Argentina blocks iPhone sales in bid to strengthen economy

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  • Reply 101 of 122
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by professorsteve View Post


    Blocking the iphone imports is clearly a violation of international trade law. The Obama Administration should lodge a lawsuit against Argentina at the World Trade Organization



    Yeah, it would do Obama lots of good to lodge a lawsuit to force Argentina to buy imported goods from China. I could see the GOP feasting on that.



    The ones who need to file are the Chinese. Unfortunately, China violates so many WTO rules it would be trivial for Argentina to block even more imports in one way or the other.



    This is hardball and there is nothing wrong with that. What´s wrong is that the move is bad for Argentina´s technological development, so it will cost the country more than it will gain. The sum of many poor policies such as this one results in an uncompetitive economy, which is what they have.



    What they should ban are imports of cheap toxic toys and non-RoHS compliant electronics. Ban the obsolete, not the leading edge.



    In the 1980´s, virtually all electronics imports had been banned outright. Did it result in growth? Of course not. Local assembly of foreign parts is just importation under another name, but costlier. It just leads to reduced choice and high prices, in exchange for a few assembly jobs. Worse, it stifled software developers, who can add more value than assemblers.



    Incredibly, they seem to be heading in the same direction again. Stupid, as I said.
  • Reply 102 of 122
    Why are countries that speak Spanish so effed up?
  • Reply 103 of 122
    Hey, guess what, while you're all talking about Argentina as if you even knew where it is located, our lives keep moving on with or without iPhones



    The thing is, people here prefers Android phones and BlackBerrys and it's been like that since before the iPhone was first released.



    Apple didn't give a shit about Argentina before. It took them a million years to release the iPhone here (3G was the first one), and another million years to release each new version. That was back when there was no importing issues.



    People here just don't like iPhones. I'm an iPhone user since the 3GS was released here and I can tell you I only know ONE other person that has an iPhone.



    We're the only Latin American country where Android has a bigger marketshare than iOS, and it's not because of the "ban". People here just prefers Androids.







    As for learning from old mistakes... our local industry was completely destroyed during the 90's because we imported every thing (it was cheaper to import because of our fake dollar rate).



    We won't import a single screw anymore if we can make it here.
  • Reply 104 of 122
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by edgardito View Post


    I live in Argentina, and I'm a Mac user.

    The whole thing is Bullsh*t. There is a ban on every electronic product that do not put money under the table for the current government. They request a Plant, but it could be ANY plant.

    Imagine that Apple ships iPhones to argentina (no local manufacturing whatsoever), and they build in Argentina a local plant to manufacture the box they use to ship the iPhone.... Then it is ok to sell the iPhone in Argentina.



    The problem with Apple, is that Apple has pretty boxes, and the others manufacturers (nokia, LG, Samsung, Motorola) ship in a plain brown box.



    I know this sounds extremely silly... it is.



    I don't care that much about the iPhone, the real problem is the ban on Laptops and desktop. You can only buy on retail stores shitty re-branded Acer / Asus laptops (which spot a local brand) but are only assembled in here (they import the laptops pieces (main board, LCD, case) and they put them together).



    If you plan to visit Argentina, bring an iPhone 4S with you, you can sell it for more than twice you paid for it.



    God... yeah, the boxes... that's it... you're a genius. What a wasted talent...
  • Reply 105 of 122
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by edgardito View Post


    I live in Argentina, and I'm a Mac user.

    The whole thing is Bullsh*t. There is a ban on every electronic product that do not put money under the table for the current government. They request a Plant, but it could be ANY plant.

    Imagine that Apple ships iPhones to argentina (no local manufacturing whatsoever), and they build in Argentina a local plant to manufacture the box they use to ship the iPhone.... Then it is ok to sell the iPhone in Argentina.



    The problem with Apple, is that Apple has pretty boxes, and the others manufacturers (nokia, LG, Samsung, Motorola) ship in a plain brown box.



    I know this sounds extremely silly... it is.



    I don't care that much about the iPhone, the real problem is the ban on Laptops and desktop. You can only buy on retail stores shitty re-branded Acer / Asus laptops (which spot a local brand) but are only assembled in here (they import the laptops pieces (main board, LCD, case) and they put them together).



    If you plan to visit Argentina, bring an iPhone 4S with you, you can sell it for more than twice you paid for it.



    How long before Kirchner gone?



    And what if they still banned it when iPad plants in Brazil is up? Will Dilma tell Kirchner to knock it off should Brazilian-made Apple goods fall under MERCUSOR? No harm's done for it will be one scary woman against another.
  • Reply 106 of 122
    cameronjcameronj Posts: 2,357member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ktappe View Post


    Why not whip up a small iPhone plant in Argentina? In fact, Apple should be moving to spread its manufacturing so it doesn't have a single point of failure in case some big disaster (earthquake?) hits China. Spread the risk.



    First Brazil. Now Argentina says make them here or don't sell them here. If Apple caves to this, what's to stop every country from demanding the same thing? It'll happen.
  • Reply 107 of 122
    cameronjcameronj Posts: 2,357member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by flexo View Post


    Hey, guess what, while you're all talking about Argentina as if you even knew where it is located, our lives keep moving on with or without iPhones



    The thing is, people here prefers Android phones and BlackBerrys and it's been like that since before the iPhone was first released.



    Apple didn't give a shit about Argentina before. It took them a million years to release the iPhone here (3G was the first one), and another million years to release each new version. That was back when there was no importing issues.



    People here just don't like iPhones. I'm an iPhone user since the 3GS was released here and I can tell you I only know ONE other person that has an iPhone.



    We're the only Latin American country where Android has a bigger marketshare than iOS, and it's not because of the "ban". People here just prefers Androids.







    As for learning from old mistakes... our local industry was completely destroyed during the 90's because we imported every thing (it was cheaper to import because of our fake dollar rate).



    We won't import a single screw anymore if we can make it here.



    You might want to read your own chart before you post.



    Yeah, Android has 33% and Apple has 28%. So that explains why you've never seen another iPhone around right? Oh and that BB that you say people just prefer? 3%? Wow. Clearly you're right about your people Duh



    Also that economic theory you stated at the end is just clueless. Talk about lurching from one failed government interference policy to another. Just open it up! Then the markets magically push every country to do what they do best and stop doing what they do poorly or expensively. Stupid.
  • Reply 108 of 122
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Fairthrope View Post


    How long before Kirchner gone?



    And what if they still banned it when iPad plants in Brazil is up? Will Dilma tell Kirchner to knock it off should Brazilian-made Apple goods fall under MERCUSOR? No harm's done for it will be one scary woman against another.



    Brasil is the 6th largest economy in the world. They have a really strong industry. MERCOSUR is an strategic alliance here in the south, but the situation is tense due to the inclusion of Venezuela in Mercosur. It is sponsored by Argentina, but Venezuela is not a Full-Member of Mercosur, mainly because Brasil opposes to it.



    I hope iPhones and iPads are built in Brasil, because they will get easily in here. Brasil has a lot of leverage, and they can easily manufacture iPhones. Argentina represent a VERY SMALL market for anyone if you compare it to Brasil.



    CFK (Cristina Fernandez de Kirchner) has a lot of support in here (54%) mainly because they put hundreds of millions in scholarships, financial assistance to the poor, health care .... Most of the people in here can not afford iPhones ( Mobile Operators used to sell them for nearly 600u$s with a two year contract) and they see this kind of governments acts as a positive thing.

    I guess people in Argentina still didn't realize how small we are (only 40M people) in a worldwide economy, how little leverage and barging power we have.



    I will always believe that every Argentinian has a Texans inside (we believe we are the greatest in everything... we have the greatest wonders of nature, the greatest food, the most beautiful women, etc).
  • Reply 109 of 122
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by flexo View Post


    God... yeah, the boxes... that's it... you're a genius. What a wasted talent...



    Yup, Boxes. I work for an Electronic Company who assembles Phone Chargers. They manufacture the Chargers so Motorola can sell phones in here. It is a great factory... 10 employee take a PCB with all the components soldered to it imported from China, two pieces of plastic (also imported from China), glue them together and put it in the box with the phone and the manual (the manual is local printed thanks to god).



    Thanks CFK, you created a total of 10 highly qualified electronic jobs.



    On the other side, I teach at a local university, and have 20 students (all old enough to vote) taking a basic computers course, which they keep failing because they receive a scholarship as long as they take the course.



    We have a bigger problem in here than iPhones....
  • Reply 110 of 122
    As edgardito said, we have far more concerning problems here than a ban on apple products. Apple won't care about losing this market and probably 97% of our country won't give a damn about not having apple stuff. They will prolly buy stuff ovearseas as we always do when it comes to this kind of things.



    Let me give you an example, if you want to buy a laptop here, let's say a Sony Vaio. You'll pay twice as much than you pay in the US. So if you're talking about a US$1400 laptop, you end up paying twice that amount.

    roundtrip ticket to miami = US$700-900

    Do the math...



    The only thing is bypassing customs... oh right, you can get the guy that selled you the laptop to give you a copy of the bill for US$300 and you pay nothing at all.



    About the falklands/malvinas occupation: what can I say? they were occupied by Spain till 1811, they left and we ocuppied the islands in 1820 till they were invaded by the brits in 1833. You figure it out.



    About the Falklands/Malvinas war, try reading some books like "No Picnic" by Julian Thompson or "One Hundred Days: Memoirs of the Falklands Battle Group Commander" by Sandy Woodward.
  • Reply 111 of 122
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by skottichan View Post


    We need to stop using the incorrect term "Third World Nation", I believe what most of you are looking for is "Least Developed Nations", Third World was a Cold War term for nations not allied with NATO (First World) and the Soviet Bloc (Second World).



    I, too, wonder at referring to Argentina as part of the third world. My understanding of the "worlds" is the Old World (Europe), the New World (the Americas), and the Third World (the rest, mostly former European colonies which remain economic backwaters). Argentina certainly has its share of old world-level institutions, but, by economic standards, it has slid since the currency collapse several years back.



    Still, protectionism is unlikely to fix the country's woes.
  • Reply 112 of 122
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by cameronj View Post


    Ugh... so much wrong. I'll just give you some reading material for your ps: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...PP)_per_capita



    Your economy is worse than just about all european countries.



    Take econ 101. Please.



    "High inflation has been a weakness of the Argentine economy for decades.[64] Officially hovering around 9% since 2006, inflation has been privately estimated at over 20%,[65] becoming a contentious issue again. The urban income poverty rate has dropped to 18% as of mid-2008, a third of the peak level observed in 2002, though still above the level prior to 1976.[66][67] Income distribution, having improved since 2002, is still considerably unequal.[68][69]

    Argentina ranks 105th out of 178 countries in the Transparency International's Corruption Perceptions Index for 2010.[70] Reported problems include both government and private-sector corruption, the latter of which include money laundering, trafficking in narcotics and contraband, and tax evasion.[71] The Kirchner administration responded to the Global financial crisis of 2008?2009 with a record public-works program, new tax cuts and subsidies,[72][73] and the transfer of private pensions to the social security system. Private pension plans, which required growing subsidies to cover, were nationalized to shed a budgetary drain as well as to finance high government spending and debt obligations.[74][75]"



    From Wiki





    So you mean that the Argentinian economy is double so good than the Chinese, and the American 6 or 7 times as good? I think you should compare other things, like the growth of the economy, the cost of living and compared economy, HDI, etc... Argentina has a 9% economy growth in USD, but still is not really well distributed. What's the American economical growth for 2011?
  • Reply 113 of 122
    MacProMacPro Posts: 19,523member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by msimpson View Post


    Occupy Argentina.



    If anyone does at least teach them that using your hands to score goals in football (soccer) is not the correct way to do it.
  • Reply 114 of 122
    That'll backfire. It's unrealistic. Imagine if every country in the world demanded local plants/factories be built in order to sell a product there - it's unsustainable, there's just too many countries on the globe to make that work. That's counterproductive to international trade. Do they not understand all the businesses they're hurting in their country by blocking sales of any particular item?



    ...Of course if Argentina follows through on this idea, what will happen is a company will set up a one room "plant" where they'll have a guy who receives all the devices via FedEx, puts them in individual boxes and ships 'em out again. Viola! Local factory. I visualize 5 mile long "office parks" with thousands of 10'x10' "offices" each employing 1 guy stuffing boxes all day long dotting the countryside.
  • Reply 115 of 122
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mytdave View Post


    That'll backfire. It's unrealistic. Imagine if every country in the world demanded local plants/factories be built in order to sell a product there - it's unsustainable, there's just too many countries on the globe to make that work. That's counterproductive to international trade. Do they not understand all the businesses they're hurting in their country by blocking sales of any particular item?



    ...Of course if Argentina follows through on this idea, what will happen is a company will set up a one room "plant" where they'll have a guy who receives all the devices via FedEx, puts them in individual boxes and ships 'em out again. Viola! Local factory. I visualize 5 mile long "office parks" with thousands of 10'x10' "offices" each employing 1 guy stuffing boxes all day long dotting the countryside.



    That's what happens here.



    Still, the math is quite simple, if you buy more than what you sell, the difference must come from somewhere.



    That's the reason why they ban certain items.



    For instance, if you import stuff over here, you must export something for them same amount at least.

    BMW had its cars locked at customs for months till they decided to export... i don't remember waht it was.



    The reason: trade balance.
  • Reply 116 of 122
    Sadly, the iPhone is looked as a luxury item in here.



    No one gives a tiny rat ass about the ban in here... most people who can afford an iPhone 4S can also afford a roundtrip ticket to Miami or Europe to get one.

    It is more important for me that Apple sells no-contract iPhone for $650, than to be able to get it locally.



    While RIM is struggling to stay high on the smartphone market with their crappy products and their subsidize message service, in here (Argentina) people buys Blackberrys like crazy because they can send free SMS to each other.



    Apple way of doing business won't work in Argentina. Who will pay 5 bucks video rental when they can watch the movie streamed for free at Cuevana.tv (and do not mind about quality).



    If you are planning to visit some place for vacationing, come to Argentina... we have lovely places (Falls, Montains, Glaciars,), all climates, a nice meat-based cuisine, but don't even think about buying something retail (like a cellphone, a TV, a Fridge...)
  • Reply 117 of 122
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ezduzit View Post


    i guess they can replace the iphones with a boat load of nokia phones.



    they've got containers full of them. hurry up!!



    or Motorola, Nokia or Samsung..
  • Reply 118 of 122
    cameronjcameronj Posts: 2,357member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by danielguas View Post


    So you mean that the Argentinian economy is double so good than the Chinese, and the American 6 or 7 times as good? I think you should compare other things, like the growth of the economy, the cost of living and compared economy, HDI, etc... Argentina has a 9% economy growth in USD, but still is not really well distributed. What's the American economical growth for 2011?



    Those stats are GDP per head at PPP, that is purchasing power parity. So if American GDP P/C at PPP is $10 and Argentina is $1, an American can buy 10x as many typically priced dinners out, cars on the local market, units of housing, etc.



    In other words, GPD per head at PPP is the only relevant number when comparing how various economies are doing. It tells you how well off each citizen is.



    Growth in an economy is TOTALLY pointless. For instance, if your country's economy grew 9% last year, did you get 9% more of anything in your life? Did you get a 9% raise?



    GDP growth ignores population growth and inflation. If a burger in Argentina went from $1 to $1.06 this year, and your population grew by 5%, then the wealth available to each person in the economy to actually spend fell in the year. Is that the case? I don't know. But I'd rather be rich and be able to buy lots of things than live in a country with fast growing GDP and be very poor.



    Here is the list of the fastest growing countries in 2010:

    Code:


    RankCountryRate

    1 Qatar16.272

    2 Singapore15.270

    3 Paraguay14.400

    4 India11.1

    5 Republic of China (Taiwan)10.8

    6 People's Republic of China10.300

    7 Turkmenistan9.222

    8 Argentina9.161

    9 Sri Lanka9.134

    10 Congo, Republic of9.090

    11 Zimbabwe9.006

    12 Peru8.795

    13 Botswana8.562

    14 Uzbekistan8.500

    15 Uruguay8.468

    16 Nigeria8.394

    17 Afghanistan8.227

    18 Turkey8.200

    19 Yemen8.016

    20 Ethiopia8.008







    Tell me what strikes you about that list, when you compare it to the list of countries with the highest GDP per capita:



    Code:


    35 Qatar105.999

    102 Luxembourg86.645

    151 Singapore62.095

    121 Norway54.657

    76 Hong Kong51.602

    26 Brunei49.925

    51 United Arab Emirates49.472

    56 United States49.055

    158 Switzerland44.326

    124 Netherlands43.160

    11 Austria42.774

    157 Sweden42.495

    10 Australia42.112

    94 Kuwait41.838

    34 Canada41.326

    82 Ireland40.650

    161 Taiwan39.891

    83 Iceland39.050

    3 Germany38.902

    46 Denmark38.605

    17 Belgium38.387









    Tell me, which one of those lists would you like to be a citizen of? Did you happen to notice that the only country on both lists (Singapore) happens to be a vanguard to laissez faire capitalism?
  • Reply 119 of 122
    Nope. Back in the late 50's, Nehru of India and Tito of Yugoslavia decided they could get better deals at the UN if they organised a "Non-Aligned Movement". The UN was then split into two virtual blocs, Western vs Soviet. The NAM became the 3rd Bloc, which set up a system of selling their votes as a group to either of the other two. To ensure more amusement, most of the countries in the NAM were also members of "Socialism International", which was financed by the Soviets. To make things easier for the news media to understand, the unofficial designators for the three groups became: 'Western', 'Soviet' and 'Third World'.



    Cheers
  • Reply 120 of 122
    For those who wish to cite a report that Apple would build iPads in Brazil, note that Apple does no manufacturing on it's own: it contracts such to others. Thus the news was that "Foxconn" of China was planning a factory in Brazil to build iPads. Apple's interest would be with costs and quality, but not with the actual factory.

    Similarly, if Argentina wishes a factory to build iPhones, they need to find a company which is building iPhones elsewhere, and persuade them to do so in Argentina. Apple isn't fussed either way, they just won't build an Apple factory anywhere.

    I'd suggest that investing in an Apple import business in Montevideo would probably be quite profitable, absent interference by the government of Uruguay.



    Cheers
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