North Carolina locals question benefits of Apple's $1 billion server farm

145791015

Comments

  • Reply 121 of 288
    andysolandysol Posts: 2,506member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by charlituna View Post


    That excessive tax cutting for the rich is part of why I'm inclined to support dropping income tax for a high flat rate sales tax or some combo of the two. Sure the rich will gripe about having to pay 20% sales tax for their new car but come on, it's a $200k car. If you can afford that then you can likely afford the sales tax a few times over.



    It's called the fair tax. And anyone who looks at it thinks it's the best (except CPAs who deal specifically with individuals and IRS agents- because they'd be out of work).
  • Reply 122 of 288
    apple ][apple ][ Posts: 8,691member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mstone View Post


    By liberals you mean the college educated elected officials.



    No. By liberals, I mean that the majority of people there voted for a college educated liberal who promised them jobs. Sucks to be them.
  • Reply 123 of 288
    andysolandysol Posts: 2,506member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mstone View Post


    By liberals you mean the college educated elected officials.



    Moonshine distilling does not qualify as a legitimate local business and although most are completely tax exempt it is not due to conservative political policies which generally have the support of the uneducated middle class of NC. For most reasonable people the Apple facility represents a net gain for the state's economy.



    Because most business owners aren't republicans?

    http://www.libertarianrepublican.net...op-by.html?m=1



    Or because the top 10%, who, obviously, made their fortunes on moonshine and ignorance, arent republicans either?



    Not gonna start a republican vs democrat thing- but your comments are dumb dumb dumby dumb dumb. (said it like that so you'd get it)
  • Reply 124 of 288
    tylerk36tylerk36 Posts: 1,037member
    What did the town expect in the first place? When the facility was being built there were jobs galore. Now that it is complete they complain? Apple will be expanding to install a solar complex and that is gonna create jobs as well. You can't please all of the people can you. I say Apple has done nothing wrong here.
  • Reply 125 of 288
    jmmxjmmx Posts: 341member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by AdamC View Post


    And it is kind of funny to blame the company for not offering employment when it is not necessary to do so and these people should read Atlas Shrugged. And it damned funny to hear over the BBC someone saying the 1% of the richest should share their wealth with the have nots.



    An economy generates wealth. Government policies affect (note affect, not determine) how that wealth is distributed. There is no wealth distribution that is "free" in a complex economy. Examples are minimum wage laws. Health policies also influence what real wealth working people have.



    Another example of how government actions affect wealth distribution are the actions of former Fed Chair Alan Greenspan. While an advocate of laissez faire and proponent of Ayn Rand, in the 1990s he was very quick to raise interest rates whenever the unemployment rate fell. He did this in order to "cool off the economy." This effectively insured that workers would never become scarce enough to require an increase in wages. Thus, whatever the profits were for a company, they were never under pressure to raise wages, i.e. sharing the profits with the workers. Thus Americans' real wages shrank for most non-professional workers, while more and more profits went to CEOs and stock holders (i.e. the top 1%) While some of this happened under Clinton, we should remember that Greenspan was first. appointed Federal Reserve chairman by President Ronald Reagan in August 1987.





    The the 30+ of Reaganomics (aka Voodoo economics, trickle down theory) has seen a massive transfer of wealth from the majority of Americans to the upper 5% of the population. This is the right-wing corporate social engineering.
  • Reply 126 of 288
    apple ][apple ][ Posts: 8,691member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by tylerk36 View Post


    I say Apple has done nothing wrong here.



    Of course not. Apple hasn't done a single thing here that is worthy of criticism.



    Apple doesn't owe North Carolina anything at all. They should be glad that Apple chose their state to build their new server farm in.
  • Reply 127 of 288
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post


    It is indeed. The facts speak for themselves. And the liberals there got what they wanted, so they have no right to whine about any jobs or lack of jobs.



    That's like when faux news puts a D in front of a republican reps name when they do something wrong. It's a reliably conservative a place. Here's the 2010 election results for the county. http://www.catawbacountync.gov/depts...210General.pdf
  • Reply 128 of 288
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mstone View Post


    By liberals you mean the college educated elected officials.



    Moonshine distilling does not qualify as a legitimate local business and although most are completely tax exempt it is not due to conservative political policies which generally have the support of the uneducated middle class of NC. For most reasonable people the Apple facility represents a net gain for the state's economy.



    The college educated officials seem to be mostly republican.
  • Reply 129 of 288
    mstonemstone Posts: 11,510member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post


    No. By liberals, I mean that the majority of people there voted for a college educated liberal who promised them jobs. Sucks to be them.



    It is not unreasonable to imagine that education has a lot to do with job satisfaction. If you want to improve jobs you should consider improving education. With Apple moving to NC it can only help to improve the job outlook for the long term. More high tech workers may inspire other high tech businesses to also take advantage of the local tax incentives which in turn brings better teachers, and begins to raise the level of education in the area - rinse and repeat. Eventually you begin to improve both employment opportunities and education in the area, but it doesn't happen overnight. The Apple facility is just the first step.
  • Reply 130 of 288
    We just had Facebook build an enormous data center next to Prineville, Oregon. It takes about 10 people to run the whole thing. It doesn't bring employment, but it does bring a lot of tax revenue, local business revenue from the contractors that buy and eat things as they're working on it, and it will draw more of the same from the likes of Google, Apple, etc.

    Just because it's not a HUGE positive doesn't make it a negative.
  • Reply 131 of 288
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by tenzo View Post


    I live in Newton. Next town over from Maiden. We are all not furniture builders here. I'm an IT pro who works for a well established company.The skilled laborers for the tech industry are here also. Sure it isn't silicon valley here but the tech folks are here. And i can say that when Apple built the data center, they did not post any job openings here. I checked. When they built the building, alot was outsourced to the lowest bidder. Not from this area. I'm not saying this is a good or bad thing but...

    Get your facts straight and not just speculate.



    BTW....it sure does look like Fort Knox when you drive by it though.....They made sure you can't even see it from the highway anymore..



    you can also read this. Hickory paper next town over.



    http://www2.hickoryrecord.com/busine...den-ar-441096/



    That local newspaper article appears to be rational, considered and objective...



    Seems that it might have a been a better source for the AI article... than the Washington Post article where 3 semi-negative (or neutral) opinions were conflated into a negative article.





    Hickory Daily Record: "Apple data center brings 300 jobs to Maiden"



    vs



    Washington Post: "Cloud centers bring high-tech flash but not many jobs to beaten-down towns"





    Interesting to note how North Carolina unemployment compares with other states:



    List of U.S. states by unemployment rate







    Mmmm... We here in California certainly could use that additional $4.6 million annual tax revenue!



  • Reply 132 of 288
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by AdamC View Post


    Hate to say this firstly goods assembled in the US is uncompetitive otherwise they wouldn't have use Asian companies to do so. Secondly the actions by unions will make many think twice to set up shops in the US.



    And it is kind of funny to blame the company for not offering employment when it is not necessary to do so and these people should read Atlas Shrugged. And it damned funny to hear over the BBC someone saying the 1% of the richest should share their wealth with the have nots.



    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old?s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.

    --John Rogers



    I believe I posted this here before but here it is again.
  • Reply 133 of 288
    apple ][apple ][ Posts: 8,691member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Doctor David View Post


    Here's the 2010 election results for the county.



    2008 - North Carolina - Presidential Election results



    The majority chose a liberal, just like I said.



    http://elections.nytimes.com/2008/re...-carolina.html



    Also take a look at their unemployment statistics. For some strange and mysterious reason, there is a sudden and drastic rise right around that same time, and it's only gotten higher and higher.
  • Reply 134 of 288
    With all due respect to N.C. citizens, what they are experiencing is not ?the extreme of tough?. This is not to belittle the economic and emotional toll of the recession and the demoralizing effect of unemployment, but there are various parts of the US going through worse times, not to mention numerous regions in Asia, Africa, Middle East, ... Most of these regions have never seen good times, never mind worsening blows from a recession.
  • Reply 135 of 288
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post


    2008 - North Carolina - Presidential Election results



    The majority chose a liberal, just like I said.



    http://elections.nytimes.com/2008/re...-carolina.html



    Also take a look at their unemployment statistics. For some strange and mysterious reason, there is a sudden and drastic rise right around that same time, and it's only gotten higher and higher.



    So the Dems could cause unemployment that fast? Impressive.
  • Reply 136 of 288
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Doctor David View Post


    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old?s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.

    --John Rogers



    I believe I posted this here before but here it is again.



    Don't for get the Ents.
  • Reply 137 of 288
    apple ][apple ][ Posts: 8,691member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mstone View Post


    The Apple facility is just the first step.



    Hi tech companies like Apple, Google, Amazon, Facebook etc. do not create many jobs compared to big corporations of the past. Anybody looking for these kind of companies to put many people to work doesn't really know what they're talking about.



    To put this in context, the Economist recently noted that Apple, Amazon, and Google together employ 113,000 people--which is less than 1/3rd as many as a single American success-story from the prior generation, GM, employed in 1980.



    Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/apple...#ixzz1ewHXtXBA
  • Reply 138 of 288
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Doctor David View Post


    The college educated officials seem to be mostly republican.



    Is that really true? I would be interested in seeing a reliable source for that. If true, it's fascinating. I have seen various analysis (wish I could find a source to cite on instant notice) that regions with a majority of college-educated citizens tend to vote liberal more often. That of course is a slightly different but related issue to what you're referring to. Nonetheless, I am interested in seeing a source for your info if possible.
  • Reply 139 of 288
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post


    2008 - North Carolina - Presidential Election results



    The majority chose a liberal, just like I said.



    http://elections.nytimes.com/2008/re...-carolina.html



    Also take a look at their unemployment statistics. For some strange and mysterious reason, there is a sudden and drastic rise right around that same time, and it's only gotten higher and higher.



    The president didn't broker this deal, local conservatives did.



    Wow unemployment went up right when the economy fell of a cliff. Shocking.

    Your reasoning is specious.
  • Reply 140 of 288
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post


    Hi tech companies like Apple, Google, Amazon, Facebook etc. do not create many jobs compared to big corporations of the past. Anybody looking for these kind of companies to put many people to work doesn't really know what they're talking about.



    To put this in context, the Economist recently noted that Apple, Amazon, and Google together employ 113,000 people--which is less than 1/3rd as many as a single American success-story from the prior generation, GM, employed in 1980.



    Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/apple...#ixzz1ewHXtXBA



    To that point, there was an op ed by Andy Grove (in the NY Times?) a few years ago painting a sobering but convincing picture - for every iPod or iPhone from American companies like Apple, 10 times more jobs (sometimes 100 times?) are created elsewhere than in the US. So American innovation often generates more employment abroad than at home. Americans either have to accept structural unemployment, and develop policies to cope with it, or reinvent manufacturing so that it is sustainable domestically.
Sign In or Register to comment.