Apple partner Foxconn raises Chinese worker wages as much as 25%

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Comments

  • Reply 101 of 118
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by addabox View Post


    I wonder if anyone calling for Apple to manufacture their goods in the US is really grasping the scope of operations in China?



    What you're calling for is for Apple to build a Detroit from scratch, in a location well served by bulk transit, figure out a way to keep hundreds of thousands of workers housed and in the vicinity, figure out a way to get tens of thousands of engineers and supervisorial positions filled, probably meaning embarking on a massively ambitious training program (which means also creating some kind of Apple college with a campus the size of many state schools), either establish extremely long supply chains for a host of parts or simply build up another city's worth of suppliers that are entirely Apple owned and operated (with and concomitant sinking of enormous capital costs that would probably empty Apple's famously large cash hoards) and then go to market with products that are significantly more expensive than the competition.



    When you say that "Apple can certainly afford it" what you're saying is that they should spend every cent they have to create a system that insures they wouldn't be able to afford much of anything ever again.



    Just because Apple is extremely profitable it doesn't therefore make sense that we should call on them to single-handedly remake a significant chunk of the American economy and undo 50 years of globalization and loss of manufacturing jobs. It's like expecting someone to regrow a rainforest in a desert that used to be a tropical region before weather patterns shifted (and which of course everyone remembers fondly): it can be done, but the cost of replacing all of the interconnections with an environment that doesn't exist is prohibitive, and amounts to an enormous, self-sufficient bubble world that will require fantastically expensive life-support forever.



    This is, in large part, a replay of the Nike situation in 2000 spurred on by Naomi Klein and her book No Logo. Nike also refuted claims of sweat shops, etc., and pointed out where Klein was exaggerating the situation. In the end, Nike did change its policies, along with various other companies in the garment industry.



    All to say, while I agree that this spotlight on Apple is not completely fair and arguably unreasonable, unreasonable tactics are often part and parcel of evolution in the world.
  • Reply 102 of 118
    galbigalbi Posts: 968member
    All this controversy stemming from Foxconn would not have happened if Apple wasn't pushing its suppliers to cut costs at all cost (pun intended).



    From the articles I've read about the top OEM suppliers to Apple, they mention that they hardly make any profits fulfilling Apple extreme request to meet its cost estimates.



    Therefore, in order to keep the business account viable, the OEM's go to extreme measures to break a profit, disregarding work condition laws and standards while causing



    many deaths either by accidents or voluntary suicides.



    The culprit of the problem: Apple







    People who support Apple's current business practices should be ashamed of being their fans.



    If they really are Apple fans, they should raise these types of issues to get them fixed.



    Become a fan of a company who supports ethical business practices and not a company that is hell bent on turning a profit at all cost.



    You all have the power to change the outlook of a company and stand head proud of your accomplishments.



    Go do your thing.



    P.S. Tell them to spent some of their billions in the bank to build a god damn factory in the US while you are at it.



    That way they will be contributing to the GDP of the US and not to COMMUNIST China.



    Preferably in Texas.



    Austin to be more exact.
  • Reply 103 of 118
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


    Apple, a US company, paying taxes on their profit and selling good to US citizens that also pay taxes



    Erm.. you mean paying taxes on the money that they couldn't funnel out of the USA?
  • Reply 104 of 118
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Galbi View Post


    All this controversy stemming from Foxconn would not have happened if Apple wasn't pushing its suppliers to cut costs at all cost (pun intended).



    From the articles I've read about the top OEM suppliers to Apple, they mention that they hardly make any profits fulfilling Apple extreme request to meet its cost estimates.



    Therefore, in order to keep the business account viable, the OEM's go to extreme measures to break a profit, disregarding work condition laws and standards while causing



    many deaths either by accidents or voluntary suicides.



    The culprit of the problem: Apple







    People who support Apple's current business practices should be ashamed of being their fans.



    If they really are Apple fans, they should raise these types of issues to get them fixed.



    Become a fan of a company who supports ethical business practices and not a company that is hell bent on turning a profit at all cost.



    You all have the power to change the outlook of a company and stand head proud of your accomplishments.



    Go do your thing.



    P.S. Tell them to spent some of their billions in the bank to build a god damn factory in the US while you are at it.



    That way they will be contributing to the GDP of the US and not to COMMUNIST China.



    Preferably in Texas.



    Austin to be more exact.



    You do have a penchant for getting every fact wrong. Impressive.
  • Reply 105 of 118
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by rednival View Post


    I actually agree with you. I don't really like the NYT or CNN. I don't think Congress has any business telling a country what wages they pay and I NEVER said that.



    Our congress DOES have the power to imposes taxes on companies that do business in China or to undo trade agreements if we feel they that country is engaging in unfair, unsafe, or immoral trade and labor.



    THAT is something I think our government should seriously consider. You can disagree, but I think that Chinese labor and economic policy is harming the world more than Iran's nuclear program is. But all world governments will continue to ignore this because most of them (including the US) depend on China to run their MASSIVE deficits.



    The real deal here is that China was admitted into the WTO (World Trade Organization) despite their currency manipulation. Remember, it isn't the US Dollar that is pegged to the RMB.
  • Reply 106 of 118
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by rednival View Post


    I see your point. I don't agree with the people that want to yank all work back to the US. I believe in letting wage rates take their natural course, and if some work comes back to the US, so be it.



    That fact remains that China hasn't allowed their wage rates to take their natural course. It takes public outcry for Foxconn workers to get a raise. When China controls its currency and keeps its wages low, it does harm to the Chinese people and harm to the other countries. I view it as economic terrorism. I am not saying we should attack them or threaten military action. My hope would be that IF there was pressure from US Companies or US Congress to curtail those unfair economic practices, China would stop them. Because if companies pull out of China, they will have a revolt on their hands. So if Chinese workers make more money through the natural progression of free and open enterprise, everyone wins in the end.



    Actually, Foxconn is a Taiwanese company and the people of Taiwan do not consider themselves Chinese... at all. They would be offended at such a suggestion.
  • Reply 107 of 118
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Slurpy View Post


    NYT estimates building in the US would add $65 expense to each phone.



    Yes, suggestions that the US can currently compete on a level playing field with China are coming from grossly uninformed individuals.
  • Reply 108 of 118
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post


    Yes, suggestions that the US can currently compete on a level playing field with China are coming from grossly uninformed individuals.



    ... but Apple can afford to do it and even if the other tech companies don't bring, or can't afford to bring, jobs back to America, Apple should do it on principal.



    </s>
  • Reply 109 of 118
    galbigalbi Posts: 968member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by stelligent View Post


    You do have a penchant for getting every fact wrong. Impressive.



    You have a penchant for not proving fact "wrong".



    Prove that it is wrong. I'll be waiting for a reply from you.



    I know you cant so here is proof that I was right



    http://9to5mac.com/2011/08/18/apple-...ly-50-percent/
  • Reply 110 of 118
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by island hermit View Post


    ... but Apple can afford to do it and even if the other tech companies don't bring, or can't afford to bring, jobs back to America, Apple should do it on principal.



    </s>



    Really? Apple have up to 100 billion in the bank, there is no way that is anywhere near enough to build the infrastructure needed, train the necessary engineers and management, relocate them to a suitable area, buy the machinery and robotics necessary and then deal with then import all the manufactured chips, glass, electronics and plastics or manufacture them somewhere close. Then pay for the considerably higher salaries.



    The NYT were not even close to being only ridiculously way out with their estimate.
  • Reply 111 of 118
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by island hermit View Post


    ... but Apple can afford to do it and even if the other tech companies don't bring, or can't afford to bring, jobs back to America, Apple should do it on principal.



    </s>



    Whilst I have a lot of sympathy for your position we must remember that Apple, MS, et al are Multi-National Enterprises. Although their head quarters may be US based they transcend national boundaries and ultimately their main commitment is to the shareholders who have invested in them.



    I doubt that Apple could develop the requisite infrastructure on their own but it could be done with government assistance and or through collaboration with other large firms. This could represent a post-Fordist move to Just In Time model. If it worked it would become "Silicon Vally 2".



    A main stumbling block would the existing tax laws, at the moment MNEs actively over or under inflate component prices in order to take advantage of tax differentials between nation states. All MNEs currently "hide" money abroad to avoid taxes (as is evidenced by Apple and other demanding tax breaks as an incentive to repatriate monies).



    The longer term global ramifications would be very interesting, namely a stronger US economy and relatively weaker Chinese one. I am not a "fan" of either government but I would much rather be a minion of the USA than China.
  • Reply 112 of 118
    solipsismxsolipsismx Posts: 19,566member
    Guys, he wrote </s> which means he's been sarcastic, though that's the colloquial term whereas satirical or ironic is actually more accurate. Welcome to the internet.
  • Reply 113 of 118
    gtrgtr Posts: 3,231member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by hungover View Post


    Whilst I have a lot of sympathy for your position we must remember that Apple, MS, et al are Multi-National Enterprises. Although their head quarters may be US based they transcend national boundaries and ultimately their main commitment is to the shareholders who have invested in them.



    I doubt that Apple could develop the requisite infrastructure on their own but it could be done with government assistance and or through collaboration with other large firms. This could represent a post-Fordist move to Just In Time model. If it worked it would become "Silicon Vally 2".



    A main stumbling block would the existing tax laws, at the moment MNEs actively over or under inflate component prices in order to take advantage of tax differentials between nation states. All MNEs currently "hide" money abroad to avoid taxes (as is evidenced by Apple and other demanding tax breaks as an incentive to repatriate monies).



    The longer term global ramifications would be very interesting, namely a stronger US economy and relatively weaker Chinese one. I am not a "fan" of either government but I would much rather be a minion of the USA than China.



    You did rather spectacularly miss that sarcastic tag, didn't you?
  • Reply 114 of 118
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by GTR View Post


    You did rather spectacularly miss that sarcastic tag, didn't you?



    yes I did



    I think I was focusing on the reply to his point, silly me
  • Reply 115 of 118
    xsuxsu Posts: 401member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by tonton View Post


    Plus free room and board, medical, counseling...



    And even outside of the factory, a bowl of noodles costs USD$0.25.



    And the other locals not working at Foxconn? Some of them subsist, working full time, on about $100. And they don't starve either.





    There's free room and board, medical and counseling in jail too.
  • Reply 116 of 118
    Pay is only one factor in employment. Working conditions, hours worked, pleasant co-workers, facility amenities, breaks, etc etc are all factors to consider.



    They could be paid $250 a WEEK and still be burned out by the boring, repetitive work with few breaks and no opportunity to decompress. After up to 16 hours a day of working, they go to the barracks and sleep. People need to rest. People are not robots.



    I once spoke with a co-worker who used to work in one of those post office mail processing centers and asked him why workers go postal. He stated that it was the boring repetitive work that never ends. The mail just keeps coming and coming and coming. People just mentally crack. Consider that in the US, there is a social welfare system. A person can count on unemployment and food stamps, if necessary. So no work does not necessarily mean starving. Over there, there no such welfare system. If one doesn't work, they could starve. That only adds to the stress of staying in a bad employment situation.



    The comments that state those workers can just quit if they don't like working there are just naive and lack an understanding of the bigger picture.



    If you think that $250 a MONTH is a lot to live on in China. Consider this. The Chinese economy is booming, that breeds inflation. The price of everything is rising fast.
  • Reply 117 of 118


    Why dose  Apple just pay the chiness workers the same wag as the US worker . we have a wag in Australia that give worker the money to live a good life, if you smart with your money . It dose not matter who you ,you have the right to live a good life. We need to look at injustes in the way the third  world people are payed .we may find that  all of us in the same place one day. If all the money go to one level of people it well become  worthless to those at the work with the nuts and bolts the real worker . IS  apple selling cheeper or are shardholders picking it up? sharpies2

  • Reply 118 of 118
    tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 43,399member


    Originally Posted by sharpies2 View Post

    Why dose  Apple just pay the chiness workers the same wag as the US worker .


     


    China ? United States.


     


    It's just that simple.

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