Apple becomes No. 3 PC maker in US with industry-leading 21% growth

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Comments

  • Reply 21 of 53
    so total PC sales in 2011 were 352.8 million... apple sold around 16million of those?



    like steve job said

    "The war with Microsoft is over, Microsoft won."



    let it go
  • Reply 22 of 53
    I remember there was, in the ancient times of computer industry, a quote which was something like :



    HP invents, DEC sells, and IBM makes profit



    That quote is now to be rephrased as : Apple invents, sells and makes profit. The competitors just watch their market share, sales ans profits shrink.
  • Reply 23 of 53
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by agramonte View Post


    so total PC sales in 2011 were 352.8 million... apple sold around 16million of those?



    like steve job said

    "The war with Microsoft is over, Microsoft won."



    let it go



    We've already gone over this before, but here we go again.



    Simple example: let's say Company A is selling their device at $600 and making $200 in profit per unit. Meanwhile, Company B is selling their device at $200, but making $20 in profit per unit. Company B sells five times more units than Company A. Who is making more money? Company B has 83% marketshare by unit sales (5 out of six units sold), but Company A has 67% of the industry's profits.



    Despite Apple's modest marketshare in unit sales, they are actually grabbing way more of the PC industry's profits. This is particularly pronounced in the higher end of the PC market: Apple books something like >90% of the $1000+ PC market.



    It's the same with almost every other market that Apple participates in. Apple's iPhone profits are grabbing something like >65% of the entire smartphone industry's profits. Apple's dominance in the MP3 player market and media tablet market have them grabbing more than three-quarters of those markets' profits.



    HP, Acer, etc. are selling a lot more PCs than Apple, yet their profit margins are razor thin.
  • Reply 24 of 53
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post


    From 1999 to today I've owned four Apple computers.



    iMac G3 from 1999 - 2004

    PowerBook G4 from 2003 - 2009

    PowerMac G5 from 2004 - 2009

    MacBook Pro from 2009 to today.





    Lombard G3 ( Back side cache died )

    Ti (right hinge cracked)

    Powerbook G4 1.67 ( got old )

    Macbook Pro C2D 2.5 (still working)

    iMac 24 C2D 3.06 (glass screen is a joke, Studio took it back)

    Macbook air 1st Gen ( POS, Studio took it back

    Macbook Air Nvidia 320M (still working)



    work pays for my MACs since 1999 - some do ok, some have been very expensive crap.
  • Reply 25 of 53
    solipsismxsolipsismx Posts: 19,566member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by agramonte View Post


    so total PC sales in 2011 were 352.8 million... apple sold around 16million of those?



    like steve job said

    "The war with Microsoft is over, Microsoft won."



    let it go



    1) Jobs never said that.



    2) If he did it would mean nothing to Apple's competition with HP, Dell and other OEMs.



    3) What Jobs stated in 1997 was "The battle for the desktop is over. And we lost."



    4) For MS to win doesn't mean Apple has loss unless Apple is playing the wrong game... which they were. Apple has been competing against other PC makers and guess what.. they have won quarter after quarter, year after year as the others have lost.



    5) Only an idiot would take a 15yo quote seriously. So much has changed since 1997 in the way desktop computers interact with users. Besides MS playing catch up in most areas of the OS open web standards have severely depleted any lock-in edge with the consumer MS had. Just look at where IE is today compared to 1997.



    6) If you want to be technical compared to Apple, MS has lost a lot. They've lost mindshare. They've lost marketshare. They've lost number positions from software to services to economic positions. They are still a very profitable company, but they aren't as profitable as Apple, they aren't as popular as Apple, they aren't as desirable, even their browser engine isn't used on as many devices as the one Apple created despite IE now being competent.



    7) So what was your point again? Apple sold less than 20 million complete PCs in a year and took 40% of the world's PC profits but they are a lower in your eyes because MS sells their OS for any PC (including Macs)? Good one¡
  • Reply 26 of 53
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by cvaldes1831 View Post


    We've already gone over this before, but here we go again.



    Simple example: let's say Company A is selling their device at $600 and making $200 in profit per unit. Meanwhile, Company B is selling their device at $200, but making $20 in profit per unit. Company B sells five times more units than Company A. Who is making more money? Company B has 83% marketshare by unit sales (5 out of six units sold), but Company A has 67% of the industry's profits.



    Despite Apple's modest marketshare in unit sales, they are actually grabbing way more of the PC industry's profits. This is particularly pronounced in the higher end of the PC market: Apple books something like >90% of the $1000+ PC market.



    It's the same with almost every other market that Apple participates in. Apple's iPhone profits are grabbing something like >65% of the entire smartphone industry's profits. Apple's dominance in the MP3 player market and media tablet market have them grabbing more than three-quarters of those markets' profits.



    HP, Acer, etc. are selling a lot more PCs than Apple, yet their profit margins are razor thin.



    We've already gone over this before, but here we go again.



    Company B sells 10 400 dollar computer with 10 dollar profit (410 total per unit). Company A sells 1 700 computer (10% market) with 300 profit (1k total per unit)



    total profit

    B = 100

    A= 300



    company A has 75% of profit



    total goods bought from related industries

    B = 4,000 (400x10)

    A = 700 (700X1)



    now take that and do it X 348million units ranging from 299 to 600 dollars - and you at the tip



    Now dig down



    like Company B provides jobs to 10 folds company A so more people can buy holmes, send their kids to school, eat at a restaurant (just HP and microsoft suport 364,000 employees)



    profit is what is left over, not the wealth that has been generated and distributed - profit is not the only indicator of an industry worth.
  • Reply 27 of 53
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by spinnerlys View Post


    Never saw that. Thanks, a new one. Now I need to incorporate it. I guess it is a brain thing, as they both sound alike and one writes the other one. Happens to me too.



    Lol wow. Worst typo I've ever done.
  • Reply 28 of 53
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


    1) Jobs never said that.



    2) If he did it would mean nothing to Apple's competition with HP, Dell and other OEMs.



    3) What Jobs stated in 1997 was "The battle for the desktop is over. And we lost."



    4) For MS to win doesn't mean Apple has loss unless Apple is playing the wrong game... which they were. Apple has been competing against other PC makers and guess what.. they have won quarter after quarter, year after year as the others have lost.



    5) Only an idiot would take a 15yo quote seriously. So much has changed since 1997 in the way desktop computers interact with users. Besides MS playing catch up in most areas of the OS open web standards have severely depleted any lock-in edge with the consumer MS had. Just look at where IE is today compared to 1997.



    6) If you want to be technical compared to Apple, MS has lost a lot. They've lost mindshare. They've lost marketshare. They've lost number positions from software to services to economic positions. They are still a very profitable company, but they aren't as profitable as Apple, they aren't as popular as Apple, they aren't as desirable, even their browser engine isn't used on as many devices as the one Apple created despite IE now being competent.



    7) So what was your point again? Apple sold less than 20 million complete PCs in a year and took 40% of the world's PC profits but they are a lower in your eyes because MS sells their OS for any PC (including Macs)? Good one¡





    my point is simple, if a platform sells 348 million units and another sells 16million there is no battle - regardless of what your SALES market share is 10, 11, 12% in one year - it is running a deficit of 348 million installed units a year.



    I was comparing windows to osx - exactly, this ended back in 1997.



    never said it was lower in my eyes - a computer is a tool just like my drafting pencil, value is how well it does the job - I was pointing out a mathematical reality.
  • Reply 29 of 53
    solipsismxsolipsismx Posts: 19,566member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by agramonte View Post


    my point is simple, if a platform sells 348 million units and another sells 16million there is no battle - regardless of what your SALES market share is 10, 11, 12% in one year - it is running a deficit of 348 million installed units a year.



    I was comparing windows to osx - exactly, this ended back in 1997.



    never said it was lower in my eyes - a computer is a tool just like my drafting pencil, value is how well it does the job - I was pointing out a mathematical reality.



    If it ended in 1997 then why are you bringing it up in a thread about PC HW sales?
  • Reply 30 of 53
    cmvsmcmvsm Posts: 204member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by easy288 View Post


    I am on my sixth Dell machine. The only problem I have ever had is a broken keyboard. I have not always purchased mid to high level computers too. A pretty good track record for a pos.



    Made 500% on Dell stock in the late 90's. Plenty more money left to buy more Dell machines.



    Apple units- I will pass.



    My company used to do the Dell thing. Machine was an extreme POS. I think that this pretty much applies to all manufacturers, as we have HP now, and the machines are just as unreliable. The breakdown is not the hardware, its the Microsoft OS. I believe that Dell once tried to get Apple to license OSX to them in 2009. Steve Jobs of course laughed at the thought, but Michael Dell at least knew where the weakness was in his offerings.
  • Reply 31 of 53
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


    If it ended in 1997 then why are you bringing it up in a thread about PC HW sales?



    Because Soli, aggy is a nay-sayer. Because profits aren't as important to the point trying to be made, which is Apple isn't all that and a bag of chips in aggy's mind, so any statistic that challenges that is dismissed and suitable statistics supporting said viewpoint offered instead. Because only bigger is important, not better, because Detroit sells more cars than Mercedes.



    And while I could offer a far more impressive stack of both Apple and Dell/HP/Toshiba issues than aggy - I won't bother because it's not necessary.



    In the final analysis, Apple's success is what it is: well-planned, well-executed, agile operations. Michael Dell didn't get in to making PCs because he loved making PCs. He got into it because he saw a chance to make a boatload of money off a rising tide of consumer and business computer purchasing. He commoditized the PC, undersold the competition, and drove corporate uptake of the product line. So did HP/Compaq. Corporate purchasing is buoying up both Dell and HP against the sinking consumer PC market. And Dell/HP make up most of the Microsoft corporate platform as well since they supply not just desktops and laptops but servers as well. Corporate purchases are why Dell, HP and Microsoft still have room to make strategic adjustment to their consumer side. Whether they can do that successfully is still to be seen. Intel is trying to help, but unless some major off the wall marketing makes a consumer impact, its too little too late.



    iPads have demonstrated to many that the vast majority of consumers don't need a big box (or laptop) sitting on a desk to do most if not all of what they need to do from a computing perspective, the power-freak geeks on this site notwithstanding *grin*.



    PC sales I think will become death by a thousand cuts for most of the PC makers, unless they can come up with a viable highly accepted consumer tablet device. And there's no definitive proof thus far that anyone (other than Samsung) has this figured out.



    Unless/until Apple overtakes Dell or HP (which would happen tomorrow if the tech media accepted the tablet format as an actual comuting platform rather than a "media consumption device"), aggy will be constantly on here proclaiming the fallacy of assuming Apple's superiority, due to - whatever statistics suit the need of the moment. However, aggy would also, even in the event of Apple supremacy, point out whatever flaws he could possibly come up with, because (coming full circle) he is a nay-sayer. And nay-sayers simply aren't happy unless they can say "nay".
  • Reply 32 of 53
    So nice not to be referred to as "other" anymore!
  • Reply 33 of 53
    MacProMacPro Posts: 18,462member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jragosta View Post


    Of course. Some estimates put iPad sales as high as 22 M in the 4th quarter:

    http://www.t3.com/news/apple-ipad-2-...on-units-in-q4



    That would make Apple the leader by far. However, I don't buy it. I don't really think that iPads should be included in computer sales for most purposes.



    Then again a lot of the PC users are not renewing their last crap box and getting an iPad instead. So it is a complex relationship.



    The iPad is going to have a knock on effect in the PC market. Vast numbers of PCs are simply sold every couple of years to the same people as they find it cheaper to buy new than pay a nerd to get their old one working again after several free virus apps have expired and their Windoze slows to a crawl. Those people now have an iPad and it will still work fine in a decade. The difference is they will pass it on to a family member and get a newer one because thy want one.



    My point being every sale lost to one of the PC makers is multiple sales losses in the years to come so this decline will accelerate.
  • Reply 34 of 53
    cmvsmcmvsm Posts: 204member
    This progress is in line with the Feds 'Beige Book' reporting. Seems that after small and medium businesses were polled across the country this quarter, not only is business getting better, it's getting better on the high end, with consumers buying the more expensive products. It was noted that the 'middle class', is confusing as they are not adhering to a 'middle class' budget. Given that's all Apple deals with gives credence to this new 3rd place positioning and a great sign for the economy.
  • Reply 35 of 53
    mrstepmrstep Posts: 446member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by easy288 View Post


    I am on my sixth Dell machine. The only problem I have ever had is a broken keyboard. I have not always purchased mid to high level computers too. A pretty good track record for a pos.



    Made 500% on Dell stock in the late 90's. Plenty more money left to buy more Dell machines.



    Apple units- I will pass.



    Dude, you're getting a...



    Huh? While I'm sure you're trolling this forum for some reason, this is relevant to Dell losing market share and Apple gaining how?
  • Reply 36 of 53
    Just bought my first Mac yesterday (a refurb MacBook Pro). So far so good! Love the screen on it. Now if I can just figure out how to find the folder structure. I did the migrate-to-mac thing like it recommended, and I have no idea where it put my stuff.
  • Reply 37 of 53
    MacProMacPro Posts: 18,462member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Freshmaker View Post


    Just bought my first Mac yesterday (a refurb MacBook Pro). So far so good! Love the screen on it. Now if I can just figure out how to find the folder structure. I did the migrate-to-mac thing like it recommended, and I have no idea where it put my stuff.



    Welcome to the light



    Tons of videos to watch at Apple's web site which help in most areas. If you are not on Lion it may be worth updating before learning else you'll be learning a version that's already been updated.



    http://www.apple.com/findouthow/mac/
  • Reply 38 of 53
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post


    From 1999 to today I've owned four Apple computers.



    iMac G3 from 1999 - 2004

    PowerBook G4 from 2003 - 2009

    PowerMac G5 from 2004 - 2009

    MacBook Pro from 2009 to today.



    While I've handled and used hundreds of different ones for work, I've only had two as my main personal/home computer.



    - "Graphite" G4 tower

    - MacPro tower



    The G4 is still running at the house of the person I gave it to four years ago (over 10 years!) and neither of them have had any serious problems or needed a motherboard replacement. I've gone through a lot of hard drives, and I've had a couple of graphics cards go belly up on me but all the Apple gear has been flawless.
  • Reply 39 of 53
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Freshmaker View Post


    Just bought my first Mac yesterday (a refurb MacBook Pro). So far so good! Love the screen on it. Now if I can just figure out how to find the folder structure. I did the migrate-to-mac thing like it recommended, and I have no idea where it put my stuff.



    click on the desktop. then hit Command-N.



    voila, files and folders.
  • Reply 40 of 53
    Ummm...am I missing something because I read this over at Engadget:



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