I'd personally like to see Apple corner the NAND drive market for the next six months and see how well the competition fares without being able to get any storage. I'd like to see how anti-Apple media manages to claim that Apple will suffer the most during drive shortages.
There's no such thing. The media is extraordinarily pro-Apple. Apple fans, though, are usually unable to handle balanced criticism of Apple.
The Thai government was well aware of the shortcomings of their flood control system long before the disaster - and did nothing. Basic maintenance and clearing of the old systems could have prevented much of the damage and death.
They chose to do little or nothing.
First; this was was an extodinary year for rain in Thailand. Like it or not nobody has yet perfected long range weather predictions.
Second; and possibly most damning you seem to think governments sit on a bottomless pit of money with little or no competing interests for that money. The fact is both governments spend considerable money every year on flood control and navigation. No matter what one does engineering wise there are two realities that one has to live with. One is that every thing ages and degrades over time. The second is that there is never enough money to implement the ultimate system.
It is nice to blame the government but I think it is a mistake to believe that every flood is preventable. The US spends a huge amount of money every year on flood control projects around the entire country. However no body sees these other projects as failures if they don't successfully handle a really bad storm. Just look at what happened in the northeast this year.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta
Actually, that show doesn't support your claim. In fact, it supports the previous claim - that the U.S. was just as negligent in not properly building and maintaining flood control as Thailand was.
You do realize that it is impossible to build a flood control system that will work every time.
Massive negligence on the part of the U.S. and state governments. Of course, compounded by additional negligence for rebuilding the city in the same location.
Negligence in this case is vile word to be using and frankly shows a misunderstanding of the engineering realities involved. The real negligence should be placed on the people that refused to leave and either died or made things much worst afterwards.
That would NEVER happen in the US :::coughKatrinacough:::
All you did there is demonstrate your incredible ignorance as to the situation in Thailand. Congratulations. Good thing you are sheltered behind an anonymous forum name.
Neither did the US government in New Orleans when they knew that flood defences were inadequate.
Look at the affected *parts* of New Orleans and then look at the affected SECTIONS of Thailand. Apples to oranges.
But it makes a great sound bite! Did picking on the "evil" US Government (never mind that all the issues referenced are in the purview of the state, not federal government) give you a nice, warm glow of accomplishment?
Actually, that show doesn't support your claim. In fact, it supports the previous claim - that the U.S. was just as negligent in not properly building and maintaining flood control as Thailand was.
Rather than being spoon fed clips from blogs, why don't you try a real logical exercise such as comparing the sizes and scope of areas affected.
A rational person would be embarrassed to make the claims you and the other ignorant posters are making in public in comparing New Orleans (or even Katrina) to Thailand. To even hint they are similar is the height of absurdity.
Who says the Internet has fostered greater understanding and more informed discussion? Ugh...
Yep, think someone way back when talked about 'building a house on the sand'
And now, doesn't something like 70% of USA Population live in Counties on a 'Coast' ?
Next to an Ocean or Gulf Mexico, with Hurricanes, Storms, etc
AND - many buildings are about as close to the 'tide line' as they can get, yea ?
Well, be very careful trying to 'dance' with Mother Nature - she tends to win in long run
Indeed. I don't care if people choose to build in these zones - just stop giving them tax payer money to rebuild if they are wiped out
If they want to chance it, let them self or private insure. But stop giving the same people money over and over and over again to get wiped out and then rebuild in the same places.
Same thing for flood zones in the midwest. Historically many towns were built near water due to economic and transportation concerns - but that's no longer necessary these days. Time to move some towns and cities farther away from the water!
And don't get me started on the west. I grew up there, miss it and some day would love to go back - but the vast majority of it is desert - including the majority of the CA coastline. The amount of people in the western US is simply unsustainable with our current technology. Mono Lake is a great microcosm of the water struggles in the west. But the rest of the country isn't out of the woods - nor the world. We are quickly depleting aquifers that produce the majority of the worlds grain. Useable fresh water is going to become a huge issue over the coming decades - threatening growth and economic stability far more than oil or other things we are currently worrying about.
... don't care if people choose to build in these zones - just stop giving them tax payer money to rebuild if they are wiped out
Same thing for flood zones in the midwest. Time to move some towns and cities farther away from the water!
And don't get me started on the west.
Doc ...
Nice catch, was born/raised in Fla Panhandle - Redneck Riviera - forgot about all the money spent to rebuild houses, hotels and tourists traps after every Storm. And just so the Bubbas from 'Bama can keep working on their Sun Burn.
Remember the 'Big Floods' around St. Louis back in 90s? Someone did some research and found not a single one of the 'Indian Sites/Mound Areas' came close to any flooding. So as many were talking about re-drawing the '100 year flood plain maps' - this Scientist suggested we look to those Indian Sites and come up with a '500 Year Map'. Curious what's come of that idea.
AND - the West ?
Ha, the folks in Las Vegas, Phoenix, etc - they better hope it keeps snowing in Colorado Mountains, or one day they may not have anything flowing down that one single River where they get their water, yea ?
Wonder how many of them know anything about the Anasazi ?
.
Yea, sorta makes all this talk about 'hard drives and dvds' seem trivial, eh ?
All you did there is demonstrate your incredible ignorance as to the situation in Taiwan. Congratulations. Good thing you are sheltered behind an anonymous forum name.
Oh, the irony.
You're calling out someone's ignorance, when you repeatedly confuse Taiwan with Thailand. I bet you couldn't point out either on a map.
You're calling out someone's ignorance, when you repeatedly confuse Taiwan with Thailand. I bet you couldn't point out either on a map.
: guilty - it's late and I brain farted. And I actually can point them out on the map - that's visual. Stupid names (countries, people - doesn't matter) are what I have a hard time convincing my brain to keep straight.... But the fundamental points stand - comparing our infrastructure and building standards to Thailand is just plain silly.
Sadly, it usually takes a tragedy like this to get reform going - hopefully the global attention will spur the government and companies doing business their to change their practices for the better.
All those "things" need a spinning disk on which the data is stored. A concept good old Edison would appreciate... like a fancy digital phonograph...
whereas... flash memory does not have a physical spinning object to store its digital value.
Coops
So you are claiming the original poster didn't really understand what they are saying, because you have said something totally different they what they posted.
And spinning disks are cheaper, and for movies, higher quality, nothing wrong with them.
Yeah, im kind of wondering that myself. Apple doesnt use their own controller nor do they use a custom firmware for SSDs as far as i know.
They don't. It's just a slightly atypical form factor. They're using it because it fits within the macbook air design. A typical sata form factor would weigh more and take up more space. The high density required means it's probably quite expensive. When the cost comes down you may see other manufacturers start to incorporate this stuff.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Constable Odo
I'd personally like to see Apple corner the NAND drive market for the next six months and see how well the competition fares without being able to get any storage. I'd like to see how anti-Apple media manages to claim that Apple will suffer the most during drive shortages. I hope Apple can keep up with demand if the Wintel notebook industry goes soft due to component shortages. It could sway a lot of fence sitters to get an Apple notebook if Wintel notebooks aren't available.
As for the availability of hard drives, I sure hope Apple isn't shy in using some of that cash reserve to get hold of some hard drives for the iMac even if they have to pay a premium price for them.
You are very silly. Cornering the market just to do so is stupid and anti competitive. Healthy competition is making people want to buy your product over another, not boxing the others out by purchasing based solely on availability. I do think it made sense to get their purchases in early though and wait this one out. It'll be back to normal by some point next year.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
If they're copying the style of SSD, it's copycatism. If they're just using standard SSDs, it's nothing of that sort; you're right.
Not sure if this is sarcasm, but it wouldn't be "copycatism" either way. The reason they're using the current style is weight and fit. It's got to be expensive due to the density required, which may put it out of budget for most Windows OEMs given their tighter margins. Whether or not they use an identical connector, you will see more of this style of drive if the ultrabook concept catches on. I think it's more a matter of time than anything.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
You think spinning disks are reliable? I'll take magnetic tape over HDDs and SSDs over magnetic tape.
But absolutely don't trust the cloud.
Many SSD models have had significant issues over the past year. Neither technology is reliable in the way they're manufactured though. You need backups either way, and the cloud doesn't count.
Between the HDCam tape shortages and now the HDD shortage, you can't help but wonder if nature is trying to wean us off legacy technology.
SSDs are getting pretty affordable now, I'd expect the market will take off quite quickly. The tipping point should be around the $1/GB mark. I think Crucial is the most affordable at $1.44/GB so that price point can't be all that far away, possibly 2013 when they go to 15nm NAND. Escalating demand will help lower price more than anything though.
Between the HDCam tape shortages and now the HDD shortage, you can't help but wonder if nature is trying to wean us off legacy technology.
SSDs are getting pretty affordable now, I'd expect the market will take off quite quickly. The tipping point should be around the $1/GB mark. I think Crucial is the most affordable at $1.44/GB so that price point can't be all that far away, possibly 2013 when they go to 15nm NAND. Escalating demand will help lower price more than anything though.
AnandTech mention just yesterday that the 20nm NAND will be about $1 per GB.
Crucial uses Micron NAND memory though so possibly the M4 successor will finally hit that price point sometime mid-late 2012. I just wish retailers would at least bring the old models down in price. Some companies still sell the C300 at a higher price than the M4. Why would anyone pay more for a slower, older drive?
Comments
Half Happy to read various comments about 'storage'
Just wish it gave off more light than heat
.
We'll see, in time, how well the various 'storage technologies' work
Remember - is still in the process of being invented
Some early ones - original CD/DVD laser die types - perhaps already history ?
.
So, consider this about Future Libraries ...
Music - might want to hang on to those Vinyl LPs and 45s
Film - glad the 'nitrate' is getting preserved, some at least
Just hope we find 'ways' to ensure 'info/data' IS kept for many years
Otherwise, let's go back to 'stone tablets' and 'parchment scrolls'
Or perhaps some 'Homer' (not Simpson) will continue the 'aural tradition'
.
.
I'd personally like to see Apple corner the NAND drive market for the next six months and see how well the competition fares without being able to get any storage. I'd like to see how anti-Apple media manages to claim that Apple will suffer the most during drive shortages.
There's no such thing. The media is extraordinarily pro-Apple. Apple fans, though, are usually unable to handle balanced criticism of Apple.
The Thai government was well aware of the shortcomings of their flood control system long before the disaster - and did nothing. Basic maintenance and clearing of the old systems could have prevented much of the damage and death.
They chose to do little or nothing.
First; this was was an extodinary year for rain in Thailand. Like it or not nobody has yet perfected long range weather predictions.
Second; and possibly most damning you seem to think governments sit on a bottomless pit of money with little or no competing interests for that money. The fact is both governments spend considerable money every year on flood control and navigation. No matter what one does engineering wise there are two realities that one has to live with. One is that every thing ages and degrades over time. The second is that there is never enough money to implement the ultimate system.
Actually, that show doesn't support your claim. In fact, it supports the previous claim - that the U.S. was just as negligent in not properly building and maintaining flood control as Thailand was.
You do realize that it is impossible to build a flood control system that will work every time.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/When_the_Levees_Broke
Massive negligence on the part of the U.S. and state governments. Of course, compounded by additional negligence for rebuilding the city in the same location.
Negligence in this case is vile word to be using and frankly shows a misunderstanding of the engineering realities involved. The real negligence should be placed on the people that refused to leave and either died or made things much worst afterwards.
The real negligence should be placed on the people that refused to leave and either died or made things much worst afterwards.
It was mostly their own fault, and moronic local politicians didn't make things any better.
When first read this ...
What you don't seem to realize is a perfect system isn't possible.
Thought was talking about 'storage technologies'
But, nope
Was about this ...
You do realize that it is impossible to build a flood control system that will work every time.
Yep, think someone way back when talked about 'building a house on the sand'
And now, doesn't something like 70% of USA Population live in Counties on a 'Coast' ?
Next to an Ocean or Gulf Mexico, with Hurricanes, Storms, etc
AND - many buildings are about as close to the 'tide line' as they can get, yea ?
Well, be very careful trying to 'dance' with Mother Nature - she tends to win in long run
Tick Tock
.
.
That would NEVER happen in the US :::coughKatrinacough:::
All you did there is demonstrate your incredible ignorance as to the situation in Thailand. Congratulations. Good thing you are sheltered behind an anonymous forum name.
Neither did the US government in New Orleans when they knew that flood defences were inadequate.
Look at the affected *parts* of New Orleans and then look at the affected SECTIONS of Thailand. Apples to oranges.
But it makes a great sound bite! Did picking on the "evil" US Government (never mind that all the issues referenced are in the purview of the state, not federal government) give you a nice, warm glow of accomplishment?
A bit of the pot and kettle?
Only for those skilled in manipulating straw men
Actually, that show doesn't support your claim. In fact, it supports the previous claim - that the U.S. was just as negligent in not properly building and maintaining flood control as Thailand was.
Rather than being spoon fed clips from blogs, why don't you try a real logical exercise such as comparing the sizes and scope of areas affected.
A rational person would be embarrassed to make the claims you and the other ignorant posters are making in public in comparing New Orleans (or even Katrina) to Thailand. To even hint they are similar is the height of absurdity.
Who says the Internet has fostered greater understanding and more informed discussion? Ugh...
Yep, think someone way back when talked about 'building a house on the sand'
And now, doesn't something like 70% of USA Population live in Counties on a 'Coast' ?
Next to an Ocean or Gulf Mexico, with Hurricanes, Storms, etc
AND - many buildings are about as close to the 'tide line' as they can get, yea ?
Well, be very careful trying to 'dance' with Mother Nature - she tends to win in long run
Indeed. I don't care if people choose to build in these zones - just stop giving them tax payer money to rebuild if they are wiped out
If they want to chance it, let them self or private insure. But stop giving the same people money over and over and over again to get wiped out and then rebuild in the same places.
Same thing for flood zones in the midwest. Historically many towns were built near water due to economic and transportation concerns - but that's no longer necessary these days. Time to move some towns and cities farther away from the water!
And don't get me started on the west. I grew up there, miss it and some day would love to go back - but the vast majority of it is desert - including the majority of the CA coastline. The amount of people in the western US is simply unsustainable with our current technology. Mono Lake is a great microcosm of the water struggles in the west. But the rest of the country isn't out of the woods - nor the world. We are quickly depleting aquifers that produce the majority of the worlds grain. Useable fresh water is going to become a huge issue over the coming decades - threatening growth and economic stability far more than oil or other things we are currently worrying about.
Great resources and good reading: http://water.usgs.gov/
... don't care if people choose to build in these zones - just stop giving them tax payer money to rebuild if they are wiped out
Same thing for flood zones in the midwest. Time to move some towns and cities farther away from the water!
And don't get me started on the west.
Doc ...
Nice catch, was born/raised in Fla Panhandle - Redneck Riviera - forgot about all the money spent to rebuild houses, hotels and tourists traps after every Storm. And just so the Bubbas from 'Bama can keep working on their Sun Burn.
Remember the 'Big Floods' around St. Louis back in 90s? Someone did some research and found not a single one of the 'Indian Sites/Mound Areas' came close to any flooding. So as many were talking about re-drawing the '100 year flood plain maps' - this Scientist suggested we look to those Indian Sites and come up with a '500 Year Map'. Curious what's come of that idea.
AND - the West ?
Ha, the folks in Las Vegas, Phoenix, etc - they better hope it keeps snowing in Colorado Mountains, or one day they may not have anything flowing down that one single River where they get their water, yea ?
Wonder how many of them know anything about the Anasazi ?
.
Yea, sorta makes all this talk about 'hard drives and dvds' seem trivial, eh ?
.
All you did there is demonstrate your incredible ignorance as to the situation in Taiwan. Congratulations. Good thing you are sheltered behind an anonymous forum name.
Oh, the irony.
You're calling out someone's ignorance, when you repeatedly confuse Taiwan with Thailand. I bet you couldn't point out either on a map.
You're calling out someone's ignorance, when you repeatedly confuse Taiwan with Thailand. I bet you couldn't point out either on a map.
Sadly, it usually takes a tragedy like this to get reform going - hopefully the global attention will spur the government and companies doing business their to change their practices for the better.
All those "things" need a spinning disk on which the data is stored. A concept good old Edison would appreciate... like a fancy digital phonograph...
whereas... flash memory does not have a physical spinning object to store its digital value.
Coops
So you are claiming the original poster didn't really understand what they are saying, because you have said something totally different they what they posted.
And spinning disks are cheaper, and for movies, higher quality, nothing wrong with them.
Yeah, im kind of wondering that myself. Apple doesnt use their own controller nor do they use a custom firmware for SSDs as far as i know.
They don't. It's just a slightly atypical form factor. They're using it because it fits within the macbook air design. A typical sata form factor would weigh more and take up more space. The high density required means it's probably quite expensive. When the cost comes down you may see other manufacturers start to incorporate this stuff.
I'd personally like to see Apple corner the NAND drive market for the next six months and see how well the competition fares without being able to get any storage. I'd like to see how anti-Apple media manages to claim that Apple will suffer the most during drive shortages. I hope Apple can keep up with demand if the Wintel notebook industry goes soft due to component shortages. It could sway a lot of fence sitters to get an Apple notebook if Wintel notebooks aren't available.
As for the availability of hard drives, I sure hope Apple isn't shy in using some of that cash reserve to get hold of some hard drives for the iMac even if they have to pay a premium price for them.
You are very silly. Cornering the market just to do so is stupid and anti competitive. Healthy competition is making people want to buy your product over another, not boxing the others out by purchasing based solely on availability. I do think it made sense to get their purchases in early though and wait this one out. It'll be back to normal by some point next year.
If they're copying the style of SSD, it's copycatism. If they're just using standard SSDs, it's nothing of that sort; you're right.
Not sure if this is sarcasm, but it wouldn't be "copycatism" either way. The reason they're using the current style is weight and fit. It's got to be expensive due to the density required, which may put it out of budget for most Windows OEMs given their tighter margins. Whether or not they use an identical connector, you will see more of this style of drive if the ultrabook concept catches on. I think it's more a matter of time than anything.
You think spinning disks are reliable? I'll take magnetic tape over HDDs and SSDs over magnetic tape.
But absolutely don't trust the cloud.
Many SSD models have had significant issues over the past year. Neither technology is reliable in the way they're manufactured though. You need backups either way, and the cloud doesn't count.
SSDs are getting pretty affordable now, I'd expect the market will take off quite quickly. The tipping point should be around the $1/GB mark. I think Crucial is the most affordable at $1.44/GB so that price point can't be all that far away, possibly 2013 when they go to 15nm NAND. Escalating demand will help lower price more than anything though.
Between the HDCam tape shortages and now the HDD shortage, you can't help but wonder if nature is trying to wean us off legacy technology.
SSDs are getting pretty affordable now, I'd expect the market will take off quite quickly. The tipping point should be around the $1/GB mark. I think Crucial is the most affordable at $1.44/GB so that price point can't be all that far away, possibly 2013 when they go to 15nm NAND. Escalating demand will help lower price more than anything though.
AnandTech mention just yesterday that the 20nm NAND will be about $1 per GB.
AnandTech mention just yesterday that the 20nm NAND will be about $1 per GB.
Probably not inside one of Intel's drive though
http://www.anandtech.com/show/5193/i...-20nm-mlc-nand
Crucial uses Micron NAND memory though so possibly the M4 successor will finally hit that price point sometime mid-late 2012. I just wish retailers would at least bring the old models down in price. Some companies still sell the C300 at a higher price than the M4. Why would anyone pay more for a slower, older drive?