Do you have a link that shows the iPad approved for use by the US intelligence services and/or military? You might be correct, but I don't believe so. The RIM Playbook was approved for the US Defense Network, but I'm not aware of the iPad passing muster yet.
CJCS gets classified briefings on one and Navy deploying them on ship for use with strike planning. Marines also using in Afghanistan.
As Apple refused to sign the FRAND agreement, but rather wanted to sign another agreement with FRAND clauses and prices included, they forgeit their FRAND rights. Motorala were not obliged to licence the patents to Apple under this altered agreement. At least that is how this judge sees it. Apple can enter a FRAND agreement and get the ban lifted instantly but in doing so they forfeit their right to fight the patent itself which is what they want to do. It also opens the door for Motorola to ask a higher than FRAND payment for items already sold outside of the FRAND agreement.
My understanding is this is not quite right. The problem with FRAND licensing is nobody knows what the other licensees are paying. Instead, under supposed German law, Apple has to make Motorola a FRAND offer (as opposed to Motorola handing Apple a contract). Apple did that. Apple, however, wanted to reserve the right to challenge the validity of the patent. In my mind that seems reasonable, but one German Court thought that was unfair to other licensees. Keep in mind, the Court doesn't know what other licensees pay or the terms of those contracts.
Since nobody knows what other parties pay it is hard for a party like Apple to argue terms are discriminatory. For instance, it is rumored that some FRAND patent holders like Sony pay no licensing fees. This is likely why Apple recently got a Court to allow Apple to determine what Sony pays, if anything, in FRAND fees to Motorola. If Sony pays nothing, Apple probably has a pretty strong case it is being discriminated against.
They can buy the Dell Venue. I don't understand why it's so important to you to find some technicality showing my post was incorrect. It wasn't. My original post:
"I don't think iPhones are approved for secure use by the US military or intelligence agencies. Specific Android-based phones have been."
Get it now?
You are not getting this at all are you.
Can military personnel go and buy a Dell Venue off the rack and use it?
I still don't see anything about the iPad. In addition more recent articles indicate that Apple products are not (yet?) approved for secure Defense Dept or intelligence agency use, altho the government may have made some allowance for the head of the Joint Chiefs to use his personal iPad following specific protocols.
Wow! Really?
Step 1. Go to your favorite search engine
Step 2. Enter, "iPads in the military" in the search field
Step 3. Look through results
Step 4. Click on link. If not applicable, repeat Step 3.
Again, this was the first listing Yahoo gave me when I searched for, "iPads in the military"
Your problem seems to be not that you CAN'T find anything, it's that you DON'T WANT TO find anything. If you want to make a point, try backing it up, otherwise you're just a tool... troll... whatever.
With all the losers around here who can't spell "lose," I'd be careful not to be too loose in my spelling of "losses."
Ha, I don't normally pick people up on spelling mistakes (because my English isn't that great either), but that was the third time today I have seen 'lose' spelt wrong, and perhaps the 5th or 6th this week.
Ha, I don't normally pick people up on spelling mistakes (because my English isn't that great either), but that was the third time today I have seen 'lose' spelt wrong, and perhaps the 5th or 6th this week.
I know, it's not fair because English is so weird and inconsistent, but there's been a rash of "loosers" lately, so I figured why not post a reminder. Especially since it was only a typo this time on pridon's part and not a genuine misunderstanding.
I wonder how many lose track of the real spelling because so many others are too loose with their "o"s? And how many are still learning this crazy language, and just temporarily losing the battle?
In other words, being a former English teacher, I sometimes can't help myself. I lose patience.
Your problem seems to be not that you CAN'T find anything, it's that you DON'T WANT TO find anything. If you want to make a point, try backing it up, otherwise you're just a tool... troll... whatever.
IF the iPhone and/or iPad is approved for secure uses by the Dept of Defense or US Intelligence agencies, apparently they don't know it.
"Research in Motion’s BlackBerry OS has been the platform of choice for the Department of Defense for many years thanks to RIM’s robust security. However, with the rise of Google’s Android and Apple’s iOS operating systems, the DoD may be moving away from BlackBerry devices. In a recent Security Technical Implementation Guide, the DoD approved the use of Android-powered devices by its staff, but the Dell Venue is currently the only phone that qualifies. The DoD states that a device must be running Android 2.2 and have the Android Market stripped from its core in order to be used by staff. Moreover, all web browsing must be done through a DoD proxy server and classified information cannot be sent, received or accessed by Android handsets. Apple’s iPhones and iPads are also being tested by the Defense Information Systems Agency, however due to Apple’s tightly controlled ecosystem, the devices have not yet been approved. Installing DoD third-party security software was more difficult on iOS than Android’s open-source framework. Additionally, government officials said they were uncomfortable with Apple’s ability to track its users’ locations."
Your problem seems to be not that you CAN'T find anything, it's that you DON'T WANT TO find anything. If you want to make a point, try backing it up, otherwise you're just a tool... troll... whatever.
From your link:
The brass was wary when they first heard what Carlson and his fellow pilots were up to at Camp Bastion in Helmand province. They weren’t sure if a commercial product was secure enough to handle in-combat transmissions (though only non-classified maps were being stored on the devices). But about a year later, the brass appears to be on-board — at least on a trial-basis. . ."
I still haven't seen where iPads in general have been approved for DoD secure uses. Certainly not for classified (secure) docs according to this article.
Name-calling sounds kinda silly and juvenile when you can't prove your own claim. Actually it almost always sounds silly and juvenile whether you have a point or not.
"Research in Motion?s BlackBerry OS has been the platform of choice for the Department of Defense for many years thanks to RIM?s robust security. However, with the rise of Google?s Android and Apple?s iOS operating systems, the DoD may be moving away from BlackBerry devices. In a recent Security Technical Implementation Guide, the DoD approved the use of Android-powered devices by its staff, but the Dell Venue is currently the only phone that qualifies. The DoD states that a device must be running Android 2.2 and have the Android Market stripped from its core in order to be used by staff. Moreover, all web browsing must be done through a DoD proxy server and classified information cannot be sent, received or accessed by Android handsets. Apple?s iPhones and iPads are also being tested by the Defense Information Systems Agency, however due to Apple?s tightly controlled ecosystem, the devices have not yet been approved. Installing DoD third-party security software was more difficult on iOS than Android?s open-source framework. Additionally, government officials said they were uncomfortable with Apple?s ability to track its users? locations."
Sounds pretty cut-and-dried to me.
Uhh, yeah, this was the old crapberry phones that are still being used and passed down. They are utter garbage, no one wants or likes them, but if you are a CoS, medical, duty officer, you are forced to use it. When they work, that is. No classified information is ever passed via a BB though. Oh and by the way, my last command and current command, both very large joint commands, prefer and want iPhones for duty purposes. Don't think it will happen though.
Can military personnel go and buy a Dell Venue off the rack and use it?
Ah, changing the argument I see, and to something quite silly. I don't think soldiers can bring their own tanks, transports, munitions, etc to use on the battlefield either.
I never argued they could, so what in Heaven's name does that have to do with the original post that you seem dead-set on disagreeing with?
As Apple refused to sign the FRAND agreement, but rather wanted to sign another agreement with FRAND clauses and prices included, they forgeit their FRAND rights. Motorala were not obliged to licence the patents to Apple under this altered agreement. At least that is how this judge sees it. Apple can enter a FRAND agreement and get the ban lifted instantly but in doing so they forfeit their right to fight the patent itself which is what they want to do. It also opens the door for Motorola to ask a higher than FRAND payment for items already sold outside of the FRAND agreement.
It all comes down to if Apple want to fight this all the way, and then seeing who wins. I believe that Apple know they are violating patents but think they can have the patent invalidated in a court battle.
The Samsung one is a totally different situation because Samsung are arguing they should have more than FRAND payments for FRAND patents. I doubt that Samsung will be penalised heavily for this as they are trying this out against Apple, not an up and coming company that doesnt have the cash to fight Samsung in any arena they wish.
Motorola will not be investigated for trying to enforce a patent that Apple have refused to sign a FRAND agreement for. Had Apple signed the agreement it would be another story.
That is a lay man's interpretation based on what I have read over the last few months. Of course it is only as good as the reliability of my information.
Quote:
I think it's fairly clear that the Motorola patent is this case really is FRAND. The murky point is the question of who made the first mistake.
Even if the patent is found to be valid and FRAND, then damages could still easily flow either from Motorola to Apple, or from Apple to Motorola, depending on other circumstances of the case.
Did Motorola offer terms which Apple rejected? Did Apple make a counter-offer which Motorola rejected?
Was Motorola's original offer contrary to the principles of FRAND patents? Was Apple's counter-offer contrary to the principles of FRAND patents?
The answers to these questions would all come into play when determining whether or not Motorola would owe Apple damages for lost sales due to the current injunction, and whether or not Apple owes Motorola damages for the period where Apple may have been wilfully infringing.
I think that sums it up quite nicely.
To Tallest Skil and the others screaming "FRAND FRAND FRAND!", the fact that the patent is a FRAND patent is not the issue here; the issue is whether or not the offers and counter offers were under FRAND terms.
Thanks for not bothering to read my explanation. Thanks for the completely laughable accusation.
They just keep piling on the bon mots.
The problem is that your explaination is not reflective of what's going on in this case. Its not a question of whether the patent is a FRAND patent or not (it is) or whether apple is inflinging or not (they are). The question is over the terms of the licensing agreement.
Motorola approached apple and offered to license the patent under FRAND terms (presumably)
Apple rejected the offer, and made a counter offer that included a special cause in their contract
Motorola rejected the offer claiming that the cause amounted to special treatment (ie. Not fair, reasonable, and non discrimatory)
Comments
karma
You do understand Motorola sued Apple first, right?
Do you have a link that shows the iPad approved for use by the US intelligence services and/or military? You might be correct, but I don't believe so. The RIM Playbook was approved for the US Defense Network, but I'm not aware of the iPad passing muster yet.
CJCS gets classified briefings on one and Navy deploying them on ship for use with strike planning. Marines also using in Afghanistan.
http://www.dvidshub.net/image/413358...n#.TywtaJV5mSM
http://www.macrumors.com/2011/06/21/...ps-with-ipads/
As Apple refused to sign the FRAND agreement, but rather wanted to sign another agreement with FRAND clauses and prices included, they forgeit their FRAND rights. Motorala were not obliged to licence the patents to Apple under this altered agreement. At least that is how this judge sees it. Apple can enter a FRAND agreement and get the ban lifted instantly but in doing so they forfeit their right to fight the patent itself which is what they want to do. It also opens the door for Motorola to ask a higher than FRAND payment for items already sold outside of the FRAND agreement.
My understanding is this is not quite right. The problem with FRAND licensing is nobody knows what the other licensees are paying. Instead, under supposed German law, Apple has to make Motorola a FRAND offer (as opposed to Motorola handing Apple a contract). Apple did that. Apple, however, wanted to reserve the right to challenge the validity of the patent. In my mind that seems reasonable, but one German Court thought that was unfair to other licensees. Keep in mind, the Court doesn't know what other licensees pay or the terms of those contracts.
Since nobody knows what other parties pay it is hard for a party like Apple to argue terms are discriminatory. For instance, it is rumored that some FRAND patent holders like Sony pay no licensing fees. This is likely why Apple recently got a Court to allow Apple to determine what Sony pays, if anything, in FRAND fees to Motorola. If Sony pays nothing, Apple probably has a pretty strong case it is being discriminated against.
Just so were clear...
Apple wins suit against someone = good and fair
Apple loses suit against someone = bad and unfair
Pretty much accurate?
Yes, that's how this site works. Ironically, one of the biggest trolls seems to be a mod!
They can buy the Dell Venue. I don't understand why it's so important to you to find some technicality showing my post was incorrect. It wasn't. My original post:
"I don't think iPhones are approved for secure use by the US military or intelligence agencies. Specific Android-based phones have been."
Get it now?
You are not getting this at all are you.
Can military personnel go and buy a Dell Venue off the rack and use it?
I still don't see anything about the iPad. In addition more recent articles indicate that Apple products are not (yet?) approved for secure Defense Dept or intelligence agency use, altho the government may have made some allowance for the head of the Joint Chiefs to use his personal iPad following specific protocols.
Wow! Really?
Step 1. Go to your favorite search engine
Step 2. Enter, "iPads in the military" in the search field
Step 3. Look through results
Step 4. Click on link. If not applicable, repeat Step 3.
Again, this was the first listing Yahoo gave me when I searched for, "iPads in the military"
http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2011...th-on-an-ipad/
Your problem seems to be not that you CAN'T find anything, it's that you DON'T WANT TO find anything. If you want to make a point, try backing it up, otherwise you're just a tool... troll... whatever.
With all the losers around here who can't spell "lose," I'd be careful not to be too loose in my spelling of "losses."
Ha, I don't normally pick people up on spelling mistakes (because my English isn't that great either), but that was the third time today I have seen 'lose' spelt wrong, and perhaps the 5th or 6th this week.
Ha, I don't normally pick people up on spelling mistakes (because my English isn't that great either), but that was the third time today I have seen 'lose' spelt wrong, and perhaps the 5th or 6th this week.
I know, it's not fair because English is so weird and inconsistent, but there's been a rash of "loosers" lately, so I figured why not post a reminder. Especially since it was only a typo this time on pridon's part and not a genuine misunderstanding.
I wonder how many lose track of the real spelling because so many others are too loose with their "o"s? And how many are still learning this crazy language, and just temporarily losing the battle?
In other words, being a former English teacher, I sometimes can't help myself. I lose patience.
Wow! Really?
Step 1. Go to your favorite search engine
Step 2. Enter, "iPads in the military" in the search field
Step 3. Look through results
Step 4. Click on link. If not applicable, repeat Step 3.
Again, this was the first listing Yahoo gave me when I searched for, "iPads in the military"
http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2011...th-on-an-ipad/
Your problem seems to be not that you CAN'T find anything, it's that you DON'T WANT TO find anything. If you want to make a point, try backing it up, otherwise you're just a tool... troll... whatever.
IF the iPhone and/or iPad is approved for secure uses by the Dept of Defense or US Intelligence agencies, apparently they don't know it.
http://www.bgr.com/2011/12/28/pentag...its-clearance/
"Research in Motion’s BlackBerry OS has been the platform of choice for the Department of Defense for many years thanks to RIM’s robust security. However, with the rise of Google’s Android and Apple’s iOS operating systems, the DoD may be moving away from BlackBerry devices. In a recent Security Technical Implementation Guide, the DoD approved the use of Android-powered devices by its staff, but the Dell Venue is currently the only phone that qualifies. The DoD states that a device must be running Android 2.2 and have the Android Market stripped from its core in order to be used by staff. Moreover, all web browsing must be done through a DoD proxy server and classified information cannot be sent, received or accessed by Android handsets. Apple’s iPhones and iPads are also being tested by the Defense Information Systems Agency, however due to Apple’s tightly controlled ecosystem, the devices have not yet been approved. Installing DoD third-party security software was more difficult on iOS than Android’s open-source framework. Additionally, government officials said they were uncomfortable with Apple’s ability to track its users’ locations."
Sounds pretty cut-and-dried to me.
Wow! Really?
Step 1. Go to your favorite search engine
Step 2. Enter, "iPads in the military" in the search field
Step 3. Look through results
Step 4. Click on link. If not applicable, repeat Step 3.
Again, this was the first listing Yahoo gave me when I searched for, "iPads in the military"
http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2011...th-on-an-ipad/
Your problem seems to be not that you CAN'T find anything, it's that you DON'T WANT TO find anything. If you want to make a point, try backing it up, otherwise you're just a tool... troll... whatever.
From your link:
The brass was wary when they first heard what Carlson and his fellow pilots were up to at Camp Bastion in Helmand province. They weren’t sure if a commercial product was secure enough to handle in-combat transmissions (though only non-classified maps were being stored on the devices). But about a year later, the brass appears to be on-board — at least on a trial-basis. . ."
I still haven't seen where iPads in general have been approved for DoD secure uses. Certainly not for classified (secure) docs according to this article.
Name-calling sounds kinda silly and juvenile when you can't prove your own claim. Actually it almost always sounds silly and juvenile whether you have a point or not.
IF the iPhone and/or iPad is approved for secure uses by the Dept of Defense or US Intelligence agencies, apparently they don't know it.
http://www.bgr.com/2011/12/28/pentag...its-clearance/
"Research in Motion?s BlackBerry OS has been the platform of choice for the Department of Defense for many years thanks to RIM?s robust security. However, with the rise of Google?s Android and Apple?s iOS operating systems, the DoD may be moving away from BlackBerry devices. In a recent Security Technical Implementation Guide, the DoD approved the use of Android-powered devices by its staff, but the Dell Venue is currently the only phone that qualifies. The DoD states that a device must be running Android 2.2 and have the Android Market stripped from its core in order to be used by staff. Moreover, all web browsing must be done through a DoD proxy server and classified information cannot be sent, received or accessed by Android handsets. Apple?s iPhones and iPads are also being tested by the Defense Information Systems Agency, however due to Apple?s tightly controlled ecosystem, the devices have not yet been approved. Installing DoD third-party security software was more difficult on iOS than Android?s open-source framework. Additionally, government officials said they were uncomfortable with Apple?s ability to track its users? locations."
Sounds pretty cut-and-dried to me.
Uhh, yeah, this was the old crapberry phones that are still being used and passed down. They are utter garbage, no one wants or likes them, but if you are a CoS, medical, duty officer, you are forced to use it. When they work, that is. No classified information is ever passed via a BB though. Oh and by the way, my last command and current command, both very large joint commands, prefer and want iPhones for duty purposes. Don't think it will happen though.
Yes, that's how this site works. Ironically, one of the biggest trolls seems to be a mod!
LOL. Yeah
You are not getting this at all are you.
Can military personnel go and buy a Dell Venue off the rack and use it?
Ah, changing the argument I see, and to something quite silly. I don't think soldiers can bring their own tanks, transports, munitions, etc to use on the battlefield either.
I never argued they could, so what in Heaven's name does that have to do with the original post that you seem dead-set on disagreeing with?
Yes, that's how this site works. Ironically, one of the biggest trolls seems to be a mod!
That is the reason he became a mod. Hilarious.
Injunction Junction, what's your function?
Banning devices for breaking some patents?
Injunction Junction, who has gumption?
I got three iDevices
that get slavishly copied?
Injunction Junction, what's their function?
iPad, iPhone, iPod,
they'll get you pretty far?
iPad.
That's a tablet, the first of the NEW tablets.
iPhone.
A revolutionary smartphone;
Not the first with a touch, but the first
to do it right.
i, Pod. When you want your music right
in your pocket. Or clipped on
as the case may be.
Injunction Junction, what's your function?
They say they're competing but it's
nothing but flattery.
Injunction Junction, what's your function?
Et cetera.
Like a monkey in the zoo
You re half gorilla too
When you pound it with your fist
And make it real stiff
Big dick
Gotta cover your mistake
Your bloody outtakes
So you dip it in the wine
And make a holy sign
Big dick
Big dick! Come quick
Big dick! Come quick
Well you re running up a tree
You re trying not too sream
But you are pounding on your chest
Like you wipped the best
Big dick
The rivers of blood
You ve spilled have turned to mud
Now the flies are buzzin round
Don t it make a loud sound
Big dick
Big dick! Come quick
Big dick! Come quick
It won t be long
Till those bad bits are gone
It won t be long
Till those bad bits are gone
Now we are sitting by the fire
But daddy s getting tired
`cause hes drunk the whole crock
now he s got a limp cock
Big dick
Big dick! Come quick
Big dick! Come quick
NMN - Big Dick
Et cetera.
As Apple refused to sign the FRAND agreement, but rather wanted to sign another agreement with FRAND clauses and prices included, they forgeit their FRAND rights. Motorala were not obliged to licence the patents to Apple under this altered agreement. At least that is how this judge sees it. Apple can enter a FRAND agreement and get the ban lifted instantly but in doing so they forfeit their right to fight the patent itself which is what they want to do. It also opens the door for Motorola to ask a higher than FRAND payment for items already sold outside of the FRAND agreement.
It all comes down to if Apple want to fight this all the way, and then seeing who wins. I believe that Apple know they are violating patents but think they can have the patent invalidated in a court battle.
The Samsung one is a totally different situation because Samsung are arguing they should have more than FRAND payments for FRAND patents. I doubt that Samsung will be penalised heavily for this as they are trying this out against Apple, not an up and coming company that doesnt have the cash to fight Samsung in any arena they wish.
Motorola will not be investigated for trying to enforce a patent that Apple have refused to sign a FRAND agreement for. Had Apple signed the agreement it would be another story.
That is a lay man's interpretation based on what I have read over the last few months. Of course it is only as good as the reliability of my information.
I think it's fairly clear that the Motorola patent is this case really is FRAND. The murky point is the question of who made the first mistake.
Even if the patent is found to be valid and FRAND, then damages could still easily flow either from Motorola to Apple, or from Apple to Motorola, depending on other circumstances of the case.
Did Motorola offer terms which Apple rejected? Did Apple make a counter-offer which Motorola rejected?
Was Motorola's original offer contrary to the principles of FRAND patents? Was Apple's counter-offer contrary to the principles of FRAND patents?
The answers to these questions would all come into play when determining whether or not Motorola would owe Apple damages for lost sales due to the current injunction, and whether or not Apple owes Motorola damages for the period where Apple may have been wilfully infringing.
I think that sums it up quite nicely.
To Tallest Skil and the others screaming "FRAND FRAND FRAND!", the fact that the patent is a FRAND patent is not the issue here; the issue is whether or not the offers and counter offers were under FRAND terms.
That is the reason he became a mod. Hilarious.
If so, then Apple][ should be the owner of this site
If so, then Apple][ should be the owner of this site
Im pretty sure Apple changed his user ID, or is using another one. All it will take is one human interest story to out him.
Hint: He'll be the one who says people deserve to die and live in poverty because they aren't as smart as him.
Yes, that's how this site works. Ironically, one of the biggest trolls seems to be a mod!
Thanks for not bothering to read my explanation. Thanks for the completely laughable accusation.
LOL. Yeah
They just keep piling on the bon mots.
Thanks for not bothering to read my explanation. Thanks for the completely laughable accusation.
They just keep piling on the bon mots.
The problem is that your explaination is not reflective of what's going on in this case. Its not a question of whether the patent is a FRAND patent or not (it is) or whether apple is inflinging or not (they are). The question is over the terms of the licensing agreement.
Motorola approached apple and offered to license the patent under FRAND terms (presumably)
Apple rejected the offer, and made a counter offer that included a special cause in their contract
Motorola rejected the offer claiming that the cause amounted to special treatment (ie. Not fair, reasonable, and non discrimatory)