Why is this so hard to imagine for some of you folks out there?
Read your comments carefully. They are the EXACT same comments I read before the iPhone came out... and the iPad. EXACTLY!
Did Apple... or did they not... just recently, turn a mature industry completely upside down with only 1 (ONE!) presentation?! The iPhone. In an industry that they would NEVER have success in is what we read over and over.
In less than 4 years... it is "The Phone" that every single manufacturer has to match and beat to be called relevant; carriers pay small fortunes just to be able to sell it; and people wait in lines for days to get their hands on one!
iPad is in a market by itself. Everything else is "just a tablet".
Way back when: iPod... and still holding over 80% of the market.
Very recently: the ultra portable notebook... everything else is "just a netbook" Intel and MS be damned!
Geez!
How many times does Apple need to prove that they are the ones to watch? Could they fail? Possibly... but I'm not going to be the fool that bets against them any time soon.
+1 and I'd even go as far to say Europeans should move out of the Bond markets and into AAPL
What you're talking with HTPCs, game consoles, DVRs, media extenders et al. aren't a single market. It's like lumping all iPhone accessories into the same market simply because they use the 30-pin dock connector.
Should I change to DigitalclipsX? Is there something you know we don't?
p.s. I'm guessing at the top of the mountain no one else was there.
p.p.s. .... yet the desire for recognition remains grasshopper.
There is a race, and while no clear winner is emerging, Apple is somewhere off the back of the pack.
DLNA is clearly a winning technology that puts all non Apple products at advantage. Android/Microsoft tablet/devices can move video to Living room screens.
DLNA is clearly winning? What? The most confusing way to exchange media across sometimes incompatible DLNA devices?
Quote:
Xbox is is turning into a full fledged entertainment delivering games, movies, streaming services, internet to near 60 Million living rooms.
Wooo...60M living rooms. Yeah, okay, I'm to go out on a limb here and say that 60M is not an insurmountable early lead for someone like Apple. Or Samsung. Or Sony. Or Google. Or...anyone in this horse race.
Quote:
I am also part of the HTPC crowd and Apple is way behind on this as well. WMC is decent DVR and you have a wide array of Windows HTPCs you can buy or build. Apple really doesn't have a credible HTPC and AFAIK they have no equivalent to Media Center software.
Because the height of the HTPC was what? 2006? Seriously, when I can buy a Roku and a blu-ray player or PS3 why the hell do I want to muck around with a HTPC.
Quote:
If Apples answer is a TV, they have lost it IMO. That is low margin and will be low volume, they will be dead in the living room.
Apple's answer is likely iOS related. And we agree that it's likely widespread adoption of AirPlay.
If they only get Vizio, Samsung and LG aboard that's probably good enough. AirPlay beats the crap out of DLNA in terms of ease of use.
Why pay $1000+ for these features, forcing a person to buy a new TV, instead of just selling a box that provides the features for $100?
Apple wants to sell you an inter-connected eco system. Why sell a $100 box that you plug into a Samsung/Sony/etc TV when you can keep people in the eco system by selling them an Apple Television.
Apple wants to sell you an inter-connected eco system. Why sell a $100 box that you plug into a Samsung/Sony/etc TV when you can keep people in the eco system by selling them an Apple Television.
… Why waste billions of dollars to make televisions when you can make a box that is so good absolutely no one even so much as thinks about using anyone else's software?
Look, Apple already has control over absolutely everything possible in the HDTV realm. It's not hardware fragmentation to let everyone else make the TVs.
Apple knows the resolution. Apple knows the cable to connect the devices. Apple will have control over what hardware pushes the software. It's all taken care of.
I believe you're missing the point. Example: In my living room I have a TV, a Stereo, a Blu-Ray player, a cable box, and probably something else I can't remember. They all have remotes. They cover the top of the coffee table and my wife wants to stand me up against the wall and throw them at me.
In the master bedroom there is a TV and an Apple TV. There are two remotes. If the volume controls were on the Apple Remote, there would be only one remote with a grand total of five buttons. My wife loves it. ONE remote, THREE buttons (plus the other with the volume controls).
Put on your seat belts. Apple is about to do to TV's what they did to phones. Sure, they may have single digits of market share, but they will have more than half of the profits. And, at most FIVE buttons!
I think they will have something like a Wii controller or maybe you can just point at the screen and make a cursor move and control the TV like that.
… Why waste billions of dollars to make televisions when you can make a box that is so good absolutely no one even so much as things about using anyone else's software?
Look, Apple already has control over absolutely everything possible in the HDTV realm. It's not hardware fragmentation to let everyone else make the TVs.
Apple knows the resolution. Apple knows the cable to connect the devices. Apple will have control over what hardware pushes the software. It's all taken care of.
I just had a vision of a family video conference over two 96" Apple HDTVs on opposites sides of the Planet ... then realized I saw this faked in a 'look at the next century expo' in EPCOT 30 years ago only one was on Mars .
I'm fairly technical, and I had a bugger of a time getting the aspect ratio fixed on my neighbor's TV, as that can be controlled by whatever box is plugged into it. You really think remotes for TVs don't need fixing? They are a disaster and far too complex for most people to access anything but the simplest functions. Licensing software doesn't fix either of these issues. I would like to see, however, how Steve "cracked" the problem with cable boxes and the go to market strategy.
I concur that. I hate almost every aspect of TV interface.
If Apple does to TV what they did to smartphones, it will be a hit.
I surely will buy a bunch of it for our offices. We did so, I remember,
with the iPhone, waiting 9 month in 2006, to replace our lousy
Apple wants to sell you an inter-connected eco system. Why sell a $100 box that you plug into a Samsung/Sony/etc TV when you can keep people in the eco system by selling them an Apple Television.
I can't see Apple entering this market seriously unless they have a sound end-to-end solution; combining an AppleTV and HDTV isn't it. The problem has always been how Apple's HEC solution will keep you in the Apple ecosystem. Unless they have a way to get you the same content you already have/want it's won't be anything more than a hobby.
In the US video content from iTS is still rather limited and costly, but you being in the UK have less.
Note that I write "HEC solution" because creating a TV doesn't solve anything that an Apple-made A/V receiver solution couldn't solve, sans an embedded FaceTime camera. you plug in the TV's HDMI and power source to the receiver output and all your other HEC appliances into the receiver's input and the AppleTV is becomes the orchestrator without Apple selling a huge device in stores, without limiting the display panel type, cost and size options, which then doesn't limit the user base to just Apple fans.
Wooo...60M living rooms. Yeah, okay, I'm to go out on a limb here and say that 60M is not an insurmountable early lead for someone like Apple. Or Samsung. Or Sony. Or Google. Or...anyone in this horse race.
Vs about 1 Million Apple TVs and it took three years and Apple dropping the price to $99 to get to 1 Million. The would be lucky to sell 100000 TVs/year if they try to go it alone and produce an actual TV set. That would only take them about 600 years to catch up with the Xbox lead.
Quote:
Because the height of the HTPC was what? 2006? Seriously, when I can buy a Roku and a blu-ray player or PS3 why the hell do I want to muck around with a HTPC.
Why mess with streaming when I can just play anything directly on my PC connected to my TV. It isn't for everyone, but it works better than any of the streaming solution I have seen at friends homes.
What you're talking with HTPCs, game consoles, DVRs, media extenders et al. aren't a single market. It's like lumping all iPhone accessories into the same market simply because they use the 30-pin dock connector.
Do you think that means Apple TV is winning in the market?
Poor Apple, not even in the top 10, down at 14th place.
You don't have to add anyone's market share. Xbox 360 has sold over 50 Million Units and is fast becoming the Living room platform, by comparison, Apple TV is around 1 Million.
Edit: To clear any confusion, I was pointing out that Amazon is not a good indicator of "Marketshare" by showing how absurdly wrong they get it on tablets, which I assumed everyone would catch due to how absurd the comparison is and how uncontested Apple's lead in tablets is. Apparently that was too subtle for some.
Poor Apple, not even in the top 10, down at 14th place.
You don't have to add anyone's market share. Xbox 360 has sold over 50 Million Units and is fast becoming the Living room platform, by comparison, Apple TV is around 1 Million.
1) The AppleTV has topped this list for years.
2) Most people know not of any other device in this market. Even you have to switch to the game console market to make a comparison.
3) The iPad 2 has 18 different SKUs which dilute it's sales ranking on Amazon as a product.
4) If you're someone who wants or has a game console the XBOX 360 and PS3 are great options, but you were incorrectly placing products in disparate categories to prove a fallacious point. Imagine if Apple were to count all iPads and iPhones in the PMP market simply because they have iPod apps in them, or count the iPod Touch or iPad in the smartphone market simply because you can make Skype calls. I bet you'd have a conniption over that.
The only product that does not carry an Apple premium is the iPad. Macs and iPhones are definitely more expensive than what competing venders offer. To think otherwise is to delude yourself. Yes, Apple products are of much higher quality. But that is not an argument that the Apple premium does not exist. It partially explains why it does exist.
And the first reports of a new Apple TV, at least those that followed Mr. Isaacson's book, included speculation of the contraption costing two or three times more than today's LCD models.
Let's face it, if the company does get into the TV market, we know its gonna charge more than what other companies are only because the other companies are losing money on their TVs.
Does Apple lose money on any of its products?
Can you list alternative products from other manufacturers of the same spec and materials for less money. Not a beige box equivalent but like for like.
Poor Apple, not even in the top 10, down at 14th place.
You don't have to add anyone's market share. Xbox 360 has sold over 50 Million Units and is fast becoming the Living room platform, by comparison, Apple TV is around 1 Million.
Do you think Xbox is winning in the gaming department? There are over 200 million iOS devices sold compared to 50 million 360's.
You can't argue with those figures can you, it plays games, therefore it's devices must be competing in the same space.
Btw Apple sold a total of 2 million Apple TV 2's when they last reported the figures For the 2nd fiscal quarter of 2011. (that does not include any sales of the first gen devices)
Do you think Xbox is winning in the gaming department? There are over 200 million iOS devices sold compared to 50 million 360's.
You can't argue with those figures can you, it plays games, therefore it's devices must be competing in the same space.
With AirPlay epitomizing the "It just Works" philosophy.
Why isn't the XBOX 360 touted as winning when it's slowest selling game console of the bunch. Neck-and neck with the PS3, which are both well behind the Wii?
PS: There are some recent articles about what people are doing while in the living room. The living room has moved from only being in the HEC to the couch, and Apple already owns the living room as a whole with its iPod Touch, iPhone and iPad. What they don't own is the HEC.
Comments
Why is this so hard to imagine for some of you folks out there?
Read your comments carefully. They are the EXACT same comments I read before the iPhone came out... and the iPad. EXACTLY!
Did Apple... or did they not... just recently, turn a mature industry completely upside down with only 1 (ONE!) presentation?! The iPhone. In an industry that they would NEVER have success in is what we read over and over.
In less than 4 years... it is "The Phone" that every single manufacturer has to match and beat to be called relevant; carriers pay small fortunes just to be able to sell it; and people wait in lines for days to get their hands on one!
iPad is in a market by itself. Everything else is "just a tablet".
Way back when: iPod... and still holding over 80% of the market.
Very recently: the ultra portable notebook... everything else is "just a netbook" Intel and MS be damned!
Geez!
How many times does Apple need to prove that they are the ones to watch? Could they fail? Possibly... but I'm not going to be the fool that bets against them any time soon.
+1 and I'd even go as far to say Europeans should move out of the Bond markets and into AAPL
Miniscule marketshare? All signs point to Apple have the largest marketshare since they intoduced the AppleTV in 2007.
- http://www.amazon.com/gp/bestsellers...rsr_e_1_4_last
What you're talking with HTPCs, game consoles, DVRs, media extenders et al. aren't a single market. It's like lumping all iPhone accessories into the same market simply because they use the 30-pin dock connector.Should I change to DigitalclipsX? Is there something you know we don't?
p.s. I'm guessing at the top of the mountain no one else was there.
p.p.s. .... yet the desire for recognition remains grasshopper.
There is a race, and while no clear winner is emerging, Apple is somewhere off the back of the pack.
DLNA is clearly a winning technology that puts all non Apple products at advantage. Android/Microsoft tablet/devices can move video to Living room screens.
DLNA is clearly winning? What? The most confusing way to exchange media across sometimes incompatible DLNA devices?
Xbox is is turning into a full fledged entertainment delivering games, movies, streaming services, internet to near 60 Million living rooms.
Wooo...60M living rooms. Yeah, okay, I'm to go out on a limb here and say that 60M is not an insurmountable early lead for someone like Apple. Or Samsung. Or Sony. Or Google. Or...anyone in this horse race.
I am also part of the HTPC crowd and Apple is way behind on this as well. WMC is decent DVR and you have a wide array of Windows HTPCs you can buy or build. Apple really doesn't have a credible HTPC and AFAIK they have no equivalent to Media Center software.
Because the height of the HTPC was what? 2006? Seriously, when I can buy a Roku and a blu-ray player or PS3 why the hell do I want to muck around with a HTPC.
If Apples answer is a TV, they have lost it IMO. That is low margin and will be low volume, they will be dead in the living room.
Apple's answer is likely iOS related. And we agree that it's likely widespread adoption of AirPlay.
If they only get Vizio, Samsung and LG aboard that's probably good enough. AirPlay beats the crap out of DLNA in terms of ease of use.
Should I change to DigitalclipsX? Is there something you know we don't?
p.s. I'm guessing at the top of the mountain no one else was there.
p.p.s yet the desire for recognition remains grasshopper.
You need 20,000 more posts before you are allow to do that young grasshopper
You need 20,000 more posts before you are allow to do that young grasshopper
Ah, I see wise one
But shouldn't that be 'SolipismXX' then? (bar over X)
DVD, Blu-Ray, and PayTV
Nah, those are the incumbents destined for disruption. Or so we hope eh?
Why pay $1000+ for these features, forcing a person to buy a new TV, instead of just selling a box that provides the features for $100?
Apple wants to sell you an inter-connected eco system. Why sell a $100 box that you plug into a Samsung/Sony/etc TV when you can keep people in the eco system by selling them an Apple Television.
Apple wants to sell you an inter-connected eco system. Why sell a $100 box that you plug into a Samsung/Sony/etc TV when you can keep people in the eco system by selling them an Apple Television.
… Why waste billions of dollars to make televisions when you can make a box that is so good absolutely no one even so much as thinks about using anyone else's software?
Look, Apple already has control over absolutely everything possible in the HDTV realm. It's not hardware fragmentation to let everyone else make the TVs.
Apple knows the resolution. Apple knows the cable to connect the devices. Apple will have control over what hardware pushes the software. It's all taken care of.
I believe you're missing the point. Example: In my living room I have a TV, a Stereo, a Blu-Ray player, a cable box, and probably something else I can't remember. They all have remotes. They cover the top of the coffee table and my wife wants to stand me up against the wall and throw them at me.
In the master bedroom there is a TV and an Apple TV. There are two remotes. If the volume controls were on the Apple Remote, there would be only one remote with a grand total of five buttons. My wife loves it. ONE remote, THREE buttons (plus the other with the volume controls).
Put on your seat belts. Apple is about to do to TV's what they did to phones. Sure, they may have single digits of market share, but they will have more than half of the profits. And, at most FIVE buttons!
I think they will have something like a Wii controller or maybe you can just point at the screen and make a cursor move and control the TV like that.
… Why waste billions of dollars to make televisions when you can make a box that is so good absolutely no one even so much as things about using anyone else's software?
Look, Apple already has control over absolutely everything possible in the HDTV realm. It's not hardware fragmentation to let everyone else make the TVs.
Apple knows the resolution. Apple knows the cable to connect the devices. Apple will have control over what hardware pushes the software. It's all taken care of.
I just had a vision of a family video conference over two 96" Apple HDTVs on opposites sides of the Planet ... then realized I saw this faked in a 'look at the next century expo' in EPCOT 30 years ago only one was on Mars .
I'm fairly technical, and I had a bugger of a time getting the aspect ratio fixed on my neighbor's TV, as that can be controlled by whatever box is plugged into it. You really think remotes for TVs don't need fixing? They are a disaster and far too complex for most people to access anything but the simplest functions. Licensing software doesn't fix either of these issues. I would like to see, however, how Steve "cracked" the problem with cable boxes and the go to market strategy.
I concur that. I hate almost every aspect of TV interface.
If Apple does to TV what they did to smartphones, it will be a hit.
I surely will buy a bunch of it for our offices. We did so, I remember,
with the iPhone, waiting 9 month in 2006, to replace our lousy
Motorola and Sony Ericsson with the iPhone.
Apple wants to sell you an inter-connected eco system. Why sell a $100 box that you plug into a Samsung/Sony/etc TV when you can keep people in the eco system by selling them an Apple Television.
I can't see Apple entering this market seriously unless they have a sound end-to-end solution; combining an AppleTV and HDTV isn't it. The problem has always been how Apple's HEC solution will keep you in the Apple ecosystem. Unless they have a way to get you the same content you already have/want it's won't be anything more than a hobby.
In the US video content from iTS is still rather limited and costly, but you being in the UK have less.
Note that I write "HEC solution" because creating a TV doesn't solve anything that an Apple-made A/V receiver solution couldn't solve, sans an embedded FaceTime camera. you plug in the TV's HDMI and power source to the receiver output and all your other HEC appliances into the receiver's input and the AppleTV is becomes the orchestrator without Apple selling a huge device in stores, without limiting the display panel type, cost and size options, which then doesn't limit the user base to just Apple fans.
Wooo...60M living rooms. Yeah, okay, I'm to go out on a limb here and say that 60M is not an insurmountable early lead for someone like Apple. Or Samsung. Or Sony. Or Google. Or...anyone in this horse race.
Vs about 1 Million Apple TVs and it took three years and Apple dropping the price to $99 to get to 1 Million. The would be lucky to sell 100000 TVs/year if they try to go it alone and produce an actual TV set. That would only take them about 600 years to catch up with the Xbox lead.
Because the height of the HTPC was what? 2006? Seriously, when I can buy a Roku and a blu-ray player or PS3 why the hell do I want to muck around with a HTPC.
Why mess with streaming when I can just play anything directly on my PC connected to my TV. It isn't for everyone, but it works better than any of the streaming solution I have seen at friends homes.
Miniscule marketshare? All signs point to Apple have the largest marketshare since they intoduced the AppleTV in 2007.
- http://www.amazon.com/gp/bestsellers...rsr_e_1_4_last
What you're talking with HTPCs, game consoles, DVRs, media extenders et al. aren't a single market. It's like lumping all iPhone accessories into the same market simply because they use the 30-pin dock connector.Do you think that means Apple TV is winning in the market?
Look at best selling tablets:
http://www.amazon.com/Best-Sellers-E...nav_e_2_541966
Poor Apple, not even in the top 10, down at 14th place.
You don't have to add anyone's market share. Xbox 360 has sold over 50 Million Units and is fast becoming the Living room platform, by comparison, Apple TV is around 1 Million.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Edit: To clear any confusion, I was pointing out that Amazon is not a good indicator of "Marketshare" by showing how absurdly wrong they get it on tablets, which I assumed everyone would catch due to how absurd the comparison is and how uncontested Apple's lead in tablets is. Apparently that was too subtle for some.
Do you think that means Apple TV is winning in the market?
Look at best selling tablets:
http://www.amazon.com/Best-Sellers-E...nav_e_2_541966
Poor Apple, not even in the top 10, down at 14th place.
You don't have to add anyone's market share. Xbox 360 has sold over 50 Million Units and is fast becoming the Living room platform, by comparison, Apple TV is around 1 Million.
1) The AppleTV has topped this list for years.
2) Most people know not of any other device in this market. Even you have to switch to the game console market to make a comparison.
3) The iPad 2 has 18 different SKUs which dilute it's sales ranking on Amazon as a product.
4) If you're someone who wants or has a game console the XBOX 360 and PS3 are great options, but you were incorrectly placing products in disparate categories to prove a fallacious point. Imagine if Apple were to count all iPads and iPhones in the PMP market simply because they have iPod apps in them, or count the iPod Touch or iPad in the smartphone market simply because you can make Skype calls. I bet you'd have a conniption over that.
The only product that does not carry an Apple premium is the iPad. Macs and iPhones are definitely more expensive than what competing venders offer. To think otherwise is to delude yourself. Yes, Apple products are of much higher quality. But that is not an argument that the Apple premium does not exist. It partially explains why it does exist.
And the first reports of a new Apple TV, at least those that followed Mr. Isaacson's book, included speculation of the contraption costing two or three times more than today's LCD models.
Let's face it, if the company does get into the TV market, we know its gonna charge more than what other companies are only because the other companies are losing money on their TVs.
Does Apple lose money on any of its products?
Can you list alternative products from other manufacturers of the same spec and materials for less money. Not a beige box equivalent but like for like.
Do you think that means Apple TV is winning in the market?
Look at best selling tablets:
http://www.amazon.com/Best-Sellers-E...nav_e_2_541966
Poor Apple, not even in the top 10, down at 14th place.
You don't have to add anyone's market share. Xbox 360 has sold over 50 Million Units and is fast becoming the Living room platform, by comparison, Apple TV is around 1 Million.
Do you think Xbox is winning in the gaming department? There are over 200 million iOS devices sold compared to 50 million 360's.
You can't argue with those figures can you, it plays games, therefore it's devices must be competing in the same space.
Btw Apple sold a total of 2 million Apple TV 2's when they last reported the figures For the 2nd fiscal quarter of 2011. (that does not include any sales of the first gen devices)
Look at best selling tablets:
http://www.amazon.com/Best-Sellers-E...nav_e_2_541966
Poor Apple, not even in the top 10, down at 14th place.
WOW. Just... WOW. What a complete idiot.
Take a REAL look at that list, fool. You think those listings are in order of sales? SOME OF THOSE PRODUCTS HAVE NOT EVEN SHIPPED.
Moron.
Do you think Xbox is winning in the gaming department? There are over 200 million iOS devices sold compared to 50 million 360's.
You can't argue with those figures can you, it plays games, therefore it's devices must be competing in the same space.
With AirPlay epitomizing the "It just Works" philosophy.
Why isn't the XBOX 360 touted as winning when it's slowest selling game console of the bunch. Neck-and neck with the PS3, which are both well behind the Wii?
PS: There are some recent articles about what people are doing while in the living room. The living room has moved from only being in the HEC to the couch, and Apple already owns the living room as a whole with its iPod Touch, iPhone and iPad. What they don't own is the HEC.
WOW. Just... WOW. What a complete idiot.
Take a REAL look at that list, fool. You think those listings are in order of sales? SOME OF THOSE PRODUCTS HAVE NOT EVEN SHIPPED.
Woosh, totally going over idiots head.
Dear idiot, I was pointing out how utterly useless Amazon is for tracking this kind of thing after someone else tried to use Amazon as Proof.