With our economy in shambles, these private companies are out to use extreme measures to try and avoid paying taxes.
If you're so keen on paying taxes you don't legally have to then why don't give more money to the government.
Quote:
Originally Posted by xrayeyes
The state of NC handed out over 46 million dollars in tax incentives to one of the richest companies in the world for basically 50 jobs, and not even local ones at that.
You might want to edit your post to make it factual and not come across as sounding crazy.
PS: I just got an extra 25% off at Banana Republic because I bought "3 or more" T-shirts. Funny how those willing to spend more get additional discounts, but I know some will read that I just stole money from BR despite dropping more than $150 in the store.
Apple has been using server farms for years with their extensive iTunes Store so what could these new massive server farms be used for? I don't think iCloud or Siri are going to cut it as answers.
They also have been relying on Amazon and others for years. Perhaps this is about weaning off 3rd parties, or at least becoming less dependent. Regardless, as more devices are sold, iCloud alone will demand greater and greater investment in server farms. In fact, it's possible that the NC facility couldn't meet iCloud demands and they have had to spend more on Amazon and Microsoft.
But I do share in your excitement about the possibility that this is for something new altogether.
They HAD to put the next one on the west coast for balance. You see, millions of data requests pumping electrons out of North Carolina. If they don't do something to balance it, the country will tip into the Pacific.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider
Apple opened a massive, 500,000-square-foot data center in Maiden, N.C., earlier this year. In October, it was revealed that the company also plans to build a new solar farm opposite the data center.
At least we can guess that they won't be building a solar center in NC.
Quote:
Originally Posted by xrayeyes
The state of NC handed out over 46 million dollars in tax incentives to one of the richest companies in the world for basically 50 jobs, and not even local ones at that.
Let's say those 50 people buy 50 homes locally...which probably didn't happen. I guarantee most of them ended up in Charlotte. It's still in NC, fair enough. But, how 'bout if we had just given those 50 people $300,000 for new homes and they just immediately forked it over to the local economy in the way of builders, existing homes, etc. $1.5 million. Hmmmm, a bit better deal for us taxpayers. $1.5 mil vs $46 mil
Oh, so they buy goods locally too? Wow, I hope they spend over $315 mil over the next ten years so we can recoup our sales tax!
So, excuse me if I don't welcome this multibillion dollar industry that COSTS us taxpayers of NC, with open arms. I have an iPhone and I have Apple stock, but it still doesn't make me an Apple corporate lover....
You might start by educating yourself.
First, in spite of the tax break, Apple will be paying the state considerably more taxes than you received before. The credit has been reported as 50%, so if it's a $46 M tax break, that means that the state will be receiving $46 M in EXTRA tax revenue (although you will have to subtract out the taxes previously being charged on the farmland and forest - undoubtedly far less than $1 M). So the state gains $45 M for the next 10 years - and $90 M for the 10 years after that.
Second, your information on jobs is wrong. Apple will be creating 50 new DIRECT jobs in NC that didn't exist before. They estimate that there will be an additional 250 indirect jobs (landscaping, security, etc). 300 new jobs is enormous for a city of 3400 (probably under 2,000 total jobs.
So, in addition to the $45 M in NEW tax revenue that the state will receive, you will also get:
- 300 new jobs - all of which pay taxes and generate income that will be spent at least partially in NC
- A large number of temporary jobs to build the data center
- Purchases of goods - at least some of the items needed for the data center will be purchased locally.
- A significant number of visitors from out of town generating revenue for the area
And so on
Looking down on this deal because Apple got a discount on taxes is just plain foolish and short-sighted.
They HAD to put the next one on the west coast for balance. You see, millions of data requests pumping electrons out of North Carolina. If they don't do something to balance it, the country will tip into the Pacific.
At least we can guess that they won't be building a solar center in NC.
You might start by educating yourself.
First, in spite of the tax break, Apple will be paying the state considerably more taxes than you received before. The credit has been reported as 50%, so if it's a $46 M tax break, that means that the state will be receiving $46 M in EXTRA tax revenue (although you will have to subtract out the taxes previously being charged on the farmland and forest - undoubtedly far less than $1 M). So the state gains $45 M for the next 10 years - and $90 M for the 10 years after that.
Second, your information on jobs is wrong. Apple will be creating 50 new DIRECT jobs in NC that didn't exist before. They estimate that there will be an additional 250 indirect jobs (landscaping, security, etc). 300 new jobs is enormous for a city of 3400 (probably under 2,000 total jobs.
So, in addition to the $45 M in NEW tax revenue that the state will receive, you will also get:
- 300 new jobs - all of which pay taxes and generate income that will be spent at least partially in NC
- A large number of temporary jobs to build the data center
- Purchases of goods - at least some of the items needed for the data center will be purchased locally.
- A significant number of visitors from out of town generating revenue for the area
And so on
Looking down on this deal because Apple got a discount on taxes is just plain foolish and short-sighted.
Woopeee! 50 jobs for $46 million! 50 jobs were not given to anyone local. No one locally even knows anyone that works there.
Wooppee!...."possibly 250 more jobs". Do you think anyone from this small town will get them?
Significant number of visitors to a server farm? Seriously?
My husband owns a small business that employs 45 people. I can GUARANTEE that he pays more in taxes, and benefits the local economy more than the state of NC will see from this Apple facility for quite some time...if ever.
I'm from the area, so don't tell me how to "educate" myself from 3000 miles away...
My husband owns a small business that employs 45 people. I can GUARANTEE that he pays more in taxes, and benefits the local economy more than the state of NC will see from this Apple facility for quite some time...if ever.
Apple paid NC more in taxes last year than you and your husband will pay in taxes in your entire lifetimes.
jragosta, thanks for going to the trouble to sort through this.
Also, there's probably no way to quantify how much money flowed through local and nearby economies in the building of this project -- the construction workers, materials haulers, the engineers staying around for months, etc. To view this negatively because "rich" Apple got the customary tax incentive is pathological. Maybe if you had to put up with the pains of development like increased noise and torn up roads, you might complain, but otherwise you would look like an enemy of progress. And reason.
This story seems like a cooked-up piece of anti-Apple crap to me. The editor I used to work under would have tossed it back across the desk and said, "You didn't talk to anybody but the mom and pop hardware? You get on the phone right now and call every motel and restaurant and grocery within 50 miles and ask them about their business before and after construction. Call the state police about traffic, the gas stations, the smokehouse, I don't care who, but we're not running a story like this based on one hardware store in the middle of a dead town."
Quote:
Originally Posted by xrayeyes
The 50% tax credit was for local property taxes.
Woopeee! 50 jobs for $46 million! 50 jobs were not given to anyone local. No one locally even knows anyone that works there.
Wooppee!...."possibly 250 more jobs". Do you think anyone from this small town will get them?
Significant number of visitors to a server farm? Seriously?
No, the county gets 46 million, and they forfeit the other 46 they will be getting in ten years in order to earn those new tax revenues. Glass half full, remember?
Quote:
Originally Posted by xrayeyes
My husband owns a small business that employs 45 people. I can GUARANTEE that he pays more in taxes, and benefits the local economy more than the state of NC will see from this Apple facility for quite some time...if ever.
How much you wanna bet Apple pays bit more?
Quote:
Originally Posted by xrayeyes
I'm from the area, so don't tell me how to "educate" myself from 3000 miles away...
A valid point, but why would you rely on a formerly good newspaper in D.C. to set your mind buzzing? You should do the research on the local secondary effects if you're so close and so willing to add to the clouds of negativity that seem to form around any sign of progress in this fearful country.
Ok, let's forgo all the stupid bickering back and forth about the "details" of the deal.
I would love to know how many of you sympathize with the "occupiers" or follow the democrat's belief that the top wage earners in this country should be taxed at a higher rate?
If you follow either one of those ideologies, and you think this Apple deal is good for North Carolina or it's citizens (let's forget about Maiden), then you are a hypocrite!
What about my husband's business? Where are HIS tax breaks? The citizens of NC are out $46 million dollars with little to show for it. Why not give some incentives to small businesses to come here? Why give the tax breaks to one of the richest companies in the WORLD?
I couldn't give a rat's a** about the 50 jobs, but the $46 mil tax break get's the best of me. It simply isn't fair when we break our backs to pay our fair share.
Ok, let's forgo all the stupid bickering back and forth about the "details" of the deal.
I would love to know how many of you sympathize with the "occupiers" or follow the democrat's belief that the top wage earners in this country should be taxed at a higher rate?
If you follow either one of those ideologies, and you think this Apple deal is good for North Carolina or it's citizens (let's forget about Maiden), then you are a hypocrite!
What about my husband's business? Where are HIS tax breaks? The citizens of NC are out $46 million dollars with little to show for it. Why not give some incentives to small businesses to come here? Why give the tax breaks to one of the richest companies in the WORLD?
I couldn't give a rat's a** about the 50 jobs, but the $46 mil tax break get's the best of me. It simply isn't fair when we break our backs to pay our fair share.
You are ridiculous and a hypocrit because you know very well the breaks a business with 50 heads gets from businesses than an individual would not.
This is where you chime with your rhetoric about how governments are businesses while ignoring the fact that governments need revenue to function and that Apple, Facebook nor any other company was require to do business in a specific town, municipality, city, county, or state. Even countries offer incentives (you can learn a new word word today) to entice corporations to do business within their borders.
Again, show us where Maiden or NC has not made a net gain from Apple building the data center. What does maiden or NC if corporations took their business elsewhere because other states offered lower taxes than Maiden or NC? Surely you have rudimentary understanding of econonics behind your unteilding greed. Or not. I bet you think Apple's 23k sqft anchor store in GCS is wrong because a tiny fast food place pays more per sqft.
It would be a hoot if Apple were using Dells in their data centers. More likely a custom server that will never see the like of day outside of Apple. Probably using AMD processors.
You are ridiculous and a hypocrit because you know very well the breaks a business with 50 heads gets from businesses than an individual would not.
This is where you chime with your rhetoric about how governments are businesses while ignoring the fact that governments need revenue to function and that Apple, Facebook nor any other company was require to do business in a specific town, municipality, city, county, or state. Even countries offer incentives (you can learn a new word word today) to entice corporations to do business within their borders.
Again, show us where Maiden or NC has not made a net gain from Apple building the data center. What does maiden or NC if corporations took their business elsewhere because other states offered lower taxes than Maiden or NC? Surely you have rudimentary understanding of econonics behind your unteilding greed. Or not. I bet you think Apple's 23k sqft anchor store in GCS is wrong because a tiny fast food place pays more per sqft.
Did you READ my statement or just gloss over it? I said my husband's business! Where did you get anything about an individual tax break?
And so I'm greedy because I want tax breaks for a small business? LOL! Unless you've run a business you have no idea what we're dealing with when it comes to economics. We have 45 people's lives at stake...people we care about---pay full insurance on and provide many other benefits. I wonder how long that will last if our taxes keep going up to cover the businesses that DON"T pay their fair share.
Did you READ my statement or just gloss over it? I said my husband's business! Where did you get anything about an individual tax break?.
Yeah, I used two examples of show how a larger entity gets more breaks than a smaller entity to do their spending power.
Quote:
And so I'm greedy because I want tax breaks for a small business? LOL! Unless you've run a business you have no idea what we're dealing with when it comes to economics. We have 45 people's lives at stake...people we care about---pay full insurance on and provide many other benefits. I wonder how long that will last if our taxes keep going up to cover the businesses that DON"T pay their fair share.
You are greedy and delusional because you expect all these corporations to simply pay more in your state, country and city when they would pack up and leave your state, county or city if they raised the taxes to leaves of the simplest business entity thus bringing the state, city or county to it's knees due to stupid, greedy legislature you are all for.
You think Detroit is doing bad witch industry shutting down just imagine is North Caroline made a huge corporation that could function just as easily and with more profit across the border in TN, GA, SC, or VA. Then you'd be bitching that their isn't enough government to force them to stay.
If you're really not a hypocrite about paying the full share even a discount is presented before you then I expect you to never use a coupon or buy an item at a sale price. This is where you retort that you are not a business, but it's the same principle, and if you can't see how Apple is bringing in more money to Maiden and NC than before when the land and no utilities were needed then you are likely not ever going to see past your own foolish greed to understand.
It would be a hoot if Apple were using Dells in their data centers. More likely a custom server that will never see the like of day outside of Apple. Probably using AMD processors.
Woopeee! 50 jobs for $46 million! 50 jobs were not given to anyone local. No one locally even knows anyone that works there.
Wooppee!...."possibly 250 more jobs". Do you think anyone from this small town will get them?
Significant number of visitors to a server farm? Seriously?
My husband owns a small business that employs 45 people. I can GUARANTEE that he pays more in taxes, and benefits the local economy more than the state of NC will see from this Apple facility for quite some time...if ever.
I'm from the area, so don't tell me how to "educate" myself from 3000 miles away...
I don't care what kind of business your husband owns. You're incompetent to discuss the issue because you don't know what you're talking about and you're letting your hatred interfere with rational thinking.
Here are the facts:
1. Before Apple bought the land, it was forest and farm and a couple of cheap houses. Real estate taxes were low, probably well under $1 M per year (I think there are something like 1000 acres, taxes were probably around $100 per acre on average, so the total would be $100 K per year).
2. If Apple paid full taxes, they'd be paying $9.2 M per year ($92 M for 10 years). But Apple got a better deal elsewhere so if NC had demanded the full amount of taxes, they would actually have gotten zero
3. Instead of accepting zero (or the $1 M that they're currently getting for the next 10 years), the state agreed to let Apple pay less taxes in order to get Apple there. So the state will get an additional $45 M that it doesn't have now. In addition, of course, the state gets 300 new jobs and all the other spending that goes with it. PLUS, after 10 years, that goes up to $9.2 M per year.
So, your position is that the state should have stubbornly refused to offer Apple a discount and instead walked away with nothing? No wonder it's your husband who owns the business and not you. You'd be bankrupt.
Quote:
Originally Posted by xrayeyes
I couldn't give a rat's a** about the 50 jobs, but the $46 mil tax break get's the best of me. It simply isn't fair when we break our backs to pay our fair share.
See above. The state is getting $45 M in revenue that it wouldn't otherwise have. Sounds like a pretty good deal to me.
I don't care what kind of business your husband owns. You're incompetent to discuss the issue because you don't know what you're talking about and you're letting your hatred interfere with rational thinking.
Here are the facts:
1. Before Apple bought the land, it was forest and farm and a couple of cheap houses. Real estate taxes were low, probably well under $1 M per year (I think there are something like 1000 acres, taxes were probably around $100 per acre on average, so the total would be $100 K per year).
2. If Apple paid full taxes, they'd be paying $9.2 M per year ($92 M for 10 years). But Apple got a better deal elsewhere so if NC had demanded the full amount of taxes, they would actually have gotten zero
3. Instead of accepting zero (or the $1 M that they're currently getting for the next 10 years), the state agreed to let Apple pay less taxes in order to get Apple there. So the state will get an additional $45 M that it doesn't have now. In addition, of course, the state gets 300 new jobs and all the other spending that goes with it. PLUS, after 10 years, that goes up to $9.2 M per year.
So, your position is that the state should have stubbornly refused to offer Apple a discount and instead walked away with nothing? No wonder it's your husband who owns the business and not you. You'd be bankrupt.
See above. The state is getting $45 M in revenue that it wouldn't otherwise have. Sounds like a pretty good deal to me.
Where are you getting the 9.2 mil/year and 50% discount? Do you have any facts to back up that data? The only data I have seen anywhere is the 46 mil tax incentive...total tax break for 10 years. The 50% discount is local taxes.
I own the business with my husband....
You guys all lose just as much credibility with the name calling.
I have no hatred for Apple. I do have hatred for tax incentives...especially for ridiculously rich corporations.
Where are you getting the 9.2 mil/year and 50% discount? Do you have any facts to back up that data? The only data I have seen anywhere is the 46 mil tax incentive...total tax break for 10 years. The 50% discount is local taxes.
Read his posts again, and this time comprehend them.
Quote:
I own the business with my husband….
1) Based on your previous wording you do not run the business, your husband does otherwise you would have stated you have a business.
2) My sympathies for your husband. If your husband agrees with you then my sympathies for your employees.
Quote:
You guys all lose just as much credibility with the name calling.
No one called you a name. Adjectives were used, no nouns, no labels, no names.
Unless you understand NC corporate laws and my particular situation, you don't know jack about my reasons for not being "specific" with our business venture. We're married...'nuff said.
And unless I see some data to back up the 50% claim, it doesn't wash. I can read his statement, but there is no fact there. I have read 50% off local taxes. Not 50% for state.
Where's the data to back it up?
So, calling me greedy, idiot, uneducated... Adjective...sure. euphemism for name calling. Right....I get it.....
They also have been relying on Amazon and others for years. Perhaps this is about weaning off 3rd parties, or at least becoming less dependent. Regardless, as more devices are sold, iCloud alone will demand greater and greater investment in server farms. In fact, it's possible that the NC facility couldn't meet iCloud demands and they have had to spend more on Amazon and Microsoft.
I think that might be the answer.
Whatever conditions were in place to make it more cost effective for Apple to be renting off 3rd parties instead off running things in-house have apparently tilted in favor of Apple owning their own data centers.
Comments
With our economy in shambles, these private companies are out to use extreme measures to try and avoid paying taxes.
If you're so keen on paying taxes you don't legally have to then why don't give more money to the government.
The state of NC handed out over 46 million dollars in tax incentives to one of the richest companies in the world for basically 50 jobs, and not even local ones at that.
You might want to edit your post to make it factual and not come across as sounding crazy.
PS: I just got an extra 25% off at Banana Republic because I bought "3 or more" T-shirts. Funny how those willing to spend more get additional discounts, but I know some will read that I just stole money from BR despite dropping more than $150 in the store.
Apple has been using server farms for years with their extensive iTunes Store so what could these new massive server farms be used for? I don't think iCloud or Siri are going to cut it as answers.
They also have been relying on Amazon and others for years. Perhaps this is about weaning off 3rd parties, or at least becoming less dependent. Regardless, as more devices are sold, iCloud alone will demand greater and greater investment in server farms. In fact, it's possible that the NC facility couldn't meet iCloud demands and they have had to spend more on Amazon and Microsoft.
But I do share in your excitement about the possibility that this is for something new altogether.
See what happens, North Carolina?
They HAD to put the next one on the west coast for balance. You see, millions of data requests pumping electrons out of North Carolina. If they don't do something to balance it, the country will tip into the Pacific.
Apple opened a massive, 500,000-square-foot data center in Maiden, N.C., earlier this year. In October, it was revealed that the company also plans to build a new solar farm opposite the data center.
At least we can guess that they won't be building a solar center in NC.
The state of NC handed out over 46 million dollars in tax incentives to one of the richest companies in the world for basically 50 jobs, and not even local ones at that.
Let's say those 50 people buy 50 homes locally...which probably didn't happen. I guarantee most of them ended up in Charlotte. It's still in NC, fair enough. But, how 'bout if we had just given those 50 people $300,000 for new homes and they just immediately forked it over to the local economy in the way of builders, existing homes, etc. $1.5 million. Hmmmm, a bit better deal for us taxpayers. $1.5 mil vs $46 mil
Oh, so they buy goods locally too? Wow, I hope they spend over $315 mil over the next ten years so we can recoup our sales tax!
So, excuse me if I don't welcome this multibillion dollar industry that COSTS us taxpayers of NC, with open arms. I have an iPhone and I have Apple stock, but it still doesn't make me an Apple corporate lover....
You might start by educating yourself.
First, in spite of the tax break, Apple will be paying the state considerably more taxes than you received before. The credit has been reported as 50%, so if it's a $46 M tax break, that means that the state will be receiving $46 M in EXTRA tax revenue (although you will have to subtract out the taxes previously being charged on the farmland and forest - undoubtedly far less than $1 M). So the state gains $45 M for the next 10 years - and $90 M for the 10 years after that.
Second, your information on jobs is wrong. Apple will be creating 50 new DIRECT jobs in NC that didn't exist before. They estimate that there will be an additional 250 indirect jobs (landscaping, security, etc). 300 new jobs is enormous for a city of 3400 (probably under 2,000 total jobs.
So, in addition to the $45 M in NEW tax revenue that the state will receive, you will also get:
- 300 new jobs - all of which pay taxes and generate income that will be spent at least partially in NC
- A large number of temporary jobs to build the data center
- Purchases of goods - at least some of the items needed for the data center will be purchased locally.
- A significant number of visitors from out of town generating revenue for the area
And so on
Looking down on this deal because Apple got a discount on taxes is just plain foolish and short-sighted.
They HAD to put the next one on the west coast for balance. You see, millions of data requests pumping electrons out of North Carolina. If they don't do something to balance it, the country will tip into the Pacific.
At least we can guess that they won't be building a solar center in NC.
You might start by educating yourself.
First, in spite of the tax break, Apple will be paying the state considerably more taxes than you received before. The credit has been reported as 50%, so if it's a $46 M tax break, that means that the state will be receiving $46 M in EXTRA tax revenue (although you will have to subtract out the taxes previously being charged on the farmland and forest - undoubtedly far less than $1 M). So the state gains $45 M for the next 10 years - and $90 M for the 10 years after that.
Second, your information on jobs is wrong. Apple will be creating 50 new DIRECT jobs in NC that didn't exist before. They estimate that there will be an additional 250 indirect jobs (landscaping, security, etc). 300 new jobs is enormous for a city of 3400 (probably under 2,000 total jobs.
So, in addition to the $45 M in NEW tax revenue that the state will receive, you will also get:
- 300 new jobs - all of which pay taxes and generate income that will be spent at least partially in NC
- A large number of temporary jobs to build the data center
- Purchases of goods - at least some of the items needed for the data center will be purchased locally.
- A significant number of visitors from out of town generating revenue for the area
And so on
Looking down on this deal because Apple got a discount on taxes is just plain foolish and short-sighted.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/busine...N_story_1.html
The 50% tax credit was for local property taxes.
Woopeee! 50 jobs for $46 million! 50 jobs were not given to anyone local. No one locally even knows anyone that works there.
Wooppee!...."possibly 250 more jobs". Do you think anyone from this small town will get them?
Significant number of visitors to a server farm? Seriously?
My husband owns a small business that employs 45 people. I can GUARANTEE that he pays more in taxes, and benefits the local economy more than the state of NC will see from this Apple facility for quite some time...if ever.
I'm from the area, so don't tell me how to "educate" myself from 3000 miles away...
You might want to edit your post to make it factual and not come across as sounding crazy.
Do you have any facts to dispute me? And yeah, go ahead and call me names because you have nothing important to add to the conversation...
My husband owns a small business that employs 45 people. I can GUARANTEE that he pays more in taxes, and benefits the local economy more than the state of NC will see from this Apple facility for quite some time...if ever.
Apple paid NC more in taxes last year than you and your husband will pay in taxes in your entire lifetimes.
Also, there's probably no way to quantify how much money flowed through local and nearby economies in the building of this project -- the construction workers, materials haulers, the engineers staying around for months, etc. To view this negatively because "rich" Apple got the customary tax incentive is pathological. Maybe if you had to put up with the pains of development like increased noise and torn up roads, you might complain, but otherwise you would look like an enemy of progress. And reason.
Do you have any facts to dispute me? And yeah, go ahead and call me names because you have nothing important to add to the conversation...
1) So you replied to jragosta's post but didn't read his posts because it's all right there.
2) And what name did I call you?
http://www.washingtonpost.com/busine...N_story_1.html
This story seems like a cooked-up piece of anti-Apple crap to me. The editor I used to work under would have tossed it back across the desk and said, "You didn't talk to anybody but the mom and pop hardware? You get on the phone right now and call every motel and restaurant and grocery within 50 miles and ask them about their business before and after construction. Call the state police about traffic, the gas stations, the smokehouse, I don't care who, but we're not running a story like this based on one hardware store in the middle of a dead town."
The 50% tax credit was for local property taxes.
Woopeee! 50 jobs for $46 million! 50 jobs were not given to anyone local. No one locally even knows anyone that works there.
Wooppee!...."possibly 250 more jobs". Do you think anyone from this small town will get them?
Significant number of visitors to a server farm? Seriously?
No, the county gets 46 million, and they forfeit the other 46 they will be getting in ten years in order to earn those new tax revenues. Glass half full, remember?
My husband owns a small business that employs 45 people. I can GUARANTEE that he pays more in taxes, and benefits the local economy more than the state of NC will see from this Apple facility for quite some time...if ever.
How much you wanna bet Apple pays bit more?
I'm from the area, so don't tell me how to "educate" myself from 3000 miles away...
A valid point, but why would you rely on a formerly good newspaper in D.C. to set your mind buzzing? You should do the research on the local secondary effects if you're so close and so willing to add to the clouds of negativity that seem to form around any sign of progress in this fearful country.
I would love to know how many of you sympathize with the "occupiers" or follow the democrat's belief that the top wage earners in this country should be taxed at a higher rate?
If you follow either one of those ideologies, and you think this Apple deal is good for North Carolina or it's citizens (let's forget about Maiden), then you are a hypocrite!
What about my husband's business? Where are HIS tax breaks? The citizens of NC are out $46 million dollars with little to show for it. Why not give some incentives to small businesses to come here? Why give the tax breaks to one of the richest companies in the WORLD?
I couldn't give a rat's a** about the 50 jobs, but the $46 mil tax break get's the best of me. It simply isn't fair when we break our backs to pay our fair share.
Ok, let's forgo all the stupid bickering back and forth about the "details" of the deal.
I would love to know how many of you sympathize with the "occupiers" or follow the democrat's belief that the top wage earners in this country should be taxed at a higher rate?
If you follow either one of those ideologies, and you think this Apple deal is good for North Carolina or it's citizens (let's forget about Maiden), then you are a hypocrite!
What about my husband's business? Where are HIS tax breaks? The citizens of NC are out $46 million dollars with little to show for it. Why not give some incentives to small businesses to come here? Why give the tax breaks to one of the richest companies in the WORLD?
I couldn't give a rat's a** about the 50 jobs, but the $46 mil tax break get's the best of me. It simply isn't fair when we break our backs to pay our fair share.
You are ridiculous and a hypocrit because you know very well the breaks a business with 50 heads gets from businesses than an individual would not.
This is where you chime with your rhetoric about how governments are businesses while ignoring the fact that governments need revenue to function and that Apple, Facebook nor any other company was require to do business in a specific town, municipality, city, county, or state. Even countries offer incentives (you can learn a new word word today) to entice corporations to do business within their borders.
Again, show us where Maiden or NC has not made a net gain from Apple building the data center. What does maiden or NC if corporations took their business elsewhere because other states offered lower taxes than Maiden or NC? Surely you have rudimentary understanding of econonics behind your unteilding greed. Or not. I bet you think Apple's 23k sqft anchor store in GCS is wrong because a tiny fast food place pays more per sqft.
You are ridiculous and a hypocrit because you know very well the breaks a business with 50 heads gets from businesses than an individual would not.
This is where you chime with your rhetoric about how governments are businesses while ignoring the fact that governments need revenue to function and that Apple, Facebook nor any other company was require to do business in a specific town, municipality, city, county, or state. Even countries offer incentives (you can learn a new word word today) to entice corporations to do business within their borders.
Again, show us where Maiden or NC has not made a net gain from Apple building the data center. What does maiden or NC if corporations took their business elsewhere because other states offered lower taxes than Maiden or NC? Surely you have rudimentary understanding of econonics behind your unteilding greed. Or not. I bet you think Apple's 23k sqft anchor store in GCS is wrong because a tiny fast food place pays more per sqft.
Did you READ my statement or just gloss over it? I said my husband's business! Where did you get anything about an individual tax break?
And so I'm greedy because I want tax breaks for a small business? LOL! Unless you've run a business you have no idea what we're dealing with when it comes to economics. We have 45 people's lives at stake...people we care about---pay full insurance on and provide many other benefits. I wonder how long that will last if our taxes keep going up to cover the businesses that DON"T pay their fair share.
Did you READ my statement or just gloss over it? I said my husband's business! Where did you get anything about an individual tax break?.
Yeah, I used two examples of show how a larger entity gets more breaks than a smaller entity to do their spending power.
And so I'm greedy because I want tax breaks for a small business? LOL! Unless you've run a business you have no idea what we're dealing with when it comes to economics. We have 45 people's lives at stake...people we care about---pay full insurance on and provide many other benefits. I wonder how long that will last if our taxes keep going up to cover the businesses that DON"T pay their fair share.
You are greedy and delusional because you expect all these corporations to simply pay more in your state, country and city when they would pack up and leave your state, county or city if they raised the taxes to leaves of the simplest business entity thus bringing the state, city or county to it's knees due to stupid, greedy legislature you are all for.
You think Detroit is doing bad witch industry shutting down just imagine is North Caroline made a huge corporation that could function just as easily and with more profit across the border in TN, GA, SC, or VA. Then you'd be bitching that their isn't enough government to force them to stay.
If you're really not a hypocrite about paying the full share even a discount is presented before you then I expect you to never use a coupon or buy an item at a sale price. This is where you retort that you are not a business, but it's the same principle, and if you can't see how Apple is bringing in more money to Maiden and NC than before when the land and no utilities were needed then you are likely not ever going to see past your own foolish greed to understand.
It would be a hoot if Apple were using Dells in their data centers. More likely a custom server that will never see the like of day outside of Apple. Probably using AMD processors.
They use HP blades, I believe.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/busine...N_story_1.html
The 50% tax credit was for local property taxes.
Woopeee! 50 jobs for $46 million! 50 jobs were not given to anyone local. No one locally even knows anyone that works there.
Wooppee!...."possibly 250 more jobs". Do you think anyone from this small town will get them?
Significant number of visitors to a server farm? Seriously?
My husband owns a small business that employs 45 people. I can GUARANTEE that he pays more in taxes, and benefits the local economy more than the state of NC will see from this Apple facility for quite some time...if ever.
I'm from the area, so don't tell me how to "educate" myself from 3000 miles away...
I don't care what kind of business your husband owns. You're incompetent to discuss the issue because you don't know what you're talking about and you're letting your hatred interfere with rational thinking.
Here are the facts:
1. Before Apple bought the land, it was forest and farm and a couple of cheap houses. Real estate taxes were low, probably well under $1 M per year (I think there are something like 1000 acres, taxes were probably around $100 per acre on average, so the total would be $100 K per year).
2. If Apple paid full taxes, they'd be paying $9.2 M per year ($92 M for 10 years). But Apple got a better deal elsewhere so if NC had demanded the full amount of taxes, they would actually have gotten zero
3. Instead of accepting zero (or the $1 M that they're currently getting for the next 10 years), the state agreed to let Apple pay less taxes in order to get Apple there. So the state will get an additional $45 M that it doesn't have now. In addition, of course, the state gets 300 new jobs and all the other spending that goes with it. PLUS, after 10 years, that goes up to $9.2 M per year.
So, your position is that the state should have stubbornly refused to offer Apple a discount and instead walked away with nothing? No wonder it's your husband who owns the business and not you. You'd be bankrupt.
I couldn't give a rat's a** about the 50 jobs, but the $46 mil tax break get's the best of me. It simply isn't fair when we break our backs to pay our fair share.
See above. The state is getting $45 M in revenue that it wouldn't otherwise have. Sounds like a pretty good deal to me.
I don't care what kind of business your husband owns. You're incompetent to discuss the issue because you don't know what you're talking about and you're letting your hatred interfere with rational thinking.
Here are the facts:
1. Before Apple bought the land, it was forest and farm and a couple of cheap houses. Real estate taxes were low, probably well under $1 M per year (I think there are something like 1000 acres, taxes were probably around $100 per acre on average, so the total would be $100 K per year).
2. If Apple paid full taxes, they'd be paying $9.2 M per year ($92 M for 10 years). But Apple got a better deal elsewhere so if NC had demanded the full amount of taxes, they would actually have gotten zero
3. Instead of accepting zero (or the $1 M that they're currently getting for the next 10 years), the state agreed to let Apple pay less taxes in order to get Apple there. So the state will get an additional $45 M that it doesn't have now. In addition, of course, the state gets 300 new jobs and all the other spending that goes with it. PLUS, after 10 years, that goes up to $9.2 M per year.
So, your position is that the state should have stubbornly refused to offer Apple a discount and instead walked away with nothing? No wonder it's your husband who owns the business and not you. You'd be bankrupt.
See above. The state is getting $45 M in revenue that it wouldn't otherwise have. Sounds like a pretty good deal to me.
Where are you getting the 9.2 mil/year and 50% discount? Do you have any facts to back up that data? The only data I have seen anywhere is the 46 mil tax incentive...total tax break for 10 years. The 50% discount is local taxes.
I own the business with my husband....
You guys all lose just as much credibility with the name calling.
I have no hatred for Apple. I do have hatred for tax incentives...especially for ridiculously rich corporations.
Where are you getting the 9.2 mil/year and 50% discount? Do you have any facts to back up that data? The only data I have seen anywhere is the 46 mil tax incentive...total tax break for 10 years. The 50% discount is local taxes.
Read his posts again, and this time comprehend them.
I own the business with my husband….
1) Based on your previous wording you do not run the business, your husband does otherwise you would have stated you have a business.
2) My sympathies for your husband. If your husband agrees with you then my sympathies for your employees.
You guys all lose just as much credibility with the name calling.
No one called you a name. Adjectives were used, no nouns, no labels, no names.
And unless I see some data to back up the 50% claim, it doesn't wash. I can read his statement, but there is no fact there. I have read 50% off local taxes. Not 50% for state.
Where's the data to back it up?
So, calling me greedy, idiot, uneducated... Adjective...sure. euphemism for name calling. Right....I get it.....
They also have been relying on Amazon and others for years. Perhaps this is about weaning off 3rd parties, or at least becoming less dependent. Regardless, as more devices are sold, iCloud alone will demand greater and greater investment in server farms. In fact, it's possible that the NC facility couldn't meet iCloud demands and they have had to spend more on Amazon and Microsoft.
I think that might be the answer.
Whatever conditions were in place to make it more cost effective for Apple to be renting off 3rd parties instead off running things in-house have apparently tilted in favor of Apple owning their own data centers.