As my girlfriend (who represents the average consumer) said so wonderfully about the HTC Titan, "It doesn't feel like a phone or computer, it feels real and natural."
So if the windows phone doesn't "feel" like a phone or a like a computer - what exactly is "real and natural" for a device that is supposed to be both a phone and a portable computer?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ErosLWS
I won't buy a phone without built-in voice navigation, for example
Meaning you won't buy an iPhone until the default included map software has spoken navigation assistance? Seems like an artificial reason to me - I have been using MapQuest on my iPhone for years - not only does it include spoken turn by turn navigation - but it is free and has been improved a number of times and now shows ETA (which was one of the main reasons I still use the TomTom) - and you can go to the mapuest website to do some route planning and then access that from the phone. There is still some room for improvement - but it works very well.
Their marketing plan is obvious, HP already showed the way. Plan to lose a fortune on this thing to get it in as many hands as possible and you'll shift boat loads. Especially if there is a way to wipe it and install some version of Android.
Their marketing plan is obvious, HP already showed the way. Plan to lose a fortune on this thing to get it in as many hands as possible and you'll shift boat loads. Especially if there is a way to wipe it and install some version of Android.
The Nokia Windows phones will more than likely take roughly 50% of the market here very shortly when they are released. Germans LOVE Nokia... even though Nokia built a plant a few years ago with govt. money and then later shut it down, releasing it's "guarenteed jobs" to the streets. Not nice, but didn't, and still doesn't, affect people's trust and purchase of a decent Nokia phone.
The word is out on Android devices: cheap and worse security than WindowsXP; nobody wants to deal with that! Warnings on every front page media, web and print recently.
iOS: still chugging along for those in the know and from certain "consultants" ~ ~ that steer them in the right direction. I'd guesstimate a solid 40% in the future. That's smartphones BTW.
Truth is, most people are still content with... yes... their Nokia feature phones. Many people (private consumers) can't justify the price and contract of a "real" Smartphone. On the other hand, business people love the iPhone, because they can deduct the entire cost from their business expenses and taxes.
I do believe the tech guys in IT will jump all over the Windows phone, and forcefully "recommend" it over the iPhone... just because they still feel most comfortable in that "arena".
HOWEVER... it is amazing how many Macs one sees on TV in report shows: doctors, lawyers, teachers... even quite a few consumers. Apple is definitely getting noticed and used outside of the traditional publishing, printing and media industries. I'm always proud to be a part of, and help with, that transition
"When they are released" is the key. They are already late and it's nice to know my visits to 2 stores in Switzerland to take a look at a Nokia with the Windows OS went no where as I could not find any. Appears to be the same case in Germany.
Yes, the German IT departments may "forcefully" "recommend" Windows. That will work in Germany, it's not going to work anywhere else. And Nokia needs a lot more than Germany to exist.
My wife now has a new 4s. Exciting, no. I had hoped to try out the new Nokia's. Maybe in 2 years.
The analyst is out of his mind. The Nokia brand will sell millions of phones in Europe and Asia. Maybe not in the US, but the Nokia brand will drive a lot of marketshare.
The Nokia cloner Windows Phone is DOA just like I predicted. No sales numbers means only one thing...it is not selling. Why would a Nokia cloner Windows Phone magically sell when no other cloner Windows Phones are selling? Because the OS is garbage, that is why. The UI is terrible and totally unusable.
So if the windows phone doesn't "feel" like a phone or a like a computer - what exactly is "real and natural" for a device that is supposed to be both a phone and a portable computer?
The Windows Phone UI feels alive. In comparison other phones feel like you are prodding a dead zombie corpse to do your bidding. HTC Sense and some other Android skins are a little different, they are more like prodding a zombie corpse dressed for the mardi gras.
It's hard to find words to explain the Windows Phone UI unless you've played with it, but "real and natural" is a pretty good attempt.
Unfortunately for Microsoft "it feels alive" isn't a field on a check list of features people look for when purchasing a smartphone, it doesn't translate well in video or print and no-one owns a Windows Phone for other people to have hands on experience with.
"When they are released" is the key. They are already late and it's nice to know my visits to 2 stores in Switzerland to take a look at a Nokia with the Windows OS went no where as I could not find any. Appears to be the same case in Germany.
Yes, the German IT departments may "forcefully" "recommend" Windows. That will work in Germany, it's not going to work anywhere else. And Nokia needs a lot more than Germany to exist.
My wife now has a new 4s. Exciting, no. I had hoped to try out the new Nokia's. Maybe in 2 years.
Not sure if you caught what I was getting at, and it wasn't cheerleading for Win/Kia at all. It was just stating facts and prognostications as i see it here in Germany.
If anything, I'm betting AGAINST Android taking the "left-overs" from iOS dominance in the Smartphone race. I was even being conservative really.
Fact is that Android, at the moment, is the new "feature phone" replacement on the block, which until lately, was dominated by Nokia. It will be interesting to see whether Nokia fans pony-up with Windows 7 or 8... but I think they will.
As for Blackberry: I'm getting ready any day now for the announcement that they are being bought, partnering with someone, or will be taken private by some Saudi sheik.
That has been my betting line for more than a year I believe (you could check my posts here at AI). They've went from a high of almost $70.- down to less than $17.- in LESS than a year.
Can anyone say: takeover target!? Yes... they do have some IP, so it is "worth" something. Maybe Canadian Wampum?
And the more you spend on Apple products, the prouder you can be.
Any time your self-worth takes a hit, just buy a new gadget! Then you can be proud of yourself again.
If you can name just one better integrated system than what Apple has to offer across all of it's devices, and 2 "close-to-perfect" OSes, I'll take a look at it to offer my clients and purchase myself.
Fact is: you can't. There is none.
There's a little known metric regarding service and support, called ROI. Something that the other systems out there, forget to tell their customers... because they can't beat Apple at it. Not now and I don't see it in the future. Although, even MS is working on something called the Signature Series for desktops. I believe the one (but not only!) MS Fan and Apple bot basher Ed BotT at ZDnet has an article about it.
Fact: I personally service more clients, with less time spent, and less frustration on my client's and my part.... than I did with Windows (servers mostly). Pay a little more up front, and save A LOT more down the road... including your sanity.
Sorry to bum ya out... but I can't install Macs, iPhones, and iPads fast enough.
Maybe it's your own pride and self-worth that needs a pick me up? And just maybe you're mistaking your lack there of, because you own, have, or create nothing worth being proud of? My sympathies!
BTW: If you care to take a look at my past posts, I mainly sell and consult to small businesses. Hey, it's tight over here in Europe... and I have to really work to pull people's "pennies" out. But when they do, they want something that stands up to "the" and "my" hype. With Apple's products, I'm confident I can do that... and more. Nothing to do with pride, status, and/or self worth.... "It just works".... and it's ALL about getting WORK done as much, as soon, and as painless a possible.
If there's time left for fun and entertainment... well I believe Apple has that covered too as a bonus.
Steve ballmer is an idiot but I feel sorry for the MS employees who created WP7, sort of like how I feel sorry for the creators of OS2.
As with OS2, WP7 appears to be a better product than the market-share leader (in this case android), yet WP7 faces the immense challenge of gaining traction in a rapidly maturing market.
Unless android collapses due to patent issues, the lumia 800 is probably WP7's last chance.
WP7 was probably Microsoft's most original operating system ever. Unlike Android, it doesn't come across as a copy of other operating systems (even ICS comes across as a mix between old Android and WebOS).
I would like to see WP gain traction among manufacturers, since I don't want to see Android become to smartphones was Windows was to PCs. iOS is settling into the "Mac" niche in this analogy, albeit a much larger niche than OS X ever enjoyed. A successful WP keeps the mobile market active.
The failure to get an instant hit product from WP7 out of Nokia shouldn't surprise anyone. I've been saying from the beginning that this wouldn't do well.
There are several problems. The first is that WP7 is woefully unpopular here, in its home market. In fact, marketshare has dropped even further this past quarter. Sales have never been more than about 1.7 million a quarter, and often have been below 1.5 million. That's a very small number.
What makes that worse, is that the phone is being offered by four manufactures, with at least nine models. And two of those manufacturers are HTC and Samsung, the two most popular Android phone manufacturers, if they can't sell WP7 there is no reason the believe Nokia will do any better. Worldwide, Samsung has surpassed Nikia in smartphone sales, as Nokia's sales keep shrinking. So that's not just a US thing.
The other problem is Nokia's image these days. Whenelop first took over, he wanted to make his mark quickly, and let the world know that he understood their problems as previous management didn't. That very good. But he did it all wrong. That infamous memo he sent out has helped destroy trust in the company, and so their smartphone sales fell much more rapidly than the company haspd expected. In fact, a couple of quarters ago, they stated that. I wasn't surprised.
As I said here at the time, that memo was a major mistake, and showed a lack of understanding of business 101 principles. The memor was as follows, not in the exact words, perhaps.
"We poured oil on our burning platform (Symbian), and are now jumping into the icy sea (WP7) where we may not survive (WP7 may fail as well as Symbian has).
The words in parens are mine. This damages Nokia severely. It tells people that they screwed what they had, and what they're moving to may be screwed as well. Not very confidence building. So we've got a very unpopular WP7 being put on phones manufactured by Nokia, a company whose reputation has been almost ruined. How does that combo do well?
I think they will sell WP7 phones, but not in the number both companies expect, and need. This hurts Nokia more so than MS, who has a very large and profitable business anyway. But if this is seen as a failure for Nokia, it could be the effective finish of that company. No company can survive just making cheap phones, because there's no profit in that part of the business.
No company can survive just making cheap phones, because there's no profit in that part of the business.
Have some mercy
Thin margin business has to be carried out by some companies. I don't think all people will have or need smartphones. More than half people will keep using feature phones. But, Nokia can't make big bucks, that's for sure.
That's in Scotland (shortest life span in the UK).
For its part, Nokia maintains that the level of preorders in the U.K. "has been higher for Lumia than any previous handset."
Of other Nokia handsets perhaps but no way ANY other handset.
Nokia dropped the ball years ago by not being inventive, releasing too many products and not supporting them after release (sounds like most Android phones).
Thin margin business has to be carried out by some companies. I don't think all people will have or need smartphones. More than half people will keep using feature phones. But, Nokia can't make big bucks, that's for sure.
Sorry, but various studies have shown that cheap phones are like cheap computers, either they lose money, or at best, break even. The problem that Nokia has is that local companies in China and even India now, are moving in on their cheap phone business and taking business from that. Apple and various Android vendors are taking the profitable high end smartphone business away, and that gives them problems. If you look at their financials, you will see many problems.
Do you know that Nokia makes over 200 different phones? Most sell in relatively small numbers.
They are firing large numbers of people, closing factories, shutting down internal software development; all bad news.
Twenty years ago, Motorola seemed unassailable. They were one of the biggest, most advanced technology companies, and for years, the biggest cell phone manufacturer. But look what happened to them since.
Nokia is on that track. Even Nokia Siemens, their industrial networking manufacturing arm is in big trouble. This is a company in serious decline.
Remember, just a few years ago they had 60% of the worlds smartphone market, but now it's below 17%, and shrinking. This is where they make their profits, or used to, as they aren't making a profit now.
Comments
Nokia is the next RIM.
I thought RIM was the next Nokia?
As my girlfriend (who represents the average consumer) said so wonderfully about the HTC Titan, "It doesn't feel like a phone or computer, it feels real and natural."
So if the windows phone doesn't "feel" like a phone or a like a computer - what exactly is "real and natural" for a device that is supposed to be both a phone and a portable computer?
I won't buy a phone without built-in voice navigation, for example
Meaning you won't buy an iPhone until the default included map software has spoken navigation assistance? Seems like an artificial reason to me - I have been using MapQuest on my iPhone for years - not only does it include spoken turn by turn navigation - but it is free and has been improved a number of times and now shows ETA (which was one of the main reasons I still use the TomTom) - and you can go to the mapuest website to do some route planning and then access that from the phone. There is still some room for improvement - but it works very well.
The Lumia 800 seems to be doing very well in the UK.
So are deep fried Mars Bars I hear.
Their marketing plan is obvious, HP already showed the way. Plan to lose a fortune on this thing to get it in as many hands as possible and you'll shift boat loads. Especially if there is a way to wipe it and install some version of Android.
Dilbert ?
From Germany:
The Nokia Windows phones will more than likely take roughly 50% of the market here very shortly when they are released. Germans LOVE Nokia... even though Nokia built a plant a few years ago with govt. money and then later shut it down, releasing it's "guarenteed jobs" to the streets. Not nice, but didn't, and still doesn't, affect people's trust and purchase of a decent Nokia phone.
The word is out on Android devices: cheap and worse security than WindowsXP; nobody wants to deal with that! Warnings on every front page media, web and print recently.
iOS: still chugging along for those in the know and from certain "consultants" ~
Truth is, most people are still content with... yes... their Nokia feature phones. Many people (private consumers) can't justify the price and contract of a "real" Smartphone. On the other hand, business people love the iPhone, because they can deduct the entire cost from their business expenses and taxes.
I do believe the tech guys in IT will jump all over the Windows phone, and forcefully "recommend" it over the iPhone... just because they still feel most comfortable in that "arena".
HOWEVER... it is amazing how many Macs one sees on TV in report shows: doctors, lawyers, teachers... even quite a few consumers. Apple is definitely getting noticed and used outside of the traditional publishing, printing and media industries. I'm always proud to be a part of, and help with, that transition
"When they are released" is the key. They are already late and it's nice to know my visits to 2 stores in Switzerland to take a look at a Nokia with the Windows OS went no where as I could not find any. Appears to be the same case in Germany.
Yes, the German IT departments may "forcefully" "recommend" Windows. That will work in Germany, it's not going to work anywhere else. And Nokia needs a lot more than Germany to exist.
My wife now has a new 4s. Exciting, no. I had hoped to try out the new Nokia's. Maybe in 2 years.
I'm always proud to be a part of, and help with, that transition
And the more you spend on Apple products, the prouder you can be.
Any time your self-worth takes a hit, just buy a new gadget! Then you can be proud of yourself again.
And the more you spend on Apple products, the prouder you can be.
Any time your self-worth takes a hit, just buy a new gadget! Then you can be proud of yourself again.
Retail therapy can be less expensive and more rewarding than other forms of therapy - at least until you have to file for bankruptcy.
Say what?
This is the UK - contrarian leadership of the EU!
So if the windows phone doesn't "feel" like a phone or a like a computer - what exactly is "real and natural" for a device that is supposed to be both a phone and a portable computer?
The Windows Phone UI feels alive. In comparison other phones feel like you are prodding a dead zombie corpse to do your bidding. HTC Sense and some other Android skins are a little different, they are more like prodding a zombie corpse dressed for the mardi gras.
It's hard to find words to explain the Windows Phone UI unless you've played with it, but "real and natural" is a pretty good attempt.
Unfortunately for Microsoft "it feels alive" isn't a field on a check list of features people look for when purchasing a smartphone, it doesn't translate well in video or print and no-one owns a Windows Phone for other people to have hands on experience with.
"When they are released" is the key. They are already late and it's nice to know my visits to 2 stores in Switzerland to take a look at a Nokia with the Windows OS went no where as I could not find any. Appears to be the same case in Germany.
Yes, the German IT departments may "forcefully" "recommend" Windows. That will work in Germany, it's not going to work anywhere else. And Nokia needs a lot more than Germany to exist.
My wife now has a new 4s. Exciting, no. I had hoped to try out the new Nokia's. Maybe in 2 years.
Not sure if you caught what I was getting at, and it wasn't cheerleading for Win/Kia at all. It was just stating facts and prognostications as i see it here in Germany.
If anything, I'm betting AGAINST Android taking the "left-overs" from iOS dominance in the Smartphone race. I was even being conservative really.
Fact is that Android, at the moment, is the new "feature phone" replacement on the block, which until lately, was dominated by Nokia. It will be interesting to see whether Nokia fans pony-up with Windows 7 or 8... but I think they will.
As for Blackberry: I'm getting ready any day now for the announcement that they are being bought, partnering with someone, or will be taken private by some Saudi sheik.
That has been my betting line for more than a year I believe (you could check my posts here at AI). They've went from a high of almost $70.- down to less than $17.- in LESS than a year.
Can anyone say: takeover target!? Yes... they do have some IP, so it is "worth" something. Maybe Canadian Wampum?
And the more you spend on Apple products, the prouder you can be.
Any time your self-worth takes a hit, just buy a new gadget! Then you can be proud of yourself again.
If you can name just one better integrated system than what Apple has to offer across all of it's devices, and 2 "close-to-perfect" OSes, I'll take a look at it to offer my clients and purchase myself.
Fact is: you can't. There is none.
There's a little known metric regarding service and support, called ROI. Something that the other systems out there, forget to tell their customers... because they can't beat Apple at it. Not now and I don't see it in the future. Although, even MS is working on something called the Signature Series for desktops. I believe the one (but not only!) MS Fan and Apple bot basher Ed BotT at ZDnet has an article about it.
Fact: I personally service more clients, with less time spent, and less frustration on my client's and my part.... than I did with Windows (servers mostly). Pay a little more up front, and save A LOT more down the road... including your sanity.
Sorry to bum ya out... but I can't install Macs, iPhones, and iPads fast enough.
Maybe it's your own pride and self-worth that needs a pick me up? And just maybe you're mistaking your lack there of, because you own, have, or create nothing worth being proud of? My sympathies!
BTW: If you care to take a look at my past posts, I mainly sell and consult to small businesses. Hey, it's tight over here in Europe... and I have to really work to pull people's "pennies" out. But when they do, they want something that stands up to "the" and "my" hype. With Apple's products, I'm confident I can do that... and more. Nothing to do with pride, status, and/or self worth.... "It just works".... and it's ALL about getting WORK done as much, as soon, and as painless a possible.
If there's time left for fun and entertainment... well I believe Apple has that covered too as a bonus.
Microsoft
Android
Apple
Mr. Cook.
All fixed. I changed the font size to something more appropriate for you, and removed any uninformed rhetoric
Steve ballmer is an idiot but I feel sorry for the MS employees who created WP7, sort of like how I feel sorry for the creators of OS2.
As with OS2, WP7 appears to be a better product than the market-share leader (in this case android), yet WP7 faces the immense challenge of gaining traction in a rapidly maturing market.
Unless android collapses due to patent issues, the lumia 800 is probably WP7's last chance.
WP7 was probably Microsoft's most original operating system ever. Unlike Android, it doesn't come across as a copy of other operating systems (even ICS comes across as a mix between old Android and WebOS).
I would like to see WP gain traction among manufacturers, since I don't want to see Android become to smartphones was Windows was to PCs. iOS is settling into the "Mac" niche in this analogy, albeit a much larger niche than OS X ever enjoyed. A successful WP keeps the mobile market active.
There are several problems. The first is that WP7 is woefully unpopular here, in its home market. In fact, marketshare has dropped even further this past quarter. Sales have never been more than about 1.7 million a quarter, and often have been below 1.5 million. That's a very small number.
What makes that worse, is that the phone is being offered by four manufactures, with at least nine models. And two of those manufacturers are HTC and Samsung, the two most popular Android phone manufacturers, if they can't sell WP7 there is no reason the believe Nokia will do any better. Worldwide, Samsung has surpassed Nikia in smartphone sales, as Nokia's sales keep shrinking. So that's not just a US thing.
The other problem is Nokia's image these days. Whenelop first took over, he wanted to make his mark quickly, and let the world know that he understood their problems as previous management didn't. That very good. But he did it all wrong. That infamous memo he sent out has helped destroy trust in the company, and so their smartphone sales fell much more rapidly than the company haspd expected. In fact, a couple of quarters ago, they stated that. I wasn't surprised.
As I said here at the time, that memo was a major mistake, and showed a lack of understanding of business 101 principles. The memor was as follows, not in the exact words, perhaps.
"We poured oil on our burning platform (Symbian), and are now jumping into the icy sea (WP7) where we may not survive (WP7 may fail as well as Symbian has).
The words in parens are mine. This damages Nokia severely. It tells people that they screwed what they had, and what they're moving to may be screwed as well. Not very confidence building. So we've got a very unpopular WP7 being put on phones manufactured by Nokia, a company whose reputation has been almost ruined. How does that combo do well?
I think they will sell WP7 phones, but not in the number both companies expect, and need. This hurts Nokia more so than MS, who has a very large and profitable business anyway. But if this is seen as a failure for Nokia, it could be the effective finish of that company. No company can survive just making cheap phones, because there's no profit in that part of the business.
No company can survive just making cheap phones, because there's no profit in that part of the business.
Have some mercy
Thin margin business has to be carried out by some companies. I don't think all people will have or need smartphones. More than half people will keep using feature phones. But, Nokia can't make big bucks, that's for sure.
So are deep fried Mars Bars I hear.
For its part, Nokia maintains that the level of preorders in the U.K. "has been higher for Lumia than any previous handset."
Of other Nokia handsets perhaps but no way ANY other handset.
Nokia dropped the ball years ago by not being inventive, releasing too many products and not supporting them after release (sounds like most Android phones).
Have some mercy
Thin margin business has to be carried out by some companies. I don't think all people will have or need smartphones. More than half people will keep using feature phones. But, Nokia can't make big bucks, that's for sure.
Sorry, but various studies have shown that cheap phones are like cheap computers, either they lose money, or at best, break even. The problem that Nokia has is that local companies in China and even India now, are moving in on their cheap phone business and taking business from that. Apple and various Android vendors are taking the profitable high end smartphone business away, and that gives them problems. If you look at their financials, you will see many problems.
Do you know that Nokia makes over 200 different phones? Most sell in relatively small numbers.
They are firing large numbers of people, closing factories, shutting down internal software development; all bad news.
Twenty years ago, Motorola seemed unassailable. They were one of the biggest, most advanced technology companies, and for years, the biggest cell phone manufacturer. But look what happened to them since.
Nokia is on that track. Even Nokia Siemens, their industrial networking manufacturing arm is in big trouble. This is a company in serious decline.
Remember, just a few years ago they had 60% of the worlds smartphone market, but now it's below 17%, and shrinking. This is where they make their profits, or used to, as they aren't making a profit now.