Apple partner Foxconn raises Chinese worker wages as much as 25%

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Comments

  • Reply 81 of 118
    solipsismxsolipsismx Posts: 19,566member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by LuxoM3 View Post


    Since Apple makes about $400 gross profit per iPhone...

    Why not bring those jobs back to the USA?





    Yes yes, I know - tech, manufacturing, etc.

    But think about it...



    We put jobs in China because corp profit margins were thin, so they needed cheaper labor and massive volume to eek a profit.



    Well guess what... Apple has high profit margins, high volumes... so can they afford a little more in labor costs? Would adding $1 to every iPhone be worth having a guy in the USA build it?



    Just an idea...



    First of all, your gross profit number if inaccurate. Secondly, it would be impossible to have everything in the iPhone be made in the US. Third, all you're really talking about is the finally construction of the device with various components which means you haven't even understood the issue. Finally, if Apple were to bring the entire iPhone production to the US the cost would be well above the $400 you mention so instead of Apple, a US company, paying taxes on their profit and selling good to US citizens that also pay taxes you end up with Apple losing money and US citizen buying products from vendors in China, Korea, etc. because the iPhone is no longer desirable at an excessive price. MNO subsidizes can only do so much. Do you really Apple, the US, US citizens, and the Chinese people that much?
  • Reply 82 of 118
    slurpyslurpy Posts: 5,328member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by LuxoM3 View Post


    Since Apple makes about $400 gross profit per iPhone...

    Why not bring those jobs back to the USA?





    Yes yes, I know - tech, manufacturing, etc.

    But think about it...



    We put jobs in China because corp profit margins were thin, so they needed cheaper labor and massive volume to eek a profit.



    Well guess what... Apple has high profit margins, high volumes... so can they afford a little more in labor costs? Would adding $1 to every iPhone be worth having a guy in the USA build it?



    Just an idea...



    I'm not sure which # that you pulled out of your ass is more ridiculous- the $400 gross profit per phone figure, or the +$1 if Apple's manufacturing was magically moved to the US figure. Do you have sources for these numbers? Nevermind, it's easier to pull stuff out of your ass and be as sensational as possible, instead of trying to ascertain real numbers which would lead to the conclusion that your proposition is not as easy as you make it seem. $1 extra per phone.. Really now? You can't possibly be that grotesquely ignorant, so I'll chalk it up to purposeful dishonesty. Either way, maybe these quotes from the recent NYT article will give you a bit of insight:

    Quote:

    “The entire supply chain is in China now,” said another former high-ranking Apple executive. “You need a thousand rubber gaskets? That’s the factory next door. You need a million screws? That factory is a block away. You need that screw made a little bit different? It will take three hours.”



    Quote:

    Foxconn Technology has dozens of facilities in Asia and Eastern Europe, and in Mexico and Brazil, and it assembles an estimated 40 percent of the world’s consumer electronics for customers like Amazon, Dell, Hewlett-Packard, Motorola, Nintendo, Nokia, Samsung and Sony.



    “They could hire 3,000 people overnight,” said Jennifer Rigoni, who was Apple’s worldwide supply demand manager until 2010, but declined to discuss specifics of her work. “What U.S. plant can find 3,000 people overnight and convince them to live in dorms?”



    Quote:

    Another critical advantage for Apple was that China provided engineers at a scale the United States could not match. Apple’s executives had estimated that about 8,700 industrial engineers were needed to oversee and guide the 200,000 assembly-line workers eventually involved in manufacturing iPhones. The company’s analysts had forecast it would take as long as nine months to find that many qualified engineers in the United States.



    In China, it took 15 days.



    NYT estimates building in the US would add $65 expense to each phone. And then..



    Quote:

    But such calculations are, in many respects, meaningless because building the iPhone in the United States would demand much more than hiring Americans — it would require transforming the national and global economies. Apple executives believe there simply aren’t enough American workers with the skills the company needs or factories with sufficient speed and flexibility. Other companies that work with Apple, like Corning, also say they must go abroad.



    The complexities, costs, logistics, and labour pool issues of manufacturing in the US, for a company like Apple needs such an unprecedented massive level of scale to satisfy it's products unmatched demand, simply makes the proposition impossible for now. This isn't something you can simply throw money at to solve.
  • Reply 83 of 118
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 13,377member
    Congress doesn't need to do anything about China, this is basic economics in action. When your source of qualified workers starts to dry up you have to attract workers from other employers. Thus the increase in wages. Your point of view is basically non-sense, China is no longer a low cost labor supplier.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by rednival View Post


    It is about time.



    Since our Congress won't do anything about the Chinese it is good to see Apple finally taking a stand and putting some screws to Foxconn, even if it is in the face of public scrutiny. I guess CNN and New York Time deserve credit for bringing this to the public's attention.



    CNN and the New York Times did nothing in this regard, wages have been increasing rapidly in China in the last few years. All I see here is a retention and recruitment move by Foxconn.

    Quote:

    And by the way, Apple knew. Avoiding the truth when you wouldn't like it is the same as knowing the truth and doing nothing about it, if you ask me.



    Get a grip guy, Apple is in China for the same reason everybody else is, low wages and a concentrated infra structure. That move to China has effective raised the standard of living for thousands of workers. Could it be better in China, certainly but it could also be better in many factories in the USA. The focus on China is misplaced as workers everywhere can be exploited. Explotation Though isn't a problem with Foxconn.
  • Reply 84 of 118
    realisticrealistic Posts: 1,154member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by rednival View Post


    It is about time.



    Since our Congress won't do anything about the Chinese it is good to see Apple finally taking a stand and putting some screws to Foxconn, even if it is in the face of public scrutiny. I guess CNN and New York Time deserve credit for bringing this to the public's attention.



    And by the way, Apple knew. Avoiding the truth when you wouldn't like it is the same as knowing the truth and doing nothing about it, if you ask me.



    Are you nuts?
  • Reply 85 of 118
    radarradar Posts: 271member
    This is absolutely preposterous I tell you!



    If these ruddy lefties keep increasing wages to the point where greedy ingrate workers can actually raise a family and have enough food on the table, why, poor companies like Foxconn and Apple will have "no choice" but to shift these factory jobs overseas to countries where people are still willing to work for a living without complaining - to countries like the United States, for example
  • Reply 86 of 118
    hill60hill60 Posts: 6,992member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by rednival View Post


    It is about time.



    Since our Congress won't do anything about the Chinese it is good to see Apple finally taking a stand and putting some screws to Foxconn, even if it is in the face of public scrutiny. I guess CNN and New York Time deserve credit for bringing this to the public's attention.



    And by the way, Apple knew. Avoiding the truth when you wouldn't like it is the same as knowing the truth and doing nothing about it, if you ask me.



    I think I'll ask the Australian government to step in to ensure the workers who made the stuff I buy at Costco have access to decent medical care, paid for by the government, like we do here.



    I heard that the slave labourers in American factories can lose everything if they get sick and that child labour is used in fast food stores.



    This is a disgusting abuse of worker rights.



    I'll carefully look at labels to make sure I don't buy US made stuff unless I am assured that the workers have medical cover, maybe American companies should be scrutinised to ensure that they provide this basic human need.



    Micheal Moore deserves credit for bringing this to the world's attention.



    See, it's all relative.
  • Reply 87 of 118
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 13,377member
    First off Foxconn has a relationship with many companies, they would not raise wages at the request of any of those companies. Wages are a competitive issue. The general labor rate has been increasing rapidly in China to the point that many low end businesses have actually left China. This move by Foxconn is simply an effort to attract and retain the work force they need to support their business. A business that Apple plays a partial role in.



    It really amazes me how little people actually know about what is happening in China. Gone are the days when it was the cheapest place on the planet for labor or a supplier of skilled labor. There is real competition now for quality work forces.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Ireland View Post


    Once again Apple changes things. I'm serious here. They could have ignored this and those iDevices would still sell, their policies and determination in this area is changing how Chinese manufacturing works, that's so small feat. I'm glad they didn't simply throw money at the problem either, because ultimately it's not Apple's fault China is the way it is.



  • Reply 88 of 118
    MacProMacPro Posts: 19,426member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by beakernx01 View Post


    Let's see how many of the news outlets that jumped all over Apple for practices that are the same or, more often are much worse at other manufacturers working for Dell, IBM, Acer, Toshiba, Samsung, M$, etc. rush to report this.



    They are going to be in but of a pickle, way thinner margins than Apple but now they are also going to have to raise prices as the spot light moves from Apple to these other US firms.
  • Reply 89 of 118
    This 25% increase is just in line with the general increase in wages in China.
  • Reply 90 of 118
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Ireland View Post


    The US Congress has no business telling China how much they should or shouldn't pay their workers. It's a moral issue, not a political one, and it's certainly not one more excuse for the US to police the world. Do yourself a favour and quit reading the NYT and watching CNN. It'll clear your head out.



    I agree with everything you said, wholeheartedly.
  • Reply 91 of 118
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


    This was done because of all the hard work and dedication of the people who signed their names on Internet petitions.



    Pat yourselves on the backs, folks; Apple would never have done this without you.



    Three Stooges-esque "Why I oughtta" wind up as I say this.



  • Reply 92 of 118
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by hill60 View Post


    I think I'll ask the Australian government to step in to ensure the workers who made the stuff I buy at Costco have access to decent medical care, paid for by the government, like we do here.



    I heard that the slave labourers in American factories can lose everything if they get sick.



    This is a disgusting abuse of worker rights.



    I'll carefully look at labels to make sure I don't buy US made stuff unless I am assured that the workers have medical cover, maybe American companies should be scrutinised to ensure that they provide this basic human need.



    See, it's all relative.



    OK, first off, I am not talking about US Congress ensuring that Chinese workers get paid a fair wage. I apologize for not making myself more clear.



    I am talking about the growing concern in our country that China's practice of manipulating its currency keeps their wages and prices artificially low. This in turn does harm to the US (and Australia). If wages and prices are not allowed to increase as they naturally should, the whole argument for free-trade and the whole reason we have trade agreements is null and void. It is basic economics.



    So I am saying that China isn't holding up their end of the bargain and our Congress is allowing China to violate those terms.



    If Australia wanted to repeal their trade agreements with the US until we have socialized medicine, have at it. But as far as I know, we don't have an agreement with Australia promising government healthcare to all our citizens, so we haven't broken any agreement.



    For the record: if we were to sign an agreement with China contingent on them promising a minimum wage to their citizens, I would oppose that and consider it overreaching.
  • Reply 93 of 118
    And by the way, I never knew until now how much anti-American sentiment exists on these forums. A lot is being read into my comments that I never said because you are assuming:
    1. I believe we should take military action against China

    2. I believe Congress can make decisions for the Chinese government



    EDIT

    Actually there is a 3rd: I didn't know how my words could be taken so I should have made myself more clear...

    /EDIT




    I am not sure if your bias is based on what you believe Americans think or what you've actually heard Americans say. I have a wife who grew up in a foreign country, so I would not be surprised at anything that an American has said to you.



    I just want to say that, for the record, not all Americans are war mongering imperialists (but enough are it seems that way). That said, I believe our agreements with other countries should be followed or we should repeal them. It you disagree with me over that, so be it.
  • Reply 94 of 118
    hill60hill60 Posts: 6,992member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by rednival View Post


    OK, first off, I am not talking about US Congress ensuring that Chinese workers get paid a fair wage. I apologize for not making myself more clear.



    I am talking about the growing concern in our country that China's practice of manipulating its currency keeps their wages and prices artificially low. This in turn does harm to the US (and Australia). If wages and prices are not allowed to increase as they naturally should, the whole argument for free-trade and the whole reason we have trade agreements is null and void. It is basic economics.



    So I am saying that China isn't holding up their end of the bargain and our Congress is allowing China to violate those terms.



    If Australia wanted to repeal their trade agreements with the US until we have socialized medicine, have at it. But as far as I know, we don't have an agreement with Australia promising government healthcare to all our citizens, so we haven't broken any agreement.



    For the record: if we were to sign an agreement with China contingent on them promising a minimum wage to their citizens, I would oppose that and consider it overreaching.



    I've a good mind to start an online petition and deliver it to Costco, that will force the US to improve conditions for American workers.



    How can you Americans have jobs that don't pay enough to afford housing?



    How is it that fifteen year old child labourers can serve in your fast food stores?



    P.S. I am being sarcastic with an arrow aimed squarely at the do gooders who, pumped up by bogus media reports think that their petty actions had anything to do with this.



    Let me reiterate, IT'S ALL RELATIVE, different countries have different standards.



    PPS keep buying stuff made in Chinese factories, Australia does quite well out of selling them rocks.
  • Reply 95 of 118
    realisticrealistic Posts: 1,154member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by LuxoM3 View Post


    Since Apple makes about $400 gross profit per iPhone...

    Why not bring those jobs back to the USA?





    Yes yes, I know - tech, manufacturing, etc.

    But think about it...



    We put jobs in China because corp profit margins were thin, so they needed cheaper labor and massive volume to eek a profit.



    Well guess what... Apple has high profit margins, high volumes... so can they afford a little more in labor costs? Would adding $1 to every iPhone be worth having a guy in the USA build it?



    Just an idea...



    Sure $1 more would be well worth it but you are a fool if you think that would be the difference in cost between an iPhone made in China and one made in the USA.
  • Reply 96 of 118
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by hill60 View Post


    P.S. I am being sarcastic with an arrow aimed squarely at the do gooders who, pumped up by bogus media reports think that their petty actions had anything to do with this.



    I agree with you there. Too many people value themselves and their opinions far to much. Don't think for a moment I don't value your perspective. I just enjoy a good debate.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by hill60 View Post


    Let me reiterate, IT'S ALL RELATIVE, different countries have different standards.



    PPS keep buying stuff made in Chinese factories, Australia does quite well out of selling them rocks.



    I accept that countries have different cultures and standards and I am glad you feel Australia is doing well. But to your point, many in the US feel that the Chinese are not playing fair on the field of the world economy, nor do we feel the US economy is doing so well.



    Maybe you feel we have unrealistic expectations or too high of standards, but a wise man once told me, "different countries have different standards".
  • Reply 97 of 118
    malaxmalax Posts: 1,598member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


    This was done because of all the hard work and dedication of the people who signed their names on Internet petitions.



    Pat yourselves on the backs, folks; Apple would never have done this without you.



    Three Stooges-esque "Why I oughtta" wind up as I say this.



    LOL. Whew, I'm sure clicking "like" on some online petition was really "hard work." I hope they didn't pull a muscle or something.
  • Reply 98 of 118
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Realistic View Post


    Sure $1 more would be well worth it but you are a fool if you think that would be the difference in cost between an iPhone made in China and one made in the USA.



    Quit being SO realistic...oh wait...nevermind.
  • Reply 99 of 118
    addaboxaddabox Posts: 12,664member
    I wonder if anyone calling for Apple to manufacture their goods in the US is really grasping the scope of operations in China?



    What you're calling for is for Apple to build a Detroit from scratch, in a location well served by bulk transit, figure out a way to keep hundreds of thousands of workers housed and in the vicinity, figure out a way to get tens of thousands of engineers and supervisorial positions filled, probably meaning embarking on a massively ambitious training program (which means also creating some kind of Apple college with a campus the size of many state schools), either establish extremely long supply chains for a host of parts or simply build up another city's worth of suppliers that are entirely Apple owned and operated (with and concomitant sinking of enormous capital costs that would probably empty Apple's famously large cash hoards) and then go to market with products that are significantly more expensive than the competition.



    When you say that "Apple can certainly afford it" what you're saying is that they should spend every cent they have to create a system that insures they wouldn't be able to afford much of anything ever again.



    Just because Apple is extremely profitable it doesn't therefore make sense that we should call on them to single-handedly remake a significant chunk of the American economy and undo 50 years of globalization and loss of manufacturing jobs. It's like expecting someone to regrow a rainforest in a desert that used to be a tropical region before weather patterns shifted (and which of course everyone remembers fondly): it can be done, but the cost of replacing all of the interconnections with an environment that doesn't exist is prohibitive, and amounts to an enormous, self-sufficient bubble world that will require fantastically expensive life-support forever.
  • Reply 100 of 118
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post


    Except all they do is raise prices for domestic customers of foreign products.



    Bad move.



    I never said that they were a good move.
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