North Carolina locals question benefits of Apple's $1 billion server farm

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  • Reply 101 of 288
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by AdamC View Post


    And it damned funny to hear over the BBC someone saying the 1% of the richest should share their wealth with the have nots.



    I actually agree with that to a point. Many of the richest people end up paying pennies in taxes because of tax cuts etc that aren't given to the lower levels. And to me that is unfair. they should receive the same basic cost of living cuts as the folks that make low 5 figures and should pay the same % in taxes. They can afford to cut a check for $1 million dollars out of their $1 billion dollar bank accounts a lot more than Joe Public can cut for $2000 out of his $50k account.



    That excessive tax cutting for the rich is part of why I'm inclined to support dropping income tax for a high flat rate sales tax or some combo of the two. Sure the rich will gripe about having to pay 20% sales tax for their new car but come on, it's a $200k car. If you can afford that then you can likely afford the sales tax a few times over.
  • Reply 102 of 288
    I don't understand what the local expected. If you own a furniture store, a gas station, or some other local business, Apple is not going to hire you, and put you to work in their data center, but wouldn't the people they did hire need furniture, gas, food, etc? Wouldn't that money go back to the local economy?
  • Reply 103 of 288
    I'm amazed at the Post's article. The reporter certainly didn't ask the right questions. For example, did you see any benefit from the construction that has occurred? Do you anticipate any from the additional construction planned? Did you receive indirect benefits, i.e. people who were directly paid for working on the construction or at the operating facility spending their wages in a way that benefited you?



    I'm not amazed at the responses of the NC people interviewed but astounded at the ones I see here. It's a data center, not a manufacturing facility. I'm in an industry that has spent years developing the software and services needed for unattended operation. What else did anyone expect from Apple?



    I suspect that a lot of those fifty jobs are relatively unskilled, e.g. guards, cleaning, maintenance. Those jobs were likely filled from locals and their wages help the economy there.
  • Reply 104 of 288
    I guess that locals envisioned large rows of filing cabinets and huge numbers of people to pick up the files in carts to be run to another location where football field sized offices were filled with people who would type it into the 'internet' for all the users.
  • Reply 105 of 288
    These comments - Wow.....
  • Reply 106 of 288
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Oflife View Post


    It is that attitude which is why the West is in the mess it is. Liberal thinking that says a) Employ people, even if you do not need or cannot afford them. b) Loan people money for items or property they havn't a hope in hell of repaying.



  • Reply 107 of 288
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by freediverx View Post


    I agree that it makes no sense for Apple to hire additional people they don't need. However, as it often happens, local politicians granted Apple ridiculous tax breaks in exchange for... what, exactly?



    This is the same old story that has played itself out at both the local and national level. Politicians and their corporate sponsors push the idea that businesses must be given tax breaks in order to create more jobs, except there's absolutely no strings attached that they actually do so, so it's nothing but corporate welfare. When new jobs are actually created they're usually small in number, low paying and in no way tied to whatever tax breaks the corporation received.



    Considering Apple is one of (if not the) largest and most profitable companies on the planet, you have to wonder why they need any tax breaks or loopholes when there's no payback in exchange. Now I'm a huge Apple fan and I don't think they're doing anything wrong - as a business they're trying to minimize costs and maximize profits - but this is a fine example of why this tired old story needs to be put to rest and corporate welfare needs to end immediately.



    Everyone keeps talking about ridiculous tax breaks. Please tell us what those ridiculous tax breaks are. If property taxes were reduced in this small town, it looks like it worked out for them.



    Oh and by the way, have you been to China lately? I was there in April. I can assure you that the Chinese Central government is all about ridiculous tax breaks to spur local growth. If anything the U.S. needs more of these "ridiculous tax breaks" if we want to keep jobs in the U.S.
  • Reply 108 of 288
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by landilevente View Post


    Apple should hire people to provide power to the data center with bicycles. 1000s of them of course.



    LOL. That's how they do it in China.
  • Reply 109 of 288
    mstonemstone Posts: 11,510member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ash471 View Post


    LOL. That's how they do it in China.



    Unfortunately they depend on mostly coal fired electricity generation. Because the power grid in China is so unreliable, it is quite common for factories to build their own coal fired generators on site thus contributing to the awful air quality. I believe I read that they bring something like 50 new coal fired generators online every week in China.
  • Reply 110 of 288
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by marvfox View Post


    You are telling me 50 jobs that is all Apple offered. A dam disgrace indeed. This state is high in unemployment to begin with.Tim Cook and Apple better get their act together.



    Did they think there would be hundreds of laborers to maintain a server farm? If so, then they are truly ignorant of technology. It takes a lot to build a place that is designed to be automated, but once it's operational it's a small team.
  • Reply 111 of 288
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by marvfox View Post


    You are telling me 50 jobs that is all Apple offered. A dam disgrace indeed. This state is high in unemployment to begin with.Tim Cook and Apple better get their act together.



    There's very little information in this article. What do you know that leads you to call this a disgrace?



    Do modern data centers require much in the way of on-site bodies? Were the residents of the town deceived? Did Apple's reps lead them to expect more than they've gotten? Were there bribes or other unethical tactics leading to the locating of the facility to begin with? How predatory or irresponsible are Apple's practices relative to other companies?



    If your objection is to corporations in general, so long as we permit such legal quasi-people to exist as such, it makes no more sense to condemn them for profiteering than it does to attack a knife for being sharp. Just as Americans have the government we permit, we have the corporations we deserve.
  • Reply 112 of 288
    mstonemstone Posts: 11,510member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer View Post


    Did they think there would be hundreds of laborers to maintain a server farm? If so, then they are truly ignorant of technology. It takes a lot to build a place that is designed to be automated, but once it's operational it's a small team.



    There are probably 50 more gardening, maintenance and janitorial jobs that are not Apple employees. Of course those duties are provided by a crew of Latin American immigrants.
  • Reply 113 of 288
    ahmlcoahmlco Posts: 432member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by freediverx View Post


    The 50 direct jobs probably didn't go to any locals and where are these 250 "indirect jobs" defined? How will a data center, that practically runs itself with just 50 technically trained employees, benefit local unemployment rates when locals are neither qualified for, being hired for, nor trained for these jobs?



    Because 50 workers with good jobs buy groceries. Buy homes. Buy furniture and appliances to go in them. Buy clothes. Eat out. Buy gasoline. Go to the movies. Pay sales tax.



    And those local businesses, in turn, spend the money that THEY received on the same things.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by freediverx View Post


    As opposed to the 100% of property taxes that would be paid by the former owners?



    On what was FARM LAND. Different zoning, different rates.



    Try using your head for something other than a hat rack...
  • Reply 114 of 288
    solipsismxsolipsismx Posts: 19,566member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mstone View Post


    There are probably 50 more gardening, maintenance and janitorial jobs that are not Apple employees. Of course those duties are provided by a crew of Latin American immigrants.



  • Reply 115 of 288
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Oflife View Post


    It is that attitude which is why the West is in the mess it is. Liberal thinking that says a) Employ people, even if you do not need or cannot afford them. b) Loan people money for items or property they havn't a hope in hell of repaying.



    Further down the road, the wheels then start to fall off. As is happening now as overpaid council staff (here in UK anyway) are sapping up money that could otherwise pay for actual services.



    Apple can do what they like, they are a private company. All that matters is they are environmentally responsible & treat their workers well, not to mention, help in the community. Perhaps by funding a local bus service for the elderly or similar.



    Ya, N. Carolina is a real hot bed of liberalism.
  • Reply 116 of 288
    I live in Newton. Next town over from Maiden. We are all not furniture builders here. I'm an IT pro who works for a well established company.The skilled laborers for the tech industry are here also. Sure it isn't silicon valley here but the tech folks are here. And i can say that when Apple built the data center, they did not post any job openings here. I checked. When they built the building, alot was outsourced to the lowest bidder. Not from this area. I'm not saying this is a good or bad thing but...

    Get your facts straight and not just speculate.



    BTW....it sure does look like Fort Knox when you drive by it though.....They made sure you can't even see it from the highway anymore..



    you can also read this. Hickory paper next town over.



    http://www2.hickoryrecord.com/busine...den-ar-441096/
  • Reply 117 of 288
    apple ][apple ][ Posts: 8,691member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Doctor David View Post


    Ya, N. Carolina is a real hot bed of liberalism.



    It is indeed. The facts speak for themselves. And the liberals there got what they wanted, so they have no right to whine about any jobs or lack of jobs.
  • Reply 118 of 288
    jmmxjmmx Posts: 341member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by freediverx View Post


    Unless those 50 new jobs went to locals and paid about $1M each, I don't see how they offset the $46 million in tax breaks, not to mention the huge cuts in personal and property taxes, that will impact the residents of the town and state.



    If they have a 50% tax break, and that break equals $46 million, then the amount of taxes that Apple will be paying is also $46 M. That is $46 M that the local government did not have before Apple moved in - not to mention the 50 new jobs and scores of construction jobs. Would the county rather not have that income? $46M pays for a lot of teachers.
  • Reply 119 of 288
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by freediverx View Post


    The land sale is a one time deal, and only benefitted a few landowners. Do you have any data to show that the yearly taxes on the land will exceed the amount that would have been paid by the former landowners, and if so that this increase offsets all the tax breaks?



    A. So what? Good for the landowners. That's why you buy land. whats with this "if everybody in the commune doesn't benefit then nobody should" attitude?



    B. based on NC property taxes http://www.dornc.com/publications/20...tytaxrates.pdf the land will be worth more with Apple on it than as farmland. Even at Apple's tax discount, they are contributing more tax revenue to NC than the land was generating before.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by freediverx View Post


    How does the sale of electricity benefit the residents of the town or state? If anything, I'd think it would drive up the cost of energy.



    What do you mean?



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by freediverx View Post


    The construction jobs are, again, a one time deal.



    Again, good for them. They were a zero-time deal without Apple, weren't they?



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by freediverx View Post


    The data center is practically autonomous, with only 50 employees. There's no massive hiring of locals nor the local business benefits of serving an army of data center workers since there's only 50 employees.



    The onus to qualify for the jobs at the new-fangled tech place is on the residents. And, yes, there will be landscaping, maintenance, and other miscellaneous jobs to come. Again, 50 jobs is better than no jobs last time I checked.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by freediverx View Post


    At what point do we consider the downsides of the tax breaks on education and social services that benefit all the residents of the town and state?



    umm, never? Since there apparently aren't any legitimate ones to be considered? Since you specify "all" the residents of the town and state, and spend so much time seeing this glass as half full, you sound like you espouse "all" or nothing thinking. Defaulting to education and social services suggests that your first thought is for those with their hands out.
  • Reply 120 of 288
    mstonemstone Posts: 11,510member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post


    It is indeed. The facts speak for themselves. And the liberals there got what they wanted, so they have no right to whine about any jobs or lack of jobs.



    By liberals you mean the college educated elected officials.



    Moonshine distilling does not qualify as a legitimate local business and although most are completely tax exempt it is not due to conservative political policies which generally have the support of the uneducated middle class of NC. For most reasonable people the Apple facility represents a net gain for the state's economy.
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