is whether their lawsuits will damage Android enough so that some people will decide that it doesn't work as nicely as they would wish, and therefor switch to iOS..
Isn't the more important question....will the smartphone manufacturers dish out $15-20 per handset to license Apple's and MS technology just to be able to use the Android OS in their devices?
How much will Apple pay others for each iPhone sold? To an extent, that's already happening, even if indirectly.
This is simply not that big a deal. But if Apple insists on the "thermonuclear" strategy and refuses to license any key technology, then the current fiasco will continue.
I am in no way trying to claim MS is doing better than Apple. I am simply saying MS is not a fail company by any means. There is a misconception that is you are not number 1 you are fail. That just is not true.
I'm not saying that MS is failing, just that if they don't change some of the way they do business, their business will suffer in the long run.
How much will Apple pay others for each iPhone sold? To an extent, that's already happening, even if indirectly.
This is simply not that big a deal. But if Apple insists on the "thermonuclear" strategy and refuses to license any key technology, then the current fiasco will continue.
I wonder whathappens when all these Chinese and Korean companies get tired of Apple's antics and decide not to renew contracts? Who then builds Apple LCDs and memory, cases ect..... Apple manufactures nothing. I understand that Apple is a payday for many but all these lawsuits will play a toll, plus some of these companies will do as they are told by their countries (China). It is a dangerous game. If Samsung pulled the plug right now on all Apple LCDs, Apple would be screwed. So would Samsung with lawsuits but Apple would be hurting while Samsung went on producing Samsung products and battle the courts for years and during those years Apple would lose billions.
Isn't the more important question....will the smartphone manufacturers dish out $15-20 per handset to license Apple's and MS technology just to be able to use the Android OS in their devices?
I keep thinking about these things. I've got to admit that I have no idea what these companies think. As Apple is making such a large part of the cell manufacturing industry's profits, I wonder just how much is made on each phone from other companies, on average. It can't be much.
How much would tip them over into a loss? If it took $10 that would be a disaster. But at least a couple of those companies are losing money, so perhaps the rest are doing somewhat better.
There's got to be some point at which they would find the business to be a loss. I would think that if Apple did recover and get to 30% worldwide, that could trigger it. But will that happen, or will they remain at 22-25%?
So going by that, how much more could companies pay in royalties? I read that the average smartphone already has $50 of royalties attached.
I keep thinking about these things. I've got to admit that I have no idea what these companies think. As Apple is making such a large part of the cell manufacturing industry's profits, I wonder just how much is made on each phone from other companies, on average. It can't be much.
How much would tip them over into a loss? If it took $10 that would be a disaster. But at least a couple of those companies are losing money, so perhaps the rest are doing somewhat better.
There's got to be some point at which they would find the business to be a loss. I would think that if Apple did recover and get to 30% worldwide, that could trigger it. But will that happen, or will they remain at 22-25%?
So going by that, how much more could companies pay in royalties? I read that the average smartphone already has $50 of royalties attached.
Understand a profit is a profit. If a company is making money, after everything is paid why would they stop? Sure it sucks when someone is dipping into your profit margins but you are still making money. If they are now making $100 per phone after everything, then Apple takes $20, they are still making $80, of course they will pass that $20 on too the consumer some how but still.
One thing people tend to forget (perhaps they weren't born yet), was Apple sued Microsoft for Windows, and lost. Of course, some state that apple stole the gui from Parc, when actually they licensed it, for a ton of Apple stock. (look it up) Thing is, they probably should have won that suit, and didn't. I hope they win all their Android suits, but $10 per Android phone would be a nice dividend for Apple stockholders. Time will tell. I doubt if they will settle.
How much will Apple pay others for each iPhone sold? To an extent, that's already happening, even if indirectly.
This is simply not that big a deal. But if Apple insists on the "thermonuclear" strategy and refuses to license any key technology, then the current fiasco will continue.
I doubt we will ever really know, it is an Apple best interest to keep the details of any deal secret. Microsoft and Apple have so many cross licensing deals I doubt any one person would claim to understand the scope of them all. We know a bit about the Nokia deal, but again most of the details are locked up.
I wonder whathappens when all these Chinese and Korean companies get tired of Apple's antics and decide not to renew contracts? Who then builds Apple LCDs and memory, cases ect..... Apple manufactures nothing. I understand that Apple is a payday for many but all these lawsuits will play a toll, plus some of these companies will do as they are told by their countries (China). It is a dangerous game. If Samsung pulled the plug right now on all Apple LCDs, Apple would be screwed. So would Samsung with lawsuits but Apple would be hurting while Samsung went on producing Samsung products and battle the courts for years and during those years Apple would lose billions.
These days, few large "manufacturers" manufacturer anything. apple can afford to do what they do because of vastly higher purchasing. In addition, no other company gives billions every years to suppliers in plant expansion, new equipment, and help in paying new workers so these companies can meet Apple's needs. These are the equivelant to business loans. And it's difficult to get those these days.
If Samsung did as you suggest, they would be in court in one minute flat, and would be in serious trouble. In addition, no other customer would ever trust them again. You just don't go behind a customers' back and copy the products you are involved in supplying parts for. You just don't.
Then Apple would switch suppliers, as everyone else would. Sansung would lose 40% of its business, and its entire board would get fired.
Understand a profit is a profit. If a company is making money, after everything is paid why would they stop? Sure it sucks when someone is dipping into your profit margins but you are still making money. If they are now making $100 per phone after everything, then Apple takes $20, they are still making $80, of course they will pass that $20 on too the consumer some how but still.
But that's the question. These companies are making far less than $100 a phone. They could be making as little as $10 a phone. With Apple making, and the number changes every quarter, about 60% of the entire industry's profits, not just smartphone profits, despite selling only about 6% of the world's phones, most phones are being sold for little, no profit, or even at a loss.
Six panel makers just settled a price-fixing suit the other day - panel prices have nowehere to go but down now in a scrap for market share. Maybe you missed that Sony just dumped Samsung in a combined LCD joint venture, originally formed to ensure Sony a steady supply of panels - apparently they figure they can do fine on the open market.
If Samsung dumped Apple, the only thing cut off would be Samsung's nose.
These days, few large "manufacturers" manufacturer anything. apple can afford to do what they do because of vastly higher purchasing. In addition, no other company gives billions every years to suppliers in plant expansion, new equipment, and help in paying new workers so these companies can meet Apple's needs. These are the equivelant to business loans. And it's difficult to get those these days.
If Samsung did as you suggest, they would be in court in one minute flat, and would be in serious trouble. In addition, no other customer would ever trust them again. You just don't go behind a customers' back and copy the products you are involved in supplying parts for. You just don't.
Then Apple would switch suppliers, as everyone else would. Sansung would lose 40% of its business, and its entire board would get fired.
I agree, right now the companies are doing what companies do but if say Samsung gets backed into a wall by Apple it would not suprise me if they pulled the plug. Sure many companies may never trust them again but since Samsung is one of very few manufactures producing LCD display's their business would be ok. Plus, Apple is suing EVERYONE and making many enemies, I do not think MS, Motorola, HTC ect.... would care if Samsung hung them out to dry. And as I stated before, many of these companies have strong "national" roots, China especially, what happens if Chinese companies pull the plug, Apple sues and China tells them to pound sand, not much. Apple is a US company and as we all know, the US has very few friends and may not find much help. This is a risky game being played and I can only see it getting ugly and ending badly. Corner a dog and it will bite.
Six panel makers just settled a price-fixing suit the other day - panel prices have nowehere to go but down now in a scrap for market share. Maybe you missed that Sony just dumped Samsung in a combined LCD joint venture, originally formed to ensure Sony a steady supply of panels - apparently they figure they can do fine on the open market.
If Samsung dumped Apple, the only thing cut off would be Samsung's nose.
And none of them are in the US. Start backing foreign companies into a corner and see what happens. It is already well known that China will quickly put money into one of its "private" companies if they need too. US companies have already filed suit against China for dumping, selling products at a massive loss inorder to gain market (solar panels). The companies taking these losses are compensated by China. The lawsuit goes nowhere because China is backing the companies. If the US doesnt want Chinese stuff, India, Pakistan and other up and coming economies do. The US used to be the major market but that is quickly going away. Apple is playing a very dangerous game.
Also, Apple is buying up tons of plants and manufactures, again on Chinese soil. Look at venezuela a few years back. Kicked out all the foreign oil companies, took all their stuff and started a state run oil company. Nothing anyone could do about it, nothing.
One thing people tend to forget (perhaps they weren't born yet), was Apple sued Microsoft for Windows, and lost. Of course, some state that apple stole the gui from Parc, when actually they licensed it, for a ton of Apple stock. (look it up) Thing is, they probably should have won that suit, and didn't. I hope they win all their Android suits, but $10 per Android phone would be a nice dividend for Apple stockholders. Time will tell. I doubt if they will settle.
I remember it well! They only lost that suit because the contracts weren't written up properly. Ms was only supposed to be allowed to use Apple's IP for the purpose of writing programs for Apple's OS, but whoever wrote the contract left loopholes. The courts usually look at the letter of the law rather than the intent, unfortunately.
"It's like a dam. Using their patents to keep rivals out is like putting rocks in a stream. The stream is going to find a way around. Wouldn't it be better to direct where the water goes?"
Maybe, but Apple thinks that it is best just to drop a thermonuclear bomb on the whole damn thing.
Start backing foreign companies into a corner and see what happens.
Who's backing who? You're positing that _Samsung_ would cut _Apple_ off cold. Sharp or any of a dozen other companies - yes, foreign companies - would kill to get the business in this environment, and the panache of being supplier to Apple.
These days, few large "manufacturers" manufacturer anything. apple can afford to do what they do because of vastly higher purchasing. In addition, no other company gives billions every years to suppliers in plant expansion, new equipment, and help in paying new workers so these companies can meet Apple's needs. These are the equivelant to business loans. And it's difficult to get those these days.
If Samsung did as you suggest, they would be in court in one minute flat, and would be in serious trouble. In addition, no other customer would ever trust them again. You just don't go behind a customers' back and copy the products you are involved in supplying parts for. You just don't.
Then Apple would switch suppliers, as everyone else would. Sansung would lose 40% of its business, and its entire board would get fired.
Not everyone wants Apple's capital investment. It's not necessarily charity either - Apple is doing it to secure supply and deep discount. In fact, quite a few suppliers have turned down Apple's offer in the past.
Well, it would be more like 4.5% of Samsung's business. You know, there are other customers like Sony (#1 or about $12billion), HP (#3), Dell (#4), Verizon (#5) still in good business relation with Samsung.
Who's backing who? You're positing that _Samsung_ would cut _Apple_ off cold. Sharp or any of a dozen other companies - yes, foreign companies - would kill to get the business in this environment, and the panache of being supplier to Apple.
Samsung is an example and hypothetical, my future predicting skills need work. Sure many of these companies would love to have Apples business but A - Many of them would take months to get set up to produce what Apple may need if not years which would destroy Apple B - I am also talking about countries (China) that are not democratic and will do as they are told by their country. Apple is playing on a playground where there are rules and people are playing fair but if the time ever comes, those rules and fairness can quickly evaporate. Especially if say China feels Apple owns too much Chinese property or Apple is threatening China in some manner, China will crush them and no one is going to care except Apple. China makes everything, China also produces over 90% of the meterial needed for modern batteries and electronics. You think Apple has allot of money in the bank, China's bank account is insane. China is positioning itself to be the world power, I hate to admit that but the writing is on the wall and some petty company is not going to change that. Sure Apple is the most valued company in the world but that would change quickly if China got a wild hair and cut them off, all Apple production gets stopped, China pays the companies that are affected, everyone is happy except Apple. And it could be as simple as a pride thing, China may feel insulted by Apple slapping chinese companies around, China may decide to do a little of its own slapping, say a 6 month hold on all Apple products for inspection purposes?????
Comments
is whether their lawsuits will damage Android enough so that some people will decide that it doesn't work as nicely as they would wish, and therefor switch to iOS..
Isn't the more important question....will the smartphone manufacturers dish out $15-20 per handset to license Apple's and MS technology just to be able to use the Android OS in their devices?
This is simply not that big a deal. But if Apple insists on the "thermonuclear" strategy and refuses to license any key technology, then the current fiasco will continue.
I am in no way trying to claim MS is doing better than Apple. I am simply saying MS is not a fail company by any means. There is a misconception that is you are not number 1 you are fail. That just is not true.
I'm not saying that MS is failing, just that if they don't change some of the way they do business, their business will suffer in the long run.
How much will Apple pay others for each iPhone sold? To an extent, that's already happening, even if indirectly.
This is simply not that big a deal. But if Apple insists on the "thermonuclear" strategy and refuses to license any key technology, then the current fiasco will continue.
I wonder whathappens when all these Chinese and Korean companies get tired of Apple's antics and decide not to renew contracts? Who then builds Apple LCDs and memory, cases ect..... Apple manufactures nothing. I understand that Apple is a payday for many but all these lawsuits will play a toll, plus some of these companies will do as they are told by their countries (China). It is a dangerous game. If Samsung pulled the plug right now on all Apple LCDs, Apple would be screwed. So would Samsung with lawsuits but Apple would be hurting while Samsung went on producing Samsung products and battle the courts for years and during those years Apple would lose billions.
Isn't the more important question....will the smartphone manufacturers dish out $15-20 per handset to license Apple's and MS technology just to be able to use the Android OS in their devices?
I keep thinking about these things. I've got to admit that I have no idea what these companies think. As Apple is making such a large part of the cell manufacturing industry's profits, I wonder just how much is made on each phone from other companies, on average. It can't be much.
How much would tip them over into a loss? If it took $10 that would be a disaster. But at least a couple of those companies are losing money, so perhaps the rest are doing somewhat better.
There's got to be some point at which they would find the business to be a loss. I would think that if Apple did recover and get to 30% worldwide, that could trigger it. But will that happen, or will they remain at 22-25%?
So going by that, how much more could companies pay in royalties? I read that the average smartphone already has $50 of royalties attached.
I keep thinking about these things. I've got to admit that I have no idea what these companies think. As Apple is making such a large part of the cell manufacturing industry's profits, I wonder just how much is made on each phone from other companies, on average. It can't be much.
How much would tip them over into a loss? If it took $10 that would be a disaster. But at least a couple of those companies are losing money, so perhaps the rest are doing somewhat better.
There's got to be some point at which they would find the business to be a loss. I would think that if Apple did recover and get to 30% worldwide, that could trigger it. But will that happen, or will they remain at 22-25%?
So going by that, how much more could companies pay in royalties? I read that the average smartphone already has $50 of royalties attached.
Understand a profit is a profit. If a company is making money, after everything is paid why would they stop? Sure it sucks when someone is dipping into your profit margins but you are still making money. If they are now making $100 per phone after everything, then Apple takes $20, they are still making $80, of course they will pass that $20 on too the consumer some how but still.
Yeah, making money is such a waste.
Apple actually is making money...
How much will Apple pay others for each iPhone sold? To an extent, that's already happening, even if indirectly.
This is simply not that big a deal. But if Apple insists on the "thermonuclear" strategy and refuses to license any key technology, then the current fiasco will continue.
I doubt we will ever really know, it is an Apple best interest to keep the details of any deal secret. Microsoft and Apple have so many cross licensing deals I doubt any one person would claim to understand the scope of them all. We know a bit about the Nokia deal, but again most of the details are locked up.
Apple actually is making money...
No one said the were not, but thanks for pointing that out.
I wonder whathappens when all these Chinese and Korean companies get tired of Apple's antics and decide not to renew contracts? Who then builds Apple LCDs and memory, cases ect..... Apple manufactures nothing. I understand that Apple is a payday for many but all these lawsuits will play a toll, plus some of these companies will do as they are told by their countries (China). It is a dangerous game. If Samsung pulled the plug right now on all Apple LCDs, Apple would be screwed. So would Samsung with lawsuits but Apple would be hurting while Samsung went on producing Samsung products and battle the courts for years and during those years Apple would lose billions.
These days, few large "manufacturers" manufacturer anything. apple can afford to do what they do because of vastly higher purchasing. In addition, no other company gives billions every years to suppliers in plant expansion, new equipment, and help in paying new workers so these companies can meet Apple's needs. These are the equivelant to business loans. And it's difficult to get those these days.
If Samsung did as you suggest, they would be in court in one minute flat, and would be in serious trouble. In addition, no other customer would ever trust them again. You just don't go behind a customers' back and copy the products you are involved in supplying parts for. You just don't.
Then Apple would switch suppliers, as everyone else would. Sansung would lose 40% of its business, and its entire board would get fired.
Understand a profit is a profit. If a company is making money, after everything is paid why would they stop? Sure it sucks when someone is dipping into your profit margins but you are still making money. If they are now making $100 per phone after everything, then Apple takes $20, they are still making $80, of course they will pass that $20 on too the consumer some how but still.
But that's the question. These companies are making far less than $100 a phone. They could be making as little as $10 a phone. With Apple making, and the number changes every quarter, about 60% of the entire industry's profits, not just smartphone profits, despite selling only about 6% of the world's phones, most phones are being sold for little, no profit, or even at a loss.
If Samsung pulled the plug right now on all Apple LCDs, Apple would be screwed.
You seriously believe there aren't other sources for LCD panels out there?
"With slower than expected demand and excess production capacity, a persistent oversupply of inventory during 1H'11 led to a dramatic reduction in key component costs..."
Six panel makers just settled a price-fixing suit the other day - panel prices have nowehere to go but down now in a scrap for market share. Maybe you missed that Sony just dumped Samsung in a combined LCD joint venture, originally formed to ensure Sony a steady supply of panels - apparently they figure they can do fine on the open market.
If Samsung dumped Apple, the only thing cut off would be Samsung's nose.
These days, few large "manufacturers" manufacturer anything. apple can afford to do what they do because of vastly higher purchasing. In addition, no other company gives billions every years to suppliers in plant expansion, new equipment, and help in paying new workers so these companies can meet Apple's needs. These are the equivelant to business loans. And it's difficult to get those these days.
If Samsung did as you suggest, they would be in court in one minute flat, and would be in serious trouble. In addition, no other customer would ever trust them again. You just don't go behind a customers' back and copy the products you are involved in supplying parts for. You just don't.
Then Apple would switch suppliers, as everyone else would. Sansung would lose 40% of its business, and its entire board would get fired.
I agree, right now the companies are doing what companies do but if say Samsung gets backed into a wall by Apple it would not suprise me if they pulled the plug. Sure many companies may never trust them again but since Samsung is one of very few manufactures producing LCD display's their business would be ok. Plus, Apple is suing EVERYONE and making many enemies, I do not think MS, Motorola, HTC ect.... would care if Samsung hung them out to dry. And as I stated before, many of these companies have strong "national" roots, China especially, what happens if Chinese companies pull the plug, Apple sues and China tells them to pound sand, not much. Apple is a US company and as we all know, the US has very few friends and may not find much help. This is a risky game being played and I can only see it getting ugly and ending badly. Corner a dog and it will bite.
You seriously believe there aren't other sources for LCD panels out there?
"With slower than expected demand and excess production capacity, a persistent oversupply of inventory during 1H'11 led to a dramatic reduction in key component costs..."
Six panel makers just settled a price-fixing suit the other day - panel prices have nowehere to go but down now in a scrap for market share. Maybe you missed that Sony just dumped Samsung in a combined LCD joint venture, originally formed to ensure Sony a steady supply of panels - apparently they figure they can do fine on the open market.
If Samsung dumped Apple, the only thing cut off would be Samsung's nose.
And none of them are in the US. Start backing foreign companies into a corner and see what happens. It is already well known that China will quickly put money into one of its "private" companies if they need too. US companies have already filed suit against China for dumping, selling products at a massive loss inorder to gain market (solar panels). The companies taking these losses are compensated by China. The lawsuit goes nowhere because China is backing the companies. If the US doesnt want Chinese stuff, India, Pakistan and other up and coming economies do. The US used to be the major market but that is quickly going away. Apple is playing a very dangerous game.
Also, Apple is buying up tons of plants and manufactures, again on Chinese soil. Look at venezuela a few years back. Kicked out all the foreign oil companies, took all their stuff and started a state run oil company. Nothing anyone could do about it, nothing.
One thing people tend to forget (perhaps they weren't born yet), was Apple sued Microsoft for Windows, and lost. Of course, some state that apple stole the gui from Parc, when actually they licensed it, for a ton of Apple stock. (look it up) Thing is, they probably should have won that suit, and didn't. I hope they win all their Android suits, but $10 per Android phone would be a nice dividend for Apple stockholders. Time will tell. I doubt if they will settle.
I remember it well! They only lost that suit because the contracts weren't written up properly. Ms was only supposed to be allowed to use Apple's IP for the purpose of writing programs for Apple's OS, but whoever wrote the contract left loopholes. The courts usually look at the letter of the law rather than the intent, unfortunately.
"It's like a dam. Using their patents to keep rivals out is like putting rocks in a stream. The stream is going to find a way around. Wouldn't it be better to direct where the water goes?"
Maybe, but Apple thinks that it is best just to drop a thermonuclear bomb on the whole damn thing.
Start backing foreign companies into a corner and see what happens.
Who's backing who? You're positing that _Samsung_ would cut _Apple_ off cold. Sharp or any of a dozen other companies - yes, foreign companies - would kill to get the business in this environment, and the panache of being supplier to Apple.
These days, few large "manufacturers" manufacturer anything. apple can afford to do what they do because of vastly higher purchasing. In addition, no other company gives billions every years to suppliers in plant expansion, new equipment, and help in paying new workers so these companies can meet Apple's needs. These are the equivelant to business loans. And it's difficult to get those these days.
If Samsung did as you suggest, they would be in court in one minute flat, and would be in serious trouble. In addition, no other customer would ever trust them again. You just don't go behind a customers' back and copy the products you are involved in supplying parts for. You just don't.
Then Apple would switch suppliers, as everyone else would. Sansung would lose 40% of its business, and its entire board would get fired.
Not everyone wants Apple's capital investment. It's not necessarily charity either - Apple is doing it to secure supply and deep discount. In fact, quite a few suppliers have turned down Apple's offer in the past.
Well, it would be more like 4.5% of Samsung's business. You know, there are other customers like Sony (#1 or about $12billion), HP (#3), Dell (#4), Verizon (#5) still in good business relation with Samsung.
Who's backing who? You're positing that _Samsung_ would cut _Apple_ off cold. Sharp or any of a dozen other companies - yes, foreign companies - would kill to get the business in this environment, and the panache of being supplier to Apple.
Samsung is an example and hypothetical, my future predicting skills need work. Sure many of these companies would love to have Apples business but A - Many of them would take months to get set up to produce what Apple may need if not years which would destroy Apple B - I am also talking about countries (China) that are not democratic and will do as they are told by their country. Apple is playing on a playground where there are rules and people are playing fair but if the time ever comes, those rules and fairness can quickly evaporate. Especially if say China feels Apple owns too much Chinese property or Apple is threatening China in some manner, China will crush them and no one is going to care except Apple. China makes everything, China also produces over 90% of the meterial needed for modern batteries and electronics. You think Apple has allot of money in the bank, China's bank account is insane. China is positioning itself to be the world power, I hate to admit that but the writing is on the wall and some petty company is not going to change that. Sure Apple is the most valued company in the world but that would change quickly if China got a wild hair and cut them off, all Apple production gets stopped, China pays the companies that are affected, everyone is happy except Apple. And it could be as simple as a pride thing, China may feel insulted by Apple slapping chinese companies around, China may decide to do a little of its own slapping, say a 6 month hold on all Apple products for inspection purposes?????