I'm not sure if there is a font size big enough for people to notice your points. Anybody that considers an optical drive to be a pro feature these days is far behind the curve. There is only a few specialties left where such a drive might be considered a requirement and even in those industries demand for optical drives is declining.
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Originally Posted by SolipsismX
Seriously, are you pulling my chain? Did you not read:
I see the future MBPs as having a CPU falling into the 35/45W TDP range (that means not a CULV), upgradable RAM (not soldered to the logic board), and a dGPU in at least the 15 and 17" models.
I did forget to add that it will have more ports than the MBA.
I can also see the pros getting the high resolution screens first. Mainly because they will have the graphics chops to drive them well. It is still a mystery with respect to Ivy Bridges performance driving such screens, so I'm not sure if the AIRS will transition to high resolution screens right away.
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Did the MBP lose it's Pro-ness or get better when it followed the original MBA case design? I think it got a lot better. It got thinner and sturdier yet it didn't lose andy performance in the process so why do you think following the tapered design and losing the antiquated optical drive means that it has to lose the discrete graphics or any other silly thing that makes the MBA an ultraportable notebook?
Beyond that Apple is doing really well in the Notebook portable space these days. They will be careful to avoid screwing that up. That won't stop them from innovating of course but it will cause them to make sure that a new MBP release keeps the performance component of the line up available. Contrary to the opinions of many notebooks still lag performance wise in a number of aspects, the market has yet to meet the needs of every user. Thus I can easily see Apple offering both a 15" AIR and a MBP. It is all about different strokes for different folks.
I expect that the next MacBook Pro will have most or all of these features which the MacBook Air does not have:
- 25 to 35W CPUs
- discreet graphics
- two (rather than one) SSD slots
- Ethernet port
- Full-speed Thunderbolt port
- HiDPI display
- HD webcam
- 10 hour battery
- 8GB RAM BTO option
See? *sigh* ?I'm starting to think that both names might be dead. Seriously. It gives them a LOT of leeway to ignore "pro" features.
One product: MacBook.
Four sizes: 11", 13", 15", 17".
No discrete graphics, no Ethernet port, two Thunderbolt ports, two USB ports, in/out audio in a single port, and, yeah, room for two of those SSD sticks (not standard size drives) in the 15" and 17" models.
Just as a note regarding the potential redesigns, and as an avid Apple equipment owner, there are some concerns I have.
Everybody has concerns. My hope here is that Apple sees a clear line between the AIR like machines and the MBP.
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Firstly, removing the optical drive does have limitations and problems, and "Cloud" doesn't solve them.
The could doesn't solve half the issues people think it solves. When ever I see people offering it up as a storage solution I have to cringe a bit.
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Our local ISP, the incumbent cable company is starting to put data transfer caps on connections on a monthly basis that seem quite low, especially if one's software and media are now distributed solely via said connection.
I really don't worry about caps for software installations. Seriously I just drive down to the local library, especially if it is a rather large install. For business that won't work but I just see software installs as a non issue.
On the other hand relying on any sort of network for access to critical media, data or other files is just stupid. Even at work, at a relatively large company, the network can be very congested and at times unusable.
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Beyond that, I have had to install Final Cut Studio a few times (at a previous employer). Let's just say that the full install, with stock loops and such is NOT something I'd care to wait to download or have count against my monthly tally.
Unreasonable data caps do suck. I'm not sure what can be done about that. Right now it is the only way to deal with network congestion in a non discriminatory way.
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Secondly, the company I work for now manufactures networking equipment. The removal of a native Ethernet port means no new equipment for my almost-entirely Mac shop.
For a MBP it would be stupidity beyond belief. I work in another industry and find that a network port is more important than any other port on my MBP. This would be automation in industrial settings. Between the lack of a ethernet port and room for secondary storage these are the big reasons I haven't gone the AIR route.
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Dongles and adapters, while adding measures of latency and even errors in some situations, are also a poor design. USB dongles are even worse; relying on the CPU and active backend to handle the most basic of tasks, rather than a smarter chip that interfaces on the normal accessory-device bus.
The big issue that I have observed with USB is the issue of reliability. In that regards USB can't be relied upon for network use. In fact it is pretty much terrible for RS232 use. In automation circles RS232(or various other serial flavors) and ethernet are still the biggest interface standard going, if you can't drive them reliably then your goose is cooked.
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We see this effect in USB hard drives (crap most often) versus the superior (if, sadly, only technologically) FireWire and ostensibly ThunderBolt (haven't tested TB yet myself). Having a TB adapter would be more palatable, but there are a NUMBER of issues that having an adapter changing from one data format to another, before going through another translation to get to the heart of the machine is problematic. One of the key benefits when I was able to chuck the crap Dell laptop that I had for a 17" MBP was that my Gigabit Ethernet actually could do a gigabit's worth of throughput. The Dell's crapped out around 430mbit.
Apple does an excellent job with their ethernet interface, I would suspect that it is best in the class. Again I see indications that people really don't understand the importance of a well done ethernet interface, probably because they have never used one.
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To me, were I imagining an ideal device
1) Drop ODD ONLY if a proper TB or (God Forbid) USB drive could be used to view a movie. Many USB CD drives I've used on my home theater Mac Mini work great for data but won't show a DVD movie
Given a choice between a SSD & HD combo and no optical and an optical without the potential of a combo I would go for the SSD & HD combo without pause. The reason is pretty simple, right now I carry an external drive with me where ever I go, but I seldom use the internal.
I agree with the issue with regards to the playing of movies but honestly I didn't know that was such an issue. In any event a TB based dock would take care of that issue I would imagine.
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2) GigE and FireWire should stay. Or, TB can replace FireWire if TB can be used in TDD mode and (ideally) a TB <-> FireWire adapter can be had. As the IT guy, Target Mode has saved many a system from HDD death.
GigE has to stay, you will get no argument there.
I've never made extensive use of Firewire. I can see TB gaining far greater acceptance than Firewire ever did. In that regards I'd like to see it implemented as two ports on future MBP's. That is a bit of gamble but I just see TB going much farther than Firewire ever did.
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3) Why SSD or Spinning drive only? Hybrid SSD + Spinning drive. 1TB + 128GB SSD in 9mm thick drive would give the best of both worlds. Perhaps a bit of smarts to let it know what to store and where... But, as a person who keeps over 500GB worth of virtual machines on my laptop (ready for a number of testing scenarios), going to a small SSD would be killer for me.
That would be the most economical choice right now. The combo would give us the best performance at the least cost for bulk storage.
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4) Dear God, please let us few who like it still have an option at least of a matte screen. I snagged a 17", 2.8GHz with a matte screen and thank my lucky stars every time I have to work on a glossy or even look to my secondary screen (A 27" Core i7 Quad iMac via mDP) that I don't have to do that every day.
After owning one I'm not a big fan of matte screens at all. Implemented on a high-resolution screen they would be a joke.
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5) WiFi, 802.11ac as an addition 802.11n backstopping with a 3x3 or 4x4 diversity antenna system would pair really well with a AirPort Pro or TimeCapsule Pro. Hint hint. More antennas also allows for the beamforming and steering portions of multi-diversity WiFi systems to deliver data more reliably.
I'm all for better Wifi, but where does one put al of those antennas?
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6) Whole Screen AirPlay out. Neat feature and could easily help to eliminate problems with projectors and dongles and could sell the hell our of current AppleTV devices, and be a nice play for a home Apple television. Not a big fan of congesting the WiFi airwaves anymore than they are, but properly done, it could be.
Apple is a little behind on implementing this tech on the Macs. This is mostly a software issue right now though.
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7) Retina display. Lofty but who wouldn't want a 4k display. Not to mention, I'd get a second one and probably start looking for ways to drive it in a home made projector.
This would probably be more useful than on an iPad. So looking forward to it.
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8) Get rid of third USB port on laptop. Hell, maybe even second too.
No! No. no. As much as i hate USB for its reliability issues I use two ports every day and find my self wishing I had another on my MBP.
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I've used two at a time max on my 17" MBP. I'm sure there are some using all three at once, but really, rare is the set of USB keys and USB cords that can all fit at the same time. Unpowered USB hub would work, and since timing/latency critical anything should never go over USB, it wouldn't be terrible for USB as a whole.
Actually it would suck royally. I have a HD disk connected all the time to my MBP plus my iOS device intermittently, USB storage sticks of various flavors and other assorted dongles.
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9) Cellular/GPS/LTE optional. I probably wouldn't get it myself, but I know some ballyhoo over it. Personally, Hotspot sharing over the iPhone works great for me...
Interesting as at one time I was really hoping for that feature to be built into the notebooks. These days Id rather see them offer an expansion bay / port, that could be sued for multiple purposes. Why an expansion port instead of USB, mainly for the speed and reliability of PCI-Express. Granted that speed isn't needed for LTE but it could be put to use for other options.
Really, if there is anything in a MBP that can keep the unit useful for a long time it is a dGPU. The ability of software to take advantage of such hardware is only increasing, even web browsers are now taking advantage of GPU acceleration. Say all you want about the improved GPU in Ivy Bridge but it remains to be seen if it is really all it is cracked up to be. Even then dGPU's help simply by having their own RAM. This is the first thing that popped into my mind when I saw your post, so I have to ask who would want such a notebook to replace their MBP?
As to some of the other requests:
Ethernet is still needed, it is one of the best features of the MBP.
Combo audio ports suck! Such ports might work for AIR users but can be a real negative for flexibility.
Two TB ports I agree with. I'd like to see Firewire replaced by one of those.
Frankly I'd like to see three USB ports.
As to SSD storage two wouldn't be too bad but I suspect that Apple will likely go with an industry standard here of some sort. Various corporations are working on a new SSD card format so I wouldn't be surprised if Apple was involved.
RAM needs to be on standard mobile cards supporting the latest standards. No special purpose hardware for the MBPs!
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Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
See? *sigh* ?I'm starting to think that both names might be dead. Seriously. It gives them a LOT of leeway to ignore "pro" features.
One product: MacBook.
Four sizes: 11", 13", 15", 17".
No discrete graphics, no Ethernet port, two Thunderbolt ports, two USB ports, in/out audio in a single port, and, yeah, room for two of those SSD sticks (not standard size drives) in the 15" and 17" models.
After owning one I'm not a big fan of matte screens at all. Implemented on a high-resolution screen they would be a joke.
They're still immensely helpful for a lot of people. What you're seeing (and hating) is the use of cheap matte coatings to cut costs. The problem is that margins on lcd panels aren't that great so it tends to invite such measures.
Really, if there is anything in a MBP that can keep the unit useful for a long time it is a dGPU. ?so I have to ask who would want such a notebook to replace their MBP?
Want? Likely no one. But again, this isn't a MacBook Pro anymore. It's just one big MacBook family.
Don't be surprised if they pull something like that.
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Ethernet is still needed, it is one of the best features of the MBP.
Even with 802.11ac?
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Combo audio ports suck! Such ports might work for AIR users but can be a real negative for flexibility.
Mhmm.
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Two TB ports I agree with. I'd like to see Firewire replaced by one of those.
I was going to say three, but my mental image ran out of logic board space.
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Frankly I'd like to see three USB ports.
Same with this. I wanted at least two USB and couldn't shoehorn in a third alongside two Thunderbolt ports.
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As to SSD storage two wouldn't be too bad but I suspect that Apple will likely go with an industry standard here of some sort.
Isn't the MacBook Air's stick a standard connector?
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RAM needs to be on standard mobile cards supporting the latest standards. No special purpose hardware for the MBPs!
I? would hope the RAM at least is still user-upgradable on the 15" and 17" models.
I'm back in pessimist mode here. Killing the ODD for good will make Apple go Air-crazy with the MacBook Pro family. They'll upgrade a lot at once (extra Thunderbolt, 802.11ac, etc.), but there will be tradeoffs that people more familiar with traditional laptops just won't like at all.
But that's to be expected. Apple will be creating the very first transtops should the MacBook family get a redesign next update. "Transtops" being the name I'm using for computers between the old style laptop (a bunch of different ports, an optical drive, and what have you) and the fully touchscreen designs that we'll see around the end of the decade.
You are right about current matte approaches, they are cheap low quality coatings. Sadly I believe Apple could demand any type of anti reflective coating they wanted and get it. There is much in the way of vacuum coating available these days.
In the end I'm still of the opinion that traditional matte displays adversely affect quality. I compare my 2008 MBP matte screen to my iPad 1 and the iPad is a far better screen for viewing quality.
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Originally Posted by hmm
They're still immensely helpful for a lot of people. What you're seeing (and hating) is the use of cheap matte coatings to cut costs. The problem is that margins on lcd panels aren't that great so it tends to invite such measures.
Ethernet is still needed, it is one of the best features of the MBP.
Even with 802.11ac?
Sure. Ethernet is faster and more secure.
On top of that 802.11ac has barely even made a mark with shipping products. That said, that standards body is much better than for 802.11n so it's completion and adoption should happen much faster. That means I won't be surprised if the next MBPs offer it. That does meas we'll also need new AirPort routers either at or before their launch (hopefully running iOS and with some server-esque features)
That said, i never use my ethernet port. I probably never will again but that doesn't mean i don't think it's needed. The only place I think it can fit without altering the port size or making some very stupid extended port lip like you see in some thin notebooks is on the back right side which i think means Apple probably can't go past 0.90" (22.86mm), estimation, for the thickest part of the machine.
Want? Likely no one. But again, this isn't a MacBook Pro anymore. It's just one big MacBook family.
Which would be foolish considering how well Apples laptops are selling. I see both a 15" AIR and a new MBP coming.
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Don't be surprised if they pull something like that.
Apple has done stupid things in the past so anything is possible. In this case I just don't see it happening. The reality is the market for a15" AIR is entirely different from that for a 15" MBP. More so I want a far more versatile and powerful MBP.
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Even with 802.11ac?
In many cases you just don't have a choice.
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Mhmm.
I was going to say three, but my mental image ran out of logic board space.
Remember loosing the optical leads to much more access to the side of the machine.
The other factor is the power budget. Each TB and USB port needs a allocation from the machines power budget. I believe that would be ten watts for each TB port, plus whatever standard each USB port supports.
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Same with this. I wanted at least two USB and couldn't shoehorn in a third alongside two Thunderbolt ports.
I don't see a problem on a 15" MBP.
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Isn't the MacBook Air's stick a standard connector?
Not from what I understand.
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I? would hope the RAM at least is still user-upgradable on the 15" and 17" models.
Yes a requirement for a Pro computer.
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I'm back in pessimist mode here. Killing the ODD for good will make Apple go Air-crazy with the MacBook Pro family. They'll upgrade a lot at once (extra Thunderbolt, 802.11ac, etc.), but there will be tradeoffs that people more familiar with traditional laptops just won't like at all.
You are assuming that they would drop far to many pro features or not add significant new capabilities. I really don't understand this idea that Apple can't support two dramatically different laptop lines. From my perspective it is as easy as pie, Apple pie that is! 😱
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But that's to be expected. Apple will be creating the very first transtops should the MacBook family get a redesign next update. "Transtops" being the name I'm using for computers between the old style laptop (a bunch of different ports, an optical drive, and what have you) and the fully touchscreen designs that we'll see around the end of the decade.
I see no reason for Apple to pursue the touch screens. I actually see a move to an on board Siri like IA before the end of the decade. Something that handles as much as possible on board before going to the web. It is interesting that Apple calls Siri beta software, I suspect it is a feature that will morph into something Star Trek like.
Isn't the MacBook Air's [SD card] a standard connector?
Not from what I understand..
It is physically the same as PCI Express Mini Card but electrically incompatible. So far OWC makes cards that work in the MBA. I'm not sure if that is licensed by Apple or if it's the exact spec created by the Serial ATA International Organization in 2009.
Are there no truly mobile pros here? If Apple pushes forward on this, they risk doing to their mobile pro market what they've done to their desktop and enterprise pro markets, which is to chase them away with a stick. This is not to say that I don't like technologies such as instant on and Thunderbolt, but I NEED 750 GB on onboard storage (would prefer more) and legacy firewire ports -- and I need them without having to pay a premium in either dollars or weight. Even the external DVD will be a pain, but it is acceptable because of the abysmal failure rates of the internal DVD units squeezed into Apple's already too-tight enclosures. Yes, I look forward to the a lighter unit, a thinner unit, but what I really could use is longer battery life, and the ability to add a second hard drive, or to swap them in and out myself (same goes for batteries). In my dreams I'd really like a more water resistant unit, a retina display, and a touch screen and a track pad that work with inkwell. Come on Apple, it has been over 20 years, let's move beyond expecting your customers to pretend that portable "desktop replaceables" are truly the best mobile computer Apple can produce. Let's put the same high-quality, cutting-edge, no-compomises, goal-oriented technology into your mobile pro development efforts that you put into the iPhone. Let's move beyond our parent's mobile computer.
RAM needs to be on standard mobile cards supporting the latest standards. No special purpose hardware for the MBPs!
Going forward, all Apple laptop RAM will be fixed on the motherboard, just like with the MacBook Air. Apple have been leaving too much money on the table with people buying the minimum RAM configuration and then loading up with third party RAM.
Remember loosing the optical leads to much more access to the side of the machine.
I just immediately assigned that space to battery, because I figured Apple would do that as well.
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You are assuming that they would drop far to many pro features or not add significant new capabilities. I really don't understand this idea that Apple can't support two dramatically different laptop lines. From my perspective it is as easy as pie, Apple pie that is! 😱
I'm not saying they can't; just saying that given the rumor, it doesn't appear as if they want to.
Could they still be selling a MacBook, MacBook Air, and MacBook Pro? Sure. But they already trimmed one out?
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I see no reason for Apple to pursue the touch screens.
OS XI will be multitouch. And it won't run on "laptops" like we understand them now.
It's gonna be the same level of change as going from the Altair to the Apple ][ or the Apple ][ to the Macintosh. That certainly doesn't preclude the inclusion of Siri.
At first I was afraid the new MacBook Pros were gonna be MacBook Airs with low performing GPU's and CPU's. But looking at MacBook Pro teardown pictures I now think it's entirely possible to make a "MacBook Air Pro".
I'm all for the new MacBook Pros, having now owned simultaneously a Pro and and Air and wished for the longest time I could combine their features. Hooray that Apple is doing so. My only concerns are two:
1. Will Apple's new machines permit users to autonomously set the size of system typefaces? I'm sitting here at my Air and swear the type is no more than 4 points large, which means I have to put on my reading glasses and turn up the brightness to max.
2. For such great hardware, why saddle us with trash software like Lion and Mountain Lion (which, from what I've read here, merely exacerbates the things that Mac computer users most dislike about iOS applied to anything other than mobile devices? Why not take this opportunity to come up with something truly novel and exciting, on the order of OS 9 or Snow Leopard when they were introduced?
Fix those, this longtime user is once again a happy camper. Then bring on the new MacBook Pros!
1. Will Apple's new machines permit users to autonomously set the size of system typefaces? I'm sitting here at my Air and swear the type is no more than 4 points large, which means I have to put on my reading glasses and turn up the brightness to max.
HiDPI mode? It's already in OS X, so I'd imagine so.
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2. For such great hardware, why saddle us with trash software like Lion and Mountain Lion
HiDPI mode? It's already in OS X, so I'd imagine so.
Stopped reading right there.
Come off it.
1. How does one invoke HiDPI? I need to see this for myself. No Air owner I know has detected a way to enlarge system type, only screen type -- and then only awkwardly, with multiple commands often for a single browser page, the entire barrage having to be repeated for each subsequent page. If that's what you mean, no, it's not a solution.
2. You have to be kidding if you think these "100-new feature!" versions of Mac OSX made more compatible with iOS do more than (a) offer more developer-dictated futzing in return for diminished real user control and (b) make users more dependent on Apple Inc. for basic services, free for now but obviously just waiting to be monetized -- once the customers are path-determined not to change vendors -- and make third-party developed applications and content less accessible or more expensive via Apple Store/iTunes?
Why with such revolutionary hardware at hand -- thank you, Apple, it's much appreciated, seriously -- would Apple saddle us and suboptimize its new machines' performance with a version of a last-generation OS gummed up with iOS behavioral models? Apple's Hardware and Software divisions should talk to one another more often, and resist Marketing's pleas that their real audience should be digital device users. Yes, it's market logic. But maybe Apple will benefit more in the long run by following insanely-great-computing logic.
Going forward, all Apple laptop RAM will be fixed on the motherboard, just like with the MacBook Air. Apple have been leaving too much money on the table with people buying the minimum RAM configuration and then loading up with third party RAM.
And there is exactly why Apple should leave RAM upgradees to the purchaser. Having a completely closed machine with no user access to RAM or battery makes for a much more expensive and frustrating user upgrade path. Not a good thing.
See? *sigh* ?I'm starting to think that both names might be dead. Seriously. It gives them a LOT of leeway to ignore "pro" features.
One product: MacBook.
Four sizes: 11", 13", 15", 17".
No discrete graphics, no Ethernet port, two Thunderbolt ports, two USB ports, in/out audio in a single port, and, yeah, room for two of those SSD sticks (not standard size drives) in the 15" and 17" models.
Starts with 4GB of RAM, 8 and 16GB BTO.
It's possible, and with Apple, anything can happen. But I doubt they'll go that way.
The MacBook Air cuts corners. Even Apple realise that, although they managed to pull off cuting corners without hurting sales. (Quite the contrary!)
But for a Pro laptop (which is still a very popular product), that just isn't acceptable.
Optical drives are gone, that's pretty much a given. Form factor will be thinner, whether tapered or not remains to be seen. But there will probably be a healthy complement of ports: USB, Thunderbolt, audio, of course, but also: Ethernet is required for business users that shun wireless networking, FireWire 800 is widely used in pro audio and video markets and Thunderbolt adapters are too slow to market to offer a viable replacement. I hold out hope for the ExpressCard slot on the 17", but mostly because I have an ExpressCard 3G modem. I fear that'll be out, even though there should be plenty of room for it.
Internally, removing the optical drive will make room for more design freedom. Perhaps the cooling design can be improved so the Pro's can operate on a single fan. mSATA SSD card for the system drive, and a 2.5" drive bay (perhaps 1.8" on a 13" model or even across the board) for secondary SSD or HDD storage. SO-DIMM memory, slightly larger battery.
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Seriously, are you pulling my chain? Did you not read:I did forget to add that it will have more ports than the MBA.
I can also see the pros getting the high resolution screens first. Mainly because they will have the graphics chops to drive them well. It is still a mystery with respect to Ivy Bridges performance driving such screens, so I'm not sure if the AIRS will transition to high resolution screens right away.
Did the MBP lose it's Pro-ness or get better when it followed the original MBA case design? I think it got a lot better. It got thinner and sturdier yet it didn't lose andy performance in the process so why do you think following the tapered design and losing the antiquated optical drive means that it has to lose the discrete graphics or any other silly thing that makes the MBA an ultraportable notebook?
Beyond that Apple is doing really well in the Notebook portable space these days. They will be careful to avoid screwing that up. That won't stop them from innovating of course but it will cause them to make sure that a new MBP release keeps the performance component of the line up available. Contrary to the opinions of many notebooks still lag performance wise in a number of aspects, the market has yet to meet the needs of every user. Thus I can easily see Apple offering both a 15" AIR and a MBP. It is all about different strokes for different folks.
I expect that the next MacBook Pro will have most or all of these features which the MacBook Air does not have:
- 25 to 35W CPUs
- discreet graphics
- two (rather than one) SSD slots
- Ethernet port
- Full-speed Thunderbolt port
- HiDPI display
- HD webcam
- 10 hour battery
- 8GB RAM BTO option
See? *sigh* ?I'm starting to think that both names might be dead. Seriously. It gives them a LOT of leeway to ignore "pro" features.
One product: MacBook.
Four sizes: 11", 13", 15", 17".
No discrete graphics, no Ethernet port, two Thunderbolt ports, two USB ports, in/out audio in a single port, and, yeah, room for two of those SSD sticks (not standard size drives) in the 15" and 17" models.
Starts with 4GB of RAM, 8 and 16GB BTO.
Just as a note regarding the potential redesigns, and as an avid Apple equipment owner, there are some concerns I have.
Everybody has concerns. My hope here is that Apple sees a clear line between the AIR like machines and the MBP.
Firstly, removing the optical drive does have limitations and problems, and "Cloud" doesn't solve them.
The could doesn't solve half the issues people think it solves. When ever I see people offering it up as a storage solution I have to cringe a bit.
Our local ISP, the incumbent cable company is starting to put data transfer caps on connections on a monthly basis that seem quite low, especially if one's software and media are now distributed solely via said connection.
I really don't worry about caps for software installations. Seriously I just drive down to the local library, especially if it is a rather large install. For business that won't work but I just see software installs as a non issue.
On the other hand relying on any sort of network for access to critical media, data or other files is just stupid. Even at work, at a relatively large company, the network can be very congested and at times unusable.
Beyond that, I have had to install Final Cut Studio a few times (at a previous employer). Let's just say that the full install, with stock loops and such is NOT something I'd care to wait to download or have count against my monthly tally.
Unreasonable data caps do suck. I'm not sure what can be done about that. Right now it is the only way to deal with network congestion in a non discriminatory way.
Secondly, the company I work for now manufactures networking equipment. The removal of a native Ethernet port means no new equipment for my almost-entirely Mac shop.
For a MBP it would be stupidity beyond belief. I work in another industry and find that a network port is more important than any other port on my MBP. This would be automation in industrial settings. Between the lack of a ethernet port and room for secondary storage these are the big reasons I haven't gone the AIR route.
Dongles and adapters, while adding measures of latency and even errors in some situations, are also a poor design. USB dongles are even worse; relying on the CPU and active backend to handle the most basic of tasks, rather than a smarter chip that interfaces on the normal accessory-device bus.
The big issue that I have observed with USB is the issue of reliability. In that regards USB can't be relied upon for network use. In fact it is pretty much terrible for RS232 use. In automation circles RS232(or various other serial flavors) and ethernet are still the biggest interface standard going, if you can't drive them reliably then your goose is cooked.
We see this effect in USB hard drives (crap most often) versus the superior (if, sadly, only technologically) FireWire and ostensibly ThunderBolt (haven't tested TB yet myself). Having a TB adapter would be more palatable, but there are a NUMBER of issues that having an adapter changing from one data format to another, before going through another translation to get to the heart of the machine is problematic. One of the key benefits when I was able to chuck the crap Dell laptop that I had for a 17" MBP was that my Gigabit Ethernet actually could do a gigabit's worth of throughput. The Dell's crapped out around 430mbit.
Apple does an excellent job with their ethernet interface, I would suspect that it is best in the class. Again I see indications that people really don't understand the importance of a well done ethernet interface, probably because they have never used one.
To me, were I imagining an ideal device
1) Drop ODD ONLY if a proper TB or (God Forbid) USB drive could be used to view a movie. Many USB CD drives I've used on my home theater Mac Mini work great for data but won't show a DVD movie
Given a choice between a SSD & HD combo and no optical and an optical without the potential of a combo I would go for the SSD & HD combo without pause. The reason is pretty simple, right now I carry an external drive with me where ever I go, but I seldom use the internal.
I agree with the issue with regards to the playing of movies but honestly I didn't know that was such an issue. In any event a TB based dock would take care of that issue I would imagine.
2) GigE and FireWire should stay. Or, TB can replace FireWire if TB can be used in TDD mode and (ideally) a TB <-> FireWire adapter can be had. As the IT guy, Target Mode has saved many a system from HDD death.
GigE has to stay, you will get no argument there.
I've never made extensive use of Firewire. I can see TB gaining far greater acceptance than Firewire ever did. In that regards I'd like to see it implemented as two ports on future MBP's. That is a bit of gamble but I just see TB going much farther than Firewire ever did.
3) Why SSD or Spinning drive only? Hybrid SSD + Spinning drive. 1TB + 128GB SSD in 9mm thick drive would give the best of both worlds. Perhaps a bit of smarts to let it know what to store and where... But, as a person who keeps over 500GB worth of virtual machines on my laptop (ready for a number of testing scenarios), going to a small SSD would be killer for me.
That would be the most economical choice right now. The combo would give us the best performance at the least cost for bulk storage.
4) Dear God, please let us few who like it still have an option at least of a matte screen. I snagged a 17", 2.8GHz with a matte screen and thank my lucky stars every time I have to work on a glossy or even look to my secondary screen (A 27" Core i7 Quad iMac via mDP) that I don't have to do that every day.
After owning one I'm not a big fan of matte screens at all. Implemented on a high-resolution screen they would be a joke.
5) WiFi, 802.11ac as an addition 802.11n backstopping with a 3x3 or 4x4 diversity antenna system would pair really well with a AirPort Pro or TimeCapsule Pro. Hint hint. More antennas also allows for the beamforming and steering portions of multi-diversity WiFi systems to deliver data more reliably.
I'm all for better Wifi, but where does one put al of those antennas?
6) Whole Screen AirPlay out. Neat feature and could easily help to eliminate problems with projectors and dongles and could sell the hell our of current AppleTV devices, and be a nice play for a home Apple television. Not a big fan of congesting the WiFi airwaves anymore than they are, but properly done, it could be.
Apple is a little behind on implementing this tech on the Macs. This is mostly a software issue right now though.
7) Retina display. Lofty but who wouldn't want a 4k display. Not to mention, I'd get a second one and probably start looking for ways to drive it in a home made projector.
This would probably be more useful than on an iPad. So looking forward to it.
8) Get rid of third USB port on laptop. Hell, maybe even second too.
No! No. no. As much as i hate USB for its reliability issues I use two ports every day and find my self wishing I had another on my MBP.
I've used two at a time max on my 17" MBP. I'm sure there are some using all three at once, but really, rare is the set of USB keys and USB cords that can all fit at the same time. Unpowered USB hub would work, and since timing/latency critical anything should never go over USB, it wouldn't be terrible for USB as a whole.
Actually it would suck royally. I have a HD disk connected all the time to my MBP plus my iOS device intermittently, USB storage sticks of various flavors and other assorted dongles.
9) Cellular/GPS/LTE optional. I probably wouldn't get it myself, but I know some ballyhoo over it. Personally, Hotspot sharing over the iPhone works great for me...
Interesting as at one time I was really hoping for that feature to be built into the notebooks. These days Id rather see them offer an expansion bay / port, that could be sued for multiple purposes. Why an expansion port instead of USB, mainly for the speed and reliability of PCI-Express. Granted that speed isn't needed for LTE but it could be put to use for other options.
As to some of the other requests:
Ethernet is still needed, it is one of the best features of the MBP.
Combo audio ports suck! Such ports might work for AIR users but can be a real negative for flexibility.
Two TB ports I agree with. I'd like to see Firewire replaced by one of those.
Frankly I'd like to see three USB ports.
As to SSD storage two wouldn't be too bad but I suspect that Apple will likely go with an industry standard here of some sort. Various corporations are working on a new SSD card format so I wouldn't be surprised if Apple was involved.
RAM needs to be on standard mobile cards supporting the latest standards. No special purpose hardware for the MBPs!
See? *sigh* ?I'm starting to think that both names might be dead. Seriously. It gives them a LOT of leeway to ignore "pro" features.
One product: MacBook.
Four sizes: 11", 13", 15", 17".
No discrete graphics, no Ethernet port, two Thunderbolt ports, two USB ports, in/out audio in a single port, and, yeah, room for two of those SSD sticks (not standard size drives) in the 15" and 17" models.
Starts with 4GB of RAM, 8 and 16GB BTO.
After owning one I'm not a big fan of matte screens at all. Implemented on a high-resolution screen they would be a joke.
They're still immensely helpful for a lot of people. What you're seeing (and hating) is the use of cheap matte coatings to cut costs. The problem is that margins on lcd panels aren't that great so it tends to invite such measures.
Really, if there is anything in a MBP that can keep the unit useful for a long time it is a dGPU. ?so I have to ask who would want such a notebook to replace their MBP?
Want? Likely no one. But again, this isn't a MacBook Pro anymore. It's just one big MacBook family.
Don't be surprised if they pull something like that.
Ethernet is still needed, it is one of the best features of the MBP.
Even with 802.11ac?
Combo audio ports suck! Such ports might work for AIR users but can be a real negative for flexibility.
Mhmm.
Two TB ports I agree with. I'd like to see Firewire replaced by one of those.
I was going to say three, but my mental image ran out of logic board space.
Frankly I'd like to see three USB ports.
Same with this. I wanted at least two USB and couldn't shoehorn in a third alongside two Thunderbolt ports.
As to SSD storage two wouldn't be too bad but I suspect that Apple will likely go with an industry standard here of some sort.
Isn't the MacBook Air's stick a standard connector?
RAM needs to be on standard mobile cards supporting the latest standards. No special purpose hardware for the MBPs!
I? would hope the RAM at least is still user-upgradable on the 15" and 17" models.
I'm back in pessimist mode here. Killing the ODD for good will make Apple go Air-crazy with the MacBook Pro family. They'll upgrade a lot at once (extra Thunderbolt, 802.11ac, etc.), but there will be tradeoffs that people more familiar with traditional laptops just won't like at all.
But that's to be expected. Apple will be creating the very first transtops should the MacBook family get a redesign next update. "Transtops" being the name I'm using for computers between the old style laptop (a bunch of different ports, an optical drive, and what have you) and the fully touchscreen designs that we'll see around the end of the decade.
In the end I'm still of the opinion that traditional matte displays adversely affect quality. I compare my 2008 MBP matte screen to my iPad 1 and the iPad is a far better screen for viewing quality.
They're still immensely helpful for a lot of people. What you're seeing (and hating) is the use of cheap matte coatings to cut costs. The problem is that margins on lcd panels aren't that great so it tends to invite such measures.
Ethernet is still needed, it is one of the best features of the MBP.
Even with 802.11ac?
Sure. Ethernet is faster and more secure.
On top of that 802.11ac has barely even made a mark with shipping products. That said, that standards body is much better than for 802.11n so it's completion and adoption should happen much faster. That means I won't be surprised if the next MBPs offer it. That does meas we'll also need new AirPort routers either at or before their launch (hopefully running iOS and with some server-esque features)
That said, i never use my ethernet port. I probably never will again but that doesn't mean i don't think it's needed. The only place I think it can fit without altering the port size or making some very stupid extended port lip like you see in some thin notebooks is on the back right side which i think means Apple probably can't go past 0.90" (22.86mm), estimation, for the thickest part of the machine.
Want? Likely no one. But again, this isn't a MacBook Pro anymore. It's just one big MacBook family.
Which would be foolish considering how well Apples laptops are selling. I see both a 15" AIR and a new MBP coming.
Don't be surprised if they pull something like that.
Apple has done stupid things in the past so anything is possible. In this case I just don't see it happening. The reality is the market for a15" AIR is entirely different from that for a 15" MBP. More so I want a far more versatile and powerful MBP.
Even with 802.11ac?
In many cases you just don't have a choice.
Mhmm.
I was going to say three, but my mental image ran out of logic board space.
Remember loosing the optical leads to much more access to the side of the machine.
The other factor is the power budget. Each TB and USB port needs a allocation from the machines power budget. I believe that would be ten watts for each TB port, plus whatever standard each USB port supports.
Same with this. I wanted at least two USB and couldn't shoehorn in a third alongside two Thunderbolt ports.
I don't see a problem on a 15" MBP.
Isn't the MacBook Air's stick a standard connector?
Not from what I understand.
I? would hope the RAM at least is still user-upgradable on the 15" and 17" models.
Yes a requirement for a Pro computer.
I'm back in pessimist mode here. Killing the ODD for good will make Apple go Air-crazy with the MacBook Pro family. They'll upgrade a lot at once (extra Thunderbolt, 802.11ac, etc.), but there will be tradeoffs that people more familiar with traditional laptops just won't like at all.
You are assuming that they would drop far to many pro features or not add significant new capabilities. I really don't understand this idea that Apple can't support two dramatically different laptop lines. From my perspective it is as easy as pie, Apple pie that is! 😱
But that's to be expected. Apple will be creating the very first transtops should the MacBook family get a redesign next update. "Transtops" being the name I'm using for computers between the old style laptop (a bunch of different ports, an optical drive, and what have you) and the fully touchscreen designs that we'll see around the end of the decade.
I see no reason for Apple to pursue the touch screens. I actually see a move to an on board Siri like IA before the end of the decade. Something that handles as much as possible on board before going to the web. It is interesting that Apple calls Siri beta software, I suspect it is a feature that will morph into something Star Trek like.
Isn't the MacBook Air's [SD card] a standard connector?
Not from what I understand..
It is physically the same as PCI Express Mini Card but electrically incompatible. So far OWC makes cards that work in the MBA. I'm not sure if that is licensed by Apple or if it's the exact spec created by the Serial ATA International Organization in 2009.
RAM needs to be on standard mobile cards supporting the latest standards. No special purpose hardware for the MBPs!
Going forward, all Apple laptop RAM will be fixed on the motherboard, just like with the MacBook Air. Apple have been leaving too much money on the table with people buying the minimum RAM configuration and then loading up with third party RAM.
Remember loosing the optical leads to much more access to the side of the machine.
I just immediately assigned that space to battery, because I figured Apple would do that as well.
You are assuming that they would drop far to many pro features or not add significant new capabilities. I really don't understand this idea that Apple can't support two dramatically different laptop lines. From my perspective it is as easy as pie, Apple pie that is! 😱
I'm not saying they can't; just saying that given the rumor, it doesn't appear as if they want to.
Could they still be selling a MacBook, MacBook Air, and MacBook Pro? Sure. But they already trimmed one out?
I see no reason for Apple to pursue the touch screens.
OS XI will be multitouch. And it won't run on "laptops" like we understand them now.
It's gonna be the same level of change as going from the Altair to the Apple ][ or the Apple ][ to the Macintosh. That certainly doesn't preclude the inclusion of Siri.
1. Will Apple's new machines permit users to autonomously set the size of system typefaces? I'm sitting here at my Air and swear the type is no more than 4 points large, which means I have to put on my reading glasses and turn up the brightness to max.
2. For such great hardware, why saddle us with trash software like Lion and Mountain Lion (which, from what I've read here, merely exacerbates the things that Mac computer users most dislike about iOS applied to anything other than mobile devices? Why not take this opportunity to come up with something truly novel and exciting, on the order of OS 9 or Snow Leopard when they were introduced?
Fix those, this longtime user is once again a happy camper. Then bring on the new MacBook Pros!
1. Will Apple's new machines permit users to autonomously set the size of system typefaces? I'm sitting here at my Air and swear the type is no more than 4 points large, which means I have to put on my reading glasses and turn up the brightness to max.
HiDPI mode? It's already in OS X, so I'd imagine so.
2. For such great hardware, why saddle us with trash software like Lion and Mountain Lion
Stopped reading right there.
Come off it.
HiDPI mode? It's already in OS X, so I'd imagine so.
Stopped reading right there.
Come off it.
1. How does one invoke HiDPI? I need to see this for myself. No Air owner I know has detected a way to enlarge system type, only screen type -- and then only awkwardly, with multiple commands often for a single browser page, the entire barrage having to be repeated for each subsequent page. If that's what you mean, no, it's not a solution.
2. You have to be kidding if you think these "100-new feature!" versions of Mac OSX made more compatible with iOS do more than (a) offer more developer-dictated futzing in return for diminished real user control and (b) make users more dependent on Apple Inc. for basic services, free for now but obviously just waiting to be monetized -- once the customers are path-determined not to change vendors -- and make third-party developed applications and content less accessible or more expensive via Apple Store/iTunes?
Why with such revolutionary hardware at hand -- thank you, Apple, it's much appreciated, seriously -- would Apple saddle us and suboptimize its new machines' performance with a version of a last-generation OS gummed up with iOS behavioral models? Apple's Hardware and Software divisions should talk to one another more often, and resist Marketing's pleas that their real audience should be digital device users. Yes, it's market logic. But maybe Apple will benefit more in the long run by following insanely-great-computing logic.
Going forward, all Apple laptop RAM will be fixed on the motherboard, just like with the MacBook Air. Apple have been leaving too much money on the table with people buying the minimum RAM configuration and then loading up with third party RAM.
And there is exactly why Apple should leave RAM upgradees to the purchaser. Having a completely closed machine with no user access to RAM or battery makes for a much more expensive and frustrating user upgrade path. Not a good thing.
See? *sigh* ?I'm starting to think that both names might be dead. Seriously. It gives them a LOT of leeway to ignore "pro" features.
One product: MacBook.
Four sizes: 11", 13", 15", 17".
No discrete graphics, no Ethernet port, two Thunderbolt ports, two USB ports, in/out audio in a single port, and, yeah, room for two of those SSD sticks (not standard size drives) in the 15" and 17" models.
Starts with 4GB of RAM, 8 and 16GB BTO.
It's possible, and with Apple, anything can happen. But I doubt they'll go that way.
The MacBook Air cuts corners. Even Apple realise that, although they managed to pull off cuting corners without hurting sales. (Quite the contrary!)
But for a Pro laptop (which is still a very popular product), that just isn't acceptable.
Optical drives are gone, that's pretty much a given. Form factor will be thinner, whether tapered or not remains to be seen. But there will probably be a healthy complement of ports: USB, Thunderbolt, audio, of course, but also: Ethernet is required for business users that shun wireless networking, FireWire 800 is widely used in pro audio and video markets and Thunderbolt adapters are too slow to market to offer a viable replacement. I hold out hope for the ExpressCard slot on the 17", but mostly because I have an ExpressCard 3G modem. I fear that'll be out, even though there should be plenty of room for it.
Internally, removing the optical drive will make room for more design freedom. Perhaps the cooling design can be improved so the Pro's can operate on a single fan. mSATA SSD card for the system drive, and a 2.5" drive bay (perhaps 1.8" on a 13" model or even across the board) for secondary SSD or HDD storage. SO-DIMM memory, slightly larger battery.
That's my prediction.
.tsooJ
The MacBook Air cuts corners.
In what way?