By only selling the iMac, Apple is forcing you to: 1) buy new computers from them more often....
Except that my iMac has given me over 4 years of trouble free service (& counting). I never got anywhere near that when I ran pc's, so whilst it cost more to buy up front, no need for replacement bits combined with resale value make it great value for me
Lack of sales, lack of Intel's ability to produce timely updates, massive backlash at Apple's new pro products?
You make a valid point, still, I remember they moved away from IBM when they could get the 3GHz (on time, or ever) and Apple found a new supplier. Do you think they will axe the MP if Intel cannot deliver? I understand it's only a part of a decision like that...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
Uh, what do you mean, "what resources"? You don't think it takes time, money, and effort to build a Mac Pro? We don't have Mac Pro orchards.
Of course. But nothing like their other products, ie the iMac got a new form factor, what, 5 times already? The Mac Pro everyone thinks they don't sell because they don't redesign it. It does have way different internals, but I would think the resources devoted to the MP hardly stand out from their other products. Especially if they keep the same box, only update it with a fast processor and TB.
Good choice. I've always bought towers so I could expand, keep current display etcetera. Even though I hardly do much video editing, and so much Aperture photo stuff I love it that I can throw anything at my MP. That, and the fact that I dislike glossy screens. I know, of topic, but still relevant as the iMac only comes in glossy. With the iPhone it's ok since it's such a small screen, but I still don't like the glossy iPad screen. But the device is so great, there's no alternative; I take it as it comes. With the iMac, I am happy they also (used to) make the cinema displays. If mine were to break down, I don't know what I'd do. Possibly search for the 30" Dell - cough cough.
Trouble is that I don't think there are many people around like you - eg who specifically want a MacPro. I would suggest you are becoming a rare breed, bordering on unique.
Apple aren't trying to wind people up by canceling lines that aren't selling (eg Xserve), they are just doing what any prudent business does which is concentrating on what it does well.
Admittedly, canceling the MacPro seems an odd move, as surely they are selling more than enough to make money on but in a world that requires companies to constantly upgrade and redesign everything, and considering the current MacPro case is 6-7 years old (?), redesigning and retooling might be enough to not make it a worthwhile investment.
Apple must be a very odd place when you have iPhone teams who turn in billions for the company, whilst some poor guys in a back office make a case for selling 50k MacPros a year.
(BTW Can you name another machine that has had a case design last as long as the MacPro?)
The elephant in the room is that a laptop is also an all in one with a fixed screen, etc etc.
It seems people prefer this way of buying computers - laptops are now beginning to outsell desktops.
Actually for Apple, their notebook sales overtook desktop sales over five years ago. If you think this is beginning to change, you're way late to the party.
I'm surprised this number is so low. I could see if 33% of all OEM desktops we're Apple's iMacs, but I have a hard time believing that 2 out of 3 AIO desktop computers are not from Apple. Since we know Apple dominates the higher end of the PC market in unit sales and takes the lion's share of profits for the world's industry I can only assume there are a bunch of sub-$700 AIO desktops that I've never heard of that are sold in excessive numbers. What am I missing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AbsoluteDesignz
And some, like me, are deemed Apple hating trolls and ignored despite owning an iPad, working on a Mac and planning an iMac to replace my aging Windows PC.
Watching Oprah doesn't make you a feminist.
PS: I would never put you in the same grimy category as I put Slappy.
The MacPro is complete overkill for anything except video production and (maybe) Art & Design. You have to be a very unique user to get any real use out of a Mac Pro besides simple bragging rights.
Not sure if Art and Design really needs Mac Pro either. If design includes CAD, the likes of Solidworks (if Solidworks ever comes to Mac OS) can already run quite well on laptops. Ain't no artist and therefore cannot think of a computationally intensive art app that requires 12-core processing. Photography apps run quite well on iMacs and the like. So it's really primarily about video and scientific apps. What else?
Trouble is that I don't think there are many people around like you - eg who specifically want a MacPro. I would suggest you are becoming a rare breed, bordering on unique.
Apple aren't trying to wind people up by canceling lines that aren't selling (eg Xserve), they are just doing what any prudent business does which is concentrating on what it does well.
Admittedly, canceling the MacPro seems an odd move, as surely they are selling more than enough to make money on but in a world that requires companies to constantly upgrade and redesign everything, and considering the current MacPro case is 6-7 years old (?), redesigning and retooling might be enough to not make it a worthwhile investment.
Apple must be a very odd place when you have iPhone teams who turn in billions for the company, whilst some poor guys in a back office make a case for selling 50k MacPros a year.
(BTW Can you name another machine that has had a case design last as long as the MacPro?)
All valid points, including me becoming a rare breed - hehe.
Maybe I cannot believe the MP gets axed as I'd think they would be using it themselves. Anyone know what Apple uses as their development machines? I know their data centres run Sun boxes, amongst others. But yeah, the MP wont be a cash-cow. It's also similar priced as a more or less similar Dell (as far as one can compare the two).
From the top of my head the G5, single 1.6GHz, was released in September 2003 (I still have a working one, but stored in the attic) and can't think of a tower computer with the same design, no. Although Nokia phones come to mind. Yep, lame.
The elephant in the room is that a laptop is also an all in one with a fixed screen, etc etc.
It seems people prefer this way of buying computers - laptops are now beginning to outsell desktops.
Consumers and businesses tend to replace rather than upgrade, generally consumers don't have the awareness of how to upgrade a desktop. Businesses may find it cheaper to replace a desktop instead of committing technicians to purchasing parts and upgrading the insides of dozens to hundreds of PCs.
Granted, there is the advantage of reusing a separate monitor; screens on an environmentally conscious all in one an be recycled, perhaps even reused to repair broken or refurbished units.
A computer designed with the environment in mind can be resold if working, otherwise sent for recycling thus reducing its environmental impact.
Consider also the environmental impact of making unnecessarily large containers, components likely to remain unused, for PCs.
The G4 Cube had desktop components yet didn't do well. If Apple felt it was worthwhile making a Mini with desktop components I'm certain they would do so.
Laptops being all-in-one is a moot point in this discussion. They are that way out of necessity, not as a design choice. They are all-in-one as a secondary effect of a primary requirement, to be portable. A laptop without a screen would be kind of pointless, don't you think?
Whether consumers would ever upgrade is one thing. But if they think at the time of purchase they want the abiilty to upgrade (even if they never do), then that becomes a factor. Obviously, the biggest deciding factor of Windows vs Mac is the OS itself. But I would not be surprised if configuration was the 2nd or 3rd biggest deciding factor when choosing a computer. If you think you want to be able to add a 2nd internal hard drive, upgrade the video card, etc, you will gravitate towards a Windows PC option.
As for business, at my company, you'd be right about not usually upgrading computers. But they DO repair. Failed hard drive? Swap it out. Video card acting up? Replace it, even scavange one from another computer. And, most importantly to this conversion, if your monitor dies, they simply grab another one to replace it. With an iMac, if this happens I either have to get a whole new computer or my computer is out for repair for several days, minimum. That kind of distruption to my productivity is unacceptable.
With environmental issues. Yes, recycycling is an option. But even if every iMac is eventually recycled (and we know that is no where near reality), there are still enviromental impacts from the container, shipping, and energy to run the recycling operation. Not to mention the energy and raw materials which were used to build the "extra" monitor in the first place, and the extra shipping weight with every new CPU sold. The most environmentally friendly option is to not build the extra monitor in the first place!
(I'm not even an enviromentally friendly proponent, per se. I just think it's wasteful and ironic that a company that talks about how low-impact their manufacturing is, is neglecting the fact that not manufacturing the monitor in the first place would be even lower environmental impact. Not to mention the financial impact to my wallet!)
I was wondering the same thing...does this represent the great success of the iMac or the lack of another viable option from Apple? If you decide you want a Mac, and don't want the underpowered mini (a fine machine for basic tasks) or the very expensive Mac Pro, you don't have a choice.
I vote lack of another viable option. I want something between the mini and the Pro but I do not want an all in one. Where does that leave me? Switching to Windows after using Macs for 20 years? I'd rather not switch because I don't want to compromise on the OS. But I also don't want to compromise on my hardware needs and wants.
It is a frustrating time to be a long time Mac fan.
The Mac Pro is not a high-volume seller. It never was. And neither are the high-end workstations from HP and other manufacturers.
But if the Mac Pro isn't losing money... why kill it?
Besides... aren't there some engineers at Apple who use Mac Pros? Aren't they gonna hate to downgrade to an iMac?
That's the rub. We don't know if the continued existence of the Mac Pro is a net benefit for Apple or not. If you look at the iMac synthetic benchmarks you see a very competitive machine that, to me, looks like something Apple engineers could use. A few years ago before Apple added desktop grade CPU and GPUs, and more recently dual internal drives and Thunderbolt the difference was quite large.
When it comes to marketshare, China and India together have 40% population marketshare, the USA, like Apple, only has 5% population marketshare.
So, should the USA embark on the mother of all baby booms to seize 50% population marketshare, thinning out its resources, thus lowering the average American living standard to the level of the average Chinese and Indians living in rural poverty?
Or should the 5% USA "blip" focus on maintaining its high quality lifestyle which that 40% in India and China can only dream of?
When it comes to significant marketshare, yours is a large slice of the Appleinsider trolls: just like those beige PC box shifters, it's of little consequence.
I've already given you far more attention than you deserve.
No. Still playing with numbers. Market share worldwide is still a factual 5 to 5.3% for Mac OSX vs Windows. Fact not accounting numbers play.
Actually for Apple, their notebook sales overtook desktop sales over five years ago. If you think this is beginning to change, you're way late to the party.
I was referring to the industry as a whole, especially as the article refers to all the All in One PCs, not just those sold by Apple.
I've been aware that Apple has been selling more laptops than desktops for quite a few years.
No. Still playing with numbers. Market share worldwide is still a factual 5 to 5.3% for Mac OSX vs Windows. Fact not accounting numbers play.
Oh Snappy, Snappy, I'm almost beginning to pity you.
You're the scared rabbit caught in the bright lights of marketshare as the Apple profit juggernaut pulverises you into roadkill.
Snappy, it's you who who's fixated on playing with the 5% marketshare number, despite my analogy illustrating how meaningless marketshare can be as a number.
It's funny how you don't want to play with the $80 billion number Apple has in the bank.
That's the number you and all the other manufacturers only wish they could play with now.
Laptops being all-in-one is a moot point in this discussion. They are that way out of necessity, not as a design choice. They are all-in-one as a secondary effect of a primary requirement, to be portable. A laptop without a screen would be kind of pointless, don't you think?
This is a good point but I'll be a pedant and point out the irony of being able to run a Mac laptop with its lid closed, using only an external monitor as its display.
You can even maintain the portability by using a portable USB display.
But I wish to point out that the market currently prefers the all in one format, be it laptop or otherwise, over the separate pieces (i.e. sales of all laptops lumped together with desktop all in ones are greater than the other PC formats).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wiggin
Whether consumers would ever upgrade is one thing. But if they think at the time of purchase they want the abiilty to upgrade (even if they never do), then that becomes a factor. Obviously, the biggest deciding factor of Windows vs Mac is the OS itself. But I would not be surprised if configuration was the 2nd or 3rd biggest deciding factor when choosing a computer. If you think you want to be able to add a 2nd internal hard drive, upgrade the video card, etc, you will gravitate towards a Windows PC option.
Another good point, especially as people like to have the option "just in case" for "room to expand". I suspect the typical consumer, however, wouldn't be aware of a video card or hard drive if it slapped them in the face. It's only those of us, with a technical nature, a minority who take interest in such things. Furthermore, the rapid pace of change may make upgrading your machine more expensive than buying anew. Case in point, the rapid move from DDR2 to DDR3 memory.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wiggin
As for business, at my company, you'd be right about not usually upgrading computers. But they DO repair. Failed hard drive or Video card acting up? Replace it, even scavange one from another computer. And, most importantly to this conversion, if your monitor dies, they simply grab another one to replace it. With an iMac, if this happens I either have to get a whole new computer or my computer is out for repair for several days, minimum. That kind of distruption to my productivity is unacceptable.
This is another good point, albeit you should be backing up that hard drive, especially if it's data essential for operating the business. This is the weak point of the current iMacs, it was easier to swap out the hard drive in the past.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wiggin
With environmental issues. Yes, recycycling is an option. But even if every iMac is eventually recycled (and we know that is no where near reality), there are still enviromental impacts from the container, shipping, and energy to run the recycling operation. Not to mention the energy and raw materials which were used to build the "extra" monitor in the first place, and the extra shipping weight with every new CPU sold. The most environmentally friendly option is to not build the extra monitor in the first place!
I just think it's wasteful and ironic that a company that talks about how low-impact their manufacturing is, is neglecting the fact that not manufacturing the monitor in the first place would be even lower environmental impact. Not to mention the financial impact to my wallet!)
The issue is how long the separate monitor is used compared to the integrated ones. If it's used for more than one system, then yes, integrated monitors are wasteful. If not, then the integrated one is more friendly: one thing to transport instead of two.
Besides, the separate monitor may need replacing if you get a new, more capable video card!
I am intrigued, just what are people doing with their Macs that'll be too taxing for a Mac Mini yet be overkilled by a Mac Pro?
If it's seriously high fps games I'm happy for Apple to cede that market to gaming PCs and the consoles, if it keeps Apple focussed on the mainstream needs of most people.
Oh Snappy, Snappy, I'm almost beginning to pity you.
You're the scared rabbit caught in the bright lights of marketshare as the Apple profit juggernaut pulverises you into roadkill.
Snappy, it's you who who's fixated on playing with the 5% marketshare number, despite my analogy illustrating how meaningless marketshare can be as a number.
It's funny how you don't want to play with the $80 billion number Apple has in the bank.
That's the number you and all the other manufacturers only wish they could play with now.
We're discussing market share. Just as this article. I'm not making up numbers. My information is correct and verifiable. Apple 5 - 5.3% market share vs Windows. It quite easy to verify.
When it comes to marketshare, China and India together have 40% population marketshare, the USA, like Apple, only has 5% population marketshare.
So, should the USA embark on the mother of all baby booms to seize 50% population marketshare, thinning out its resources, thus lowering the average American living standard to the level of the average Chinese and Indians living in rural poverty?
Or should the 5% USA "blip" focus on maintaining its high quality lifestyle which that 40% in India and China can only dream of?
Ouch! That hurt! But I think you explained the marketshare thing very well.
Comments
Steve never mentioned the Mac Pro. If you think Apple are not planning on fading the Mac Pro out in the next 5 years then we may need to talk.
You think he wasn't referring to the Mac Pro? I do. So we need to talk. I've 'stated' my reasoning for them to keep the MP, what's yours?
By only selling the iMac, Apple is forcing you to: 1) buy new computers from them more often....
Except that my iMac has given me over 4 years of trouble free service (& counting). I never got anywhere near that when I ran pc's, so whilst it cost more to buy up front, no need for replacement bits combined with resale value make it great value for me
Lack of sales, lack of Intel's ability to produce timely updates, massive backlash at Apple's new pro products?
You make a valid point, still, I remember they moved away from IBM when they could get the 3GHz (on time, or ever) and Apple found a new supplier. Do you think they will axe the MP if Intel cannot deliver? I understand it's only a part of a decision like that...
Uh, what do you mean, "what resources"? You don't think it takes time, money, and effort to build a Mac Pro? We don't have Mac Pro orchards.
Of course. But nothing like their other products, ie the iMac got a new form factor, what, 5 times already? The Mac Pro everyone thinks they don't sell because they don't redesign it. It does have way different internals, but I would think the resources devoted to the MP hardly stand out from their other products. Especially if they keep the same box, only update it with a fast processor and TB.
Highly opinionated, I am today. Sorry bout that.
Good choice. I've always bought towers so I could expand, keep current display etcetera. Even though I hardly do much video editing, and so much Aperture photo stuff I love it that I can throw anything at my MP. That, and the fact that I dislike glossy screens. I know, of topic, but still relevant as the iMac only comes in glossy. With the iPhone it's ok since it's such a small screen, but I still don't like the glossy iPad screen. But the device is so great, there's no alternative; I take it as it comes. With the iMac, I am happy they also (used to) make the cinema displays. If mine were to break down, I don't know what I'd do. Possibly search for the 30" Dell - cough cough.
Trouble is that I don't think there are many people around like you - eg who specifically want a MacPro. I would suggest you are becoming a rare breed, bordering on unique.
Apple aren't trying to wind people up by canceling lines that aren't selling (eg Xserve), they are just doing what any prudent business does which is concentrating on what it does well.
Admittedly, canceling the MacPro seems an odd move, as surely they are selling more than enough to make money on but in a world that requires companies to constantly upgrade and redesign everything, and considering the current MacPro case is 6-7 years old (?), redesigning and retooling might be enough to not make it a worthwhile investment.
Apple must be a very odd place when you have iPhone teams who turn in billions for the company, whilst some poor guys in a back office make a case for selling 50k MacPros a year.
(BTW Can you name another machine that has had a case design last as long as the MacPro?)
The elephant in the room is that a laptop is also an all in one with a fixed screen, etc etc.
It seems people prefer this way of buying computers - laptops are now beginning to outsell desktops.
Actually for Apple, their notebook sales overtook desktop sales over five years ago. If you think this is beginning to change, you're way late to the party.
And some, like me, are deemed Apple hating trolls and ignored despite owning an iPad, working on a Mac and planning an iMac to replace my aging Windows PC.
Watching Oprah doesn't make you a feminist.
PS: I would never put you in the same grimy category as I put Slappy.
You are quite right. They are not at all.
The MacPro is complete overkill for anything except video production and (maybe) Art & Design. You have to be a very unique user to get any real use out of a Mac Pro besides simple bragging rights.
Not sure if Art and Design really needs Mac Pro either. If design includes CAD, the likes of Solidworks (if Solidworks ever comes to Mac OS) can already run quite well on laptops. Ain't no artist and therefore cannot think of a computationally intensive art app that requires 12-core processing. Photography apps run quite well on iMacs and the like. So it's really primarily about video and scientific apps. What else?
Trouble is that I don't think there are many people around like you - eg who specifically want a MacPro. I would suggest you are becoming a rare breed, bordering on unique.
Apple aren't trying to wind people up by canceling lines that aren't selling (eg Xserve), they are just doing what any prudent business does which is concentrating on what it does well.
Admittedly, canceling the MacPro seems an odd move, as surely they are selling more than enough to make money on but in a world that requires companies to constantly upgrade and redesign everything, and considering the current MacPro case is 6-7 years old (?), redesigning and retooling might be enough to not make it a worthwhile investment.
Apple must be a very odd place when you have iPhone teams who turn in billions for the company, whilst some poor guys in a back office make a case for selling 50k MacPros a year.
(BTW Can you name another machine that has had a case design last as long as the MacPro?)
All valid points, including me becoming a rare breed - hehe.
Maybe I cannot believe the MP gets axed as I'd think they would be using it themselves. Anyone know what Apple uses as their development machines? I know their data centres run Sun boxes, amongst others. But yeah, the MP wont be a cash-cow. It's also similar priced as a more or less similar Dell (as far as one can compare the two).
From the top of my head the G5, single 1.6GHz, was released in September 2003 (I still have a working one, but stored in the attic) and can't think of a tower computer with the same design, no. Although Nokia phones come to mind. Yep, lame.
The elephant in the room is that a laptop is also an all in one with a fixed screen, etc etc.
It seems people prefer this way of buying computers - laptops are now beginning to outsell desktops.
Consumers and businesses tend to replace rather than upgrade, generally consumers don't have the awareness of how to upgrade a desktop. Businesses may find it cheaper to replace a desktop instead of committing technicians to purchasing parts and upgrading the insides of dozens to hundreds of PCs.
Granted, there is the advantage of reusing a separate monitor; screens on an environmentally conscious all in one an be recycled, perhaps even reused to repair broken or refurbished units.
A computer designed with the environment in mind can be resold if working, otherwise sent for recycling thus reducing its environmental impact.
Consider also the environmental impact of making unnecessarily large containers, components likely to remain unused, for PCs.
The G4 Cube had desktop components yet didn't do well. If Apple felt it was worthwhile making a Mini with desktop components I'm certain they would do so.
Laptops being all-in-one is a moot point in this discussion. They are that way out of necessity, not as a design choice. They are all-in-one as a secondary effect of a primary requirement, to be portable. A laptop without a screen would be kind of pointless, don't you think?
Whether consumers would ever upgrade is one thing. But if they think at the time of purchase they want the abiilty to upgrade (even if they never do), then that becomes a factor. Obviously, the biggest deciding factor of Windows vs Mac is the OS itself. But I would not be surprised if configuration was the 2nd or 3rd biggest deciding factor when choosing a computer. If you think you want to be able to add a 2nd internal hard drive, upgrade the video card, etc, you will gravitate towards a Windows PC option.
As for business, at my company, you'd be right about not usually upgrading computers. But they DO repair. Failed hard drive? Swap it out. Video card acting up? Replace it, even scavange one from another computer. And, most importantly to this conversion, if your monitor dies, they simply grab another one to replace it. With an iMac, if this happens I either have to get a whole new computer or my computer is out for repair for several days, minimum. That kind of distruption to my productivity is unacceptable.
With environmental issues. Yes, recycycling is an option. But even if every iMac is eventually recycled (and we know that is no where near reality), there are still enviromental impacts from the container, shipping, and energy to run the recycling operation. Not to mention the energy and raw materials which were used to build the "extra" monitor in the first place, and the extra shipping weight with every new CPU sold. The most environmentally friendly option is to not build the extra monitor in the first place!
(I'm not even an enviromentally friendly proponent, per se. I just think it's wasteful and ironic that a company that talks about how low-impact their manufacturing is, is neglecting the fact that not manufacturing the monitor in the first place would be even lower environmental impact. Not to mention the financial impact to my wallet!)
I was wondering the same thing...does this represent the great success of the iMac or the lack of another viable option from Apple? If you decide you want a Mac, and don't want the underpowered mini (a fine machine for basic tasks) or the very expensive Mac Pro, you don't have a choice.
I vote lack of another viable option. I want something between the mini and the Pro but I do not want an all in one. Where does that leave me? Switching to Windows after using Macs for 20 years? I'd rather not switch because I don't want to compromise on the OS. But I also don't want to compromise on my hardware needs and wants.
It is a frustrating time to be a long time Mac fan.
Lack of sales, lack of Intel's ability to produce timely updates, massive backlash at Apple's new pro products?
The Mac Pro is not a high-volume seller. It never was. And neither are the high-end workstations from HP and other manufacturers.
But if the Mac Pro isn't losing money... why kill it?
Besides... aren't there some engineers at Apple who use Mac Pros? Aren't they gonna hate to downgrade to an iMac?
The Mac Pro is not a high-volume seller. It never was. And neither are the high-end workstations from HP and other manufacturers.
But if the Mac Pro isn't losing money... why kill it?
Besides... aren't there some engineers at Apple who use Mac Pros? Aren't they gonna hate to downgrade to an iMac?
That's the rub. We don't know if the continued existence of the Mac Pro is a net benefit for Apple or not. If you look at the iMac synthetic benchmarks you see a very competitive machine that, to me, looks like something Apple engineers could use. A few years ago before Apple added desktop grade CPU and GPUs, and more recently dual internal drives and Thunderbolt the difference was quite large.
When it comes to marketshare, China and India together have 40% population marketshare, the USA, like Apple, only has 5% population marketshare.
So, should the USA embark on the mother of all baby booms to seize 50% population marketshare, thinning out its resources, thus lowering the average American living standard to the level of the average Chinese and Indians living in rural poverty?
Or should the 5% USA "blip" focus on maintaining its high quality lifestyle which that 40% in India and China can only dream of?
When it comes to significant marketshare, yours is a large slice of the Appleinsider trolls: just like those beige PC box shifters, it's of little consequence.
I've already given you far more attention than you deserve.
No. Still playing with numbers. Market share worldwide is still a factual 5 to 5.3% for Mac OSX vs Windows. Fact not accounting numbers play.
You think he wasn't referring to the Mac Pro? I do. So we need to talk. I've 'stated' my reasoning for them to keep the MP, what's yours?
Intuition.
Actually for Apple, their notebook sales overtook desktop sales over five years ago. If you think this is beginning to change, you're way late to the party.
I was referring to the industry as a whole, especially as the article refers to all the All in One PCs, not just those sold by Apple.
I've been aware that Apple has been selling more laptops than desktops for quite a few years.
No. Still playing with numbers. Market share worldwide is still a factual 5 to 5.3% for Mac OSX vs Windows. Fact not accounting numbers play.
Oh Snappy, Snappy, I'm almost beginning to pity you.
You're the scared rabbit caught in the bright lights of marketshare as the Apple profit juggernaut pulverises you into roadkill.
Snappy, it's you who who's fixated on playing with the 5% marketshare number, despite my analogy illustrating how meaningless marketshare can be as a number.
It's funny how you don't want to play with the $80 billion number Apple has in the bank.
That's the number you and all the other manufacturers only wish they could play with now.
Laptops being all-in-one is a moot point in this discussion. They are that way out of necessity, not as a design choice. They are all-in-one as a secondary effect of a primary requirement, to be portable. A laptop without a screen would be kind of pointless, don't you think?
This is a good point but I'll be a pedant and point out the irony of being able to run a Mac laptop with its lid closed, using only an external monitor as its display.
You can even maintain the portability by using a portable USB display.
But I wish to point out that the market currently prefers the all in one format, be it laptop or otherwise, over the separate pieces (i.e. sales of all laptops lumped together with desktop all in ones are greater than the other PC formats).
Whether consumers would ever upgrade is one thing. But if they think at the time of purchase they want the abiilty to upgrade (even if they never do), then that becomes a factor. Obviously, the biggest deciding factor of Windows vs Mac is the OS itself. But I would not be surprised if configuration was the 2nd or 3rd biggest deciding factor when choosing a computer. If you think you want to be able to add a 2nd internal hard drive, upgrade the video card, etc, you will gravitate towards a Windows PC option.
Another good point, especially as people like to have the option "just in case" for "room to expand". I suspect the typical consumer, however, wouldn't be aware of a video card or hard drive if it slapped them in the face. It's only those of us, with a technical nature, a minority who take interest in such things. Furthermore, the rapid pace of change may make upgrading your machine more expensive than buying anew. Case in point, the rapid move from DDR2 to DDR3 memory.
As for business, at my company, you'd be right about not usually upgrading computers. But they DO repair. Failed hard drive or Video card acting up? Replace it, even scavange one from another computer. And, most importantly to this conversion, if your monitor dies, they simply grab another one to replace it. With an iMac, if this happens I either have to get a whole new computer or my computer is out for repair for several days, minimum. That kind of distruption to my productivity is unacceptable.
This is another good point, albeit you should be backing up that hard drive, especially if it's data essential for operating the business. This is the weak point of the current iMacs, it was easier to swap out the hard drive in the past.
With environmental issues. Yes, recycycling is an option. But even if every iMac is eventually recycled (and we know that is no where near reality), there are still enviromental impacts from the container, shipping, and energy to run the recycling operation. Not to mention the energy and raw materials which were used to build the "extra" monitor in the first place, and the extra shipping weight with every new CPU sold. The most environmentally friendly option is to not build the extra monitor in the first place!
I just think it's wasteful and ironic that a company that talks about how low-impact their manufacturing is, is neglecting the fact that not manufacturing the monitor in the first place would be even lower environmental impact. Not to mention the financial impact to my wallet!)
The issue is how long the separate monitor is used compared to the integrated ones. If it's used for more than one system, then yes, integrated monitors are wasteful. If not, then the integrated one is more friendly: one thing to transport instead of two.
Besides, the separate monitor may need replacing if you get a new, more capable video card!
If it's seriously high fps games I'm happy for Apple to cede that market to gaming PCs and the consoles, if it keeps Apple focussed on the mainstream needs of most people.
Oh Snappy, Snappy, I'm almost beginning to pity you.
You're the scared rabbit caught in the bright lights of marketshare as the Apple profit juggernaut pulverises you into roadkill.
Snappy, it's you who who's fixated on playing with the 5% marketshare number, despite my analogy illustrating how meaningless marketshare can be as a number.
It's funny how you don't want to play with the $80 billion number Apple has in the bank.
That's the number you and all the other manufacturers only wish they could play with now.
We're discussing market share. Just as this article. I'm not making up numbers. My information is correct and verifiable. Apple 5 - 5.3% market share vs Windows. It quite easy to verify.
When it comes to marketshare, China and India together have 40% population marketshare, the USA, like Apple, only has 5% population marketshare.
So, should the USA embark on the mother of all baby booms to seize 50% population marketshare, thinning out its resources, thus lowering the average American living standard to the level of the average Chinese and Indians living in rural poverty?
Or should the 5% USA "blip" focus on maintaining its high quality lifestyle which that 40% in India and China can only dream of?
Ouch! That hurt! But I think you explained the marketshare thing very well.