for younger people when their moms and dads, as well as their grandparents use the same things? At the moment it is working but at a certain point kids are going to need to differentiate. That's just human nature.
  • Reply 34 of 65
    jlanddjlandd Posts: 873member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Alfiejr View Post


    really good point. wouldn't surprise me at all if 2/3 of the buyers of the Fire/Nook turn out to be women. you're right, 7" is a good size for a handbag if nothing else. their simplicity is also a big selling point for women.



    Yes, and also for one-handed use on a subway or bus during a commute. The 10" tablets only get pulled out pretty much when they get a seat, the smaller e-readers less so. I strap-hang with my iPod touch and wouldn't commute with a substitute that I couldn't navigate with the same hand that was holding it. Quite a specific niche I know, but... : )
  • Reply 35 of 65
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by benanderson89 View Post


    Oh wow! Digging the super hero comic in the advert. Maybe I can buy a nook and have uber awesome comic readings in a digital form! ...



    I know comics is not the focus of this article but I'm in one of those moods and I felt like nit-picking the promotional image.



    My pet peve about digital comics (a much more interesting topic that the actual article), is that they just aren't available and those that are, are not available for a reasonable price. There is also a stupid app for every comic book distributor each with it's own built in store so you have to have a marvel app and a this app and a that app etc.



    It's almost as if they purposely designed a digital comic distribution system that went out of it's way to screw over and confuse the customer at every stage. Most folks who read comics on an iPad therefore usually end up using a generic reader and ripping off the comics from torrents.



    It's the music business all over again, but the market is so much smaller it will be years before these idiots figure out that they are putting up more barriers to digital distribution than they are helping it out. Torrented comics, especially the older ones, are all crappy scans and full of other garbage as well. There are tons of comics I would love to buy if they were actually available at a reasonable price.
  • Reply 36 of 65
    zindakozindako Posts: 468member
    I see everyone as expected in this thread is caught up with specifications. Good thing Steve never hung his every design based on speccs, but rather ease of use and high quality. Keep it up people, keep on touting speccs like it ever mattered in the design of Apple products, I'm sure devices with all these impressive speccs are selling out, and lines are being formed around the corner to pickup a kindle fire or any other crap android generic device.
  • Reply 37 of 65
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by zindako View Post


    I see everyone as expected in this thread is caught up with specifications. Good thing Steve never hung his every design based on speccs, but rather ease of use and high quality. Keep it up people, keep on touting speccs like it ever mattered in the design of Apple products, I'm sure devices with all these impressive speccs are selling out, and lines are being formed around the corner to pickup a kindle fire or any other crap android generic device.



    Apple has always focused on specifications, it's just different from the way other vendors use specifications. Apple cares about specifications as they relate to the user experience, while most other vendors seem to only care about specifications as they relate to the user's expectations. That's why they touted all the spec changes in the 4S camera, why they don't talk about the increase memory lane in the A5 processor, and why their competitors tend to focus on only upgrading specs that the user can wrap their head around and fit nicely on a spec sheet.
  • Reply 38 of 65
    alfiejralfiejr Posts: 1,524member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jlandd View Post


    The main reason Archos tablets will never succeed on any scale larger than their current one (smaller than miniscule) is that now they are selling to a market that is used to the customer service experience provided by Amazon, B & N and Apple, and that's not a reference to the "we'll fix it if it breaks" customer service. Most older Archos products are now doorstops because they sold them like radios or mp3 players at best, and Archos' support presence was like that of a hard drive manufacturer. That is, you would think they were hiding from you. Most people aren't crazy about how tied in one is to the "ecosystems" of any big 3 tablets, but that's how they provide a functioning experience. Pick your poison and enjoy it. "Simpler/easier to use" due to the closed aspect bothers many with good reason, but that's how it is. The days of good tablets NOT controlled by such a closed system is over, if it ever existed at all. Does anyone know someone who jumped on one of those early Archos releases who is considering a new one over these other options?



    No company that thinks they only need to compete on the widget level has any chance in the $200 and up tablet category regardless of the specs of the widget. There's a big graveyard of tablets whose maker thought that.



    exactly.
  • Reply 39 of 65
    alfiejralfiejr Posts: 1,524member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jlandd View Post


    Yes, and also for one-handed use on a subway or bus during a commute. The 10" tablets only get pulled out pretty much when they get a seat, the smaller e-readers less so. I strap-hang with my iPod touch and wouldn't commute with a substitute that I couldn't navigate with the same hand that was holding it. Quite a specific niche I know, but... : )



    we don't dare pull iPads out on public transit here (SF) - too many people getting mugged in broad daylight for Apple iDevices.
  • Reply 40 of 65
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jlandd View Post


    No company that thinks they only need to compete on the widget level has any chance in the $200 and up tablet category regardless of the specs of the widget. There's a big graveyard of tablets whose maker thought that.



    That is a profound observation!



    I wonder how that (and the new Nook) affect Amazon's plans for a larger screen version of the Fire.



    Since the first iPad was announced, I've had this thought that it could deliver on the promise of OTPC/OLPC (One Tablet/Laptop Per Child).



    The capabilities are certainly there in the iPad -- but the price isn't there yet!



    Various attempts have been made to deliver on the OTPC/OLPC -- but none have delivered in any quantity or met their price goals.





    Here's a concept tablet for 2011, then 2012...













    And here are the totals of OLPC deployments:









    and the Wiki writeup



    One Laptop per Child





    We aren't there yet... but I believe there will be a technology/price solution to this promise within 2 years.



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