Former Apple CEO John Sculley says he never fired co-founder Steve Jobs

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  • Reply 21 of 122
    They're both right. Jobs wasn't fired from Apple, but he was fired as head of the macintosh division that was the future of Apple. Which to Steve was the same thing. He still had an office, but had no work to do, and was blocked from creating any new work.



    The problem with Macintosh Office they were promoting in 85 is it was incomplete. They had the computer with a great graphical user interface, they had the laserwriter, they had the network, Steve burned out his engineers, though, so there was no Macintosh file server to tie it all together. And that's why it wasn't selling like they expected.



    Scully did a great job at marketing (which is what he was brought in to do). Apple 2c, Macintosh Classic, etc. He was the wrong person to lead the technology forward, though.



    In the long run, it all worked out. While he was away, Steve built NeXTStep, which became OS X that runs every macintosh, iPhone, iPod touch and iPad today saved Apple, Steve also changed animated movies forever with Pixar.



    Steve also go better at both marketing and managing while he was away.
  • Reply 22 of 122
    solipsismxsolipsismx Posts: 19,566member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Just_Me View Post


    Computers existed before Steve. Progress would still have been made without him. With that said competition is good for consumers



    You can also say that math and science would have progressed without Einstein and Newton.
  • Reply 23 of 122
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Elijahg View Post




    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Woodlink

    People who changed the world:

    [snip] Tim Berners-Lee.



    You'll find Tim Berners-Lee used a NeXT computer to write the world's first web browser. If he was using a different OS, he may not have done so. So Jobs enabled Berners-Lee to write a web browser, making Jobs rather important too.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Blitz1 View Post


    Linux (on NeXT) did the trick, not NeXT.



    Regarding the internet, one might add Vint Cerf, Robert Calliau (inventor of Http-protocol)



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


    What does that mean?



    Must be a full moon... The Furies are out and about...



    If @Blitz1 had done a little research he would have found that Berners-Lee's effort to develop the web with NeXT --predates Torvolds effort to develop Linux...
  • Reply 24 of 122
    and barry bond and mark mcgwire who risked their lives to try magic in order to push humanity to extremity.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Woodlink View Post


    People who changed the world:



    Sculley? Hardly.



    Jobs? Perhaps. (jury is still out)



    But don't equate either to the likes of Louis Pasteur, Magellan, Newton, Oppenheimer and Einstein, Tim Berners-Lee.



    Those dudes ROCKED the world.



    Jobs contributions are well documented and worth noting, but really, who cares who fired who in a board room pissing match?



  • Reply 25 of 122
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Woodlink View Post


    People who changed the world:



    Sculley? Hardly.



    Jobs? Perhaps. (jury is still out)



    But don't equate either to the likes of Louis Pasteur, Magellan, Newton, Oppenheimer and Einstein, Tim Berners-Lee.



    Those dudes ROCKED the world.



    Jobs contributions are well documented and worth noting, but really, who cares who fired who in a board room pissing match?



    They say hindsight is 20/20, but in your case, corrective lenses are still needed



    None of the people on your rock the world list are leaders of men, oddly enough. They are all individuals who have made brilliant individual contributions. You probably think Woz did all the work and Jobs took all the credit. But if Steve Jobs had never been born, or had never met Woz, there would be no Apple, no NeXT, no Pixar. Woz's hobby would not have launched a company, a revolution. John Lasseter would not be head of Disney Animation. I'm not even sure we would have Windows in its current form. And the lives of hundreds of millions of people would be different.
  • Reply 26 of 122
    I wonder, why everybody is popping up with statements when Steve is no more....



    Maybe they don't have any fear that there lies will be brought to justice, no matter how much lies they tell to the media, just to sell themselves and their future ideas....



    Maybe, American Capitalists has no respect for the deceased and their families....



    Even Apple's most fierce competitor (copycat) SAMSUNG, delayed their product launch for sometime after Steve passed in show of some respect.......is it because Koreans Businessmen have some ethics and American Capitalists don't?



    These hypocrites are proving repeatedly that they are not only cowards but will also sell their MOTHER for that extra profit on WALL STREET !!!
  • Reply 27 of 122
    Scully isn't the only one looking back on the past with rose-tinted glasses regarding their relationship with Steve Jobs. Eric Schmidt is writing history every time he opens his mouth.



    http://www.forbes.com/sites/ericjack...th-steve-jobs/
  • Reply 28 of 122
    jensonbjensonb Posts: 528member
    You're splitting hairs. Steve said "fired" because it felt like and amounted to, being fired. He had been demoted to an entirely ceremonial role with an office far removed from the heart of Apple's management structure. He had no power or responsibilities and quit in frustration with it. The only difference between that and "fired" is who actually terminated the contract. The emotions and intents involved are the same.
  • Reply 29 of 122
    bageljoeybageljoey Posts: 1,755member
    I just now realized that by buying an Apple ][c I helped Sculley fire (sort-of) Jobs. I had been saving for and dreaming of owning an Apple for so long, I didn't even consider a Mac. Besides Macs had that silly "mouse" and hid the power of the computer behind a constraining "graphical user interface".



    I had the same limited view of a fast moving technological field at 16 as that talented sugar water salesman...
  • Reply 30 of 122
    pmzpmz Posts: 3,433member
    I seem to hear the same story. Scully describes how they did everything BUT fire him, hoping he would resign. Thats the same as firing someone.



    I see no conflict or misrepresentation by anyone Scully, Jobs or, Isaacson for that matter.
  • Reply 31 of 122
    ajmasajmas Posts: 555member
    Given the type of character Steve Jobs had, the situation at least caused him to find a bit of humility and also create NeXT. In that way John Sculley invariably did a good thing.
  • Reply 33 of 122
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Bageljoey View Post


    I had been saving for and dreaming of owning an Apple for so long, I didn't even consider a Mac. Besides Macs had that silly "mouse" and hid the power of the computer behind a constraining "graphical user interface".



    Macs were also nearly double the price of your IIc then. A very big factor for a teenager or even a family.



    Imagine if you had waited for that $6500 SE/30.
  • Reply 34 of 122
    maecvsmaecvs Posts: 129member
    The other reason Jobs was pushed aside is that he wanted to turn Apple into a consumer electronics company, selling more than just the Macintosh.







    Good thing he was stopped in time!!! (Sarcasm)
  • Reply 35 of 122
    pokepoke Posts: 506member
    Making Sculley CEO was a terrible decision. Jobs should have been encouraged to be CEO. (In part, I blame his own uncharacteristic lack of faith in himself to take on the role.) Sculley's "vision" of creating a thousand iterations of the Apple II and not charging forward on the Mac was the wrong one. Jobs proved this when he returned to Apple. Apple's great success has been its willingness to disrupt itself. Sculley's approach is a classic case of unwillingness to let go of the cash cow and embrace the next big thing. They needed to go all-in on the Mac and keep innovating. Sculley was a salesman and didn't understand innovation at all.
  • Reply 36 of 122
    tundraboytundraboy Posts: 1,613member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by NomadMac View Post


    Ask the people of Africa who bought Macintoshes and Laserwriters whether a free press made a difference in their lives.



    Ask my wife who video chats with her widowed mother 5,000 miles away in Japan, every Sunday afternoon for 3 hours, whether Apple has made a difference in their lives. Or the deaf who now can communicate with each other via sign language and video chat whether their lives have significantly changed.



    Ask my kids when we take our iPad outside at night with GoSkyWatch point it at a planet and we finally learn what we're actually looking at.



    Ask a senior citizen or others with limited vision whether iBooks has made a difference in their lives now that every book is a large print book.



    Ask a parent of an autistic child whether an iPad has made a difference their lives.



    Go back and watch "Blade Runner" from 1982 when their vision of 2019 included floating cars but the computers all had green screens.



    You ignorant whiners complain that Steve Jobs did nothing to change the world while you sit and make your rants AT YOUR COMPUTER.



    Well put, old chap!
  • Reply 37 of 122
    zoetmbzoetmb Posts: 2,444member
    Regardless of whose version of the story is more accurate, I think it is in extremely bad taste for Sculley to wait until Jobs dies to claim he never fired Jobs.



    And whether he fired Jobs or caused his life to be so miserable that he felt he had to leave doesn't really matter. The fact is that Apple was far worse off without Jobs than with him in spite of Jobs' antics at the time and the fact that his failures at Next (and successes at Pixar) matured him and made him a better executive when he returned to Apple.



    History shows us that Jobs was wrong to want to de-emphasize the Apple ][, since the Mac was not originally successful from a sales standpoint and the Apple ][ was supporting the company, partially because Apple was so strong in the El-Hi education market in those days. In fact, Apple started an "Apple ][ Forever" marketing campaign and continued to make important changes to that product line while the Mac evolved into something more practical and affordable. I no longer remember the exact date of that campaign, but I suspect it was around 1985 or 1986.



    Which just made me think that someone should produce an interactive enhanced e-book about the history of Apple's marketing showing the evolution of all the print ads, TV spots, convention booths, retail architecture, etc.



    And do you really think that Sculley didn't read the recent Jobs bio? You mean to say he didn't want to know what was written about him? I call that total b.s.
  • Reply 38 of 122
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post


    Many millions of very smart people all over the world would disagree with you.



    That said, there is no law that says you should not make an ass of yourself.



    Ass of myself? Uh, no.



    Millions of people? Uh, get a life millions of people. It's JUST a computer.



    I just think its really, really funny (sad) that we as a society should exalt individuals who seemingly "changed" the world when their actual impact on society is hardly measurable.



    Just because Richard Dreyfuss said so in an Apple ad doesn't make it true.



    The debate over whether or not Sculley fired Jobs or not is stupid.



    But yet, we converse the very issue.



    Troops coming home from wars could give a shit.
  • Reply 39 of 122
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post


    Many millions of very smart people all over the world would disagree with you.



    That said, there is no law that says you should not make an ass of yourself.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by NomadMac View Post


    Ask the people of Africa who bought Macintoshes and Laserwriters whether a free press made a difference in their lives.



    Ask my wife who video chats with her widowed mother 5,000 miles away in Japan, every Sunday afternoon for 3 hours, whether Apple has made a difference in their lives. Or the deaf who now can communicate with each other via sign language and video chat whether their lives have significantly changed.



    Skype



    Ask my kids when we take our iPad outside at night with GoSkyWatch point it at a planet and we finally learn what we're actually looking at.



    National Geographic



    Ask a senior citizen or others with limited vision whether iBooks has made a difference in their lives now that every book is a large print book.



    Big print books have been around for decades.



    Ask a parent of an autistic child whether an iPad has made a difference their lives.



    Ok, credit due here.



    Go back and watch "Blade Runner" from 1982 when their vision of 2019 included floating cars but the computers all had green screens.



    Uh, what?



    You ignorant whiners complain that Steve Jobs did nothing to change the world while you sit and make your rants AT YOUR COMPUTER.



    Umm, if anything Jobs made some of the above convenient, and profitable. But don't try and convince me he cured a disease, or died in a war.
  • Reply 40 of 122
    chris_cachris_ca Posts: 2,543member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by cvaldes1831 View Post


    California is an at-will employment state. Sculley couldn't fire Steve outright



    Why not?

    At-will employment does not mean you can't get fired. It means either side can terminate employment, even if there is no reason.
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