So here's my question, pondering point, or whatever?
Does anyone here think that the average Android user has any brand loyalty?
My thoughts are basically that any platform has some level of lock-in. However, when you lock-in with Apple you need to buy another iPhone. When you lock in with Android, you only lock-in the OS, not the vendor.
That is, Apple can count on a high percentage of their iPhone customers buying another iPhone. Samsung cannot. Since they're all the same OS, why not get the best price/performance ratio at any particular second in time?
So that implies that all of these companies need to continue in their race to the bottom against each other.
Do you agree?
I ask because I have some direct experience here. Until I upgraded her for her bday, my wife was running a 3+ year old 3G which worked perfectly. I only have experience with three owners of Android phones, one has gone through three handsets in the last year looking for one that still worked (some candy-bar phone with Android which was basically useless, then the Sony which failed continually, and finally to Samsung), another that had a similar experience and then gave up and went to BB, and finally a new owner who got an HTC for Christmas and it's already failing to receive calls.
In all of these case, and here's the issue, none of them had any brand loyalty. More importantly, most of them didn't really have any sort of syncing lock-in. A few songs, some photos, that's it.
So to me that implies that as the used market for iPhones grows, unless something radical happens on the features side, the lock-in percentage for iPhone should keep going up.
Right?
I agree 100%
In my circle of friends... I see more and more of them having a crappy time with their Android phones. Most of the problems stem from crappy hardware. I know a couple friends who are on their 2nd or 3rd Droid X... I wonder if Verizon ever gets sick of replacing the same phone over and over...
When the time comes to get a new phone... they might have a sour taste in their mouth about Android as a whole... instead of the manufacturer. I'm not sure if people can separate the hardware from the software.
Thanks to "Droid" advertising... lots of people think all Android phones are Droids. And when someone hears their friends complaining about their broken Android phones time after time... that's not exactly a glowing endorsement.
I'd say Android lock-in was doomed by all the crappy Android phones in the early days.
Of course today's Android phones are way better than earlier generations. But if you've been bitten once by Android... you're probably not gonna go down that road again.
Manufacturer lock-in: Apple has it... the others don't.
People are typically happy with iPhones... and they know the next one will work the same as their previous one.
One nice thing is... when you bring home your new iPhone and plug it into your computer... your iTunes library gets copied to your iPhone. Boom... your iPhone becomes your iPod.
In contrast... barely any of my friends (non-geeks) have any music on their Android phones. They simply don't even think about it. They'd rather use their iPods!
Another interesting note: Apple is still selling the iPhone 3GS... which came out in 2009. It's obviously still good enough for Apple to put its seal of approval on... and we know how picky Apple is.
Now... imagine an Android phone from 2009 still being sold today.... a Droid Eris, for instance. I can't even type that without laughing... or cringing...
This only matters if you own stock in an Android OEM.
Otherwise, what's the issue? How is this any different than the Windows ecosystem (both mobile and desktop) with different OEMs?
Is it tough for OEMs? Sure.
Lack of brand loyalty to OEMs never hurt the Windows ecosystem.
Exactly... and that's why PC OEMs are engaged in a race to the bottom. All those $399 laptops aren't helping their bottom line very much.
Just a few months ago HP was thinking about getting out of the PC business.
To review: the world's largest PC manufacturer was actually considering leaving the PC business...
Sure... that announcement was penned by the wacko ex-CEO of HP.... but it does give some insight into the PC business as a whole. It's a tough place to be.
As for phones... LG and Motorola haven't made any money in years... and HTC is beginning to feel the burn as well.
Samsung is the only Android OEM that is actually doing well.
I'm generalizing this, of course... but the overall message is the same. Just because you sell phones that run Google's Android OS.... it's not exactly smooth sailing.
The cheerleading here doesn't change the fact that this is temporary. A new product will always produce a spike. But if you look closely iOS Smartphone share is losing ground fast. The days of iPhone leading the market as long gone.
Apple's lead in market share has been gone for over a year... where have you been?
Oh that's right... you've been here saying the same thing over and over...
You're a bigger cheerleader for "Android market share" than all the Apple folks on this Apple website put together!
Historically, new iPhone releases haven't led to a spike, but to a new baseline for sales. The only large spikes are in the holiday quarter. Of course, this year the new release coincided with the holiday quarter, so it might be a little more difficult to establish a new baseline. Sales for the 1st quarter of 2012 will probably be down 30-40% from what Apple reports for the holiday quarter next week. Last year Android sales spiked in the holiday quarter too, but this year they did not. Whether this speaks to long-term Android trends or not we'll find out in a few months.
Personally I think this is going to be an extremely good year for Apple in the US market and they may overtake Android. For that to happen in the rest of the world they need a cheaper, off-contract phone.
Apple's lead in market share has been gone for over a year... where have you been?
Oh that's right... you've been here saying the same thing over and over...
You're a bigger cheerleader for "Android market share" than all the Apple folks on this Apple website put together!
When did Apple ever have have a dominate share of the mobile OSes? Before Android took off it Symbian was in the lead. Apple has been doing their thing, increasing their profits, while Android is eating the marketshare of the other mobile OSes and the vendors using Android OS taking a little of the profit away from non-Apple players.
Personally I think this is going to be an extremely good year for Apple in the US market and they may overtake Android. For that to happen in the rest of the world they need a cheaper, off-contract phone.
Android's constant missteps is only reason Apple should be able to overtake a free OS uses by dozens of vendors on hundreds of devices, but it has to be substantial and repetitive. Even Windows has 90%+ despite their mishaps because what they do right they do very well, even though Apple is by far the most profitable PC vendor on the planet (and handset vendor).
The US market also has a 55% saturation rate, which is much faster than I would have expected. This is good news for Apple, not for Android. Android will continue to do better in emerging markets with cheaper devices and less saturation. The US with its hundreds of Apple Stores and multiple generations of smartphone users are much more inclined to buy an iPhone than an Android-based phone regardless of what they have before so I agree that the US will show the iPhone uptick in a better light (compared to the world as a whole).
When did Apple ever have have a dominate share of the mobile OSes? Before Android took off it Symbian was in the lead. Apple has been doing their thing, increasing their profits, while Android is eating the marketshare of the other mobile OSes and the vendors using Android OS taking a little of the profit away from non-Apple players.
True... but I was replying to Slaphappy... he said it!
Apple did have more market share than Android at one time, though...
True... but I was replying to Slaphappy... he said it!
Apple did have more market share than Android at one time, though...
Sure, more than Android, but that's because Android purchased in 2005 had to go back to the drawing board to compete with iOS instead of BB OS. Still, Android has taken everyone else's pie, not Apple's. I might be wrong but Apple is closer now to having the most mobile OS marketshare than its ever been, and they've done it by focusing on profits, not simply going after the most pointless metric a company can have.
Sure, more than Android, but that's because Android purchased in 2005 had to go back to the drawing board to compete with iOS instead of BB OS. Still, Android has taken everyone else's pie, not Apple's. I might be wrong but Apple is closer now to having the most mobile OS marketshare than its ever been, and they've done it by focusing on profits, not simply going after the most pointless metric a company can have.
Coming out of the world of BB and into the Apple ecosystem is as different as night and day. My family is able to communicate with each other easily, calendars match and with a handicapped son, Siri makes life easier for him. We have 4 4s phones and a 3gs, all of us have iPads and have never looked back at those decisions.
When I travel for business, I mainly see iPhones and very few BB's anymore. To me, it's not the phone, which is great, but it's the entire Apple experience. No other vendor offers as much, that is so easy to use, functional for everyday life or work and like Apple says, it just works!
Right now, they offer the very best value for me and my family. Great job Apple.
"Though Apple's massive spike in sales helped the company close the gap on Android, Google's mobile platform remains the most popular choice among smartphone owners in the U.S. Nielsen found that 46.3 percent of all domestic smartphone owners have an Android device, compared to the 30 percent share iOS holds."
The cheerleading here doesn't change the fact that this is temporary. A new product will always produce a spike. But if you look closely iOS Smartphone share is losing ground fast. The days of iPhone leading the market as long gone.
Apple will also eventually lose in the tablet market but Apple will always retain the highest loyalty of any brand. Thats what you get when you control both hardware and software
When did Apple ever have have a dominate share of the mobile OSes? Before Android took off it Symbian was in the lead. Apple has been doing their thing, increasing their profits, while Android is eating the marketshare of the other mobile OSes and the vendors using Android OS taking a little of the profit away from non-Apple players.
Samsung and a few other android oems have recorded increasing profits post android release
Android's constant missteps is only reason Apple should be able to overtake a free OS uses by dozens of vendors on hundreds of devices, but it has to be substantial and repetitive. Even Windows has 90%+ despite their mishaps because what they do right they do very well, even though Apple is by far the most profitable PC vendor on the planet (and handset vendor).
The US market also has a 55% saturation rate, which is much faster than I would have expected. This is good news for Apple, not for Android. Android will continue to do better in emerging markets with cheaper devices and less saturation. The US with its hundreds of Apple Stores and multiple generations of smartphone users are much more inclined to buy an iPhone than an Android-based phone regardless of what they have before so I agree that the US will show the iPhone uptick in a better light (compared to the world as a whole).
Apple has cheap phones. You can get a 3Gs all the way up to the 4s for free. Apples lion share of profits comes from emerging markets
The problem here is that, in 6 months, the growth for iOS smartphone will slow again because of anticipation of iphone 5, while new Android phones will keep coming out every 3 months and maintain the lead.
IMO Apple still needs an additional model, and makes alternate launch cycles every half-year (Sep for traditional launch, Mar for variation launch). E.g. they could make a larger screen 4s model in March, and iPhone 5 in Sep.
Apple will also eventually lose in the tablet market but Apple will always retain the highest loyalty of any brand. Thats what you get when you control both hardware and software
What do you mean by "lose"? If you mean that Apple will continue to grow to be 3X the size of Google and be able to buy MS, Dell, Google and Intel and you call that "lose", then yes, Apple will lose.
Comments
We don't know anything until slapppy explains this graph to us ignorants.
EDIT: OK I see, I am late with my post. The all knowing slapppy has already spoken.
So here's my question, pondering point, or whatever?
Does anyone here think that the average Android user has any brand loyalty?
My thoughts are basically that any platform has some level of lock-in. However, when you lock-in with Apple you need to buy another iPhone. When you lock in with Android, you only lock-in the OS, not the vendor.
That is, Apple can count on a high percentage of their iPhone customers buying another iPhone. Samsung cannot. Since they're all the same OS, why not get the best price/performance ratio at any particular second in time?
So that implies that all of these companies need to continue in their race to the bottom against each other.
Do you agree?
I ask because I have some direct experience here. Until I upgraded her for her bday, my wife was running a 3+ year old 3G which worked perfectly. I only have experience with three owners of Android phones, one has gone through three handsets in the last year looking for one that still worked (some candy-bar phone with Android which was basically useless, then the Sony which failed continually, and finally to Samsung), another that had a similar experience and then gave up and went to BB, and finally a new owner who got an HTC for Christmas and it's already failing to receive calls.
In all of these case, and here's the issue, none of them had any brand loyalty. More importantly, most of them didn't really have any sort of syncing lock-in. A few songs, some photos, that's it.
So to me that implies that as the used market for iPhones grows, unless something radical happens on the features side, the lock-in percentage for iPhone should keep going up.
Right?
I agree 100%
In my circle of friends... I see more and more of them having a crappy time with their Android phones. Most of the problems stem from crappy hardware. I know a couple friends who are on their 2nd or 3rd Droid X... I wonder if Verizon ever gets sick of replacing the same phone over and over...
When the time comes to get a new phone... they might have a sour taste in their mouth about Android as a whole... instead of the manufacturer. I'm not sure if people can separate the hardware from the software.
Thanks to "Droid" advertising... lots of people think all Android phones are Droids. And when someone hears their friends complaining about their broken Android phones time after time... that's not exactly a glowing endorsement.
I'd say Android lock-in was doomed by all the crappy Android phones in the early days.
Of course today's Android phones are way better than earlier generations. But if you've been bitten once by Android... you're probably not gonna go down that road again.
Manufacturer lock-in: Apple has it... the others don't.
People are typically happy with iPhones... and they know the next one will work the same as their previous one.
One nice thing is... when you bring home your new iPhone and plug it into your computer... your iTunes library gets copied to your iPhone. Boom... your iPhone becomes your iPod.
In contrast... barely any of my friends (non-geeks) have any music on their Android phones. They simply don't even think about it. They'd rather use their iPods!
Another interesting note: Apple is still selling the iPhone 3GS... which came out in 2009. It's obviously still good enough for Apple to put its seal of approval on... and we know how picky Apple is.
Now... imagine an Android phone from 2009 still being sold today.... a Droid Eris, for instance. I can't even type that without laughing... or cringing...
This only matters if you own stock in an Android OEM.
Otherwise, what's the issue? How is this any different than the Windows ecosystem (both mobile and desktop) with different OEMs?
Is it tough for OEMs? Sure.
Lack of brand loyalty to OEMs never hurt the Windows ecosystem.
Exactly... and that's why PC OEMs are engaged in a race to the bottom. All those $399 laptops aren't helping their bottom line very much.
Just a few months ago HP was thinking about getting out of the PC business.
To review: the world's largest PC manufacturer was actually considering leaving the PC business...
Sure... that announcement was penned by the wacko ex-CEO of HP.... but it does give some insight into the PC business as a whole. It's a tough place to be.
As for phones... LG and Motorola haven't made any money in years... and HTC is beginning to feel the burn as well.
Samsung is the only Android OEM that is actually doing well.
I'm generalizing this, of course... but the overall message is the same. Just because you sell phones that run Google's Android OS.... it's not exactly smooth sailing.
The cheerleading here doesn't change the fact that this is temporary. A new product will always produce a spike. But if you look closely iOS Smartphone share is losing ground fast. The days of iPhone leading the market as long gone.
Apple's lead in market share has been gone for over a year... where have you been?
Oh that's right... you've been here saying the same thing over and over...
You're a bigger cheerleader for "Android market share" than all the Apple folks on this Apple website put together!
Personally I think this is going to be an extremely good year for Apple in the US market and they may overtake Android. For that to happen in the rest of the world they need a cheaper, off-contract phone.
Apple's lead in market share has been gone for over a year... where have you been?
Oh that's right... you've been here saying the same thing over and over...
You're a bigger cheerleader for "Android market share" than all the Apple folks on this Apple website put together!
When did Apple ever have have a dominate share of the mobile OSes? Before Android took off it Symbian was in the lead. Apple has been doing their thing, increasing their profits, while Android is eating the marketshare of the other mobile OSes and the vendors using Android OS taking a little of the profit away from non-Apple players.
Personally I think this is going to be an extremely good year for Apple in the US market and they may overtake Android. For that to happen in the rest of the world they need a cheaper, off-contract phone.
Android's constant missteps is only reason Apple should be able to overtake a free OS uses by dozens of vendors on hundreds of devices, but it has to be substantial and repetitive. Even Windows has 90%+ despite their mishaps because what they do right they do very well, even though Apple is by far the most profitable PC vendor on the planet (and handset vendor).
The US market also has a 55% saturation rate, which is much faster than I would have expected. This is good news for Apple, not for Android. Android will continue to do better in emerging markets with cheaper devices and less saturation. The US with its hundreds of Apple Stores and multiple generations of smartphone users are much more inclined to buy an iPhone than an Android-based phone regardless of what they have before so I agree that the US will show the iPhone uptick in a better light (compared to the world as a whole).
When did Apple ever have have a dominate share of the mobile OSes? Before Android took off it Symbian was in the lead. Apple has been doing their thing, increasing their profits, while Android is eating the marketshare of the other mobile OSes and the vendors using Android OS taking a little of the profit away from non-Apple players.
True... but I was replying to Slaphappy... he said it!
Apple did have more market share than Android at one time, though...
True... but I was replying to Slaphappy... he said it!
Apple did have more market share than Android at one time, though...
Sure, more than Android, but that's because Android purchased in 2005 had to go back to the drawing board to compete with iOS instead of BB OS. Still, Android has taken everyone else's pie, not Apple's. I might be wrong but Apple is closer now to having the most mobile OS marketshare than its ever been, and they've done it by focusing on profits, not simply going after the most pointless metric a company can have.
Sure, more than Android, but that's because Android purchased in 2005 had to go back to the drawing board to compete with iOS instead of BB OS. Still, Android has taken everyone else's pie, not Apple's. I might be wrong but Apple is closer now to having the most mobile OS marketshare than its ever been, and they've done it by focusing on profits, not simply going after the most pointless metric a company can have.
I agree... but don't tell that to Slapphappy...
Just wait. In 7 months, the 4 will be free on contract, the base 4S will be $99, and the 5 will be out.
And the 3GS? It becomes Apples low cost off contract solution
Apple is just getting going here
Apples pricing is artificial.
AppleTV have the same hardware as iPhone beside 3G chip + touchscreen. Somehow Apple charges 650 dollar for an iPhone and 99 dollar for the AppleTV.
Apple could sell cheap phones if the wanted, but its more fun making money. Many parts in 3GS is more expensive then the Iphone4, still its cheaper.
Apples pricing is artificial.
AppleTV have the same hardware as iPhone beside 3G chip + touchscreen. Somehow Apple charges 650 dollar for an iPhone and 99 dollar for the AppleTV.
Apple could sell cheap phones if the wanted, but its more fun making money. Many parts in 3GS is more expensive then the Iphone4, still its cheaper.
Not even close. There is a huge cost difference from from components, licensing, engineering, and manufacturing.
Apples pricing is artificial.
AppleTV have the same hardware as iPhone beside 3G chip + touchscreen. Somehow Apple charges 650 dollar for an iPhone and 99 dollar for the AppleTV.
Apple could sell cheap phones if the wanted, but its more fun making money. Many parts in 3GS is more expensive then the Iphone4, still its cheaper.
You need to learn more about this sort of thing. What you've said is blatantly wrong.
When I travel for business, I mainly see iPhones and very few BB's anymore. To me, it's not the phone, which is great, but it's the entire Apple experience. No other vendor offers as much, that is so easy to use, functional for everyday life or work and like Apple says, it just works!
Right now, they offer the very best value for me and my family. Great job Apple.
"Though Apple's massive spike in sales helped the company close the gap on Android, Google's mobile platform remains the most popular choice among smartphone owners in the U.S. Nielsen found that 46.3 percent of all domestic smartphone owners have an Android device, compared to the 30 percent share iOS holds."
The cheerleading here doesn't change the fact that this is temporary. A new product will always produce a spike. But if you look closely iOS Smartphone share is losing ground fast. The days of iPhone leading the market as long gone.
Apple will also eventually lose in the tablet market but Apple will always retain the highest loyalty of any brand. Thats what you get when you control both hardware and software
When did Apple ever have have a dominate share of the mobile OSes? Before Android took off it Symbian was in the lead. Apple has been doing their thing, increasing their profits, while Android is eating the marketshare of the other mobile OSes and the vendors using Android OS taking a little of the profit away from non-Apple players.
Samsung and a few other android oems have recorded increasing profits post android release
Android's constant missteps is only reason Apple should be able to overtake a free OS uses by dozens of vendors on hundreds of devices, but it has to be substantial and repetitive. Even Windows has 90%+ despite their mishaps because what they do right they do very well, even though Apple is by far the most profitable PC vendor on the planet (and handset vendor).
The US market also has a 55% saturation rate, which is much faster than I would have expected. This is good news for Apple, not for Android. Android will continue to do better in emerging markets with cheaper devices and less saturation. The US with its hundreds of Apple Stores and multiple generations of smartphone users are much more inclined to buy an iPhone than an Android-based phone regardless of what they have before so I agree that the US will show the iPhone uptick in a better light (compared to the world as a whole).
Apple has cheap phones. You can get a 3Gs all the way up to the 4s for free. Apples lion share of profits comes from emerging markets
The problem here is that, in 6 months, the growth for iOS smartphone will slow again because of anticipation of iphone 5, while new Android phones will keep coming out every 3 months and maintain the lead.
IMO Apple still needs an additional model, and makes alternate launch cycles every half-year (Sep for traditional launch, Mar for variation launch). E.g. they could make a larger screen 4s model in March, and iPhone 5 in Sep.
Android maintain the lead in what? Profits?
Android maintain the lead in what? Profits?
Marketshare is the only thing in which Android leads. Apple has HALF of the profits of ALL cell phones sold.
Apple will also eventually lose in the tablet market but Apple will always retain the highest loyalty of any brand. Thats what you get when you control both hardware and software
What do you mean by "lose"? If you mean that Apple will continue to grow to be 3X the size of Google and be able to buy MS, Dell, Google and Intel and you call that "lose", then yes, Apple will lose.