You two should actually read the article. The statement was on mobile sites the 7" form factor was very nice. On FULL sites it didn't work very well.
Do you surf using full sites on your phone? I don't even on the iPhone unless I don't need to do more than click a link or two. Even then there's a lot of pinch zooming going on. If there's any login or forms entry to do I let it default to the mobile version.
Even just for content consumption, well designed mobile sites largely work better than full sites.
Yes I do surf full sites on my phone. A quick zoom and even the smallest print is readable. I only use it occassionally and for only a few sites. Its great to have in my pocket when I need it but otherwise I would use something bigger.
The Kindle Fire isn't the fastest tablet. That being said, I don't have nearly the amount of problems that the author of this article has. I'm able to read books, surf the web, and play quite a few games. Is it all perfect? No. Has any mobile device really been perfect? No. It is pretty usable, and sometimes I think we, as a group, just like to complain.
I wouldn't like this to be my only tablet. It isn't the fastest thing in the world. The lack of the Google ecosystem, means I don't get the cooler Reader, Docs, and Calendar apps. As a reference device when coding, or something to slip in a jacket pocket, or something to read while laying in bed, this device is way more than adequate.
The problem is that you have a high-end tablet that delivers solid performance across a wide delivery envelope, being comparing to a next generation ereader with additional capacity and abilities. But, to use the whole argument "Is it perfect? No. - but then nothing is" is very silly. Of course nothing is perfect, and nothing will be - so the argument is null. You spent upwards of 80 words to say "it doesn't suck". We all can agree it's better than nothing. Or better than the previous Kindle model. It's not better than an iPad, it may not even be better than a Galaxy Tab, Acer Iconium, or Sony Tablet S. It most likely IS good enough for the money spent on it.
It's the same thing for the HP TouchPad, and that thing blows bigtime.
It has 4 stars on Amazon and 647 reviews.
Crazy, fanatical people will convince themselves of anything.
I don't care if something has 6 stars on Amazon (yeah, I know 5 is the limit). I have 2 perfectly functioning eyes, and when I see evidence of a stuttering, jerky, laggy tablet in action, I am going to declare that it is garbage, simple as that. And the Kindle Fire fits that definition based on what I saw.
I own an iPad 2 and the HP Touchpad. The Touchpad doesn't suck and in fact it is pretty good, IF you "jailbreak" it with preware and install the latest patches for the advanced browser, touch sensitivity and increase the cpu to 1.5 - 1.8ghz. Having done this, the TP is a real joy to use. Only downside is lack of apps, which is why it is relegated to the minor leagues behind my ipad.
I own two iPhone 4's. My wife has an iPhone 4 as well. My daughters use our iPod Touch 4g. All are running the latest public build of iOS 5. We also have a Kindle Fire.
Here's what I can say about the iPhones/iPod:
* Apps never ever crash.
* Apple designed apps especially never ever crash (*cough* Safari *cough*).
* They never lockup or crash system-wide.
* They never "brick" during a routine update, which would force techie users to Google how to boot the device to DFU mode, and would force non-techie users to call Apple support (thankfully this never ever happens).
* I have never, ever, not once, clicked on the wrong thing.
* I have never, ever ran into a bad UI design.
* I have never, ever played with a demo iOS device in the store that was not working properly, even though hundreds of people have been using and abusing it before me.
Compared to my family's perfect iOS devices, the Kindle Fire is complete crap!
You two should actually read the article. The statement was on mobile sites the 7" form factor was very nice. On FULL sites it didn't work very well.
Do you surf using full sites on your phone? I don't even on the iPhone unless I don't need to do more than click a link or two. Even then there's a lot of pinch zooming going on. If there's any login or forms entry to do I let it default to the mobile version.
Even just for content consumption, well designed mobile sites largely work better than full sites.
Ahh yes I do! Full sites or nothing for me. I hate those dreaded mobile sites I can't change back to a full site. Talk about half the experience. Pinch to zoom works so well why wouldn't I use the full site.
ok, so I bought a Kindle Fire and a basic new Kindle e-reader at Walmart. I found the Fire to be fine for bookreading which is supposed to be it's primary use but funny how the article mostly talks about everything else on it. As for web page viewing it sucked. The font for one was just not right and it was slow zooming in on pages. I wouldn't use it for web page viewing that much. I love my new Kindle e-reader though (my first one I ever bought) so I returned the Fire since I already have an iPad2 and kept the new Kindle e-reader.
My mom on the other-hand prefers to read her books on a tablet over an e-reader. She's older and prefers the backlit display so, really trying to consider either getting her the Fire (again) or the iPad. She probably won't do too much with it other than book read so I gearing towards rebuying the Fire again for that reason alone for her. She thought the e-reader was too dull for her. hahaha
Eventually word will get out about what exactly the Fire is good for. Then people who expect to get an iPad on the cheap will no longer buy the product and people who buy exactly for what it's good for will post sterling reviews. So the Fire's average reviews will creep upwards.
Any parent though who thinks little Katie will be perfectly happy with the Fire thus freeing up mom's iPad will have to deal with a very disappointed child.
It's ironic that the cheaper device is actually more suited to an adult's needs. (Well the subset of adult's who mainly want to purchase & read e-books, and occasionally surf the web or run an app.)
The HW is powerful enough to warrant a better UX. Amazon can hid behind the holiday but I hope they have a major update coming by January or this could be another flash in the pan tablet trying to compete with Apple.
I don't see how the other vendors don't realize that releasing a half finished device doesn't help your product. The iPad was a hit because all the features it did include worked well.
What's with the Fire browser? Does Apple has a patent on the tap to zoom that makes reading a large website very easy and natural?
Not to mention all the struggle to find how to go "home" or basic simple navigation.
One may say it was a demo unit and thus could be damaged. My question would be: have you ever found a "damaged" demo iPad?
I wanted it to be good, competition is good, and the more the better products we would have. But the Kindle... I would stick with the first one for the e-ink.
I don't think you even gave it a chance! I agree that's a bad store presentation of a demo. They probably didn't have it connected to WiFi. Yes, I know the laptops were but did you see any WiFi bars at the top to see if it was connected? I think you were just looking for a quick reason to not like it so you could feel confident in your iPad purchase.
Come back when you have actually purchased and played with it for more than an hour.
...At least, unlike Windows, people aren't pretending that the user experience is great.
Most Windows users don't/didn't have anything else to gauge their experience by. Now with Apple Stores people can test out Macs, and before that many Windows users had iPods and then iPhones, and now iPads.
By now I'd think many getting a Kindle Fire have at least owned or played with someone's iPod Touch, iPhone or iPad so they have a very comparable method to see if it's good or bad.
I'm reading and typing this on a 7" BB Playbook, and I like the 7" screen. It fits in my coat pocket. My iPad never leaves home. If I need to take a bag, I take my MBP with me.
Not to get too personal, but are you old enough to need reading glasses? Do you also enjoy the web on a smartphone?
I've heard that the web can be too small to be enjoyable on a 7" device, and I've heard that with most default mobile websites, the experience is fine. I haven't played with a 7 incher long enough to form my own opinion. The Galaxy tab 8.9 seems to be the perfect size to me, but I don't have a strong opinion on the subject.
Do you use regular websites or mobile websites for the most part? Other than portability, do you recommend the 7" size? Is the keyboard too small to be useful?
I own two iPhone 4's. My wife has an iPhone 4 as well. My daughters use our iPod Touch 4g. All are running the latest public build of iOS 5. We also have a Kindle Fire.
I have not used a Fire, so I can't really comment on the review myself, but some of Jakob Nielsen's past reviews leave me suspicious. Here is what he thought about the ipad after a similar study when it first came out link
Quote:
iPad apps are inconsistent and have low feature discoverability, with frequent user errors due to accidental gestures. An overly strong print metaphor and weird interaction styles cause further usability problems.
It's amazing that nearly 5 years after Apple raised the bar and showed the world quality touch interfaces and hardware, other companies continue to make touch products that they know are junk.
Reminds me of the scene in the move "Crazy People" where the ad execs try to recreate the wildly successful ad copy that the crazy people did, but they can't.
4 people! As a study it is pretty much useless ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neo42
I'm rolling out of my chair over here. Perhaps for the faithful here at AI, a "4 man study", of which I'm sure at least 3 are i-Fans ...
A small study like this is statistically insignificant or insignificant in terms of determining sales trends, big numbers etc., but it isn't "useless." It's a review of usability based on the experiences of a carefully selected, unbiased group of users familiar wih the technology.
It's pretty clear that if the study were done with a wider group of people, some of whom aren't familiar with the devices at all, and some who have experience but are hopelessly biased, the result would have been worse for the Fire.
I also think that most everyone here, including the authors of the study seem to be ignoring the fact that the Fire is really a modified "Playbook" and as such is a classic "placeholder device" which exists primarily for market driven reasons. Of course it's going to be awful. That's a given with manoeuvres of this sort. The real competition heats up with Kindle Fire 2.0 next year (not that I'm holding my breath for a quality product even then).
The part of the study where they extrapolate from the results (based on the user feedback no doubt), that 7" form factors as a whole are problematic and always will be, is the only part (given that its a rather sweeping conclusion based on statistically insignificant data), that is really unsupported, and to their credit the authors don't push this conclusion very hard.
Just last week 77.9% of all Kindle Fire reviews were either 1 or 2 stars. Now it suddenly rockets up to a 4 star rating. This seems kind of curious to me.
"Stars" are a pretty useless way to rate anything though. There is a built in ambiguity in regards how many stars equals "good" or "bad," no requirement to think about your decision, and nothing to stop people (including large corporations like Amazon itself), from 'gaming' the results.
The star system could easily be replaced by two 'love it' and 'hate it' buttons in terms of the accuracy of what it portrays, and most of the time is just made up anyway. Anyone who follows this kind of purchase advice, is likely still under the impression that 'best seller' lists actually tell you what people have been reading lately.
I have not used a Fire, so I can't really comment on the review myself, but some of Jakob Nielsen's past reviews leave me suspicious. Here is what he thought about the ipad after a similar study when it first came out link
took a look at the Amazon reviewer ratings right now for both the Fire and iPad2.
The Fire got 47% 5 star ratings, but also 21% 1 or 2 star ratings.
The iPad2 got 61% 5 star ratings, and only 13% 1 or 2 star ratings.
this can be spun various ways, but even on Amazon's home turf the iPad gets a better buyer satisfaction score. it will also be interesting to see if the Fire rating changes much after the initial hype period passes.
Comments
You two should actually read the article. The statement was on mobile sites the 7" form factor was very nice. On FULL sites it didn't work very well.
Do you surf using full sites on your phone? I don't even on the iPhone unless I don't need to do more than click a link or two. Even then there's a lot of pinch zooming going on. If there's any login or forms entry to do I let it default to the mobile version.
Even just for content consumption, well designed mobile sites largely work better than full sites.
Yes I do surf full sites on my phone. A quick zoom and even the smallest print is readable. I only use it occassionally and for only a few sites. Its great to have in my pocket when I need it but otherwise I would use something bigger.
The Kindle Fire isn't the fastest tablet. That being said, I don't have nearly the amount of problems that the author of this article has. I'm able to read books, surf the web, and play quite a few games. Is it all perfect? No. Has any mobile device really been perfect? No. It is pretty usable, and sometimes I think we, as a group, just like to complain.
I wouldn't like this to be my only tablet. It isn't the fastest thing in the world. The lack of the Google ecosystem, means I don't get the cooler Reader, Docs, and Calendar apps. As a reference device when coding, or something to slip in a jacket pocket, or something to read while laying in bed, this device is way more than adequate.
The problem is that you have a high-end tablet that delivers solid performance across a wide delivery envelope, being comparing to a next generation ereader with additional capacity and abilities. But, to use the whole argument "Is it perfect? No. - but then nothing is" is very silly. Of course nothing is perfect, and nothing will be - so the argument is null. You spent upwards of 80 words to say "it doesn't suck". We all can agree it's better than nothing. Or better than the previous Kindle model. It's not better than an iPad, it may not even be better than a Galaxy Tab, Acer Iconium, or Sony Tablet S. It most likely IS good enough for the money spent on it.
It's the same thing for the HP TouchPad, and that thing blows bigtime.
It has 4 stars on Amazon and 647 reviews.
Crazy, fanatical people will convince themselves of anything.
I don't care if something has 6 stars on Amazon (yeah, I know 5 is the limit
I own an iPad 2 and the HP Touchpad. The Touchpad doesn't suck and in fact it is pretty good, IF you "jailbreak" it with preware and install the latest patches for the advanced browser, touch sensitivity and increase the cpu to 1.5 - 1.8ghz. Having done this, the TP is a real joy to use. Only downside is lack of apps, which is why it is relegated to the minor leagues behind my ipad.
Here's what I can say about the iPhones/iPod:
* Apps never ever crash.
* Apple designed apps especially never ever crash (*cough* Safari *cough*).
* They never lockup or crash system-wide.
* They never "brick" during a routine update, which would force techie users to Google how to boot the device to DFU mode, and would force non-techie users to call Apple support (thankfully this never ever happens).
* I have never, ever, not once, clicked on the wrong thing.
* I have never, ever ran into a bad UI design.
* I have never, ever played with a demo iOS device in the store that was not working properly, even though hundreds of people have been using and abusing it before me.
Compared to my family's perfect iOS devices, the Kindle Fire is complete crap!
(Yes this is sarcasm.)
If actual buyers were given a one time pin for reviewing then I think we'd get a more honest opinion.
Until then... reviews on websites mean nothing to me.
I never trust product review's by users. And this is why:
http://www.freelancer.com/search/product+reviews/
You two should actually read the article. The statement was on mobile sites the 7" form factor was very nice. On FULL sites it didn't work very well.
Do you surf using full sites on your phone? I don't even on the iPhone unless I don't need to do more than click a link or two. Even then there's a lot of pinch zooming going on. If there's any login or forms entry to do I let it default to the mobile version.
Even just for content consumption, well designed mobile sites largely work better than full sites.
Ahh yes I do! Full sites or nothing for me. I hate those dreaded mobile sites I can't change back to a full site. Talk about half the experience. Pinch to zoom works so well why wouldn't I use the full site.
ok, so I bought a Kindle Fire and a basic new Kindle e-reader at Walmart. I found the Fire to be fine for bookreading which is supposed to be it's primary use but funny how the article mostly talks about everything else on it. As for web page viewing it sucked. The font for one was just not right and it was slow zooming in on pages. I wouldn't use it for web page viewing that much. I love my new Kindle e-reader though (my first one I ever bought) so I returned the Fire since I already have an iPad2 and kept the new Kindle e-reader.
My mom on the other-hand prefers to read her books on a tablet over an e-reader. She's older and prefers the backlit display so, really trying to consider either getting her the Fire (again) or the iPad. She probably won't do too much with it other than book read so I gearing towards rebuying the Fire again for that reason alone for her. She thought the e-reader was too dull for her. hahaha
Any parent though who thinks little Katie will be perfectly happy with the Fire thus freeing up mom's iPad will have to deal with a very disappointed child.
It's ironic that the cheaper device is actually more suited to an adult's needs. (Well the subset of adult's who mainly want to purchase & read e-books, and occasionally surf the web or run an app.)
I don't see how the other vendors don't realize that releasing a half finished device doesn't help your product. The iPad was a hit because all the features it did include worked well.
What's with the Fire browser? Does Apple has a patent on the tap to zoom that makes reading a large website very easy and natural?
So, in 3 minutes, my Kindle Fire experience was:
- it would NOT load a web page
- it would NOT load applications
- it would NOT open a book
Not to mention all the struggle to find how to go "home" or basic simple navigation.
One may say it was a demo unit and thus could be damaged. My question would be: have you ever found a "damaged" demo iPad?
I wanted it to be good, competition is good, and the more the better products we would have. But the Kindle... I would stick with the first one for the e-ink.
I don't think you even gave it a chance! I agree that's a bad store presentation of a demo. They probably didn't have it connected to WiFi. Yes, I know the laptops were but did you see any WiFi bars at the top to see if it was connected? I think you were just looking for a quick reason to not like it so you could feel confident in your iPad purchase.
Come back when you have actually purchased and played with it for more than an hour.
...At least, unlike Windows, people aren't pretending that the user experience is great.
Well, yea, but it's only $199.00!
...At least, unlike Windows, people aren't pretending that the user experience is great.
Most Windows users don't/didn't have anything else to gauge their experience by. Now with Apple Stores people can test out Macs, and before that many Windows users had iPods and then iPhones, and now iPads.
By now I'd think many getting a Kindle Fire have at least owned or played with someone's iPod Touch, iPhone or iPad so they have a very comparable method to see if it's good or bad.
I'm reading and typing this on a 7" BB Playbook, and I like the 7" screen. It fits in my coat pocket. My iPad never leaves home. If I need to take a bag, I take my MBP with me.
Not to get too personal, but are you old enough to need reading glasses? Do you also enjoy the web on a smartphone?
I've heard that the web can be too small to be enjoyable on a 7" device, and I've heard that with most default mobile websites, the experience is fine. I haven't played with a 7 incher long enough to form my own opinion. The Galaxy tab 8.9 seems to be the perfect size to me, but I don't have a strong opinion on the subject.
Do you use regular websites or mobile websites for the most part? Other than portability, do you recommend the 7" size? Is the keyboard too small to be useful?
I own two iPhone 4's. My wife has an iPhone 4 as well. My daughters use our iPod Touch 4g. All are running the latest public build of iOS 5. We also have a Kindle Fire.
Traitor!
iPad apps are inconsistent and have low feature discoverability, with frequent user errors due to accidental gestures. An overly strong print metaphor and weird interaction styles cause further usability problems.
a year later:
iPad apps are much improved, but new usability problems have emerged, such as swipe ambiguity and navigation overload.
Maybe his test audience has unusually large fingers? :-)
It's amazing that nearly 5 years after Apple raised the bar and showed the world quality touch interfaces and hardware, other companies continue to make touch products that they know are junk.
Reminds me of the scene in the move "Crazy People" where the ad execs try to recreate the wildly successful ad copy that the crazy people did, but they can't.
4 people! As a study it is pretty much useless ...
I'm rolling out of my chair over here. Perhaps for the faithful here at AI, a "4 man study", of which I'm sure at least 3 are i-Fans ...
A small study like this is statistically insignificant or insignificant in terms of determining sales trends, big numbers etc., but it isn't "useless." It's a review of usability based on the experiences of a carefully selected, unbiased group of users familiar wih the technology.
It's pretty clear that if the study were done with a wider group of people, some of whom aren't familiar with the devices at all, and some who have experience but are hopelessly biased, the result would have been worse for the Fire.
I also think that most everyone here, including the authors of the study seem to be ignoring the fact that the Fire is really a modified "Playbook" and as such is a classic "placeholder device" which exists primarily for market driven reasons. Of course it's going to be awful. That's a given with manoeuvres of this sort. The real competition heats up with Kindle Fire 2.0 next year (not that I'm holding my breath for a quality product even then).
The part of the study where they extrapolate from the results (based on the user feedback no doubt), that 7" form factors as a whole are problematic and always will be, is the only part (given that its a rather sweeping conclusion based on statistically insignificant data), that is really unsupported, and to their credit the authors don't push this conclusion very hard.
Just last week 77.9% of all Kindle Fire reviews were either 1 or 2 stars. Now it suddenly rockets up to a 4 star rating. This seems kind of curious to me.
"Stars" are a pretty useless way to rate anything though. There is a built in ambiguity in regards how many stars equals "good" or "bad," no requirement to think about your decision, and nothing to stop people (including large corporations like Amazon itself), from 'gaming' the results.
The star system could easily be replaced by two 'love it' and 'hate it' buttons in terms of the accuracy of what it portrays, and most of the time is just made up anyway. Anyone who follows this kind of purchase advice, is likely still under the impression that 'best seller' lists actually tell you what people have been reading lately.
I have not used a Fire, so I can't really comment on the review myself, but some of Jakob Nielsen's past reviews leave me suspicious. Here is what he thought about the ipad after a similar study when it first came out link
a year later:
Maybe his test audience has unusually large fingers? :-)
Is he talking about iPads or iPad apps?
The Fire got 47% 5 star ratings, but also 21% 1 or 2 star ratings.
The iPad2 got 61% 5 star ratings, and only 13% 1 or 2 star ratings.
this can be spun various ways, but even on Amazon's home turf the iPad gets a better buyer satisfaction score. it will also be interesting to see if the Fire rating changes much after the initial hype period passes.